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I would say the opposite, Slave Zero X is awkward and poorly designed on almost every level.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:18
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For me it would be because sometimes I get the sensation that rogue-like is more of a marketing term than a meaningful genre classification. I'm sure there are plenty of us who do enjoy deck builders, I know I do, but even I get a little annoyed sometimes when I look up the rogue like category in steam and it's flooded with primarily deck builders. I think it would be easier for people to find what they want If you were to snip the thin membrane between them and just let them be their own distinct genres. Like why can't deck builders just be deck builders?
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Mar 14, 2024 19:18
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ImpAtom posted:I would say the opposite, Slave Zero X is awkward and poorly designed on almost every level. Fight me
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Mar 14, 2024 19:20
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Fight! Fight! Fight!
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Mar 14, 2024 19:21
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Tea Party Crasher posted:For me it would be because sometimes I get the sensation that rogue-like is more of a marketing term than a meaningful genre classification. I'm sure there are plenty of us who do enjoy deck builders, I know I do, but even I get a little annoyed sometimes when I look up the rogue like category in steam and it's flooded with primarily deck builders. Because 'deck builder' is an even more obscure term than roguelike and can refer to all kinds of games from Yu-gi-oh style CCGs to Slay the Spire. "Roguelike Deckbuilder" neatly clarifies "A deckbuilder designed around single runs with minimal to no carry over where building your deck from scratch each run is considered part of the game" Jack Trades posted:Fight me Sure, I hope you're prepared for the same burst combo done over and over again.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:23
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Tea Party Crasher posted:For me it would be because sometimes I get the sensation that rogue-like is more of a marketing term than a meaningful genre classification. I'm sure there are plenty of us who do enjoy deck builders, I know I do, but even I get a little annoyed sometimes when I look up the rogue like category in steam and it's flooded with primarily deck builders.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:24
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ImpAtom posted:Because 'deck builder' is an even more obscure term than roguelike and can refer to all kinds of games from Yu-gi-oh style CCGs to Slay the Spire. I don't really buy that somehow deck builder is obscure, but rogue-like deck builder isn't. You build your deck and start over from scratch each time when playing Ascension, but I wouldn't call it a rogue-like
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Mar 14, 2024 19:30
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No Wave posted:Because somewhere around Binding of Isaac in 2012 there was a massive revolution in games where the formula of short permadeath runs with high randomness was (re-)introduced to every single genre to excellent effect. A less smelly disgusting group of gamers would take the W and love that Rogue would be eternally considered the progenitor of this basic approach to game design, but oh no not the RL thread. lmao when you’re right you’re right.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:34
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Tea Party Crasher posted:I don't really buy that somehow deck builder is obscure, but rogue-like deck builder isn't. You build your deck and start over from scratch each time when playing Ascension, but I wouldn't call it a rogue-like "Obscure" meaning "unclear" not "Unknown." Deckbuilders can be tons of different things and if you want to play Slay the Spire you don't necessarily want to play Midnight Suns.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:36
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ImpAtom posted:"Obscure" meaning "unclear" not "Unknown." Deckbuilders can be tons of different things and if you want to play Slay the Spire you don't necessarily want to play Midnight Suns. That's fair. In my mind It made sense to just delineate them as deck builders or collectible card games, but from this I can see where the lines would get too blurry
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Mar 14, 2024 19:41
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achra has controller support now, i remember someone asking about that but not who it was
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Mar 14, 2024 19:51
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cock hero flux posted:achra has controller support now, i remember someone asking about that but not who it was Oh poo poo that was me, thank you kind goon for the good news
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Mar 14, 2024 19:52
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i never write steam reviews but i kind of feel compelled to drop a thumbs up for the achra dev's sheer pace and force of will
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Mar 14, 2024 19:56
