[Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's $18 half-slice (now with 50% fewer calories!)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's $18 half-slice (now with 50% fewer calories!)

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(Thread IKs: skooma512)

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

Mr Hootington posted:

Here is something fun ping-ponging it's way around the reactionary finance circles.
https://twitter.com/Geiger_Capital/status/1766109789266882959?t=NfgewRISDQwNInekNTngZA&s=19

I helped hire someone from Afghanistan. guy is smart as poo poo.

# ? Mar 12, 2024 06:45

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# ? May 23, 2024 04:25

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

time to buy the Boeing dip

# ? Mar 12, 2024 06:46

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

I'm sure everyone here knows this already but that chart is utter bullshit

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU02073413
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU02073395

The lines look about right for being indexed to 2007 though.

Is it misleading compared to plotting the same numbers on an absolute scale alongside the working-age populations in both categories, well duh.

_{haha I stole one of your jobs}

# ? Mar 12, 2024 06:47

OBAMNA PHONE: Aug 7, 2002

the dawn soap thing is a good trick

# ? Mar 12, 2024 07:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/scriptz4sale/status/1767340961074651577?t=xGJq4mh7o_0SxNwgdWqFzg&s=19

# ? Mar 12, 2024 07:17

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/scriptz4sale/status/1767340961074651577?t=xGJq4mh7o_0SxNwgdWqFzg&s=19

planes have way too many redundancies now. they can fly missing a few just fine.

# ? Mar 12, 2024 07:26

Blind Pineapple: Oct 27, 2010; For The Perfect Fruit 'n' Kaman

1 part gin
1 part pomegranate syrup
Fill with pineapple juice
Serve over crushed ice; College Slice

Death By The Blues posted:

this could be posted in multiple threads

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1767297209052090864

It's like Michael Clayton, but with airplanes instead of weed killer.

# ? Mar 12, 2024 07:26

Mola Yam: Jun 18, 2004; Kali Ma Shakti de!

so obviously covid smashed boeing stock, but does anyone know why it shot up hugely immediately after trump was elected, and stayed there until covid hit?

# ? Mar 12, 2024 07:29

swamp thong: Nov 6, 2023

Mola Yam posted:

so obviously covid smashed boeing stock, but does anyone know why it shot up hugely immediately after trump was elected, and stayed there until covid hit?

how else are you gonna get over the wall

# ? Mar 12, 2024 09:45

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

There's a guy on Youtube who eats old MREs and has eaten some poo poo out of hundred year old cans. Hs's probably going to die once he hits the early 2000s MREs.

he's admitted to being hospitalized from it before

it was from a 2015 ukranian one lol

# ? Mar 12, 2024 10:46

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Why did acquiring McDonnell Douglas gently caress Boeing up so badly? Didn�t they make the DC-10 and F/A-18?

# ? Mar 12, 2024 11:20

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Why did acquiring McDonnell Douglas gently caress Boeing up so badly? Didn�t they make the DC-10 and F/A-18?

The 1997 merger that paved the way for the Boeing 737 Max crisis

quote:

January 3, 2020

Late in the summer of 1997, two of the most critical players in global aviation became a single tremendous titan. Boeing, one of the US�s largest and most important companies, acquired its longtime plane manufacturer rival, McDonnell Douglas, in what was then the country�s tenth-largest merger. The resulting giant took Boeing�s name. More unexpectedly, it took its culture and strategy from McDonnell Douglas�even its commercial aviation department was struggling to retain customers.

...

In a clash of corporate cultures, where Boeing�s engineers and McDonnell Douglas�s bean-counters went head-to-head, the smaller company won out. The result was a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation. Only now, with the 737 indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects.

�The fatal fault line was the McDonnell Douglas takeover,� says Clive Irving, author of Jumbo: The Making of the Boeing 747. �Although Boeing was supposed to take over McDonnell Douglas, it ended up the other way around.�

A turbulent path to an uneasy union

Since the start of the jet age, Boeing had been less a business and more, as writer Jerry Useem put it in Fortune in 2000, �an association of engineers devoted to building amazing flying machines.� For a time, this served it well: An engineers� company made planes to make its engineers proud, whatever the cost. Employees enjoyed watertight contracts, thanks to an assertive, family-like union, and an attitude to aviation that put design and quality above all else. In the process, it produced some of the world�s greatest planes. The 707, for instance, was the first commercially successful jet; the 727, launched in 1963, allowed airlines to reach airports in the developing world or with shorter runways. The company�s philosophy, as one close observer described it to researcher Edward Greenberg, was �go-for-it-and-drat-the expenses�but not drat the quality.�

