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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Chuck Schumer calling for the people of a Middle Eastern country to rise up and overthrow their leader. Unfortunately, I can't really see there being much immediate effect. New elections can't be called unless one of the core parties in Netanyahu's coalition betrays him, and none of those parties give the slightest poo poo about US pressure. Netanyahu is already a political pariah in Israel, as the blame for Oct 7th has fallen squarely on him and destroyed his political reputation and credibility, so there's no way in hell he's going to call new elections. Members of his own party won't betray him, because they're already so strongly associated with him that they'll be dragged down with him when he goes down. And the other core parties in his coalition are all insane ultraconservatives who already think the Democrats are diehard anti-Semites that plan to poison the pure soul of the Jewish nation with woke multiculturalism or demonic secularism. The secular ultraconservatives are Jewish-supremacists who are convinced that Israel doesn't actually need American assistance, and the religious ultraconservatives are solely concerned with turning Israel into a theocracy and don't give a poo poo about military operations in the first place. So there's not really much room for US pressure to actually have an impact. This could potentially break the unity government that was formed after 10/7, but Netanyahu's core coalition of various fringe right-wingers still has the numbers to hold onto the government all on their own. And I'm not even sure that'll happen, because the Israeli opposition is notoriously foolish, divided, and absolutely short-sighted. I wouldn't put it past them to step in to save Netanyahu in exchange for some minor concessions that Netanyahu will be able to yank away the instant he manages to bribe a few of their members into switching sides. They've done it before. There's a good chance that Bibi's coalition fractures in 2-3 weeks, as the secular ultraconservatives are starting to feud with the religious ultraconservatives. But that's going to be the result of domestic political tensions, totally unrelated to anything the US does.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:40
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Main Paineframe posted:Unfortunately, I can't really see there being much immediate effect. New elections can't be called unless one of the core parties in Netanyahu's coalition betrays him, and none of those parties give the slightest poo poo about US pressure. Netanyahu is already a political pariah in Israel, as the blame for Oct 7th has fallen squarely on him and destroyed his political reputation and credibility, so there's no way in hell he's going to call new elections. Members of his own party won't betray him, because they're already so strongly associated with him that they'll be dragged down with him when he goes down. It probably doesn't have an effect on Israel, but I suspect is it a sign of the Democratic party working out that they need to adapt their stances for US voters. A maybe a sign of changes in US policy to come. (Feel free to scoff at me now.)
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Mar 14, 2024 20:45
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Byzantine posted:It's basically the harm reduction argument but coming from the other side. Yeah, it'd be great if there was an option where nobody was harvesting data, but that option doesn't exist. The options are the Chinese government stockpiling your data, or right-wing American billionaires stockpiling your data, and a lot of people see China as the less harmful of the two. This is correct but I think the threat the government is more worried about is manipulation of the algorithm. If you haven't used TikTok it can be hard to understand just how crazy good their algorithm is at delivering the right content to the right eyeballs and keeping attention etc. All the social media networks have similar goals for their algorithms but when you spend a lot of time on TikTok you come to understand theirs is so much better at those goals. If you have used TikTok it's incredibly interesting to ask your friends that do to switch their phones with you so you can browse the others FYP. It's shocking how different the experience is and what videos are served between me and my wife for example. Anyway I got off on a bit of a tangent, but while the Chinese government having access to all my data is concerning, the fact is if they wanted it they could buy it/steal it/otherwise get it from third parties. It's being presented as the primary problem but I think the powers that be are much more concerned about the incredibly huge influence the Chinese government could have on most of the younger generation and a decent chunk of the older generation if they decided to tweak the algorithm to serve up content slanted in a specific direction on whatever political issue they want. The Palestine/Israel thing posted up thread doesn't concern me but it is an example of what I am talking about. If we get a Hunter Biden laptop style story in October and the Chinese government wants to gently caress with the election they could have a much bigger effect through TikTok than we got through Facebook or Twitter in 2016. I haven't seen solid evidence they are abusing this ability right now but as relations continue to deteriorate they have a psyop ability that previous state actors could only dream about. If the Taiwan straight went hot how comfortable would we be with China having absolute control over the content a decent chunk of the population sees for hours every single day? It's the sole news source for most of Gen Z. I wouldn't want the American government to have that level of control of it either, but if it was sold to an American company I don't believe they would have nearly the same level of influence over it although I do believe they would still have some.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:48
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Eric Cantonese posted:It probably doesn't have an effect on Israel, but I suspect is it a sign of the Democratic party working out that they need to adapt their stances for US voters. A maybe a sign of changes in US policy to come. (Feel free to scoff at me now.) Pretty sure "blame everything Israel does wrong on Netanyahu" has been a liberal Zionist thought for a while. It's insane if you look at what the Israeli governing coalition looks like and have looked like for a very long time, but it's an attractive theory since it lets you wash your hands of the structural issues and deep underlying racism. Pennsylvania Man Bad, essentially.
