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I saw the recent posts and got excited for a second... Then I remembered who the author is. Write the book, Patty!
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Mar 9, 2024 03:46
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Unreliable narrator works for me, because the way Kvothe describes everything just sounds like some poo poo he made up on the fly and isn't consistent at all. Like when he was in the Archives with the candle and got punished for it even though there's no reasonable way for that to be his fault within the story but everyone conveniently ignores that fact, that's just a person who's bad at lying underselling what they did that got them banned from the Archives because they want you on their side. The problem is if it is Unreliable Narrator then….. so what? It doesn’t really help the plot or make it more clever.
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Mar 9, 2024 05:26
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:The sexualization bugs me because it's a dude in like his 40s just waxing philosophic about all the women he wanted to gently caress but didn't, which is pretty normal, but also emphasizing how much he definitely still wants to gently caress those teenagers. Are the sex ninjas at least adults who are adult-coded and written as adults? Because that would be less bad. The funniest thing is he’s not in his 40s. Yes he’s written like that but according to the book timeline he’s like 25 as an innkeeper. Waxing about his days as a 17 year old who wrecked the world
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Mar 9, 2024 05:49
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Ccs posted:The funniest thing is he’s not in his 40s. Yes he’s written like that but according to the book timeline he’s like 25 as an innkeeper. Waxing about his days as a 17 year old who wrecked the world 15-16. Like I’m pretty sure originally the Hogwarts College was Hogwarts High, if only because despite him being supposedly the youngest person to ever be admitted, no one ever acts like he’s that young.
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Mar 9, 2024 06:30
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pentyne posted:Rothfuss is a Joss Whedon feminist especially for all the negatively that can be associated with that term. "I love a woman's tits and rear end just as much as the next guy, but the part of her body that gets me the most ROCK HARD is her brain."
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Mar 9, 2024 09:31
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Scholtz posted:"I love a woman's tits and rear end just as much as the next guy, but the part of her body that gets me the most ROCK HARD is her brain." "The Hobbit movie is like finding out the girl you liked in middle school is now doing porn, so now she's hot but slutty and clearly not into Nerd poo poo anymore."
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Mar 9, 2024 11:09
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Hughmoris posted:I saw the recent posts and got excited for a second... Then I remembered who the author is. Unironically don't want him to write the next book because no matter how bad it is it'd sell a shitload and have tons of people gushing praise about how wonderful it is and it's the next GoT* or whatever. Not that I need to worry about it since he's very clearly not writing. * it is the next GoT in that it's a series the author will never finish despite insisting otherwise.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:04
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Evil Fluffy posted:Unironically don't want him to write the next book because no matter how bad it is it'd sell a shitload and have tons of people gushing praise about how wonderful it is and it's the next GoT* or whatever. Not that I need to worry about it since he's very clearly not writing. At least the GoT guy has written other books and isn't just coasting on being promoted heavily as The Next Rising Star.
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Mar 9, 2024 21:43
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Evil Fluffy posted:Also he might have Named her, effectively putting her under his control and making her unable to resist him so... yeah. WMF is a legitimately awful book and anyone who unironically suggests and praises the Kingkiller book either has awful taste in books, truly horrific morals, or both. Yeah, he either Named her and coerced her into loving him, or we are supposed to accept that the Sex Fairy thought he was so good at sex that he not only deserves to stay and have more sex, but that he would be the first person to survive having sex with her. He was so good at sex that he was literally the best sex the Sex Fairy has ever had. So there's that. Also the scene where the barmaid somehow recognizes on sight that he's a sexhaver now is just...something else.
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Mar 10, 2024 03:45
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Ravenfood posted:Yeah, he either Named her and coerced her into loving him, or we are supposed to accept that the Sex Fairy thought he was so good at sex that he not only deserves to stay and have more sex, but that he would be the first person to survive having sex with her. He was so good at sex that he was literally the best sex the Sex Fairy has ever had. So there's that. It's amazing just how much F-grade wish fulfillment garbage is in WMF and it's extremely telling when someone says they love that book. Like, the only thing I can remember from the book that was interesting in any way was the rear end in a top hat Tree whose gimmick is using omnipotence to put anyone who meets it down a ruinous path. Though that also begs the question of why the Fae haven't destroyed the drat thing or cleared out the woods around it to better enforce their whole "if you go near this we will loving kill you" rule that apparently exists yet didn't get enforced on Kvothfuss. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 03:49
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Evil Fluffy posted:It's amazing just how much F-grade wish fulfillment garbage is in WMF and it's extremely telling when someone says they love that book. They actually did clear out the woods. Even insects that draw near are sniped by super fae archers. But apparently all of them were asleep whatever, or that was all a lie.