Throughout the 1960s and 1970s, the company, and the US aviation industry more generally, found itself in an especially sweet spot, Greenberg told Quartz. It was �the golden age,� he said, �because the airlines�since the government actually controlled where planes could go, (assigning) landing rights in a variety of places�didn�t have competition on those routes. Any costs that the engineers at Boeing wanted to add to the plane�because it was real cool engineering, or made the plane faster or safer�didn�t matter to the airlines and they could just pass on the costs of all of that in ticket prices.�

As engineers first, managers second, Boeing�s bosses answered to airlines: The plane that would become the 737, for example, was first ordered in 1964, after Lufthansa boss Gerhard Holtje found a need for a craft that could carry around 100 passengers on short, intercity European routes. By the plane�s third incarnation, in 1981, Boeing was onto a winner.

With the dawn of the 1980s, however, Boeing�s traditional way of doing things seemed increasingly out of touch. Deregulation under US presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan had changed the economics of the industry, Greenberg said. �The idea was that if you had more competition, it would drop prices for consumers. Suddenly, airlines are looking at this and saying, �Oh my God, we can�t pass on the cost by continuously raising ticket prices.� That put pressure back on Boeing, and on Airbus eventually, to become cost-conscious.�

As costs climbed, the company�s stock price slumped. Everything seemed to point towards one solution: a leaner operation with more digitalization and a new openness to outsourcing and partnering. At the same time, management was desperately searching for more diverse ways to remain financially aloft.

If, figuratively speaking, Boeing was suffering from engine trouble, McDonnell Douglas was in an out-and-out nosedive. The Missouri-based aerospace company was formed in 1967 after the merger of McDonnell Aircraft Corporation and Douglas Aircraft Company. By the 1990s, while its military wing remained robust, its commercial operations were waning. In 1996, Boeing took approximately 60% of the industry�s new commercial aircraft orders. Airbus, the European consortium, lingered far behind it, at 35%. McDonnell Douglas took the remaining 5%. Even its military operations had seen brighter days: The year before the merger, the Pentagon rejected its bid for new fighter jets, turning to Boeing and the Lockheed Martin Corporation instead. Boeing might have been struggling, but McDonnell Douglas seemed destined for failure.

In 1996, Boeing acquired Rockwell, a smaller aerospace and defense manufacturer, for around $3 billion. Now, it had its sights on McDonnell Douglas. These decisions, made by Boeing CEO Phil Condit, were made with a close eye on the company�s bottom line ahead of a hotly anticipated commercial-jet boom. An ambitious program of cost-cutting, outsourcing, and digitalization had already begun. For Boeing, acquiring McDonnell Douglas held many attractions. On the one hand, it would be a victory lap of sorts, to finally take over the remnants of its oldest rival. On another, it was a prime opportunity to pick up McDonnell Douglas� valuable military expertise and diversify its own offerings away from the turbulent commercial aircraft market, with its cycle of booms and busts.

...

Eventually, after months of deliberation, regulators approved the match in August of 1997, with four out of five Federal Trade Commission members ruling that it would not �substantially lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in either defense or commercial aircraft markets.�

Boeing bought the McDonnell Douglas for $14 billion. Shares of both enjoyed a slight bump. Boeing�s new acquisition allowed Condit to move forward on his other key project: diversifying Boeing�s revenue streams. With the lucrative government contracts it picked up with McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell, Boeing�s comparatively fledgling space and defense operations could flourish.

In the eyes of many Boeing employees, McDonnell Douglas executives seemed to do disproportionately well out of the merger: Many were given senior positions following the acquisition, with the company�s head, Harry Stonecipher initially appointed chief operating officer and holding more than twice the number of shares in the company as Condit, who remained CEO. Stonecipher and John McDonnell, formerly the chair of McDonnell Douglas� board, were now the two largest individual shareholders of the merged companies.

Stonecipher eventually became Boeing CEO in 2003, but was pushed out in 2005, after an internal investigation revealed that he was having a consensual, but extramarital relationship with a fellow Boeing executive.

