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hooman posted:Can you be specific about what caused this to happen and what actions will be taken to prevent this happening again? Because this seems like a huge oversight in moderation efforts, especially in the context of people being dinged for strawmen that they weren't making. If all modding was overzealous that would be understandable, but there is a very clear disconnect here that I think it would be helpful to understand the cause of, and how it will be addressed. It looks like the Skex one hadn't been acted on yet because it was only reported two days ago, and the small butter one wasn't acted on because he was already on probation at the time.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:24
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Majorian posted:This is not something that happens with any frequency. There are a lot of posters who are regulars in both DnD and C-SPAM. That's a good thing - it should be encouraged, not discouraged. Yes, there are threads in C-SPAM where occasionally a particularly egregious DnD post gets laughed at, but C-SPAM regulars, for the most part, don't actually post in DnD to provoke goofy quotes. Those rare instances where this does happen usually end up with the cspammer probated or banned. I didn't mean to imply that "syq mining" happened frequently. It didn't happen frequently. I do think there would have been more "syq mining" than there was, if Cinci hadn't been as vigilant about spotting and punishing the rare offenders.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:25
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Koos Group posted:It looks like the Skex one hadn't been acted on yet because it was only reported two days ago, and the small butter one wasn't acted on because he was already on probation at the time. Thanks for the response. That makes sense. I suggest that all actionable posts be hit with a probation marker because that shows that rule breaking posts are being actioned rather than giving the incorrect impression that they were considered not to be rule breaking. It's also interesting that a post like that took 11 days to be reported. That seems to indicate that people posting in D&D are not being sufficiently proactive in reporting bad posts more generally. I have been trying to be more active in hitting report on posts that are rule breaking. hooman fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 04:47
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Victar posted:[...] I still maintain that Cinci's biases fostered an environment antithetical to the stated purpose of D&D, and that the lesson to be learned from their "case study" is that 1) Cinci's bias stemmed from their experience in D&D as a member thereof, 2) their experience and bias directly led to unfair treatment and not enforcing rules, 3) this led to the posting I described and find revolting as well as the more general isolation/insulation, and finally 4) that the positive reactions to Cinci's moderation were an acknowledgement of similar bias which also served as Cinci's motivation for their consistent participation. My conclusion remains that attempting to recreate a similar situation requires a moderator to have a similarly strong bias to motivate them, and eventually will end up with another mod with weird spreadsheets. Other things need to change in D&D to affect positive change and Cinci's tenure should not be used as a platform to continue from.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:50
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Giggs posted:We have different memories because we have different perspectives. For instance you state that "pro-russian" posters were dogpiled but I don't remember a single pro-russian poster in that thread. I remember plenty of posters claiming that posters and subforums were pro-russia through weak and typically fallacious rhetoric Weak and fallacious rhetoric like suggesting that a poster who kept getting probed for trolling the thread with "Kyiv is encircled and about to fall" and "What about James Garfield fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 05:05
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hooman posted:It's also interesting that a post like that took 11 days to be reported. I don’t know any details about that specific post and am not really commenting on that specific post. But I think you should realize that threads get read by people who don’t post in them, after the conversations occur. Sometimes a long time later, even years. I didn’t realize USCE was a thread people did that with, but it is. My assumption is that most people actively posting in it have it bookmarked and just read new posts. But that’s not everybody. Other people might read it a week behind, a month behind, whatever and those folks might report stuff too.
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Mar 13, 2024 05:06
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James Garfield posted:Weak and fallacious rhetoric like suggesting that a poster who kept getting probed for trolling the thread with "Kyiv is encircled and about to fall" and "What about Yeah there was plenty of pro-russian posting, the people doing it didn't even deny it, it's weird to try to pretend it never happened. Hell if you took half the Pro-Russian posts and replaced "Ukraine should just surrender and give into Russias demands it would save more lives" or "Ukraine asked for this because they considered joining Nato" and replaced Ukraine with Gaza and Russia with Israel I'm sure people would be lining up to call those posts "pro-Israel"
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Mar 13, 2024 08:16
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James Garfield posted:Weak and fallacious rhetoric like suggesting that a poster who kept getting probed for trolling the thread with "Kyiv is encircled and about to fall" and "What about The "Flatten" post earned that poster a pretty swift permaban. (in C-SPAM) Majorian fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 09:18
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Majorian posted:The "Flatten" post earned that poster a pretty swift permaban. (in C-SPAM) That wouldn't change the fact that they were a pro Russian poster in the thread under discussion
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Mar 13, 2024 15:56
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There is still dogpiling and digging into years-old post histories in the War in Ukraine thread; there was an ugly example with someone whose name begins with K and Cpt_Obvious a few weeks ago. IIRC, folks were egging K on.
