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As someone who hasn't read the book or seen the first series I view Yabu less as in over his head but a survivor who's just in a tough spot. Knowing he survived the Japanese invasions of Korea in the late 16th century kind of tells me he's seen his fair share of poo poo and obviously has a bit of a cruel streak in him from what we've already seen but yeah...I guess he is in a bit over his head but its more just he can only think 1 step ahead not 2. What I'm saying is...I LOVE YABU!
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Mar 12, 2024 20:50
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Yabu: Torranaga's a loving rear end in a top hat, I'm gonna side with Ishido. Ishido: I am also a loving rear end in a top hat. Yabu: poo poo
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Mar 12, 2024 20:59
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Yabu is definitely in over his head but only because Toranaga is a god-level schemer and manipulator. I think the show does a good job showing us that Yabu's scheming is conducted well enough to escape notice by everyone except Toranaga, who obviously sees it and is confident enough in his own abilities to let Yabu know he sees it. "You are so lucky, always in the right place at the right time" was a real power flex. He's telling Yabu that he sees his ambition and even respects it enough to let him keep climbing, but to take it down a notch and balance it with patience and trust in Toranaga to come out on top.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:04
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:"You are so lucky, always in the right place at the right time" was a real power flex. He's telling Yabu that he sees his ambition and even respects it enough to let him keep climbing, but to take it down a notch and balance it with patience and trust in Toranaga to come out on top. Exactly. He sees through him but he knows he can be used in ways that are beneficial for him. He knows he's putting him in a really lovely position. Its fun!
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Mar 12, 2024 21:08
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I went back to watch Episode 4 again at the end. The gore at the very end from all the cannons is mind-boggling good. I haven't seen that attention to detail since early Game of Thrones.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:10
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Yabu is definitely in over his head but only because Toranaga is a god-level schemer and manipulator. I think the show does a good job showing us that Yabu's scheming is conducted well enough to escape notice by everyone except Toranaga, who obviously sees it and is confident enough in his own abilities to let Yabu know he sees it. Nagakado also seems to have him pegged dead to rights too, hence the whole "I'm just gonna turn Ishido's men to pasta sauce with Anjin-san's cannons, gently caress you, Yabu" gambit that ends the episode.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:12
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nine-gear crow posted:Nagakado also seems to have him pegged dead to rights too, hence the whole "I'm just gonna turn Ishido's men to pasta sauce with Anjin-san's cannons, gently caress you, Yabu" gambit that ends the episode. To be fair, at the moment it seems like a dumb play and he seems to be manipulated, based on how the show paints it, but earlier he is talking about ambitious men and allies and it makes sense. He somehow was able to move cannons presumably using Yabu's men, since it's his army, and Yabu had no idea what was happening. So, maybe Nagakado isn't just some dumb kid. I don't know if Toranaga would have done that, and really pushed the war, but maybe he did in the background. Removing Toranaga almost completely from the episode was a smart choice from a storytelling perspective, along with the various misdirects. I know the book is good, but I like that I haven't read it so everything is new and unknown to me.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:38
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Phy posted:As a fan of one Jas. Aubrey, Captain, RN I was pretty happy to see Blackthorne work out "Oh, right, accurate naval gunnery!" I have no idea if cannon circa 1600 would have been that accurate out to that range but I'm willing to forgive it. Based on dialogue in the episode I feel like the Portugese deliberately gave the Japanese older, shittier cannons/mortars. After all, with all the shady dealings they'd been up to in Japan's overseas holdings, why would they risk giving them weapons on parity with their own?
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Mar 12, 2024 22:57
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Bloody Pom posted:Based on dialogue in the episode I feel like the Portugese deliberately gave the Japanese older, shittier cannons/mortars. After all, with all the shady dealings they'd been up to in Japan's overseas holdings, why would they risk giving them weapons on parity with their own? I think the Japanese might not have really had the infrastructure to cast decent cannons and the Portugese weren't going to be helpful about that.
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Mar 12, 2024 23:10
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Party that, partly Japan is very resource poor when it comes to iron and what little they have is very poor quality. It's why Japanese carpentry uses carefully cut joins and tension instead of nails and why there was this mystique of the steel for a katana being folded 500+ times. It needed to be folded that many times so it wouldn't immediately shatter. They do have a poo poo ton of coal though, which was what helped their economic development in the late 19th into the 20th century with growth in steam power.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:18
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Book spoilers, but one thing we'll come to learn about Yabushige's nephew is he is much smarter and more clever than his uncle, who as noted, is fairly clever and capable himself.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:30
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So hey, all those samurai who shaved a big patch on the top of their head? Please tell me this was because of a decree from some historical shogun who was going bald and really hated seeing all the young samurai with their thick black hair.