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Mar 10, 2024 04:30
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Yes, the only plausible excuse for a lot of the WMF story is "yeah made it all up lol" because of how much it clashes with the already existing narrative or quite frankly is just too weird to fit. It would be completely on brand for Rothfuss to have written a rape scene without realizing it though.
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Mar 10, 2024 07:32
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Kvoth is just an idiot, I've decided. Both young and old. I'm ~5 hours into WMF and Kvoth has just been accused of distributing charms, which he literally did, he gave a little girl a thing he called a charm at the beginning of the book and told her it would fend off demons. He has no recollection of this event, which given the breakneck pace of these books may have been two weeks ago. He's just an idiot.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:07
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Kchama posted:They actually did clear out the woods. Even insects that draw near are sniped by super fae archers. Oh, I guess I've forgotten more of the book than I realized. Hopefully I can eventually forget the rest of it while remembering that it's garbage.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:47
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The whole unreliable narrator gimmick only works if it actually contributes something to the reader's experience with the narrative. The Book of the New Sun and other Gene Wolfe novels use it because it forces the reader to ask questions and to examine the text from multiple angles. It's clear that Severian is lying, but why is Severian lying? What does it mean in a story about redemption and forgiving sins when the protagonist is a little poo poo who makes things up to make himself look better, while kind of just openly admitting to atrocities on the side? It's informative in understanding Severian's character: when he downplays something, we get that he actually feels bad about it or wishes it could have happened another way. When he's honest, he's either sort of oblivious to the connotations or is showing us what kind of person he really is. Plus, there are elements of Severian's own story that Severian himself doesn't understand, and these are often entry points for the reader to see that far more is actually going on than just what Severian sees or comments on. For Kvothe, there's no additional meat on the bones of the story as a result of his lies. He's either deeply creepy and exists in an incoherent world, or he's deeply creepy and a liar. But the lies don't fit together or open any new doors: he's just a worse person than he claims to be, and the bar for the quality of his character is already at the absolute lowest point it possibly could be. And even still, taking the framing device at face value, that there actually is a journalist or whatever who is interested in writing his story, it lends credibility to the idea that Kvothe actually was somebody at some point and that these stories even if exaggerated were being widely told since all of that happens outside of his narration. The unreliable narrator gimmick also only really works when you have a complete story. There's never going to be an ending, so none of these pieces have any hope of fitting together to tell a compelling narrative.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:30
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Ccs posted:The funniest thing is he’s not in his 40s. Yes he’s written like that but according to the book timeline he’s like 25 as an innkeeper. Waxing about his days as a 17 year old who wrecked the world Pretty sure the heavily implied plot point from that contradiction that has yet to be told here is that he has spent a lot of time in the Fey realm where he doesn't age, months can go by in the span of a real world day. It's already been set up already as a plot device once, it's not exactly rocket science that there's a reason for the discrepancy between his age and attitude. But nice cinema sinning.
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Mar 14, 2024 01:37
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Goffer posted:Pretty sure the heavily implied plot point from that contradiction that has yet to be told here is that he has spent a lot of time in the Fey realm where he doesn't age, months can go by in the span of a real world day. It's already been set up already as a plot device once, it's not exactly rocket science that there's a reason for the discrepancy between his age and attitude. According to Kvothe he was there a couple months at most. When asked how long he was there, he mentioned he had only grew a little beard and shaved it (though Felurian didn't like it when he shaved) a couple times. So that kind of kills that idea dead. Also if he didn't age and just spent all of his time boning for decades, then he's still basically 25 mind and body and not someone who has lived a hard life for decades but looks younger. Also is it really 'cinema sinning' to point out a contradiction like that? Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 01:50
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Kchama posted:According to Kvothe he was there a couple months at most. When asked how long he was there, he mentioned he had only grew a little beard and shaved it (though Felurian didn't like it when he shaved) a couple times. So that kind of kills that idea dead. I would have thought the obvious future plot point would be that he returns to the Fey for an extended period, not just boning but at bare minimum something involved in wherever Bast is from, releasing the spider things, provoking a Fey invasion, and other more taxing experiences that age him to the point where he is at in the book. I don't think it's too difficult to infer that(?). The timeline age discrepancy is intentionally written as a contradiction. It'd say its pretty disingenuous or poor media literacy to imply otherwise.