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Mar 13, 2024 16:04
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Papercut posted:That wouldn't change the fact that they were a pro Russian poster in the thread under discussion They also felt safe posting that there instead of in the GBS or DnD threads which suggests to me a moderation job well done in them.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:47
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mawarannahr posted:There is still dogpiling and digging into years-old post histories in the War in Ukraine thread; there was an ugly example with someone whose name begins with K and Cpt_Obvious a few weeks ago. IIRC, folks were egging K on. I have no comment on the rest of what you say, but I do have something to say about dogpiling. As far as I can tell, dogpiling itself isn't against the D&D rules as listed, and IMO it shouldn't be. As long as dogpilers follow the rules, including the overall rule of "each post should say something interesting, informative, or funny", then it doesn't mean that anything about how D&D works is wrong or bad, it just means that an opinion is unpopular and needs to be defended or conceded. A dogpile post that's nothing but "me too" or a flame is worthless, against D&D rules, and deserves a probe. But if the dogpile post logically examines and/or rebuts part or all of an argument, then it's a good post. A dogpile post that accuses someone of supporting genocide had better justify such an extreme accusation. But if the dogpile post does make an accusation and successfully justify it, then it's a good post. A dogpile post that has something interesting, informative, or funny to say is a good post. Determining whether something is interesting, informative, or funny can be subjective and difficult. That's why being a mod, or even an IK, is hard.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:23
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Koos Group posted:He has categorically refused to hold any position of power on SA. A large portion of his rap sheet involves backseat modding. You have expressed being in favor of ramping punishments. Ergo, forcing buttons on him may be the best ramping punishment you could do.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:28
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Victar posted:I have no comment on the rest of what you say, but I do have something to say about dogpiling. All true, a good example of this is that once in a blue moon actual Trump Voter that shows up and everyone piles in to question their sanity. It's not organized or anything it's just everyone wants a piece, which is a hard thing to moderate I guess.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:36
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socialsecurity posted:All true, a good example of this is that once in a blue moon actual Trump Voter that shows up and everyone piles in to question their sanity. It's not organized or anything it's just everyone wants a piece, which is a hard thing to moderate I guess. This is basically the history of the Libertarians thread. Mostly it's a quiet "Check out this dumbass Libertarian poo poo that happened" but true believers would periodically show up to make a stand and get chewed up by the mob, not because of a conspiracy or rule-breaking but because they made bad arguments that were easy to pick apart with interesting and informative posts. Yeah, they eventually stopped showing up.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:46
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Killer robot posted:This is basically the history of the Libertarians thread. Mostly it's a quiet "Check out this dumbass Libertarian poo poo that happened" but true believers would periodically show up to make a stand and get chewed up by the mob, not because of a conspiracy or rule-breaking but because they made bad arguments that were easy to pick apart with interesting and informative posts. Ha there was a time D&D had a huge libertarian population, it was uh gross.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:47
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Killer robot posted:This is basically the history of the Libertarians thread. Mostly it's a quiet "Check out this dumbass Libertarian poo poo that happened" but true believers would periodically show up to make a stand and get chewed up by the mob, not because of a conspiracy or rule-breaking but because they made bad arguments that were easy to pick apart with interesting and informative posts. That effect probably improved the Ukraine threads overall, especially after the mandated cross forum truce. If you actually want people of differing opinions to post in the same threads you have to really tamp down on the aggro posting of all stripes in threads. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 18:49
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James Garfield posted:Weak and fallacious rhetoric like suggesting that a poster who kept getting probed for trolling the thread with "Kyiv is encircled and about to fall" and "What about To engage your distraction however, I'll say that I am Ukrainian, and if somebody brings up the extremely real and historically relevant concern about far-right ultra nationalists in Ukraine, I know, because I possess a lifelong perspective on Ukraine that almost zero D&D posters have, that it does not make one "pro-russia", and that posters who demand it be so are in fact using weak, fallacious rhetoric. It was frequently extremely distressing reading D&D posts (not to mention GBS, and there's decent crossover) about the war and recent history or politics and I had to just stop after what was far too long. If the moderation was staffed by perfect angels I don't think that would be completely different, (posters tend to get their information from media external to this site obviously) but it might have been better. My concerns about D&D are only a part of my larger concerns about the site as a whole, wherein insular subgroups are just becoming more strange, extreme, and reactionary but this is yet again a thread for D&D feedback so I thought I'd take a shot at expressing myself. I felt that the result of the SAD discussion over the various war threads was barely adequate and that it did not appreciably address the issue I just mentioned, and that's why I'm bothering with these posts.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:59
