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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:secretly knows his movies are bad when he writes them, but he does it anyway because he just wants that extra green. I mean, I'd do that. I like money
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Mar 12, 2024 16:24
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RBA Starblade posted:I mean, I'd do that. I like money I sure do like that Batman, sir.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:26
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No Luck Needed posted:not killing is what makes them heroes. When you have all the power that superman does, not killing is what makes his actions to defeat villains heroic. In theory, not in practice, Batman wants to help reform his villains. By making them killers it takes away the hero aspect of super-heroes and just makes them super-beings. Why would the world celebrate superman as a hero if he was a killer? Actually, I'd argue that the fact that Superman has all the power in the world and chooses to help people is what makes him heroic. Batman is heroic because he took his pain and trauma and used it as motivation to protect people from violent criminals. This extreme "No killing ever and ever" thing is just a late (sometimes very late) addition to their characters due to a combination of flanderization, kirk drift and infantilization of comic books. "Why would the world celebrate Superman if he was a killer" I dunno man, maybe because he saved 8 billion lives? What a dumb question.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:30
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Crippling people for life, sending them to phantom prison dimensions that's said to be a fate worse than death, stealing someones speed so they remain an immobile statue but still mentally conscious and aware of what's going on, this is what heroes do! But killing? Sir, you just crossed a line! Superman should clearly just have gouged Zods eyes out and removed his limbs.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:32
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No Luck Needed posted:not killing is what makes them heroes. When you have all the power that superman does, not killing is what makes his actions to defeat villains heroic. In theory, not in practice, Batman wants to help reform his villains. By making them killers it takes away the hero aspect of super-heroes and just makes them super-beings. Why would the world celebrate superman as a hero if he was a killer? That's literally the plot of Batman V Superman, Lex Luthor trying to coerce Superman into killing and challenging the notion of being "all good."
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Mar 12, 2024 16:32
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ChatGPT write me a mean reply about the Zack Snyder DC movies, don't bother to check for factual accuracy
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Mar 12, 2024 16:35
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Also Batman killed in Batman Begins and no one ever really talks about that, I guess because he said "I'm not going to kill you but I'm not going to save you either" which is still killing a guy So I laughed a lot in dark knight when he kept talking about his "one rule" as if Begins was a fuzzy memory 
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Mar 12, 2024 16:43
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No Luck Needed posted:the joe rogan podcast is comedy gold, Zack Snyder says that batman and superman should kill and "put his stank" on those films. Wonder why they did so bad? BvS was a tremendous hit that earned just shy of a billion dollars.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:43
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Burton Batman is great as he gleefully murders goons. No doubt about him as he has machine guns on all his vehicles or has them drop bombs.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:45
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Miching Mallecho posted:Also Batman killed in Batman Begins and no one ever really talks about that, I guess because he said "I'm not going to kill you but I'm not going to save you either" which is still killing a guy This poo poo is way dumbed than not just killing the bad guys. As was Pattinson causing untold death and destruction in the Batmobile and the film just acting like nobody was hurt.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This is literally how a nine year old thinks. It's ok if they beat people down, send them to the hospital, smash their teeth out, take the law into their own hand...they didn't kill. This entire perspective is incredibly childish, it's what they were banking on when they invented these codes back in the 40s. Nine year olds have their action figures kill each other all the time when they're not gunning their friends down in Destiny 2 or whatever is hot now. "Heroes don't kill" is a marketer angle to get their product past parent watch groups. It's CCA poo poo. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 16:48
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Miching Mallecho posted:Also Batman killed in Batman Begins and no one ever really talks about that, I guess because he said "I'm not going to kill you but I'm not going to save you either" which is still killing a guy Batman doesn't think so
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Mar 12, 2024 16:54
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Even putting aside the extremely childish and naive idea that "heroes don't kill (but it's totally ok to cripple and torture!)", it's not even accurate. Batman was totally fine with goons dying as a result of his actions, like dodging or redirecting gunfire so a goon gets shot, or driving a car with explosives into a bunch of terrorists, or "accidentally" judo tossing someone out the window into a spiky fence, right up until the late 90's. He won't murder , but self-defense manslaughter? A-ok! And Superman very famously acted as judge, jury and executioner for Zod after his genocide of a pocket dimension earth, and he killed Doomsday. And you'd think the comic book dorks would know this, but apparently they've only watched the cartoons or something It's a stupid complaint on all conceivable levels.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:55