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Awesome! posted:i never write steam reviews but i kind of feel compelled to drop a thumbs up for the achra dev's sheer pace and force of will Downvoting cuz they need self care!!! what's that meme, "I want shorter games with worse graphics made by people who are paid more to work less and I'm not kidding" (naw I'm happy they're doing well, same with the Dotage dev  )unattended spaghetti posted:Deckbuilders are cool but I swear they are so bad for exposing designer incompetence. Other genres get away with that kind of sloppy design because of obfuscation. this post is bang on, if a game is going to stand largely on mechanics, they better be really loving good (c.f. belatro), and even then I still might not enjoy them as much as something with a stronger theme and other content that lets me overlook or gloss over some weaker mechanical aspects If the game is all mechanics it can be a kinda zen thing, but my kinda zen games tend to be mechanics heavy in a totally different context (multiplayer fps games) unattended spaghetti posted:Also, complexity for its own sake is stupid as gently caress. You can tell when someone with engineer’s disease makes a deckbuilder. It’s immediate and intensely off-putting. Vault of the Void over here sweating
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Mar 14, 2024 20:20
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Yeah Imma say it now btw while I’m on a roll Balatro will not stand the test of time if LT doesn’t respond to user feedback. I love it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s deep as a puddle atm. There’s lots of cool interactions to find, and that is compelling, but what happens when the novelty of finding new ones wears off? The act of playing it never materially changes all that much run to run, you know? Also I think it will change and evolve. Those sales numbers don’t lie.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:30
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unattended spaghetti posted:Yeah Imma say it now btw while I’m on a roll Balatro will not stand the test of time if LT doesn’t respond to user feedback. I love it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s deep as a puddle atm. I agree. I've been a big fan since the demo, but after playing a good 25 hours I'm noticing that I am seeing a lot of the same Jokers and using them the same way from run to run to the point where I'm kind of annoyed at getting supernova and trousers again rather than feeling excited about it. Maybe the idea is that you get variety from the different decks and how you can uniquely exploit them with particular Jokers, but I'm itching for more depth myself
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Mar 14, 2024 20:36
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Tea Party Crasher posted:I don't think this is an especially strong reason to call the former set of games (slay the spire, roguebook, monster train, cobalt core) roguelikes. You can differentiate these games by the fact that the latter are games where you are playing against an opponent constrained by the same card game rules as you. Meanwhile in the former games It is usually only you that is interacting with the game via cards, and the enemies just have sets of attacks that they cycle through. To me tcgs and ccgs are not deckbuilders, some try to incorporate deckbuilding into the game but even in drafting it is fairly removed from the actual game. Deckbuilding is primarily about building the deck with the gameplay revolving around iteration and reginement during the course of the game, using the deck as a random selection of your options. TCGs for the most part you play the game once the deck is built but it's fairly static from there. The OG deckbuilder Dominion* is the prime example imo and it uses the deck as a wonderful tool to introduce randomness and option weighing letting you think about potential moves and what your chances for buys are per hand. Its a great physical mechanic in board games and tbh i don't care so much for virtual cards because i can't manipulate them physically. this is course got iterated on as Dominion is nearly entirely about just that, buying cards and building combos. Later games varied it up such as Ascension, Argent the Consortium, Star realms and even games that inhabit the same design space but swap the cards for dice adding additional variance like Quarriors Ultimately Slay the Spire does represent the deckbuilding genre well but due to the success of that games which are not run based or about modifying your deck just started using the tag because it's popular and its got decks. So really deckbuilders by default are roguelikes in nature because the base deck is what you start with and modify thru the game, while the others are not even deckbuilders! It is funny that once again a general vagueness in the genre name means its easy to apply to whatever if its got cards *I would find it extremely funny if they were called Dominionlikes
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Mar 14, 2024 20:38
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unattended spaghetti posted:Yeah Imma say it now btw while I’m on a roll Balatro will not stand the test of time if LT doesn’t respond to user feedback. I love it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s deep as a puddle atm. yeah that one specifically is interesting because it's absolutely a well made game, but it does almost nothing for me, being both themeless (no overarching story/setting/lore/characters/quests/interactivity/multiple environments/big ost/nON MoDaL GaMEplay etc), and because, well, poker (zzz) but for the 'imma play solitaire for 5000 hours' crowd, it's absolute loving catnip, and more power to them also I realize complaining about production value in the roguelike thread is v. silly, but as a simple point, which is more evocative to you, Path of Achra or Belatro? ... I don't like Achra much either, I'm not very good at examples but it is very well themed!
