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No sacrificing featherless bipeds
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Mar 14, 2024 09:29
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Question What is the advantage of sending human and melachim envoys over a purely melachim group?
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Mar 14, 2024 09:48
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alpaca diseases posted:No sacrificing featherless bipeds Its the whole fence around the law thing. Which, incidentally is why we can't allow goblins to profane the name of our God by mocking his worship.
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Mar 14, 2024 13:42
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Polgas posted:Question If you wanted to you could ask, and Zakiel did not refuse to go make a deal with goblins, but you did not ask, he simply suggested he only come to speak with any non-mortal beings(and also make sure the humans were not mentally tampered with). So you ask him if he will meet with the goblins? To which he says, "These matters concern humans and human decisions and it is humans who will bear the brunt of the consequences, for good or ill. I think that this is a matter that they should handle." You could push him to do it anyway? And among all the Melachim you can probably find one who would do it if you ask? If you want to do so you could write it in. Diogines fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 13:48
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I don't think we should get involved now, but if we do stick our dicks in the nest can we send a melachim to spy on some goblins for a few days? Specifically watching worship and altar/sacrifice shenanigans to see how sincere the goblins are. And also to see how the sacrifice reacts vs human activity.
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Mar 14, 2024 14:39
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I mean, our previous group of melachim saw the temple being used respectfully and properly, why would we need to double confirm that? unless you think that the time our last group of scouts was there was a play-act? Why do you doubt the sincerity of what we've had reported to us by scouts already?
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Mar 14, 2024 14:51
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Zodiac5000 posted:I mean, our previous group of melachim saw the temple being used respectfully and properly, why would we need to double confirm that? unless you think that the time our last group of scouts was there was a play-act? Why do you doubt the sincerity of what we've had reported to us by scouts already? I mean just spend more time assessing this. Do we know if El is accepting the sacrifices or are they just ignored etc. are they following correct protocol? How is that affecting things. Just get a little.more data than 'they're doing sacrifices'.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:34
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If EL is accepting sacrifice (magic fire burn the offering), then we would need to reassess this completely.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:49
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I think that sacrificing human-adjacent stuff to El may be to him the divine equivalent of the uncanny valley so he just shudders and tells Enkidel to cut that poo poo out it's gross. Also, our society is amazingly HFY and anything that's not human or non-domesticated has to watch out or they get the angry pokey stick. We raised multiple generations of professional monster slayers and now there's goblins and monsters and all that business that way doing weird poo poo kinda sorta oppressing people maybe. I wonder what's going to happen? Didn't we have that one great grandkid that went and started an Ur-Marxist revolution? This is gonna go GREAT!
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Mar 14, 2024 16:01
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If the temple is operating fine, which the melachim confirmed, why wouldnt he be accepting sacrifices from it as normal? I assume everything on that altar is burning because if it wasn't the temple literally couldn't function. I guess I don't see what folks think may be happening that needs to be confirmed? It's a temple. It's running normally for a temple. Why wouldn't El be accepting offerings? maybe I am misunderstanding what "El accepting offerings" means to people. To me that's just 'stuff is being burned on the altar'. Almost no offerings ever result in obvious supernatural signs, especially for a random rear end donut city. the times we see supernatural things are when we sacrifice supernatural things and have done feats of incredible bravery. That's not going to happen in this city from day to day operations. Zodiac5000 fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 16:08
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Does fulfilling voluntary oaths on the altar please El? Oath checklist maybe?
