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Branch Nvidian posted:I think it's perfectly reasonable for Nvidia to have halo products like the 4090, I just wish that them having a halo product didn't also make them feel justified in jacking up the prices of the lower end cards too. Yeah, that's why it'd require collusion, because they are competing. But I think AMD and Intel could sell the top gaming-focused chips, like the current 7800X3D or 14700K or such, for twice what they currently do, and most would still buy it. Which is why it's weird that they don't collude to do so, lol.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:05
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whenever anyone thinks they spent a lot on a video card and half a dozen people post within an hour to validate them do what you wanna, but buying gpus doesn't need to be a hugbox
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Mar 13, 2024 17:08
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I got my 4070 ti free from work
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Mar 13, 2024 17:15
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Branch Nvidian posted:Regarding Intel and AMD, I think prices are what they are in that market because they actually compete with one another. Remember during the Bulldozer era AMD wasn't even a consideration for anyone, and Intel was jacking up their pricing because they could. Between Sandy Bridge and Coffee Lake when Construction cores were still coming off the line, the top Intel consumer desktop CPU always had the same price: $300-350. If you apply the same “top of the stack” mindset that lots of people seem stuck on for GPUs, the price increase in CPUs is roughly the same as GPUs. The top end consumer desktop part now is roughly 2x the price of what it was in 2018. Of course I think that’s a dumb way to measure things for lots of reasons, but it’s a common refrain when people talk about GPU pricing. I agree that the more competitive market in CPUs is driving innovation and keeping prices in check, as a general statement.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:38
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Canned Sunshine posted:Yeah, exactly. It's two different pools of consumers, and I think we're already there. On the one hand you've got the people who buy $1k+ halo products. I think that group is going to be incredibly price insensitive, mostly because it's a bunch of people who either 1) need that kind of grunt for business/professional purposes and can justify the expense that way or 2) are well to do nerds who can afford to splurge and justify it as ultimately being cheap entertainment on a per hour basis. On the other hand you've got the down-tier folks who either can't spend that kind of money, are fine playing on 1440 or even 1080, or who just don't think the expense is worthwhile. Basically the people who the 60 and 70 series are for. Those people have been in a weird spot ever since covid. Someone with a 2070 could get away with skipping the 30 series and crazy price gouging of the covid/bitcoin years, but ponying up for a 40 series became kind of necessary if they weren't going to get out of the hobby. But I really think that come the 50 series there is going to be a lot more reluctance to spend $350 on an entry-tier card or $650 on a mid-tier one. I don't have any real predictions, just a lot of anecdata from friends who are either down-shifting their graphical needs, moving to console, or just getting out of gaming entirely.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:42
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shrike82 posted:i don't think people should feel guilty about getting a pricey GPU if they're gaming on it - gaming's still an affordable hobby in the grand scheme of things after finally buying a new car i completely realized how true this is. god if i want to do /anything/ to it it's going to make a 4090 look cheap as hell
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Mar 13, 2024 17:47
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i like the concept of consoles, but having just bought a ps5 slim and hearing of an upcoming ps5 pro later this year kinda kills my excitement over consoles, especially since the performance and quality targets continue to be completely arbitrary. add to this that sony aren't the best at discounting their $70 games compared to something like steam i'm still getting my money's worth in some way, but i don't think there's a great magical alternative to turn to, unfortunately then there's something like steam deck where you can find communities of people who try to find games that run well on their own specific devices which will hopefully drive pc devs to optimize their games more for the not-4090 crowd
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Mar 13, 2024 17:49
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Shipon posted:after finally buying a new car i completely realized how true this is. god if i want to do /anything/ to it it's going to make a 4090 look cheap as hell Car hobbyists are in an ultra luxury/wealth tier well above gaming hobbyists though.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:49
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Canned Sunshine posted:Car hobbyists are in an ultra luxury/wealth tier well above gaming hobbyists though. I think there are two versions of car hobbyists though. There are the ones you're talking about, doing custom mods to high end cars; and then there are the shitbox car guys who just keep buying each other's 3/4 working beaters and fixing them up a bit before they all buy each other's cars again. Both are serious money sinks, but one costs considerably more money than the other. I know someone in the Volkswagen shitbox community that has owned the same Jetta like four times.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:56
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Canned Sunshine posted:Mainly I want to see nvidia keep jacking up prices to see at what point people actually would think twice about upgrading or would wait.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:57
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:If the increasing time between new process nodes (at least for TSMC) leads to longer generation times for GPUs, the extra expense may be worth it. It all depends on what your target is. This is the thing that I think gets lost in a lot of these discussions. Consoles provide a pretty hard hardware floor that AAA releases have to be minimally functional on, and if you're pushing 1440 or 1080 you can get away with a LOT less graphical horsepower. It's the change-over in console generations that would worry me. Buying a 4090 about a third of the way through a current console gen? Yeah, that's going to stay relevant a loving loooong time. But I could see something like a 5090 or 6090 being bought right before the next console gen drops having significantly shorter legs, comparatively, just because that minimum hardware floor rises soon after purchase.