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Mar 14, 2024 20:51
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shimmy shimmy posted:Pretty sure "blame everything Israel does wrong on Netanyahu" has been a liberal Zionist thought for a while. It's insane if you look at what the Israeli governing coalition looks like and have looked like for a very long time, but it's an attractive theory since it lets you wash your hands of the structural issues and deep underlying racism. Pennsylvania Man Bad, essentially. Could you point to some examples of this having happened from prominent Dem politicians? Because as far as I can tell this is basically unprecedented levels of criticism of Israeli leadership from modern US leadership, as directed towards a select group of Likud extremists as it is.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:02
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shimmy shimmy posted:Pennsylvania Man Bad, essentially.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:04
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golden bubble posted:This is why one of the fastest growing startups right now sells nothing except for a fancy phone pouch that needs a specialty magnet to unlock it. School districts all over the place are starting to buy those locking pouches. My kid's school uses those. After they were introduced, it took the kids less than 48 hours to be able to defeat them, no magnet needed. EDIT: They got new ones this year that were "improved". Same trick still works to open them. When my daughter left school early for a Dr. appointment, her (non-smart!) phone was still in it, and we opened it in about 10 seconds.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:06
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Five Year Plan posted:Thanks, I’m glad I got to learn something about an artist like this. Theater isn’t really my domain, so it’s that much more interesting to hear about the approach of somebody less universally known. When you say Bertolt Brecht dealt in “large ideas,” do you mean that the plays (musicals?) had kind of an ideological bent? Or did you mean “large ideas” in the sense of “dealing with questions of philosophy or the human condition?” … how do you non-ideologically deal with questions of philosophy or the human condition?  But Brecht was a Marxist whose life work was turning dialectics into drama for the ease of consumption, breaking down the bourgeoise bent of the theater as an institution, and contributing to the artistic panoply of the USSR specifically. “Brecht, Bertolt. 1964. Brecht on Theatre: The Development of an Aesthetic. posted:"When I read Marx's Capital", a note by Brecht reveals, "I understood my plays." Marx was, it continues, "the only spectator for my plays I'd ever come across." Like I just have to highlight that “Despite being a leftist, he was never a member of any Communist Party” is an incredibly weird way to describe an author of Marxist teaching plays who chose East Berlin as his home when the 1950s red scare forced him out of the US—it’s technically correct in a specific and narrow way of Brecht having denied being a member of the Communist party when he was hauled in front of HUAC, but he was an intellectual Marxist who devoted his professional life to advancing Marxist thought and practice
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Mar 14, 2024 21:29
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shimmy shimmy posted:Pretty sure "blame everything Israel does wrong on Netanyahu" has been a liberal Zionist thought for a while. It's insane if you look at what the Israeli governing coalition looks like and have looked like for a very long time, but it's an attractive theory since it lets you wash your hands of the structural issues and deep underlying racism. Pennsylvania Man Bad, essentially. Netanyahu personally has directly led efforts to derail US plans for the region for a while. Even when the US managed to get Israel to sign the Oslo Accords, Netanyahu played a major role in frustrating their implementation, while other Israeli leaders have at least paid lip service to the two-state solution even if they have no intention of allowing actual equality. He's also played a significant personal role in derailing other US foreign policy efforts, such as when he colluded with the GOP to pay a visit to Congress without the White House's approval in order to publicly lobby against the Iran deal on the floor of Congress. Aside from being a diplomatic faux pas, it also made clear that Netanyahu had partisan leanings and was willing to openly intervene in US politics - even if it meant siding with the opposition against a sitting president. The Dems have never really forgiven him for that.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:41
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Kagrenak posted:Could you point to some examples of this having happened from prominent Dem politicians? Because as far as I can tell this is basically unprecedented levels of criticism of Israeli leadership from modern US leadership, as directed towards a select group of Likud extremists as it is. It's more that it's been seen commonly in editorials from liberal Zionists for a while. A quick google search to find examples; Thomas Friedman, from yesterday: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/opinion/israel-hamas-war-netanyahu.html NYT Editorial Board from 2022 (which also quotes Friedman, because of course it does): https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/17/opinion/israel-netanyahu.html I know I've seen others from Haaretz, but their paywall is making it harder for me to find them so a lot of the sources ended up being via the NYT. There's a longer article from back in 2023 that goes into the general trend, though, that may be helpful: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-liberal-zionism/ e: mawarannahr posted:Erdoğa constantly says this too. Just wanted to say I noticed this and appreciated it, it was good shimmy shimmy fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 22:46