Phenotype fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 01:43
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chonmage
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Mar 13, 2024 01:45
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You don’t have to like it, but it’s what peak performance was thought to look like at the time
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Mar 13, 2024 01:48
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Phenotype posted:So hey, all those samurai who shaved a big patch on the top of their head? Please tell me this was because of a decree from some historical shogun who was going bald and really hated seeing all the young samurai with their thick black hair. It's just a different hairstyle (it's called a chonmage) but the origin has a couple theories. One is that it helps your helmet stay on your head better, and young men tend to be doing more of the fighting than the old generals. The other is that aristocrats wore specific caps and it also fit better with the forelock shaved. But there's also an phenomenon around this time going on about appearances. You probably noticed that most of the older men sport beards and full heads of hair. In the preceding generation, this is the look most associated with the warrior class, but in the early 1600s (honestly a little after the time period the show is set) that same look comes to be associated with the barbarism and savagery of the age of warring states and you start to see younger men sporting less facial hair. Eventually being clean shaven is the look the comes to be associated with being classy and presentable, and it becomes an entrenched cultural norm. It's why most Japanese men are clean shaven still today. Personally I have to shave my beard every time before I go to Japan or my (older) relatives make comments about how I would look so much better without it. Younger people tend to not care as much. Edit: I realize this became more about beards than shaved heads, but there are some hair facts for ya. Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 01:52
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Panzeh posted:I think the Japanese might not have really had the infrastructure to cast decent cannons and the Portugese weren't going to be helpful about that. This actually was what the deal historically with Japan was at the time. The samurai were incredibly quick to adopt firearms, and by the time this story takes place, there were numerous places throughout the country (Tanegashima, Kunitomo, and Sakai in particular) churning out matchlocks that, according to many accounts, matched or even exceeded what was being produced in Europe in both quantity and quality; there's likely some exaggeration in there, but there's still no denying that the Japanese very quickly adapted what production infrastructure they had to churning out large amounts of firearms, and that they were also making changes and improvements to the design that the Portuguese initially brought over. However, they never really could get a handle on making cannons. Those were exceedingly rare, and what few were extant were almost all purchased from European traders, initially the Portuguese, and then later the Dutch; I believe there were a few smaller cannons that were produced in-country, but they tended to be not particularly effective or reliable.
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Mar 13, 2024 02:10
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My head canon is always going to be that the style was started by a cabal of aging, balding lords who got jealous of their hunkiest samurai and made everyone shave the top of their heads so that no one had any more hair than they did. Why was Blackthorne's journal written in Portuguese? Wouldn't have he written in English (and then it would have been an impenetrable enigma to Mariko)
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Mar 13, 2024 02:11
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I'm assuming from the ending that Yabu was very much not in on the plan to wipe out regent's messengers and this is his nephew making some self-interested move that isn't clear yet.
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Mar 13, 2024 02:27
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I should have maybe not been eating during the last scene. At least it wasn't ragù bolognese which is what Ishidu's men became
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Mar 13, 2024 02:41
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A Sneaker Broker posted:I went back to watch Episode 4 again at the end. The gore at the very end from all the cannons is mind-boggling good. I haven't seen that attention to detail since early Game of Thrones.  Every detail ,from the costuming to the acting to the sets, is absolutely nuts. This show will be rewatcheable for decades to come
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Mar 13, 2024 02:44
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Sun Tzu actually said you should stand in your enemy's artillery training ground, it's a very good idea.
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Mar 13, 2024 02:44
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Arglebargle III posted:Sun Tzu actually said you should stand in your enemy's artillery training ground, it's a very good idea. Isn't waiting for your enemy to make a mistake an actual part of the Art of War? It's one of those books I own but have never read (including the edition edited by Clavell.) I may be looking too much into the scene, but the grounds already looked pretty muddy and cratered at that spot; as if some target practice had been done beforehand. Eh, then people would have heard it. Nevermind.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:00
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Pretty sure in the book they just killed them all with swords and arrows and stuff. But that was more stealthy and the cannons is a more overt way to signal to everyone (meaning the viewer) that the war is officially on. In the book Blackthorne is actually teaching them musket tactics too. Wasn't sure about the switch to cannons for TV but it worked out.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:03
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Clearly the production also has history nerds working for it who came to similar conclusions on cannons vs muskets in the hands of a sailor
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Mar 13, 2024 03:18
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So in the first episode, did the baby have to commit sudoku too?