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Mar 13, 2024 21:50
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Cyrano4747 posted:It all depends on what your target is. This is the thing that I think gets lost in a lot of these discussions. There's no way a 5090 gets outpaced by the PS6 era's console gpus.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:16
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I really hope 5000 series goes back to sensible power usage. Smaller and more efficient would be great. Apple is making laptops that use 50W max and can play Resident evil, I don’t want to have a freakin 400W component to play games in Ultra settings
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Mar 13, 2024 22:22
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Branch Nvidian posted:I think there are two versions of car hobbyists though. There are the ones you're talking about, doing custom mods to high end cars; and then there are the shitbox car guys who just keep buying each other's 3/4 working beaters and fixing them up a bit before they all buy each other's cars again. Both are serious money sinks, but one costs considerably more money than the other.  My nice car is a 20 year old Miata that cost less than some PCs ITT. But yeah of course even a single tank of gas is a decent fraction of a GPU cost, though personally the experiences just feel more worth it than having somewhat shinier reflections or whatever
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Mar 13, 2024 22:26
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PirateBob posted:There's no way a 5090 gets outpaced by the PS6 era's console gpus. Part of what is going to make the 4090 such a long lived card is software being anchored by the PS5 for a good chunk of its life span.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:26
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:I really hope 5000 series goes back to sensible power usage. Smaller and more efficient would be great. Apple is making laptops that use 50W max and can play Resident evil, I don’t want to have a freakin 400W component to play games in Ultra settings This is not going to happen. I suspect each tier’s power draw will remain the same since they didn’t really move much between the 30 and 40 series (ie, 220 watt 5070, 320 watt 5080, 450 watt 5090)
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Mar 13, 2024 22:29
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Nfcknblvbl posted:A bunch of us will still buy the 5090 at $3k. It'll sell out instantly, be out of stock for well over a year, and will be sold for $400 over MSRP indefinitely. People forget that that 5090 buyers can sell their used 4090 for similiar high price then as well. Depends on the 5080 pricetag and VRAM obviously as well. The ASUS Strix 4090 for example still is listed at 2200 Euro even 1,5 years after release in the ASUS shop. If a 5090 is launched for insane 3000 Euro, I have no problems selling my 4090 Strix for 1500 Euro (e: in Germany) . And this would be already a 50% funding for a 5090 at 3000 Euro. It would be a Deja Vu: Everyond one told us the 3090 would be sunk cost and drop to 700 as soon as Ada launches. How wrong they and we were. I sold my 3090 Strix for 1200 Euro after 2 years of user because the 4090 (and 4080) were so expensive. The 24 GB VRAM are a selling point as well obviously. Used markets for the 4090 will adapt and sell as high as possible depending on a - maybe - even more expensive 5090. Mr.PayDay fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 22:32
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Cyrano4747 posted:You misunderstand. I'm not saying it gets outpaced, I'm saying that if you guy the flagship on the cusp of a new console release you have a higher minimum hardware target for more of your card's lifespan. I understand the point. I just don't think the higher floor coming sooner after release will matter very much when the 5090 will be at least 2x more powerful than whatever they put in the next gen consoles (guesstimate of course).