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shimmy shimmy posted:It's more that it's been seen commonly in editorials from liberal Zionists for a while. A quick google search to find examples; Editorials by hacks like Friedman carry extremely different weight than statements the Senate majority leader who is also notably the most powerful Jewish member of the US government. I see your point though but still think that this is a fairly significant shift.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:01
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Main Paineframe posted:Unfortunately, I can't really see there being much immediate effect. New elections can't be called unless one of the core parties in Netanyahu's coalition betrays him, and none of those parties give the slightest poo poo about US pressure. Netanyahu is already a political pariah in Israel, as the blame for Oct 7th has fallen squarely on him and destroyed his political reputation and credibility, so there's no way in hell he's going to call new elections. Members of his own party won't betray him, because they're already so strongly associated with him that they'll be dragged down with him when he goes down. If the Likud coalition does collapse, are there any projections who would win an election
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Mar 14, 2024 23:37
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Kagrenak posted:Editorials by hacks like Friedman carry extremely different weight than statements the Senate majority leader who is also notably the most powerful Jewish member of the US government. I see your point though but still think that this is a fairly significant shift. There have been signs from other powerful Jewish leaders - Nadler in 2023 wrote some stuff, although it wasn't as pointed. I just think that while it's a shift to see this expressed by a political leader, or at least in such pointed tones, it's still part of an underlying belief amongst Liberal Zionists that the main issue with Israel is Netanyahu rather than anything fundamentally wrong with Israel. Nissin Cup Nudist posted:If the Likud coalition does collapse, are there any projections who would win an election  This is pulled directly off Wikipedia, but you can see that there was a shift post-October 7th away from Likud, Netenyahu's party. Unfortunately it was basically perfectly mirrored by people flocking to to the National Unity party, run by Benny Gantz, which is the party even further to the right than Likud was. Getting rid of Netenyahu or having him become a Minister under PM Gantz is not going to make things better. It's a fundamental problem with Israelis and what they want to happen (genocide, or at the very least strict apartheid controls and all that comes along with it along with colonial settlement projects to push out the Palestinian population) rather than an issue of just who's at the top.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:49
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Which one is the other poorly delineated orange ish line down in the also rans that saw a lot of gains? e: vvv oh. That's nice. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 23:54
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Goatse James Bond posted:Which one is the other poorly delineated orange ish line down in the also rans that saw a lot of gains? Otzma Yehudit, which translates to "Jewish Power". I'll give you one guess where they sit on the political spectrum. It's Ben-Gvir's party, the guy who has a portrait in his living room of Baruch Goldstein, the guy from Brooklyn who massacred 29 Palestinians and wounded 125 others in the 90s. shimmy shimmy fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 23:56
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:If the Likud coalition does collapse, are there any projections who would win an election Polling suggests that Likud would lose 20-30 seats, and National Unity would pick up pretty much all the seats Likud loses. So Netanyahu, at least, would be completely cooked. Also, Yesh Atid (liberal centrists) might lose a few seats to the Arab parties and the Jewish-supremacist parties. It's honestly kind of difficult to forecast exactly what impact that would actually have, because Netanyahu has been the central figure of Israeli politics for so long that a lot of it is twisted around him. For example, National Unity occupies roughly the same ideological position as Likud does - the only real difference between the parties is that Likudniks are unfailingly loyal to Netanyahu, while National Unity members hate Netanyahu and want to oust him. National Unity has traditionally coalitioned with the left-leaning parties, but that's more due to the opposition's general nature as an "Anyone But Netanyahu" alliance, rather than any actual agreement. Meanwhile, because an increasingly wide swath of the Israeli political spectrum absolutely loathes Netanyahu, Bibi has been forced to stack the coalition with fringe far-right parties that the mainstream parties have traditionally refused to deal with. If Netanyahu gets knocked out of his longtime dominant position, Israeli politics are going to reshuffle in ways that are going to be hard to read. My personal guess is that things are going to move somewhat toward the center-right, but not enough to substantially change the Israel-Palestine status quo. The moderate and center-right parties who've been refusing to talk to Netanyahu will happily agree to coalition with National Unity, which in turn will be able to build a strong coalition without needing to bring in every single fringe far-right party in order to cling to a majority. And no one deals with those fringe parties if they have an alternative, since not only do those parties offend the sensibilities of the Israeli political elite, but the fringe parties are also incredibly difficult to deal with for much the same reason that the Freedom Caucus has been in the US House.