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Mar 14, 2024 02:14
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Patrick Rothfuss has done exactly 0 in the entirety of his written body of work to make me think that "giving him credit" is earned or deserved. Assuming he does ever write book 3 (lol, lmao even), there's no reason to think that he'll do the "obvious things" that he's supposedly "set up".
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Mar 14, 2024 02:23
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I guess you could read a different book
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Mar 14, 2024 02:40
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The part where Kvothe lives in poverty on the rape streets for three whole years before abruptly bootstrapping himself out in the space of an hour and then declaring that "not as wealthy as my friend who is a literal prince" is the only true poverty is also a deliberate contradiction setting up a future plot point that examines the duality of man's nature you illiterate philistines.
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Mar 14, 2024 02:55
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Goffer posted:I would have thought the obvious future plot point would be that he returns to the Fey for an extended period, not just boning but at bare minimum something involved in wherever Bast is from, releasing the spider things, provoking a Fey invasion, and other more taxing experiences that age him to the point where he is at in the book. I don't think it's too difficult to infer that(?). None of that stuff has even been hinted at in the books that are out, and the third book doesn't seem to be forthcoming. Like his legend and the things he's done has all been set out, and none of them involve a return to the fae world. Also part of the problem is that people in the book act as if he is REALLY older than 25, not that he's a 25 year old who is simply extra world-weary and experienced beyond his years. "Maybe something in the future will happen" is a pretty weak counter-argument. Sure, it's possible something will happen. Goffer posted:I guess you could read a different book I believe they have, and that's why they're not fans of Rothfuss's books. Lottery of Babylon posted:The part where Kvothe lives in poverty on the rape streets for three whole years before abruptly bootstrapping himself out in the space of an hour and then declaring that "not as wealthy as my friend who is a literal prince" is the only true poverty is also a deliberate contradiction setting up a future plot point that examines the duality of man's nature you illiterate philistines. Yeah, this is kind of why I don't have any faith in there being anything like what Goffer thinks is happening happening, because things basically change depending on what short story that has currently been dropped into the book. Kchama fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 02:57
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Goffer posted:I would have thought the obvious future plot point would be that he returns to the Fey for an extended period, not just boning but at bare minimum something involved in wherever Bast is from, releasing the spider things, provoking a Fey invasion, and other more taxing experiences that age him to the point where he is at in the book. I don't think it's too difficult to infer that(?). there is no future plot point because Rothfuss isn't writing anything and there's way more internally inconsistent discrepancies in the book prior to that with no "uh, timey-wimey stuff?" justifications its bad enough that it pretty much has to be revealed he's just making tons of poo poo up or the plot narrative falls apart, except he can't even keep his own lies consistent so it's hard to believe he's somehow this figure of massive renown and the whole fairyland scene is so transparently just another short story squashed together into the book that any speculation about the long term consequences is a waste of time
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Mar 14, 2024 03:03
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it's like chekov's gun but Rothfuss wrote an entire armory and is now trying to figure out which one he can use and hopefully convince people all the other guns don't exist and it's not working because it means discarding a ton of his perfectly crafted narrative tools as wild bullshit and trying to handwave them away rothfuss' big author deal is he insists he's poured over every word, every space, every piece of punctuation to work the writing to a perfect state. If that's not true then he's admitting he's a hack and I don't think his ego could survive it.
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Mar 14, 2024 03:05
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Like it even seems like Rothfuss realized that the disparate stories didn't really gel together all that well, because after the Tarbean section Bast I believe is all "Oh woe, why didn't he just use the magic he had spent his childhood learning to escape his terrible situation?!" and all the obvious questions and basically got told "Oh well, his MIND was sleeping so he just acted like he never had anything like that to begin with, it all makes sense."
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Mar 14, 2024 03:15
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Most likely Rothfuss saw an episode of DBZ with the hyperbolic time chamber and thought it was a neat idea and so just casually snuck it into his books with more sex fairies and then never really thought about it again.Kchama posted:I believe they have, and that's why they're not fans of Rothfuss's books. Reading is for nerds.
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Mar 14, 2024 03:16
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Atlas Hugged posted:Most likely Rothfuss saw an episode of DBZ with the hyperbolic time chamber and thought it was a neat idea and so just casually snuck it into his books with more sex fairies and then never really thought about it again. Hey, no. The Room of Spirit and Time is way cooler than the Sex Fairy Zone.