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Mar 14, 2024 17:45
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I'm assuming El is accepting the offerings because the temple remains completely undisturbed. The Goblins aren't touching it as a supernatural political move. The hope is that by not disturbing El worship they can be low on the hit squad list and live at the edge of El's domain but still under his protection from big supernatural attacks... Just like us.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:04
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Mr. Prokosch posted:I'm assuming El is accepting the offerings because the temple remains completely undisturbed. The Goblins aren't touching it as a supernatural political move. The hope is that by not disturbing El worship they can be low on the hit squad list and live at the edge of El's domain but still under his protection from big supernatural attacks... Just like us. This is pretty close to my thoughts as well. Goblin guy sussed out that El is the supernatural Patron of Ur, and that he's remarkably hands off if you do certain specific things (like not messing with the temple). Bochica presumably has some level of capability to defend against the Bnaimokt, or can at least make a hard enough target to go somewhere else. Speaking of that, man, the procurator is going to have some real rough performance reports over the next few jubilees if he's tasked with pacifying our neck of the woods. Between Kelashin, Bochica (if he lives, unlikely though) and us this area it got a lot harder. The Damu is an interesting big rock in the travel paths though, assuming the procurator hasn't made some deal to allow them passage through it.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:21
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All of us are here because the melachim are using all of their emergency plans and throwing them at the wall to see what sticks. Things are dire.
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Mar 14, 2024 21:56
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Well, yeah. Fare is also just a Mel, the Mel of War specifically, who is going full Apocalypse Now against the ocean. Everything is just "how can I slow the sea for a few more years?"
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Mar 14, 2024 22:00
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Also worth noting that whatever is going on at that temple probably means jack-poo poo either way, because that's a Donut town through-and-through, whatever 'temple' was there to begin with is probably just a bunch of king's relatives getting cushy kickbacks and fleecing the public for half of their offerings anyway.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:26
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A Terrible Person posted:Committing repeated acts of potential blasphemy to test where El's limits lie is super risk, but blatantly trying to rules-lawyer God is an ancient tradition. Maybe not in-game, per se, but there's precedent with the Orm and Goliath(?). We'd pop him in the loving nose for that, we very specifically remember from Athar that they're kind and gentle creatures as far as humans are concerned.
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Mar 14, 2024 23:51
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Goatse James Bond posted:We'd pop him in the loving nose for that, we very specifically remember from Athar that they're kind and gentle creatures as far as humans are concerned. You're absolutely right. Good catch. I didn't even think about that. Plus Enkidel would be present for every major sacrifice at the Temple coming from the Sea, so he'd be sure to let others know that whales aren't monsters. Diogines posted:Given how long this is taken we did not want to include dozens of options so we thought we should just stick to the ones which people had shown some support for. Why not a group of only Melachim? Changing vote from K to M. A Terrible Person fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 03:40
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What if we dress a donut rear end in a top hat up as a dolphin and sac that instead?
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Mar 15, 2024 04:01
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Voting is closed. We will try to sneak in an update on Friday, if not, expect it on Saturday.
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Mar 15, 2024 04:38
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Diogines posted:Voting is closed. We will try to sneak in an update on Friday, if not, expect it on Saturday. I was just about to suggest that we send Eliahba (spelling?) as they will probably judge him by both sight and smell to be semi divine, Especially since he has an Angel riding on his shoulder pointing out how tiny Everything Else is compared to her extremely hunky husband. Heck, if we played our cards right, we could have a hands off client kingdom! Suzerain time!
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Mar 15, 2024 05:46
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Dolphins and whales are objectively good sacrifices that would have Els approval due to the hardship/difficulty/cost involved in obtaining them
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Mar 15, 2024 05:58
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If our religious training says dolphins and whales have importance in athar society then they actually get prioritized to be sacrificed to the altar because of how intertwined faith and religion is. Its like fancier idols that move around a lot.