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Mar 15, 2024 00:52
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E: nevermind
Kalit fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 00:52
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So does Israel have any left-ish parties that are vaguely competitive
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Mar 15, 2024 01:05
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:So does Israel have any vaguely left-ish parties with any real juice Not really. After the assassination of Rabin, the Palestinian rejection of the Oslo Accords, and the second intifada, there was a huge rightward lurch in Israeli politics because a huge part of the population basically gave up on the peace process and thought "We made a peace offer and they still killed us. There's no point." The Labor party, which used to be the dominant party in Israeli politics for decades, has been getting a vote percentage in the single digits for the last decade. It is the equivalent of the Democratic party winning a majority of the vote with Obama twice and then getting 4% of the vote and losing to the Libertarian party for the next ten years.
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Mar 15, 2024 01:10
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Jon Pod Van Damm posted:I can't say if Tiktok spies or not but I do think other countries actually should keep an eye on America and Americans because of the history of wars, conflicts and other insane stuff they have been involved in. Do I really have to go into detail or can I just say Trump or Israel.
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Mar 15, 2024 01:12
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The Artificial Kid posted:A person can agree with pretty much everything you’re saying about America and still think China shouldn’t have the ability to sway and/or spy on hundreds of millions of minds in the west. I think you need to be specific and not say "the west" here, because you are talking about "America" and you should not conflate the two. The interests of America do not line up with the interests of every other western country. I don't think that America should have control over content seen in other countries but I'm also not going to advocate for laws in other countries to force divestment in google or meta from American control.
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Mar 15, 2024 01:41
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I mean if somebody wanted to invent an app that was half as useable as TikTok they already could. Instagram Stories and Facebook Reels failed for a reason, and it's not because people don't want to watch short videos, it's because gently caress Facebook. I don't think TikTok would survive divestment, at least not in a recognizable form, and I think that's generally the point of this bill. That and old white men who are tired of being made fun of.
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Mar 15, 2024 02:03
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twitter addicts are still tweeting, why wouldnt tiktok have a long decline?
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Mar 15, 2024 02:06
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hooman posted:I think you need to be specific and not say "the west" here, because you are talking about "America" and you should not conflate the two. The interests of America do not line up with the interests of every other western country. Mendrian posted:I mean if somebody wanted to invent an app that was half as useable as TikTok they already could. Instagram Stories and Facebook Reels failed for a reason, and it's not because people don't want to watch short videos, it's because gently caress Facebook. I don't think TikTok would survive divestment, at least not in a recognizable form, and I think that's generally the point of this bill. Why wouldn't it? Noone's forcing them to change their algorithm.
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Mar 15, 2024 02:07
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:That's not what the post says. It says that anyone, including non-americans, can agree with all your critiques and still think everyone's better off with Chinese divestment of TikTok. I see what you mean but the context in which this is being discussed is a law in the US though. This law isn't about China's ability to sway hundred's of millions of minds in "the west", it is about the ability to do that in the US. I don't think that other countries should be passing laws forcing American divestment of meta and google, even though America has the ability to sway hundreds of millions of minds in the world. If you hold the inverse position, that all social media should be controlled by subsidiaries within the country in which it operates, that's a reasonable position to have but I don't think there's any trend for that to happen at the moment. hooman fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 02:42
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:So does Israel have any left-ish parties that are vaguely competitive Not really. The core of the Israeli center-left used to be the Israeli Labor Party, but their last remotely competent leader got assassinated by right-wing extremists for signing a peace deal with the Palestinians, and his incompetent successors completely torched the party's reputation and credibility with a mixture of boneheaded moves, ill-considered military operations, failures to sufficiently placate Palestinian militants, and being far too willing to coalition with right-wing extremists when they didn't need to. As a result, the party fell into a deep decline, and currently holds just four seats in the Knesset. The only other real leftist party is Meretz, but they've always been a small party, and currently they've fallen under the electoral threshold and lost all their Knesset seats. A couple of the Arab parties are left-leaning, but they've never really been politically competitive since Jews rarely vote for them and the Jewish parties are rarely willing to invite them to a coalition. The only other party that isn't openly conservative is Yesh Atid, which is generally considered to be centrist. All the other parties are just various flavors of conservative.