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Mar 14, 2024 20:39
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Silly question re: production values/Achra. Does it have actual sprites or animation? Or is it just kinda like lightly animated tiles? I hate to say this but if it’s the former I’d probably like it, and if the latter I’ll take a hard pass. I want my one-button build to look badass, you know? Also if anyone’s picked up Novadrift I wanna hear about your experiences. I feel like that game doesn’t get talked about enough for as good as it is. Oh and one more thing jesus I need to get off the forums but that game above can’t remember the name that will let you play as the stuff that kills you, two things I found out about it today. First, it’s being made by the Outward devs which makes it an immediate interest piqued for me, and second, I saw a post from a dev on reddit talking about the lack of aesthetics-forward traditional roguelikes and I totally agree and think they are onto something.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:58
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unattended spaghetti posted:Silly question re: production values/Achra. Does it have actual sprites or animation? Or is it just kinda like lightly animated tiles? I hate to say this but if it’s the former I’d probably like it, and if the latter I’ll take a hard pass. I want my one-button build to look badass, you know? It does have sprites, but doesn't really have any animation to speak of.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:08
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unattended spaghetti posted:Oh and one more thing jesus I need to get off the forums but that game above can’t remember the name that will let you play as the stuff that kills you, two things I found out about it today. First, it’s being made by the Outward devs which makes it an immediate interest piqued for me, and second, I saw a post from a dev on reddit talking about the lack of aesthetics-forward traditional roguelikes and I totally agree and think they are onto something. The game you're talking about is Lost in Prayer and it looks very interesting indeed. Their Steam description includes a reference to the Berlin Interpretation, which is a bit misguided since their game doesn't pass its criteria. Not that that's a bad thing, of course!
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Mar 14, 2024 21:09
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Tea Party Crasher posted:I think it would be easier for people to find what they want If you were to snip the thin membrane between them and just let them be their own distinct genres. Like why can't deck builders just be deck builders? Slay the Spire et al are clearly Roguelikes because they're at base a deckbuilder--like Dominion, or Star Realms--but they also have metaprogression (your deck and resources do not reset between matches, as in a true deckbuilder).
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Mar 14, 2024 21:12
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Cerepol posted:Ultimately Slay the Spire does represent the deckbuilding genre well but due to the success of that games which are not run based or about modifying your deck just started using the tag because it's popular and its got decks. This came up recently and I realized the sum total list of Spirelikes I would recommend to someone was... 0 Maybe 1, if you count Monster Train, and there it's like why not just say Spire again The rest of the list was technically deckbuilders, but they all used cards in a totally different context, or had a very different structure (Alina of the Arena, Card Quest, Wildfrost) This is also a great self own because I continue to buy stuff tagged roguelike deckbuilder on steam, and am consistently disappointed. I sacrifice my wallet so that you don't have to (I genuinely do love those games though, and finding those and games like Warriors of the Nile 2 is why I bother). unattended spaghetti posted:Silly question re: production values/Achra. Does it have actual sprites or animation? Or is it just kinda like lightly animated tiles? I hate to say this but if it’s the former I’d probably like it, and if the latter I’ll take a hard pass. I want my one-button build to look badass, you know? Mostly tiles I think, it's pretty lowfi production, maybe slightly more than Rift Wizard? I think the reason Nova doesn't get a lot of talk is it's a very direct action game, there's not a lot of high level strategies you need to discuss, you get in there and start blowing up stuff while the psychedelic explosions and enemies fill the screen. There's also no real routing during a run and I think it generally leans more into the power fantasy side of things. Game good tho.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:15
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Magicraft just got a big update adding another zone, more spells, fixes, etc: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2103140/view/6525225191045117758?l=english
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Mar 14, 2024 21:25
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Feels good playing Shiren again and losing not to fake roguelike action game stuff like "my reflexes failed me" or "I dodged in the wrong direction" or dumb dcss tactics nonsense like "I misjudged the power of this particular enemy" but instead, true gamer experiences like "I put all my staves in a pot and then a walrus stole it and ran away"
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Mar 15, 2024 03:07
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Card Intrigues bolster anew with Phantom Rose 2 Sapphire to v1.2 https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1964200/view/4118049834334010994 quote:Thank you for playing Phantom Rose! Today, I’d like to introduce an exciting content update for version 1.2. This update focuses on improving existing game modes with new features, and new content. Please check it out!
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Mar 15, 2024 03:35
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Anyone playing that new backpack battles game? I'm having a good time with it. I'm glad someone finally looked at the resident evil 4 briefcase inventory and went "This could just be the whole game"
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Mar 15, 2024 04:58
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Tea Party Crasher posted:Anyone playing that new backpack battles game? I'm having a good time with it. I'm glad someone finally looked at the resident evil 4 briefcase inventory and went "This could just be the whole game" I love that game, I even asked for somebody to make the autobattler thread to talk about it but it died tragically: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4047976
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Mar 15, 2024 06:03
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OK, Nova Drift is fantastic. It feels great to play with a kind of Asteroids style control scheme. There's a lot of depth and different builds you can go into, and I absolutely love the game's audiovisual style. It's got that awesome Geometry Wars look, and the sound design is what I'd describe as minimalist/brutalist. I know that sounds weird, but the vibe is seriously like a Sinistar era arcade game, where someone cranked the bass and made everything sound wicked as poo poo. I love it. It's a ton of fun. My only concern so far is that it feels like you unlock stuff VERY quickly at least in the beginning, which makes me a bit concerned that on my third game I'll be overwhelmed by one of the ~15 things and features I unlocked during my first two runs, instead of getting to appreciate them bit by bit. But for the sale price it's going right now, it's a no-brainer. loving get it.