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Mar 15, 2024 11:07
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Yeah animals are totally good to sacrifice, we sacrifice cows all the time. Sacrificing something elusive and rare is probably bonus points, since it was difficult to accomplish. This is why a regular-rear end human sacrificing a cow may be a huge deal for them as it could represent a significant portion of their wealth, but it's basically nothing for us, because we're rich as poo poo and a single cow is like an afterthought. The main thing is, is the sacrifice an actual sacrifice for the person making it or not? Does making it mean they are giving up something very valuable to them or was it a struggle to obtain? That's what El wants. And for the humanoid thing, it literally just is "Does the sacrifice generally resemble a human? Yes? Don't loving sacrifice it then because it may give people Bad Ideas about what is ok to sacrifice." If the effort expended is significant, and it's a thing that El abhors, all the other rules aside from the resembles a human one can probably generally be ignored, sacrificing an incredibly monstrous and "unclean" demon to El is probably gonna go over well because He hates those things and wants them to be utterly obliterated. And even then, killing a powerful Bmokt and sacrificing their idols or a significant piece of equipment taken from them is ok to do, so even with humanoids there's possibly something to offer up. 100 HOGS AGREE fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 17:21
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You are going to resolve the issue of the goblins by ignoring them, for now and telling your people to not go fight them. At least for now. The sands of time begin to fall as time advanced. A great deal occurs in the months, years following the settling of your people at Armanum. 1. You... A. Advance time for what is probably a few years until the situation with the food stabilizes or something Especially Interesting or dangerous happens, whichever comes first, we might fast forward to when Dor is ready to arrive. We'll make a few decisions related to a short time skip and then do it. Diog. Why is this lettered... Diog... WHY ARE THERE LETTERED OPTIONS DIOG?! You PROMISED! You PROMISED we would have a time skip after this! TIME SKIP! I DEMAND A TIME SKIP DIOG! DIOG!! DIOG!!! Look! We said we would PROBABLY have a time skip after this, we never PROMISED and there are some other issues you MIGHT want to look at first! Mostly from envoys from other cities! If you WANT to politely ignore them you can but that might influence your relations with them and half of you are likely to kill the other half, and me, if we don't at least give you a chance to look into some other matters? So we'll put up the option. Envoys from other cities have come, these are simply the ones which are probably more interesting. NPCKidel will deal with the ones which are not either more interesting or more useful, some just came to say hi, essentially. If you want to time skip pick Option A and ONLY OPTION A. If you want to look into other options, pick as many as you want. If Option A has 50%+1 voters we will have a time skip. If not, we will look into the other options starting with the most popular and working our way down, there is no set cutoff yet. If A wins you will turn away all envoys as politely as you can and just say you are too busy.  B. "Kavodel", a city to the southwest renamed itself in your honor when you passed through and invited you to be their king. They were not a great settlement spot so you said no. This offer was met with a mix of disgusts and hilarity among your people, some find it insulting and absurd, others find it hilarious, as usual the conservatives are unhappy and think it is a sign you are getting too big for your britches that they did such a thing. Now an envoy comes from "Kavodel" inviting you to be their overlord and become your subjects. You want to meet with them. C. An envoy from the Free People's Counsel of Bethabon, a city to the west has come to ask for your help and protection from the goblins to the north and the city of Jerashon from the south. Apparently YOU showed up at the city when your people marched through the region, lead an uprising of the slaves and farmers of the city who have massacred the aristocracy and they are now afraid Jerashon or the goblins may come for them, they want your aid but are not offering their fealty, though you might be able to negotiate for it? D. The city of "Jerashon" to the west was in the past one city, if divided across opposite shores of the lake but with only one king, who was also the overlord of Bethabon. They broke into a civil war around the Jubilee when their old King died under "mysterious" circumstances which was probably a poisoning. South Jerashon offers you fealty if you help them win the war, North Jerashon offers you an alliance if you help them win (and also subjugate Bethabon again) and a group of wealthy land owners(but not the true aristocracy) from North Bethabon are secretly asking you to to intervene simply to stop the fighting and restore peace. E. An envoy from Baytelel to the northeast comes in secret praising you as a hero and a man of justice, calling the king of Kelashin a tyrant and appeals to you in the name of Smattas to free them from tyranny, offering to become your subjects instead. F. Ephairos to the east sends an envoy with essentially the same message as Option E, though they don't appeal to Smattas. G. Moabon to the southeast asks for you to send "one of your sons" to be their king and hope you will protect from from Kelashin, who recently sacked the city but have yet to claim it, having pulled back its army to prepare for the Bnainokt on the Jubilee, if nothing is done Kelashin will likely claim it. H. An envoy from the slavers and bandits in the ruins of Mardin to the south come and offer to pay you tribute and not trouble you and yours if you will spare them, you can probably also aim them at whoever you wish in secret if you wanted to make a deal? I. While not a formal envoy from their king, a number of terrified people have come to you from Zarethan from the northeast, even one of their priests, with stories