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Mar 15, 2024 02:44
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hooman posted:I see what you mean but the context in which this is being discussed is a law in the US though. This law isn't about China's ability to sway hundred's of millions of minds in "the west", it is about the ability to do that in the US. The American government does not even have close to the same ability to dictate terms to Google and Meta as the CCP does to TikTok. It's just not the same. Note I am not saying they don't have any influence or control at all nor am I arguing that what they do have isn't potentially bad for other countries. But it isn't the same degree at all.
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Mar 15, 2024 02:47
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It doesn't matter. The kids will move to the next source which seems to me to be YouTube shorts. Facebook/Meta/IG is dying slowly. Also none of that actually matters.
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Mar 15, 2024 02:51
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mdemone posted:It doesn't matter. The kids will move to the next source which seems to me to be YouTube shorts. Facebook/Meta/IG is dying slowly. Youtube shorts is complete and total rear end for what it's worth. Garbage.
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Mar 15, 2024 03:20
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Shammypants posted:Youtube shorts is complete and total rear end for what it's worth. Garbage. this is not exactly much of an issue to its target market, all that matters is that the dumb poo poo keeps rollin
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Mar 15, 2024 03:21
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Staluigi posted:this is not exactly much of an issue to its target market, all that matters is that the dumb poo poo keeps rollin It is absolutely an issue. It functions poorly, it has poor algorithms, it has poor social elements, it is low functionality and it doesn't pay people to create. It's trash.
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Mar 15, 2024 03:24
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D-Pad posted:The American government does not even have close to the same ability to dictate terms to Google and Meta as the CCP does to TikTok. It's just not the same. Note I am not saying they don't have any influence or control at all nor am I arguing that what they do have isn't potentially bad for other countries. But it isn't the same degree at all. Snowden did good
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Mar 15, 2024 03:32
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Shammypants posted:It is absolutely an issue. It functions poorly, it has poor algorithms, it has poor social elements, it is low functionality and it doesn't pay people to create. It's trash. that's what government is for: removing the superior trash-feed market alternatives. for freedom
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Mar 15, 2024 03:43
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James Garfield posted:If they're banning tiktok because some of its users support Palestine, why are they willing to settle for ByteDance selling it? Seems like a bit of a cop out They have also canceled a mail in voting initiative, and hired former OAN anchor Christina Bobb as "senior counsel for election integrity". https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/main-in-voting-bank-your-vote-republicans-rcna143291 quote:As part of the layoffs and budget cuts carried out this week by the newly installed leadership team, they are shuttering a program dedicated to mail-in voting, according to The Washington Post. The significance, of course, is that Trump has pushed false claims that mail-in voting is rife with voter fraud since 2020, months before he lost the election to Joe Biden. Ever since the election, Trump has continued to spread conspiracy theories that mail-in voter fraud cost him that race. In reality, there’s ample evidence that allowing people to vote by mail doesn’t have a partisan effect (and if it does, data shows the impact appears to favor Republicans). e - and whatever the hell this means. 
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Mar 15, 2024 03:45
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i know the term that's supposed to be used for this is like "competency degeneration" or something but we're really seeing something more like nuclear competency annihilation
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Mar 15, 2024 03:48
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Oh boy, 'volunteer lawyers'. This is how you end up with the Kraken guy.
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Mar 15, 2024 03:48
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the only poo poo i saw like this was how george w bush slapped conservative lackeys into chief posts to rebuild iraq like they would need to appoint someone to rebuild and manage their entire medical system and it would go to some 20 year old Young Republicans Org hire and everything went to gently caress
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Mar 15, 2024 03:53
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Bugsy posted:They have also canceled a mail in voting initiative, and hired former OAN anchor Christina Bobb as "senior counsel for election integrity". Christina Bobb, who also was Trump’s lawyer at the beginning of the classified documents case. Not a very good lawyer, almost entirely a talking head, but she filed some nonsense in regard to the subpoena and narrowly avoided an obstruction of justice charge herself for other conduct. She’s not just a random woman he saw on the TV, she’s one of his…creatures? Henchpeople? Let’s go with “minions”.
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Mar 15, 2024 04:25
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Staluigi posted:the only poo poo i saw like this was how george w bush slapped conservative lackeys into chief posts to rebuild iraq
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Mar 15, 2024 04:43
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hooman posted:I think you need to be specific and not say "the west" here, because you are talking about "America" and you should not conflate the two. The interests of America do not line up with the interests of every other western country. America is talking about America, I’m including the west.
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Mar 15, 2024 05:50
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