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Mar 15, 2024 09:30
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Balatro caught my eye since there are two types of games I just can't say no to, dice allocation games and games that take the trappings of poker and do something unique with it, whether that's Malifaux's poker deck as RNG generator (with a limited hand of cards being used to 'cheat' in a fixed result on an important test) or Regicide turning a 54 poker deck into a hella mean coop card game (it's got a free solo app IIRC). Balatro goes a bit further than both by using actual poker hands but other than that and the visuals there's basically no actual poker in there, which I like. Kinda how I like Persona's use of Tarot symbology and mysticism but I'd be beyond bored if it actually involved tarot readings 
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Mar 15, 2024 09:31
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We really do need more dice allocation roguelites. Or dice allocation video games in general. There was that one colony building game from a few years ago but I remember it being clunky as gently caress, and not a lot since then. E: I guess Die in the Dungeon is also coming out at some point? I remember the demo being a lot of fun. And then there was Dicey Dungeons?
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Mar 15, 2024 09:32
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:We really do need more dice allocation roguelites. Or dice allocation video games in general. There was that one colony building game from a few years ago but I remember it being clunky as gently caress, and not a lot since then. SpellRogue & Dice Tribes (maybe this is the one you had in mind?) fit.
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Mar 15, 2024 10:21
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nrook posted:Feels good playing Shiren again and losing not to fake roguelike action game stuff like "my reflexes failed me" or "I dodged in the wrong direction" or dumb dcss tactics nonsense like "I misjudged the power of this particular enemy" but instead, true gamer experiences like "I put all my staves in a pot and then a walrus stole it and ran away" i know i've died to this over a dozen times. but this time, when i and the monster are both one hit from death, there is literally zero chance that the 10% chance to miss an attack will trigger and i die.
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Mar 15, 2024 10:45
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idk if shiren actually has a 10% chance to miss an attack but that feels approximately correct
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Mar 15, 2024 10:46
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also i turned my run-winning synthesised weapon into an onigiri because i forgot i hadn't identified onigiri scrolls yet and got greedy hoping for a silverpurge or heavenly scroll. then i died. gently caress!!!
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Mar 15, 2024 10:49
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Loddfafnir posted:SpellRogue & Dice Tribes (maybe this is the one you had in mind?) fit. I think I was thinking of Dice Legacy, but it's hard to say because my work VPN blocks Steam connections.
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Mar 15, 2024 11:41
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/2863690/Twilight_Manor_Roguelite_FPS/ About an hour until the strain currently dominated by RoboQuest and Gunfire Reborn gets some potential company here in the new year.
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Mar 15, 2024 12:48
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ExiledTinkerer posted:https://store.steampowered.com/app/2863690/Twilight_Manor_Roguelite_FPS/ Ooh, thanks for the heads up. I love FPS roguelites, and there's always room for more solid entries in the genre.
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Mar 15, 2024 12:51
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Loddfafnir posted:SpellRogue & Dice Tribes (maybe this is the one you had in mind?) fit. Spellrogue is explicitly an homage to both Dicey Dungeons and Spire. I've beaten it with every character on M6 and 100%ed achievements so I've set it on the back burner for now, but I'll be back to it soon enough. Dicefolk is good so far, but it's not a dice allocation game. You roll dice for both sides in the fight then choose what sequence they're used in. It's got a free demo so you can try it out. I'd give it a soft recommend.
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Mar 15, 2024 12:51
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Jedit posted:Dicefolk is good so far, but it's not a dice allocation game. You roll dice for both sides in the fight then choose what sequence they're used in. It's got a free demo so you can try it out. I'd give it a soft recommend. Yes I agree. This is why I didn't mention Slice & Dice and Circadian Dice, because like Dicefolk they aren't really dice allocation despite being very good.
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Mar 15, 2024 13:08
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