that their king is an absolute lunatic obsessed with ensuring his people live by El's law to protect them from Kelashin and the Bnainokt and their other foes, killing people for the perceived slightest infraction. Meet with the priest or one of the others who fled to learn more. J. Hearing stories of many great deeds, valor and wisdom a messenger from Yeledtov to the east has come to meet not with you, but with Snarls and invite him for a formal state visit as an honored guest. You can also come if you want to as his +1? This option does not mean you are going or sending Snarls, it just means you will meet with their envoy. K. A group of scholars and astrologers from Nephtarah to the northeast have sent an envoy to express their good will and are eager to exchange knowledge of your many discoveries and study and teach at the Laybury, inviting you to send intellectuals there as well. You have been told that Nephtarah are openly worshiping the Melachim. Meet with their envoy. L. ...and finally a HUMAN envoy from Hebronos eventually shows up, after you already made your announcement concerning the goblins, to express the good will and friendship of the Great Bochica and discuss how together the Bnainokt may best be defeated, offering secret knowledge about the Bnainokt as part of a bargain to be struck. Diogines fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 22:05
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A As interesting as L is - alongside the fact that a pretty large number of people sure are coming by to call the King of Kelashin a tyrant - none of these seem like things that we should really be splitting our attention to right now. Unless the slavers and bandits from Mardin have a meaningful amount of food to tribute.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:13
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In order of priority: J I K L E Y'all need to vote at least J if nothing else. C'mon, how could we refuse?!
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Mar 15, 2024 22:16
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Well, uh, hm. okay fine, everything except A, but especially J. They're all interesting.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:18
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A
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Mar 15, 2024 22:21
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Diogines posted:K. A group of scholars and astrologers from Nephtarah to the northeast have sent an envoy to express their good will and are eager to exchange knowledge of your many discoveries and study and teach at the Laybury, inviting you to send intellectuals there as well. You have been told that Nephtarah are openly worshiping the Melachim. Meet with their envoy. So we've got a group here - Can we Ask safely/supernaturally intuit which Melachim they worship, if we have heard of the ones they worship, or if they have been marked, touched or influenced by a melachim in the recent past? For synergy bonuses we have: Law (Sacred laws of El are being violated - Melachim worship) Melachim domain (even if its very fuzzy what that is I bet it still applies) Order (if they openly worship the melachim it would be part of their rules regarding how men and societies should function) potentially Contracts if any of them have made some plea or deal with a melachim, although that might count as not part of the physical world.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:29
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L But only so we can learn what they're up to. Then TIMESKIP.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:34
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DI. It sounds cheap for us to stop the violence here. J. This is hilarious and I want to know more. L. I want more information on Bochica, to better determine if they're an asset or enemy. K. Yes, I'm interested in exploring a research agreement. BC. I'd like to offer some protection, as I expect it'll cost us little.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:35
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All of them except A. We can at least hear them out.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:42
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CIJKL. For I, if priests are fleeing in terror something smite-worthy might be going on. For C, we need to see what’s going on with this fake Enkidel. J, K and L are all self-explanatory. I actively don’t want to meet with H (gently caress slavers), D (sounds like random Donut drama), E or F (we can’t interfere with Kelashin’s cities until after the Jubilee), or G (too much risk of Kelashin loving with our food in retaliation for now). B would make a fine opportunity to grow our empire but I don’t think we want to do that now, so there’s not much to do (and I’m jonesing for a time skip a little as well).
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Mar 15, 2024 22:47
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LJKBD and then the rest in whatever order
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Mar 15, 2024 22:47
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I J K L Dog king! Dog king! DOG KING! Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 15, 2024 |
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Mar 15, 2024 22:50
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AJ_Impy posted:All of them except A. We can at least hear them out.
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Mar 15, 2024 22:53
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Goatse James Bond posted:okay fine, everything except A, but especially J. They're all interesting.
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Mar 15, 2024 23:06
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These guys are all chumps and it is unzepathan to entangle ourselves in their petty disputes. A
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Mar 15, 2024 23:09
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 07:46 |
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I like K or L
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Mar 15, 2024 23:13
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