In a 2007 interview, Ron Woodard, the former president of Boeing�s Commercial Airplane Group, bemoaned the changes the merger brought with it. �We thought that we�d kill McDonnell Douglas and we had it on the ropes,� he said. �I still believe that Harry outsmarted Phil and his gang bought Boeing with Boeing�s money. We were all just disgusted.� More than that, he added, the company had �paid way, way too much money [for McDonnell Douglas] and we�re still paying for it. We wrote off so many tens of billions of dollars for that whole mess.�

Inside the company, there were rumblings of dissatisfaction. A formerly cosy atmosphere, in which engineers ran the show and executives aged out of the company gracefully, was suddenly cut-throat. In 1998, the year after the merger, Stonecipher warned employees they needed to �quit behaving like a family and become more like a team. If you don�t perform, you don�t stay on the team.�

Everything seemed to be changing�the leadership, the culture, even the headquarters, with a move from Seattle to Chicago in 2001. The new location seems to have been especially disorienting for Boeing employees. �There was something about the locus of the company which was unique, that its whole history had almost been written on the same runway from the beginning, at Boeing Field� in Seattle, says Irving. Even the company�s ethos seemed to have changed, he says: �There was a kind of inherent ethic about how you went about designing and manufacturing and flying planes that carried passengers, as opposed to flying military planes.� For the former, you were serving individuals and airlines, interested primarily in the best way to fly; for the latter, you were playing a small part in the US� global military operations. Meanwhile, increasing shareholder value, once scarcely a consideration, grew to be more and more of a priority.

Many employees struggled to adjust, or resented what they saw as a changing of the guard, where investors took priority over passengers. �Many of the engineers happened to be the guys who pioneered the 707, and so took the company into the jet age and there was a kind of esprit de corps among them and an integrity of purpose among them,� says Irving. �And they had a collective sense of what the company was meant to do and what its responsibilities were.� Now, a passion for great planes was replaced with �a passion for affordability.�

Stonecipher seems to have agreed with this assessment. �When people say I changed the culture of Boeing, that was the intent, so it�s run like a business rather than a great engineering firm,� he told the Chicago Tribune in 2004. �It is a great engineering firm, but people invest in a company because they want to make money.�

# ? Mar 12, 2024 11:31

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

The public good of planes that don�t fall out of the sky

# ? Mar 12, 2024 11:50

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Malloc Voidstar posted:

At one point during the examination, the air-safety agency observed mechanics at Spirit using a hotel key card to check a door seal, according to a document that describes some of the findings. That action was “not identified/documented/called-out in the production order,” the document said.

In another instance, the F.A.A. saw Spirit mechanics apply liquid Dawn soap to a door seal “as lubricant in the fit-up process,” according to the document. The door seal was then cleaned with a wet cheesecloth, the document said, noting that instructions were “vague and unclear on what specifications/actions are to be followed or recorded by the mechanic.”

They use the dawn soap because their supplies budget was cut or the lubricant that was used is no longer made.

During the last four of years, we have had to find lubricants or epoxies of "similar spec" to replace poo poo that had been used for 60 years because the company who made the original products was bought out and closed or it was "no longer profitable".

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:01

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Way back when the 737 Max poo poo first started happening I posted a news investigation that had internal Boeing engineering documents that showed the 737 Max is a God damned death trap built to fail.

Plane frames are only rated for handling a certain amount of force, torque, pressure, etc. The Max is a very powerful engine that runs at the top limits of a 737 frame the entire flight. It was found by Boeing engineers that this causes structural cracks in the frame specifically where the Wings meet the fuselage and reduces the lifespan of the aircraft by decades.

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:10

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

it's cool that "wow Boeing's really gonna get it once these planes fall out of the sky" already came and went four years ago and literally nothing got better

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:16

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

I'm very curious to see Boeing's NADCAP and Orion audits. They had to have had major finds consistently and reading the story it is clear their certs would have been pulled.

Edit: then again auditors only ever look at paperwork and paperwork is frequently used to obfuscate or lie about what is happen on the production floor. Lol

Mr Hootington has issued a correction as of 12:39 on Mar 12, 2024

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:27

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

whacking a witness in a parking lot is pretty blatant

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:40

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010; Can't post for 6 hours!

euphronius posted:

whacking a witness in a parking lot is pretty blatant

the desperation to cling to the remnants of the power structures as they decay and collapse is only going to intensify
extrajudicial corporate executions are just the beginning

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:42

Mola Yam: Jun 18, 2004; Kali Ma Shakti de!

covid people be like "would we care if five 737s were crashing each week"?

well soon we get to find out

no

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:45

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010; Can't post for 6 hours!