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Cinci certainly went too far a lot but it was at least different to have a super engaged D&D mod vs one that checks in every few weeks to do a probe wave, I think we can agree as with all things politics "the truth is in the middle"
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Mar 13, 2024 19:08
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Victar posted:As far as I can tell, dogpiling itself isn't against the D&D rules as listed, and IMO it shouldn't be. As long as dogpilers follow the rules, including the overall rule of "each post should say something interesting, informative, or funny", then it doesn't mean that anything about how D&D works is wrong or bad, it just means that an opinion is unpopular and needs to be defended or conceded. Not only that, per Koos’ earlier comment, refusing to participate in the dogpile is now punishable. Even better news for those who find a real spectrum of ideas in their Debate forum “gross”. I’d love to hear some additional policy details: does every member of the dogpile need to be responded to, or just a certain percentage or ratio? How much time do you have to respond before being probed? Do ignored users count? Etc
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Mar 13, 2024 19:20
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Not only that, per Koos’ earlier comment, refusing to participate in the dogpile is now punishable. Even better news for those who find a real spectrum of ideas in their Debate forum “gross”. Yes I find the spectrum of ideas that libertarianism includes very gross, unsure why this would be an issue for you. Also no one has ever or will ever be probed for "not participating in a dogpile" that's just silly.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:26
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As a quick point I think the clearly delineated rules are a good thing at least from the perspective of helping posters clearly define and give context for when they report a post; so even if on one hand koos you decide that mods should have wider latitude for when to use their buttons, the written rules would still be good to have as more clearly and transparent guidelines for posters in general and to help posters when they communicate with mods.Majorian posted:The "Flatten" post earned that poster a pretty swift permaban. (in C-SPAM) So putting aside that it wasn't initially reported by anyone who posts in CSPAM, as a follow up to my earlier post I'm going to single you out here as you've specifically have been engaging in a pretty obvious pattern of sealioning. The thing your responding to here in this very post is a pretty good example of the kind of nitpicking you've been doing that seems designed to be a drag on discussion. In particular posts like this, which are just insincere: Majorian posted:I don’t have to look for reasons to dislike him. Majorian posted:It's not just possible, it's pretty much a certainty. But that's the thing: if Team Biden knows the media is running with the "Biden's brain is mush" narrative, they should probably try to make sure he's not playing into it. You went on to make fifteen posts about Biden's age/mental faculties where your stated intentions don't add up or align with the insistence on "discussing" the point, in particular the way you yourself never seem to have an actual position on the issue, only "people are saying" or "well people believe it because" and framing it as just a point of discussion as an "election issue", this seems to me like a strategy where by getting people to respond to you, you're creating further opportunities to be further contrarian; not because you're legitimately interested in what people are saying. And then posts like this where c'mon: Majorian posted:I'm actually asking you to back up your accusation that people are bringing up Biden's age and health because they've either been duped by the right or are trolling the thread, and not because they are actually concerned about Biden's age and health. Which you basically dropped shortly after I pm'd you, so the possibility however slim exists you legitimately didn't know and needed my PM to know. Who can say. But given those fifteen posts between march 7th and March 8th its impossible to read this at face value: Majorian posted:This is all I'm saying. People had already responded to you with this point, or made this point repeatedly in the past. You went at it again: Majorian posted:It wasn't intended to "make any strides" in that direction. You attributed his gaffes to his stutter, and I showed you Biden personally denying that this is the case. Either Biden is telling the truth (or what he erroneously believes to be the truth), or he is lying for some reason. Where again, you're just nitpicking. Instead of putting any effort at all into reading context into what you're responding to, where you often seem to read posts in an overly literal fashion; where you're placing an undue burden of effort into forcing people to explain what the reasonable position is; which would be fine if this was genuine and if you absolutely had no prior position or understanding of the issue, but you clearly do. And then there's this whole sequence of posts by you to Maine Paineframe: Majorian posted:Who believes this, MP? Please be specific, because I haven't seen a single person anywhere suggest this. Where this is just textbook sealioning. Bonus points for obvious concern trolling here: Majorian posted:I dismissed them because they didn't indicate that anyone actually believes that a ceasefire and an end to the genocide are synonymous. They were bad examples, because they do not say what MP claims they say. Then there's posts by you where you're "just asking questions": Majorian posted:In what way have Biden's policies/initiatives/expansions of presidential powers been "radical," exactly? Can you be specific? Majorian posted:Of course it is, but MPF said "Biden is the most progressive president in our parents' lifetimes," and I'm pretty sure MPF is around my age. I'm also pretty sure most (not all) of us have parents who were born before 1969. Which is more nitpicking, that doesn't