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PriorMarcus posted:This poo poo is way dumbed than not just killing the bad guys. As was Pattinson causing untold death and destruction in the Batmobile and the film just acting like nobody was hurt. i went to New York at the beginning of the year and I had either just saw some of Avengers on TV or else I saw some of it when we got back, but being in New York which is so densely packed, then seeing the Avengers just walking around on totally empty streets as if over a million people had just instantly evacuated or were calmly sheltering in place was insanely hilarious. That is to say another funny part of these "everyone is fine guys!" style of movie making is you just don't show that many people in one of the most densely populated cities in the world then the audience can be like "oh Loki unleashed a bunch of guys with plasma weapons and only like 20 people died" and not that this would have been a traumatic world altering event that would drastically change the entire face of society as we know it. MoS and BvS were the two movies that dared to go "actually if aliens showed up and Superman had to fight them it would be insanely catastrophic with a major death toll even if Superman did everything right" and people got real squeamish.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:58
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PriorMarcus posted:This poo poo is way dumbed than not just killing the bad guys. As was Pattinson causing untold death and destruction in the Batmobile and the film just acting like nobody was hurt. Honestly, I got pissed off when people praised the Batmobile chase in The Batman while ignoring the destruction on a highway but when Batman does the same thing on the docks in BvS, everyone lost their minds. And it's not like I didn't like chase in The Batman, I did but it was still funny how the same people praise thT but tsk tsk the same thing in the other movie.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:01
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Guy A. Person posted:i went to New York at the beginning of the year and I had either just saw some of Avengers on TV or else I saw some of it when we got back, but being in New York which is so densely packed, then seeing the Avengers just walking around on totally empty streets as if over a million people had just instantly evacuated or were calmly sheltering in place was insanely hilarious. Beavis didn't. It took place in the Abandoned Warehouse District
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Mar 12, 2024 17:04
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Snyder's Superman doesn't like that he killed that one guy, and Snyder's Batman is a villain who's gone to a very dark place. Seeing how the characters relate to those moral extremes is interesting.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:15
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RBA Starblade posted:Beavis didn't. It took place in the Abandoned Warehouse District I meant as far as it showed the fallout/aftermath of MoS. Even the first part of the Doomsday fight takes place in an area that's been abandoned/turned into a massive research park since it's where the Kryptonian ship crash landed, meanwhile a bunch of giant space whales got downed in NYC and according to Spider-Man: Homecoming Michael Keaton and his 5 man crew were just going to clean that all up.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:16
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if you take the characters' moral codes seriously then seeing them struggle against the limits of those codes and occasionally fail or stumble should be thrilling. (e: Man of Steel, especially, actually relies on the notion that Superman killing is scary and hosed up, although not necessarily wrong under the circumstances; if it were a completely idiotic sentiment that scene wouldn't have any power in the first place) but what's actually happening is the codes are just a convenient proxy for being mad that the characters aren't infallible. nobody really gives a poo poo whether Batman kills, in the specific sense of being morally shocked by death; what bothers people is the suggestion that, given Batman's advantages and virtues, he might ever be less than fully in control. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 17:20
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I think a lot of nerds just got really mad that batman acted like a villain (and didn't realize that was the loving point)
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Mar 12, 2024 17:26
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Miching Mallecho posted:Honestly, I got pissed off when people praised the Batmobile chase in The Batman while ignoring the destruction on a highway but when Batman does the same thing on the docks in BvS, everyone lost their minds. I can't think about the Batmobile BvS scene without hearing the little plink noise it makes when it bounces off Superman. So funny
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Mar 12, 2024 17:26
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McCloud posted:I think a lot of nerds just got really mad that batman acted like a villain (and didn't realize that was the loving point) Right, that's basically what I'm saying, it's just that "like a villain" here isn't really about doing things that are, by an external standard, morally wrong -- people have pointed out how monstrous Batman is as a concept so many times it's practically trite. The emotionally charged issue that makes "like a villain" so scandalous is that comic book villains are impotent, in some sense doomed to lose. e: BvS got people's knickers in a twist because it simultaneously features Superman expressing doubt and failing despite being right (this is where the "moral nihilism" bit comes in -- if you think that the universe rewards goodness with success, then a paragon of goodness doing his best and still failing is an affront) while also having Batman fail because his approach to heroism is flawed and self-destructive (ironically a plot that fits perfectly with that simplistic moral universe, and is only really controversial because its target is Batman.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 17:28
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McCloud posted:And Superman very famously acted as judge, jury and executioner for Zod after his genocide of a pocket dimension earth Yeah, and then the thing come back haunting him, and he resolves to never kill again.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Right, that's basically what I'm saying, it's just that "like a villain" here isn't really about doing things that are, by an external standard, morally wrong -- people have pointed out how monstrous Batman is as a concept so many times it's practically trite. The emotionally charged issue that makes "like a villain" so scandalous is that comic book villains are impotent, in some sense doomed to lose. both of your posts are dope, thank you
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Mar 12, 2024 17:36
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RBA Starblade posted:Beavis didn't. It took place in the Abandoned Warehouse District Abandoned warehouse island is an established part of the loooore!