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Mar 14, 2024 03:25
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Unreliable narrator works for me, because the way Kvothe describes everything just sounds like some poo poo he made up on the fly and isn't consistent at all. This isn't what an unreliable narrator does, though. An unreliable narrator doesn't just make poo poo up as they go. An unreliable narrator consistently misreports events to serve their own agenda in a way that is made evident to the attentive reader through the rest of the text. The classic example is Nabakov's Humbert Humbert, a man who kidnaps a girl and rapes her but tells the reader it's all a romantic adventure. Rothfuss arranges a pretty great frame for an unreliable narrator: "here is the greatest hero of his age reduced to a lonely barkeep at the edge of nowhere. Why? Because his heroism was all a sham. Now he will tell his true story." Then you can have the "true" story be another sham and slowly reveal that Kvothe really is the greatest hero of his age, and he's trying to cover up whatever went down with the Chandrian and why those spiders (remember them?) are showing up because all hell would break loose if people found out the truth. But Rothfuss instead went with a story where Kvothe really is the greatest hero of his age. It's just the stories have it wrong. He didn't kill a dragon. He killed a draccus, which is a fire-breathing reptile that is "commonly believed to be the inspiration for most dragon mythology in the Four Corners." It's Rothfuss who just made poo poo up on the fly.
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Mar 14, 2024 03:54
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PeterWeller posted:This isn't what an unreliable narrator does, though. An unreliable narrator doesn't just make poo poo up as they go. An unreliable narrator consistently misreports events to serve their own agenda in a way that is made evident to the attentive reader through the rest of the text. The classic example is Nabakov's Humbert Humbert, a man who kidnaps a girl and rapes her but tells the reader it's all a romantic adventure. Classic example of people not getting the loving point as well https://www.businessinsider.com/jk-rowling-favorite-books-2016-7 quote:Like many other admirer's of Nabokov's novel of a pedophile who pursues a 12-year-old girl, Rowling loves it for the writing style. PeterWeller posted:Rothfuss arranges a pretty great frame for an unreliable narrator: "here is the greatest hero of his age reduced to a lonely barkeep at the edge of nowhere. Why? Because his heroism was all a sham. Now he will tell his true story." Then you can have the "true" story be another sham and slowly reveal that Kvothe really is the greatest hero of his age, and he's trying to cover up whatever went down with the Chandrian and why those spiders (remember them?) are showing up because all hell would break loose if people found out the truth. Also merely mentioning "the woman" is enough to send Kvothe into a freezing rage and scare everyone in the room. Totally a cool and normal thing about the escort/geisha he was completely in love with and had to watch her date a parade of wealthy men he hated oh he almost called her a filthy whore during a disagreement for not loving him back. pentyne fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 04:06
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Kchama posted:None of that stuff has even been hinted at in the books that are out, and the third book doesn't seem to be forthcoming. Like his legend and the things he's done has all been set out, and none of them involve a return to the fae world. Also part of the problem is that people in the book act as if he is REALLY older than 25, not that he's a 25 year old who is simply extra world-weary and experienced beyond his years. I think you'll find if you read the actual book it's littered with references to him being in the Fey for some time (post his first visit), and the fact that they're leaking into the world is his fault? His casual relation with Bast, knowledge of the scrale, knowing secret knowledge of fey rights and names, protection against skin walkers, etc. Thats not something he learnt on his first visit. I'm not sure how to put it any more bluntly than it's pretty detailed in the basic text that he is going back in and stay there a long time. 25yo Kvothe to a middle aged scholar and a demon prince: "You are both so young". Gee I wonder why he said that, just a hilarious mistake by the dumb author. Cinema sin counter goes *Ding*! Goffer fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 05:20
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Maybe the things Kvothe did like three years ago have faded into myth and legend because everyone else spent decades in the hyperbolic time faember too
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Mar 14, 2024 06:36
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Goffer posted:I think you'll find if you read the actual book it's littered with references to him being in the Fey for some time (post his first visit), and the fact that they're leaking into the world is his fault? His casual relation with Bast, knowledge of the scrale, knowing secret knowledge of fey rights and names, protection against skin walkers, etc. Thats not something he learnt on his first visit. I'm not sure how to put it any more bluntly than it's pretty detailed in the basic text that he is going back in and stay there a long time. None of that stuff even requires him to actually be in the fae realm, or even for a long time. Kvothe’s entire gimmick is that he learns stuff extremely fast, hell he picks up entire writing systems in a short period of time. He doesn’t even need to be in the fae realm to cause stuff to leak into the human world. Just meeting Bast is enough to learn about the rest, as one would expect a fae prince to know all of that information. Eight years is enough time to meet and become close to Bast. The scrael aren’t even confirmed to be fae, and they don’t particularly fit what we’ve seen. We know so little about them all that it’s hard to say much at all. What is with your weird Cinema Sins obsession? Also, even if Kvothe did go into the Fey for decades, he’s not going to be older than the 150+ year old Bast who we must assume use to live permanently in the Fey. It just makes it seem even more like he’s being overdramatic. Lottery of Babylon posted:Maybe the things Kvothe did like three years ago have faded into myth and legend because everyone else spent decades in the hyperbolic time faember too Being in the Room of Spirit and Time for like a day in human time meant that everyone hyped up his very minor and largely ordinary misadventures to legendary levels. Kchama fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 09:31