respond to the substance of the point being made. Majorian posted:Let's dig a little deeper into that, though: which parts of the Democratic coalition would they piss off by having a clearly-stated, more humane policy towards immigration and the border? Would they piss off those parts so much that they wouldn't vote for them in the upcoming election? No one responded to this, so I was tempted to give it a pass; but on closer inspection it has many of the same issues as your other posts; you nitpick a broad point someone makes without engaging with its substance, in this case the source you brought to backup the nitpick ultimately sustains the broader more charitable point being made (Americans in general are highly concerned with immigration), the point about the "Democratic coalition" is ambiguous as to whether it means only people who self-identify as Democrats or people who tend to vote for Democrats. And I'll be upfront and clear that the issue here isn't not being probed for this, the problem is the lack of pushback from mods interested in taking an active effort at curating discussion. There's no mod presence who can read all of your posts and ask you to put in more effort and to knock it off. Similarly, USCE regular "B B" regularly is engaging in bad faith concern trolling, particularly using posts like this for context, it isn't possible to take it at face value that they're just "concerned" or interested in discussing the ramifications of the poll numbers, because they repeatedly post the same content over and over and don't engage with the thread: B B posted:This 6-3 ruling is gonna be amazing. At least Joe and the Democrats will be able to console themselves with the fact that they resisted the urge to politicize politicize the court maybe forever in a way that's not healthy, though. Why I don't think this B B poster likes Democrats or hopes they win at all! And yes, they're even mocked posters in D&D in CSPAM while actively participating in D&D: quote:I have already seen this actually. It hasn't even been a half hour. :laffo Now I can't know for sure what's in B B's heart of hearts, and in a vacuum the fact that some of Biden's polls are bad is important information to discuss, we are in an election year; but between the fact that it's already been well discussed, that they might not be predictive this far out, and not super meaningful, constantly bringing them up, again and again, without any new context or information that brings up an interesting point of discussion, seems clear to me that at some point a threshold was reached and B B should've been asked to knock it off. But again, it isn't that he should've been probed every time, there should've been a mod present in the thread, who could remember the discussion the last time B B made a similar post and be like, "Hey, do you have any new information to bring up with this?" so the rest of the thread knows that the situation is being handled. To repeat, the issue is that most of the time probes are too little, too late, and only are serving as a ill fitting bandaid to a deeper problem. In which the burden of policing the thread has fallen onto regulars who just as often are the ones who get punished for it, and are often punished harder for it. mawarannahr posted:There is still dogpiling and digging into years-old post histories in the War in Ukraine thread; there was an ugly example with someone whose name begins with K and Cpt_Obvious a few weeks ago. IIRC, folks were egging K on. This is obviously false with just a casual glance at the thread in question. For one Cpt_Obvious was obviously engaging in bad faith, I don't understand why Kalit gets a day for this: Kalit posted:Kind of ironic, considering you stated it's an impossible "war" (i.e. attempted genocide) for Ukraine to "win" (i.e. survive) early on: While this: Cpt_Obvious posted:This war has been deemed "unsustainable" for Russia since it began. While this post by Cpt_Obvious later only got 12 hours: Cpt_Obvious posted:While technically the term "slush fund" can include any account used for miscellaneous expenditures, it usually implies corrupt use of the money. I certainly don't agree with more of my tax dollars being sent abroad, there doesn't seem to be any illegitimate use of the funds by the Biden administration. Afaik the only place the money set aside for Ukraine goes is either to Ukraine itself or arms dealers like boeing and raytheon. As for Dog Piling, I do think it'd be nice if it happened less often, because it can be annoying, and intimidating, to respond to several different people making slightly different arguments. Good moderation would be helpful here to encourage just at most, 1-2 people responding to 1 person. Especially when often if someone says something controversial or unpopular half the posts are just some variation of "lol, lmao". And that's lovely even if there's circumstances where that's deserved. If its a lovely position then they'll inevitably when faced with a good argument make a bad argument and get adequate and proper feedback; and if others try to make the same argument, with good moderation, legitimate argument can be given proper room to breath. So as far as I can tell, you've not made a single post in the thread, perhaps you've regularly and religiously lurked in it, but when you're claiming you've never seen any "pro-Russia" posters in the thread (despite the very obvious examples already provided), but plenty of people "demonizing" such posters using "fallacious" rhetoric; well to be blunt, this seems dubious to me, but if you're right, there should be a massive preponderance of examples of this occurring, can you provide a small handful of examples of people who you felt like were just, innocently providing their opinion and concerns, who you felt were unjustly demonized for it, along with those posts engaging in that, where the person who was demonized was also unfairly probed by the mods? There should be a huge selection to pick from. I just spent like four hours going back and picking out posts to bring up for my post, so this isn't an unreasonable thing for me to ask of you I feel.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:28
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Plus, of course, that how rickety or not-rickety he comes off as will significantly impact how well he does in the election.