Mola Yam posted:

covid people be like "would we care if five 737s were crashing each week"?

well soon we get to find out

no

Covid really did give the game away

The economy runs on blood and death and it will never be allowed to stop again

# ? Mar 12, 2024 12:51

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

euphronius posted:

whacking a witness in a parking lot is pretty blatant

Yeah, even with all the passive voice reporting it is crystal clear that Boeing killed ol dude.

# ? Mar 12, 2024 13:19

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://x.com/byHeatherLong/status/1767530322315390996?s=20

# ? Mar 12, 2024 13:42

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/byHeatherLong/status/1767530322315390996?s=20

Yep. Had my suspicions after yesterday's redfin rent reading.

Full numbers
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1767528615007113521?t=j_b4pDsln-KSCOzJbehsYA&s=19
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1767530702386421877?t=0nCs0eju2d8-_gNq1WdMgA&s=19

Markets still pricing June rate cuts.

Mr Hootington has issued a correction as of 13:48 on Mar 12, 2024

# ? Mar 12, 2024 13:46

Cup Runneth Over: Aug 8, 2009; She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate

Mr Hootington posted:

Here is something fun ping-ponging it's way around the reactionary finance circles.
https://twitter.com/Geiger_Capital/status/1766109789266882959?t=NfgewRISDQwNInekNTngZA&s=19

https://twitter.com/fallacyalarm/status/1766503388496240928
bless his heart, he's trying

# ? Mar 12, 2024 13:47

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

I exist, Greg. Could I lose my job to an illegal immigrant?

# ? Mar 12, 2024 13:48

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

https://twitter.com/LizAnnSonders/status/1767531568933830974?t=jbjgrBpQkfWLpVTwZ4_QNg&s=19
Some of this should head back down if gasoline goes back down, but rent is still a huge huge problem.
https://twitter.com/MenthorQpro/status/1767531888418152655?t=aSE9Z2X7YQec77JBwXls7g&s=19

# ? Mar 12, 2024 13:54

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

he's admitted to being hospitalized from it before

it was from a 2015 ukranian one lol

slava ukraini

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:00

net work error: Feb 26, 2011

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/byHeatherLong/status/1767530322315390996?s=20

Rent going to tank the economy lol

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:06

Grey Fox: Jan 5, 2004

Mr Hootington posted:

Plane frames are only rated for handling a certain amount of force, torque, pressure, etc. The Max is a very powerful engine that runs at the top limits of a 737 frame the entire flight. It was found by Boeing engineers that this causes structural cracks in the frame specifically where the Wings meet the fuselage and reduces the lifespan of the aircraft by decades.

*huffs spraypaint* hmm so you're saying Boeing can sell more planes faster???

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:08

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

someone check my math but .4 x 12 seems to be 4.8%

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:14

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Mola Yam posted:

so obviously covid smashed boeing stock, but does anyone know why it shot up hugely immediately after trump was elected, and stayed there until covid hit?

what year was the air force one trump deal

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:23

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

net work error posted:

Rent going to tank the economy lol

surely rents will go down once mortgage rates decrease

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:24

Beached Whale: Jun 27, 2009; The world as will and idea

https://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1767538350154539109

they're gonna be so pissed that their imaginary wage growth number is above their fake inflation number which means workers aren't being disciplined enough. we're not getting rate cuts until hourly workers are groveling for more gruel

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:25

Raccooon: Dec 5, 2009

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/byHeatherLong/status/1767530322315390996?s=20

Time to lower rates!

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:26

cool av: Mar 2, 2013

skooma512 posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3958552&perpage=40&pagenumber=10543#post538296202

This was posted in succzone and it's relevant to the thread.

What the� you used to be able to do that? That owns!

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:28

Cup Runneth Over: Aug 8, 2009; She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate

net work error posted:

Rent going to tank the economy lol

has anyone in modern history ever had a rent decrease

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:29

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

And then what happened to JFK

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:29

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

Beached Whale posted:

https://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1767538350154539109

they're gonna be so pissed that their imaginary wage growth number is above their fake inflation number which means workers aren't being disciplined enough. we're not getting rate cuts until hourly workers are groveling for more gruel

they cant even sort out their imaginary made up numbers

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:31

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# ? May 23, 2024 04:25

Raccooon: Dec 5, 2009

What happens if the Fed increases the rate again after the market has priced in a rate cut?

# ? Mar 12, 2024 14:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's $18 half-slice (now with 50% fewer calories!)

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