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Eagerly awaiting book 3 to settle this little tiff once and for all
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Mar 14, 2024 14:01
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Is there some sort of record for biggest gap between releases in a series? Doesn't even matter if it's books, comics ,TV or other media. Rothfuss has gotta be approaching the all-time record right? And I don't think people who died should count, since they have a valid excuse.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:02
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It's not even on the level of Duke Nukem Forever yet, which was only 14 years late, where WMF was released in 2011, only 13 years ago. I assume there have been books that took decades to be published.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:12
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Goffer posted:I think you'll find if you read the actual book it's littered with references to him being in the Fey for some time (post his first visit), and the fact that they're leaking into the world is his fault? His casual relation with Bast, knowledge of the scrale, knowing secret knowledge of fey rights and names, protection against skin walkers, etc. Thats not something he learnt on his first visit. I'm not sure how to put it any more bluntly than it's pretty detailed in the basic text that he is going back in and stay there a long time. you seem to actually like the book and are arguing its good/great with people who do not like the books or Rothfuss personally on account of his many, many gross behaviors. maybe head over to r/kingkiller if you want spirited discussion on theorycrafting about how great the book is for dropping clues/hints about stuff.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:17
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Goffer posted:I guess you could read a different book We have, that's why we know the Kingkiller books are absolute dogshit. We've seen two books and both of them have unrelated short stories (Tarbean, killing the fake Ruh, etc) shoehorned in. There is no grand plan, Rothfuss has been winging it and shoehorning poo poo in since the beginning. Even what little promise with the whole "my legends are bullshit here's the boring truth" thing was very quickly yeeted out the window for full blown "actually it's all true and then some" storytelling. pentyne posted:you seem to actually like the book and are arguing its good/great with people who do not like the books or Rothfuss personally on account of his many, many gross behaviors. I think it's fine for someone who's a fan to be in the thread. It also means we still have a chance to save them and point them towards actually good writers. Or even just Kindle Unlimited writers who vary in quality but still have plenty of series better written than Kingkiller (IE: Cradle).
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Mar 14, 2024 16:57
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Shivers posted:Is there some sort of record for biggest gap between releases in a series? Doesn't even matter if it's books, comics ,TV or other media. Rothfuss has gotta be approaching the all-time record right? there's probably a list somewhere - the one that springs immediately to my mind is Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman, which was (posthumously) released 38 years after A Canticle for Leibowitz so Rothfuss has a while yet! (but also isn't following up anything like Canticle, which is a genuine classic)
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Mar 14, 2024 18:09
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I would say the whole Tarbean poverty adventure feels like the only out of place section of Name of the Wind. WMF then has 3-4 comparable sections. Attacking the pirates, fae land sex, fake Ruh, and sex ninja village. The inability to write book 3 is probably because he quickly assembled book 2 from his existing short stories and filled in the rest, and he can't do that anymore for book 3 because the whole point of the last part of a trilogy is to make everything in the previous 2 books relevant. On that note, it's extremely weird how almost all the WMF short stories involve sex in creepy situations. With the pirates, he ends up having sex with the sex ninja who teaches him ninja moves which she expects to be killed for when returning to the village, the Fae has been mentioned repeatedly, he has sex with literal trafficked rape victims to....cure them? And the whole sex ninja village is something a horny 13 year old boy would write for a ttrpg.
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Mar 14, 2024 18:11
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Shivers posted:Is there some sort of record for biggest gap between releases in a series? Doesn't even matter if it's books, comics ,TV or other media. Rothfuss has gotta be approaching the all-time record right? Does the 55 years between To Kill A Mockingbird and Go Set A Watchman count? (I personally think GSAW should have stayed in the draft pile.)
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