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Mar 13, 2024 03:26
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Yup. They even had a baby-sized urn ready to go. The only reason Fuji didn't have to as well was because her grandpa is a mensch and pleaded with Toranaga using the "She's the only member of my family that's not a fuckup" argument.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:31
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Pretty sure in the book they just killed them all with swords and arrows and stuff. But that was more stealthy and the cannons is a more overt way to signal to everyone (meaning the viewer) that the war is officially on. In the book blackthorne is helping train musket troops, some of which are under Omi's command, they do a big training demonstration for the messengers, firing blanks, then Omi has his troops load live ammo and gun down most of the messengers, a few wounded ones commit sudoku, and their leader, Nebara Jozen, gets disembowled and his hamstrings cut and left to die slowly
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Mar 13, 2024 03:31
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Hughmoris posted:So in the first episode, did the baby have to commit sudoku too?
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Mar 13, 2024 03:34
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hailthefish posted:In the book blackthorne is helping train musket troops, some of which are under Omi's command, they do a big training demonstration for the messengers, firing blanks, then Omi has his troops load live ammo and gun down most of the messengers, a few wounded ones commit sudoku, and their leader, Nebara Jozen, gets disembowled and his hamstrings cut and left to die slowly You're right I'm thinking of the few messengers that Ishidos men sent that they track down later, which is a part of the plot that doesn't seem to exist in the TV version because of their need to simplify/condense things
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Mar 13, 2024 03:35
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So obviously the end of episode 4 is a huge provocation and everything, but why is everyone suddenly like "Oh now it's gonna be war". Toranaga snuck out of Osaka, killing a bunch of guards in the process, expressly against the orders of the regents. After that, wasn't war inevitable? I mean barring something like Toranaga's abject surrender or possibly suicide.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:46
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I think it was just a reaction to the huge provocation and having just seen people turned into loving jelly, jesus christ
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Mar 13, 2024 03:52
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milk dribbling gently caress smear
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Mar 13, 2024 03:53
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Hughmoris posted:So in the first episode, did the baby have to commit sudoku too? It's puzzling, why force a child to do such a thing.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:58
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Collateral posted:It's puzzling, why force a child to do such a thing. If a baby can be sent to the corner store to get groceries they can do sudoku
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Mar 13, 2024 03:59
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The baby could do an easy sudoku. The dad had to do one that required an x-wing
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Mar 13, 2024 04:06
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No Mods No Masters posted:The baby could do an easy sudoku. The dad had to do one that required an x-wing Blow up the Death Star?
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Mar 13, 2024 04:10
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Meanwhile, during all of this, and most of feudal Japanese history, the Imperial family is just chilling in Kyoto, writing poetry or whatever.Collateral posted:It's puzzling I can't tell if this was accidental or clever. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 04:18
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Great ep, I especially liked the scene of Fuji and Blackthorne exchanging gifts  Help me remember a detail from the book - does Blackthorne ever, ahem, pillow with a Japanese woman beside Mariko? Couldn't tell if that was supposed to be her sneaking into his room towards the end there. I would have guessed that would happen in the next episode or two based on when I remember it happening in the book. Have decided that he's either doing Kelsey Grammar doing a bad English accent, or an Englishman doing a bad Kelsey Grammar impression. It's growing on me either way.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:18
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C-Euro posted:Great ep, I especially liked the scene of Fuji and Blackthorne exchanging gifts Having seen a couple of interviews of Cosmo Jarvis talking normally in his regular British accent, I've come to the conclusion that the voice he's doing in the show is mean to emphasize just how loving alien a British dude would sound to Japanese people at the time, and in that regard I think it works a lot. Because while Blacktorne's the POV character, the show is also primarily about everyone else reacting to just what the unholy gently caress Blackthorne even is.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:23
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counterfeitsaint posted:So obviously the end of episode 4 is a huge provocation and everything, but why is everyone suddenly like "Oh now it's gonna be war". Toranaga snuck out of Osaka, killing a bunch of guards in the process, expressly against the orders of the regents. After that, wasn't war inevitable? I mean barring something like Toranaga's abject surrender or possibly suicide. I think up until this point it's just been foot soldiers that have been killed in the line of duty, so no biggie. Diplomacy and politics were still on the table. Now that Ishido's right hand man is a sloppy Joe, there's no more feigning polite ignorance in order to avoid outright war.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:25
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