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Mar 13, 2024 22:32
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PirateBob posted:I understand the point. I just don't think the higher floor coming sooner after release will matter very much when the 5090 will be at least 2x more powerful than whatever they put in the next gen consoles (guesstimate of course). Do we have an ETA for the PlayStation 6? It could be an RDNA 5 architecture and Zen 6 maybe in late 2026?
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Mar 13, 2024 22:44
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Mr.PayDay posted:Do we have an ETA for the PlayStation 6? Regardless of the architecture they'll still be targeting a mass market price point at something like a third (or a quarter if Nvidia keeps ramping the price) of the sticker price for an XX90, so there will be compromises made on the performance front.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:53
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kliras posted:it's the same thing with keyboards and chairs; you spend so much time using them that it's probably your best $/usage purchase Seriously people, buy a quality chair. Your body will thank you for literally decades. Steelcase gang in the house!
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Mar 13, 2024 22:57
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Smithwick posted:Seriously people, buy a quality chair. Your body will thank you for literally decades. Steelcase gang in the house! Embody Bros. Seriously though I didn’t realize just how bad my Secretlab Titan Evo Gaming Chair was until I got this Embody. Branch Nvidian fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 23:37
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Cyrano4747 posted:It all depends on what your target is. This is the thing that I think gets lost in a lot of these discussions. Conversely I feel like it's a huge mistake to buy a marked up 4090 so late in the generation. 5090 (conceivably) will play ps6 tier games well enough and so be relevant for a good 6-7 years.
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Mar 13, 2024 23:40
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Mr.PayDay posted:Do we have an ETA for the PlayStation 6? Jesus are we really at that point in be console generation already? It feels like the PS5 and XBSX still barely have any games.
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Mar 13, 2024 23:42
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https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072692/sony-ps5-forecast-cut-q3-2023-earnings
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Mar 13, 2024 23:54
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It's been about three and a half years since the PS5 launched, and the PS4's launch was seven years before the PS5's. I guess it's technically the latter half of the console's lifecycle if another seven year span is what they're aiming for, but it sounds patently ridiculous for Sony to treat it like that.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:09
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2026 is way too soon. The last generation lasted for eight years, and this one might last even longer. Nobody in this climate is going to buy a new console that's just an incremental upgrade over the old one, so they need to wait until they can produce an affordable box that is leaps and bounds better than the PS5, and that's not happening until 2028 at minimum. edit: i guess the last gen was 7 years, but i still think this will be an 8-year gen at minimum, with a mid-gen refresh. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 00:13
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Kazinsal posted:It's been about three and a half years since the PS5 launched, and the PS4's launch was seven years before the PS5's. I guess it's technically the latter half of the console's lifecycle if another seven year span is what they're aiming for, but it sounds patently ridiculous for Sony to treat it like that. Why?