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Raenir Salazar posted:Lots of stuff Yes patterns like this are quite obvious and intentional, the problem is when you don't have enough mods that are active in the thread/community to notice it, it's a very tuned form of trolling that has been working because people who engage with them end up getting probed.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:33
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Raenir Salazar posted:Similarly, USCE regular "B B" regularly is engaging in bad faith concern trolling, particularly using posts like this for context, it isn't possible to take it at face value that they're just "concerned" or interested in discussing the ramifications of the poll numbers, because they repeatedly post the same content over and over and don't engage with the thread: leaving aside that the quoted post is extraordinarily normal and common as a sentiment among registered Dems that I know, is the stance you are taking that one must like the Democratic Party to sincerely want to discuss it? personally, I despise the Democratic party, and yet I feel a great and sincere anxiety about its electoral failures and its weak response to the gop's blatant corruption, because they have ramifications for the people I love, which I frequently express in criticism of the party and its approaches. I think that is very obviously a form of good faith. Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 19:34
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socialsecurity posted:Yes patterns like this are quite obvious and intentional, the problem is when you don't have enough mods that are active in the thread/community to notice it, it's a very tuned form of trolling that has been working because people who engage with them end up getting probed. To put this differently, the current moderation practices train and incentivize trolls to use these methods to sabotage discussion.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:38
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Also, honestly, the reason the politoons thread works is because most of the politoons posted are ones pretty much everyone here disagrees with so they're not turning on one another.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:51
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Victar posted:You're not the only one asking why the I/P thread could be called "deranged" or in need of martial law, but if the past 1-2 weeks of I/P posts don't convince you then I don't know what would. The derails tend to come from new posters who kramer into the thread to deny something that was already confirmed, or repeat debunked propaganda. You don't need martial law to manage that, just the mods should be more cautious of new posters who post hasbara talking points. Discendo Vox posted:To put this differently, the current moderation practices train and incentivize trolls to use these methods to sabotage discussion. I mentioned this earlier in the thread. The current moderation does seem to encourage these types of trolls to derail as you said, but also to catch genuine posters with probes who aren't as well versed in the game of skirting the rules. Marenghi fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 19:56
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Last presidential election I appreciated that there were essentially 3 threads in D&D that discussed the election. The polling thread, the "general election thread", and the US politics thread. Each thread had a different variety of posters and covered different topics.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:59
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Marenghi posted:The derails tend to come from new posters who kramer into the thread to deny something that was already confirmed, or repeat debunked propaganda. You don't need martial law to manage that, just the mods should be more cautious of new posters who post hasbara talking points. Yeah at the very least might as well alt check those people right off the bat.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:00
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probe anyone saying kramering sealions
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Mar 13, 2024 20:12
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Discendo Vox posted:To put this differently, the current moderation practices train and incentivize trolls to use these methods to sabotage discussion. I'm going to need you to explain this "sabotage" notation you keep using. What purpose would this "sabotage" serve? Who would benefit? What nefarious agenda is beholden here? I'm inclined to think that people who use "sabotage" as a byword for "disagreement with consensus" are engaging in a cultish practice, an attempt to perform a mass delusion. You yourself admit to pushing agendas, but if anyone else does that, they're "sabotaging." I just find it interesting that your attitude is welcome and sustained in D&D while people who would even criticize D&D are not allowed here. I find your posting far more toxic than quite a few of the forumbanned participants here. And I don't think you're alone in this method, for the record, lest it seem like an overly pointed version of grudgeposting. Its your particular verbage that I think does a great job revealing the usually more covert devices of the "cadre" I mentioned earlier. Cadre like this: socialsecurity posted:Hell if you took half the Pro-Russian posts and replaced "Ukraine should just surrender and give into Russias demands it would save more lives" or "Ukraine asked for this because they considered joining Nato" and replaced Ukraine with Gaza and Russia with Israel I'm sure people would be lining up to call those posts "pro-Israel" There's no "evidence" or "facts" supporting this viewpoint. It's not "novel" or "thought-provoking." I can find the same thing on reddit and the MSNBC.com comment section. Weirdly escapes scrutiny.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:13
