Ciaphas posted:

can we just gas this stupid loving thread by now, honestly

Herbotron posted:

the Dark Souls of video game genre definition arguments

bobthenameless posted:

the fundamental axiom of roguelikes is "it uses the numpad or hjklyubn for character movement" imo

Turin Turambar posted:

/wakes up
/clicks on thread
A better definition would be something like 'step-based action rpg', where "step" refers to the simultaneous turn system where you do atomic single actions (ie. move one tile, attack one time) and the world advances too a single action. So I would call it 'SARPG', something different to 'SRPG' (Strategic RPG) and 'ARPG' (Action RPG). So I'm defining the genre as having three things
-the step-based system
-It's focused on combat and killing, hence 'action'
-it has rpg progression, and usual rpg elements like loot, character classes and/or abilities/perks, npc traders, etc

Rappaport posted:

It's been probably over a decade since I last ascended in Nethack, but I began my ~*Roguelike Journey*~ with it, and what FTL captures the most out of that gaming experience are the highs and the lows that come with the RNG and the permadeath aspects of choices.

Rappaport posted:

Corollary: a lot of situations are survivable but can blow major chunks. You've based your run on a boarding crew and either get hosed by the enemy or make a mistake and your punchy boys die? That has almost the exact same feels as when you blow up your BoH in Nethack. A lot of the time it's still possible to dig up from that hole, but there is a definite hot minute there when you want to commit violence.

quote:

Lost in Prayer is a traditional grid-based roguelike in which everything that kills you becomes playable. As a disembodied soul, possess the inhabitants of the afterlife to conquer either Heaven or Hell as you seek the final deliverance you were promised.

Are you a sinner, or are you virtuous? As a lost soul stuck in Purgatory, prove yourself in a gauntlet against Hell’s minions or defy the divine as you raid Heaven so you may earn your final deliverance.

Lost in Prayer is a grid based, turn based roguelike true to its roots. You can expect all the qualities that make the genre so compelling, such as mind twisting tactical decisions, expansive build options, high replay value thanks to procedural generations and hoards of content.

Key Features
Procedurally generated levels ensures no two runs are the same
Raid either Hell of Heaven to keep things fresh at every run
Permadeath keeps you on your toes at all time
Unlock anything that kills you as a playable character
Unique skill trees that offer a variety of playstyles
Push, pull and manipulate your enemies to cause chain reactions

An Intuitive Traditional Roguelike
A conscious effort was made to make Lost in Prayer less daunting to play for newcomers to this genre, without diluting the vast possibilities that they are known to offer. So whether or not you know what we mean by the “Berlin interpretation of Roguelike”, you should be able to enjoy the game.

Two Paths to Victory
Heaven and Hell both have their own inhabitants, environments, traps and quirks. If you’re tired of dying in one route, pick the other and your early experience will be radically different from your previous run.

Death Opens New Doors
Anything that kills you become playable for your subsequent runs. Will you be tempted to die on purpose to unlock the creature you face? Dying is more bittersweet when the boss that took you down becomes the instrument of your revenge.

Cunning Tactics Will Be Rewarded
Pull an enemy into the projectile of its allies, push that pesky demon into a pit, slam that pretentious angel into a wall. The odds are stacked against you, so whether it is part of your environment or a combination of your own abilities, seize any opportunities to gain the upper hand.

Rappaport posted:

cock hero flux posted:

I will argue that metaprogression, as commonly implemented, is absolutely not a legitimate part of the genre or a natural evolution of it. It is directly contrary to the design philosophy that established the genre. This is not the same as declaring that Halo isn't an FPS because there's vehicles; this is like declaring that Grand Theft Auto isn't a racing game because the point of the game isn't racing.

cock hero flux posted:

As a baseline, a roguelike in the original sense is a turn-based RPG. A roguelike is differentiated from the broader category of turn-based RPGs by two defining features: permadeath and randomly generated layout. Now, if you examine the design philosophy that leads to this, you can figure out, in at least a nebulous sense, what the "point" of a roguelike is. ie: why did roguelikes break the standard conventions of the RPG genre in this way consistently to the point where they became a recognizable sub-genre? An RPG is expected to have a save/load system that allows players to restart after loss from places other than the beginning, and it is expected to have a fixed layout that does not change even if the game is completely restarted. What were the developers of the various defining roguelikes hoping to accomplish by doing the opposite of this: making RPGs where you start over from nothing every time you lose, and in which the layout is randomly generated each time? Well, the straightforward answer is that they were trying to make each run a unique and new challenge, to make sure that the player was forced to approach them from a blank slate rather than carrying anything over from prior runs, and to prevent the pitfall often encountered in other RPGs where players are able to retry specific sections over and over again until they luck their way through. So, the goal was that each run would be a fresh challenge that players would have to overcome through their own skill at the game rather than by brute force retrying or by being able to overwhelm it with power acquired previously. With that in mind, consider the implication of metaprogression as typically implemented. This is not speaking to stuff like TOME's metaprogression of unlocking starting options. This is about metaprogression where the player's starting power level increases based on things that happen in previous runs. What does the addition of that do to the original design philosophy? In my estimation, it fatally undermines by breaking the layer separation between runs. Because dying makes you more powerful, brute forcing your way through the game by simply puffing your power level up to the point where you can complete it becomes a viable, and in some cases the only viable, strategy for winning. This is not an evolution of the original concept; it is a total reversal of it.