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Mar 14, 2024 00:14
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Games are also too expensive on the dev side. Sony’s president recently made waves by calling out PlayStation’s low profit margins. I don’t think they’re in a hurry to get the PS6 out.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:21
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Because the console launched in the pandemic and that made it hard to find for over a year and also delayed a ton of games. It definitely doesn't feel like the PS5 has been out for 3.5 years.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:22
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:2026 is way too soon. The last generation lasted for eight years, and this one might last even longer. Nobody in this climate is going to buy a new console that's just an incremental upgrade over the old one, so they need to wait until they can produce an affordable box that is leaps and bounds better than the PS5, and that's not happening until 2028 at minimum. The PS4 Pro really did feel like a substantial improvement over the base PS4 when I upgraded mine, but I find it hard to believe any refresh in this generation is going to result in me feeling the need to replace my existing PS5. The PS4 and Xbone were based on pretty poo poo-tier laptop chips iirc (please correct me if I'm wrong), so the boost made sense last time. This time it's custom mid-range PC silicon from 2019-2020.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:25
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the last gen systems were based on poo poo-tier laptop chips but the mid-cycle refresh didn't do much to change that, they kept the same architecture and just bumped up the clocks a little bit nearly all of the gains were from making the GPU bigger
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Mar 14, 2024 00:30
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MagusDraco posted:Because the console launched in the pandemic and that made it hard to find for over a year and also delayed a ton of games. It definitely doesn't feel like the PS5 has been out for 3.5 years. I don't think this will stop them. The real question is going to be if they hobble the new gen with requiring support for the old gen for the first 2 years, like they did this time.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:31
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Branch Nvidian posted:The PS4 Pro really did feel like a substantial improvement over the base PS4 when I upgraded mine, but I find it hard to believe any refresh in this generation is going to result in me feeling the need to replace my existing PS5. The PS4 and Xbone were based on pretty poo poo-tier laptop chips iirc (please correct me if I'm wrong), so the boost made sense last time. This time it's custom mid-range PC silicon from 2019-2020. Yeah, I mean, in 2026, if Sony were to keep the same pricing then they'd probably be looking at a console that's only twice as powerful as the PS5. That's how slow the price-to-performance improvements have gotten. They need to wait longer to have a decent gen-on-gen improvement while also probably raising the price of the base model. Cyrano4747 posted:I don't think this will stop them. They didn't require support for the PS4 this gen. That just happened naturally as a result of pandemic shortages and delays.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:36
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MagusDraco posted:Because the console launched in the pandemic and that made it hard to find for over a year and also delayed a ton of games. It definitely doesn't feel like the PS5 has been out for 3.5 years. Yeah, at present the PS5 has the following actual released exclusive games (as in don't also have PS4 versions), some of which will be on PC but aren't yet: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth (timed exclusive) Eternights Marvel's Spider-Man 2 Final Fantasy XVI (timed exclusive) Horizon Forbidden West: Burning Shores Astro's Playroom Bramble: The Mountain King Demon's Souls Remake Destruction AllStars Horizon Call of the Mountain VR Pacific Drive Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart Returnal Season: A Letter to the Future The Dark Pictures: Switchback VR Tchia Upcoming exclusives that may eventually get a PC and/or Xbox release: Rise of the Ronin Stellar Blade Silent Hill 2 Remake Death Stranding 2 Marvel's Wolverine Knights of the Old Republic Remake Concord Marathon Fairgam$ Sword of the Sea Phantom Blade 0 So in 3.5 years we've gotten 16 games that are ONLY available on the PS5, at least as of right now, though we know the Final Fantasy games will be on PC eventually and there's a good chance Spider-Man 2 and Horizon Forbidden West will be on PC also at some point. And then there are 11 announced games, of which I'd expect Silent Hill 2 Remake, Death Stranding 2, and Knights of the Old Republic to likely get eventual PC releases. Fantastic generation so far, so many console selling exclusives.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:37
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Branch Nvidian posted:and there's a good chance Spider-Man 2 and Horizon Forbidden West will be on PC also at some point  https://store.steampowered.com/app/2420110/Horizon_Forbidden_West_Complete_Edition/
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Mar 14, 2024 00:40
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Cyrano4747 posted:I don't think this will stop them. That might just be how things work from now on, because new tech is so expensive. As in you both want to maximize your audience, and getting the most out of new hardware is prohibitively expensive out of the gate.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:41
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Branch Nvidian posted:
You're not wrong, but now compare it to the number of XBox-only (as in no PC release) exclusives. I'll be the first one to get cynical as hell about the PS's library, but if you're in the market for a ~$500 gaming machine it's hard to find a compelling argument for XBox without leaning on game pass. edit: for the record, as someone who owns both a gaming PC and a PS I'm loving thrilled that Microsoft doesn't give a gently caress about XBox exclusives and puts everything on PC.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:41
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lmfao, I hadn't heard it was actually being released on PC. I had seen that some people were real mad about Ghost of Tsushima getting a PC release though.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:42
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Branch Nvidian posted:lmfao, I hadn't heard it was actually being released on PC. I had seen that some people were real mad about Ghost of Tsushima getting a PC release though. Those people are idiots.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:42
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