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As you can already see I am responding to and agreeing wuth extensively documented examples from Raenir Salazar. Also we can all still see y'all's rapsheets. The issue is not disagreement with consensus. The issue is making statements that are designed to sabotage discussion by shifting burdens, rendering falsification impossible, and repeatedly re-raising rebutted claims, actions that violate the rules and are not enforced on.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 20:17
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Probably Magic posted:I'm going to need you to explain this "sabotage" notation you keep using. What purpose would this "sabotage" serve? Who would benefit? What nefarious agenda is beholden here? It comes across like a form of trolling. They argue from a position which comes across as bad faith, but keep within the rules of the forum, until they get accused of bad faith and the accuser is probed. Or they cause a derail and get hit by a probe themselves, but take down other posters with them.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:18
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Discendo Vox posted:As you can already see I am responding to and agreeing wuth extensively documented examples from Raenir Salazar. Also we can all still see y'all's rapsheets. The issue is not disagreement with consensus. The issue making statements that are designed to sabotage discussion by shifting burdens, rendering falsification impossible, and repeatedly re-raising rebutted claims, actions that violate the rules and are not enforced on. This does not address the very loaded term of "sabotage" at all, which implies you're embarking on a great project. You're not. You're posting in a politics forum. Posting with the same boring views I could get from the White House Press Secretary, no less. God forbid people make fun of you for pretending your cheerleading is not in fact serious philosopher-king discourse. Truly, this will derail.... something. Unclear as to what. Whatever. This poo poo's depressing, and I already offered up the solution on my end in my very first post, time to pursue that matter further.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:22
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so it's sabotage because people seem to get weirdly fixated on certain points, stay quiet until they can jump in to comment on what seems to you like pointless minutia, and they continue to engage in this behavior despite probation? that's not sabotage that is literally just posting lmao e: i think if you want to post in DND you should have to read one of the wow lore threads from a year the game was really popular so you have a baseline for what normal deranged internet conversation looks like. a lot of this reads like people astonished to learn people have strong, consistent feelings that cause them to jump into conversations in ways which may seem derailing or pointless. If you hate that, argue against repetitive posting, don't assume bad faith. People do that poo poo in good faith constantly, on much more pointless topics than politics. Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 20:22
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stop using yall unless you're from the south, probe that as well
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Mar 13, 2024 20:23
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As far back as I can recall pretty much every heated argument in D&D ended up with someone probated (or just banned if you go back far enough pre-probation) so I'm not sure there is a solution to the problem because internet arguments almost always escalate toward eventually breaching debate rules, unless someone disengages. Most people (including myself!) have a hard time disengaging and giving someone else the last word.World Famous W posted:stop using yall unless you're from the south, probe that as well listen all yall it's a sabotage
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Mar 13, 2024 20:25
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Probably Magic posted:This does not address the very loaded term of "sabotage" at all, which implies you're embarking on a great project. You're not. You're posting in a politics forum. Posting with the same boring views I could get from the White House Press Secretary, no less. God forbid people make fun of you for pretending your cheerleading is not in fact serious philosopher-king discourse. Truly, this will derail.... something. Unclear as to what. It's sabotage because it is specifically deleterious to a factual, educational, falsifiable discussion, basic good faith discussion, not "philosopher king discourse." Even if we weren't able to identify patterns in those posts themselves as Raenir identified and as I've already articulated, we can still see your rapsheets. We know you are doing this on purpose.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:26
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Dreylad posted:As far back as I can recall pretty much every heated argument in D&D ended up with someone probated (or just banned if you go back far enough pre-probation) so I'm not sure there is a solution to the problem because internet arguments almost always escalate toward eventually breaching debate rules, unless someone disengages. Most people (including myself!) have a hard time disengaging and giving someone else the last word. Yeah and that's not the worst thing, probes aren't that big of a deal as long as they aren't like months long. Like I got probed yesterday or the day before for continuing a derail and I deserved it and probing me help get the thread back on track.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:28
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i admit it, im posting my opinions on purpose
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Mar 13, 2024 20:28
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