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Mar 12, 2024 17:37
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YggdrasilTM posted:Yeah, and then the thing come back haunting him, and he resolves to never kill again. Uh huh. 
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Mar 12, 2024 17:38
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josh04 posted:Abandoned warehouse island is an established part of the loooore! They probably should have fired the city planner who suggested that
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Mar 12, 2024 17:42
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McCloud posted:Uh huh. Yeah. 
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Mar 12, 2024 17:42
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It's not really accurate to day Snydersupes "kills" in the present tense. He killed one guy, possibly two (the guy holding Lois hostage at the start of BVS is ambiguous) and several flashbacks establish that he's trained himself since childhood to not harm people. In the case of Batman, his brutality shows how his character has fallen from what he should be. Regardless, it's funny to imagine other movies being held to the standard of "does the hero kill anyone ever". Think of how many people Luke Skywalker has killed!
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Mar 12, 2024 17:44
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2house2fly posted:Think of how many people Luke Skywalker has killed! It's ok, no one's ever really gone
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Mar 12, 2024 17:46
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YggdrasilTM posted:Yeah. And he still killed doomsday after that, so I guess he's a liar. #NotmySuperman
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Mar 12, 2024 17:46
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Where'd he get the hood?
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Mar 12, 2024 17:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Right, that's basically what I'm saying, it's just that "like a villain" here isn't really about doing things that are, by an external standard, morally wrong -- people have pointed out how monstrous Batman is as a concept so many times it's practically trite. The emotionally charged issue that makes "like a villain" so scandalous is that comic book villains are impotent, in some sense doomed to lose. It also features a disillusioned, atheist Batman becoming born again thanks to the healing power of our lord and savior And ultimately, the guy who made Sucker Punch basically made his own version of Dark Knight Returns that flipped it on its head and made Batman a psychotic weirdo villain (as opposed to the psychotic weirdo hero that he is in Dark Knight Returns). Which is, y'know, hilarious, but it made some nerds really mad.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:47
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McCloud posted:And he still killed doomsday after that, so I guess he's a liar. It's ok, Doomsday actually didn't die.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:49
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RBA Starblade posted:It's ok, no one's ever really gone People keep saying this and it makes me angry! The line in the movie didn't refer to death but to evil! It meant nobody is beyond redemption! Grr!
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Mar 12, 2024 17:49
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2house2fly posted:People keep saying this and it makes me angry! The line in the movie didn't refer to death but to evil! It meant nobody is beyond redemption! Grr! Yeah but it's not as funny like that
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Mar 12, 2024 17:51
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YggdrasilTM posted:Yeah. Wow almost as if Superman isn’t tarnished as a character if he makes an extremely hard decision.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:00
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Equeen posted:Wow almost as if Superman isn’t tarnished as a character if he makes an extremely hard decision. I think that resorting on killing and being then tormented by guilt for it is a fine narrative arc for Superman (it can work only once though). I would be way more skeptical of a Superman that consistently kills in cold blood with little remorse.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:04
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YggdrasilTM posted:I think that resorting on killing and being then tormented by guilt for it is a fine narrative arc for Superman (it can work only once though). I would be way more skeptical of a Superman that consistently kills in cold blood with little remorse. I have literally never seen anyone fine with Superman killing Zod in MoS claim they want SuperPunisher. Like I truly can’t understand why “Superman should avoid killing unless it’s an equally powerful but evil godlike being” is so controversial.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:09
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YggdrasilTM posted:I think that resorting on killing and being then tormented by guilt for it is a fine narrative arc for Superman (it can work only once though). That's not making sense. Why can it only work once?
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Mar 12, 2024 18:13
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