ZCKaiser posted:

So, Backpack Battles hit its full release, and it's a pretty enjoyable little experience. The new characters have fun gimmicks.

SKULL.GIF posted:

Do you mean Backpack Hero or is there another roguelite with backpack mechanics?

Tequila Bob posted:

All this talk about genre definitions prompted me to re-read the Berlin Interpretation, and:

It is WAY WORSE than I remember. It's next to useless, and has probably harmed the genre almost as much as Rogue Legacy.

The lowights, for me are:

3. Non-modal. This is why more classic RLs have you "quaff" potions or "evoke" wands or whatever, and why newer ones forget this stupid requirement and just show you an easy inventory menu.

5. Hack-n-slash. They buried a turd here. Read it to the end, especially this part: "there are no monster/monster relations (like enmities, or diplomacy)". Tricking enemies into fighting each other is incredibly fun I think, especially in Shiren, and seeing how they interact naturally in Caves of Qud is also interesting. Trying to legislate it out - as a footnote - is embarassing.

6. Single player character. More than the other items on the list, I do get why they put it here, but I still dislike it. A squad-based roguelike could be great IMO. FTL approaches this idea very nicely.

goferchan posted:

Behold -- a roguelike!

Serephina posted:

Hah, just came to the thread to vent about exactly that! Accidentally discovered some new content in Cogmind a run or two ago but screwed the pooch, so have been trying to figure out how to get back to that spot. Did a song and a dance to get to a certain locked door that requires a certain passphrase, and as I step up to it I trigger an explosive trap, which hurts me and obliterates the access terminal, leaving nothing but a lonesome impervious blast door at the end of an empty corridor in the rear end-end of nowhere.

I alt-f4'd.

Dynamic storytelling my rear end.

victrix posted:

Heads up, Nova Drift is going on deep sale now for the last time in a good while according to the dev - 1.0 is coming out at some point this year but the game is already bursting at the seams with content

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/858210/view/4115799300833592818?l=english

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/858210/view/4115799300833592818?snr=1_5_9_

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

WTF, Nova Drift is still in Early Access? I played it years ago and felt it was a finished product back then.

unattended spaghetti posted:

Anyone try out the Desktop Dungeons remake thingie? Does it have gamepad support? I never played the original because circa ‘11 and ‘12 I was mired in DCSS to the exclusion of pretty much all other games.

King of Bleh posted:

It's kind of sad because you can tell that the devs of desktop dungeons have a lot of passion for it, but I also feel like the ugly original free alpha/demo version was the best iteration of the game and everything since then has just diluted the purity of the premise.

Serephina posted:

I feel the exact same way about Spelunky.

Serephina posted:

I feel the exact same way about Spelunky.

King of Bleh posted:

It's kind of sad because you can tell that the devs of desktop dungeons have a lot of passion for it, but I also feel like the ugly original free alpha/demo version was the best iteration of the game and everything since then has just diluted the purity of the premise.

Serephina posted:

I feel the exact same way about Spelunky.

unattended spaghetti posted:

Everyone buy and play the gently caress out of Novadrift. It is incredible.

Anyone try out the Desktop Dungeons remake thingie? Does it have gamepad support? I never played the original because circa ‘11 and ‘12 I was mired in DCSS to the exclusion of pretty much all other games.

King of Bleh posted:

It's kind of sad because you can tell that the devs of desktop dungeons have a lot of passion for it, but I also feel like the ugly original free alpha/demo version was the best iteration of the game and everything since then has just diluted the purity of the premise.

unattended spaghetti posted:

Everyone buy and play the gently caress out of Novadrift. It is incredible.

Anyone try out the Desktop Dungeons remake thingie? Does it have gamepad support? I never played the original because circa ‘11 and ‘12 I was mired in DCSS to the exclusion of pretty much all other games.

Steam Recommendations posted:

LONESTAR is a strategic

Steam Recommendations posted:

Roguelike

Steam Recommendations posted:

spaceship

Steam Recommendations posted:

deckbuilder

William Henry Hairytaint posted:

I like strategy!



gently caress yeah!



I'm starting to think it's never gonna end.