(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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A partial translation, interesting throughout: https://www.sinification.com/p/why-china-russia-ties-must-be-strengthened Cherrypicking some bits: quote:I. The Nature of the Russo-Ukrainian War most interesting element is the consciousness that Europe has shifted in some way from the Kosovo war/Belgrade bombing Europe that exists in the Chinese FP understanding: a Franco-German resentment of Atlanticism that can be channeled to Chinese benefit, in particular over reluctance to entangle themselves in the post-Soviet chaos: Wang complains about it but is unable to articulate why the shift has occurred, beyond waving hands about 白左 . The fact that he acknowledges the drift instead of denying it is remarkable, though.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 08:21 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 08:48 |
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quote:Crucially, through this war, Russia is reshaping its image and status as a great power. It certainly is.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 09:27 |
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I'm honestly impressed, I don't think I could write a piece that manages to get so many things wrong in one go.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 09:51 |
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It’s a China oriented foreign politics think piece. They tend to begin and end with “how do we work backwards from presupposing that this somehow demonstrates the end of US hegemony?” You could probably go back to 2012 and find almost identical articles that also ramble aimlessly about how THE UNIPOLAR WORLD is ending any second now Chinese century babyyyyyy.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 10:11 |
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It's fascinating how Chinese analysts always see everything as competition between various imperial centres. It has zero ability to consider countries outside of Russia, China and the US as anything but subjects to be conquered or controlled. It's not a great method for analyzing European policy, being made up of dozens of smaller states. Russian natural resources and security guarantees (which history has shown to be worth absolutely nothing) would come at the cost of a complete loss of autonomy and sovereignty. I don't think Germany or France would get much out of becoming Belarus 2.0. Stating that the US isn't a good friend of Europe because it provokes military conflicts in Europe is also surprisingly stupid, considering the article is written in the context of a Russian invasion for the sake of territorial conquest, in Europe. Just shows how off the mark China is regarding Europe, no understanding of European interests at all.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 10:18 |
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poor waif posted:It's fascinating how Chinese analysts always see everything as competition between various imperial centres. It has zero ability to consider countries outside of Russia, China and the US as anything but subjects to be conquered or controlled. It's not a great method for analyzing European policy, being made up of dozens of smaller states. I remember reading somewhere (it was in one of these threads) some Chinese scholar commenting that it's not always easy for Chinese thinkers to understand the politics of Europe, but "we're lucky that we have the Russians to explain it to us" or something to that effect It's an interesting problem, when you have insane authoritarians on one side and relatively sane western democratic ordinaries on the other, apparently it's difficult for either side to understand the other. It's been so with the Soviets, now with the Chinese, also with Russians, etc
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 10:48 |
And people say the US is the only country that fatally misjudges how the rest of the world perceive them and arrogantly assumes everyone else thinks like they do.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 11:10 |
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it would be correct to observe that Germany and Poland would be better off prostrating themselves for Russian gas, in a sense, but also equally correct that China would be better off prostrating itself for American export market access, and it does not
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 11:13 |
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Lot of these comments assume that it is a serious analysis, and not basically propaganda for internal consumption.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 11:14 |
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Xarn posted:Lot of these comments assume that it is a serious analysis, and not basically propaganda for internal consumption. as a concrete point, China went to all the effort to organize a second Europe tour, all for Li Hui to put forth no concessions and instead make demands of European negotiators to drop unilateral sanctions this would be consistent with thinking that European positions are unsustainable and must fold soon insight into the worldview behind this does matter, I think
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 12:00 |
Volmarias posted:Most recent was when the child of some policy wonk who helped write legislation was clearing out their estate, they happened to come across some correspondence. Which, again, explicitly stated that voter ID laws that they were helping with writing were entirely about suppressing certain votes. Could I get a link or name to read more about that case?
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 12:16 |
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Nothingtoseehere posted:And people say the US is the only country that fatally misjudges how the rest of the world perceive them and arrogantly assumes everyone else thinks like they do. I remember at the beginning of the invasion the Chinese embassy in recommend that Chinese citizens in Ukraine display chinese flags for safety. Displaying a total unawareness that Xi Jingping was perceived as a close ally of Putin and that China was seen as complicit in the invasion. A couple days later the recommendation was reversed and Chinese citizens were advised instead to conceal their nationality. Two points about this stand out. One, Chinese diplomats were evidently completely blindsided by the hostility of Ukrainians towards China at the start of the invasion, despite having every reason to think otherwise. Two, the recommendation is taken directly from the ending of Wolf Warrior 2. The movie ends with the main character waiving a flag and yelling, "We are Chinese." This causes both sides of a warring African conflict to lower their weapons, clap, cheer, and let the Chinese convoy through. Nosre posted:Could I get a link or name to read more about that case? Thomas Hofeller is name the gop lackey and Gerrymander specialist. Stephanie Hofeller is his estranged daughter who discovered his files after he died. I dont know fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Mar 17, 2024 |
# ? Mar 17, 2024 13:39 |
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I think the article is broadly correct that Europe is the biggest loser in the conflict but its off base to consider this as something that could have been avoided. To stay economically connected to Russia would have required Europe to server itself from the US led rules based int'l order, which would carry equally severe consequences imo
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 13:57 |
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ronya posted:it would be correct to observe that Germany and Poland would be better off prostrating themselves for Russian gas, in a sense, In all seriousness, what sense is this?
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 14:24 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:In all seriousness, what sense is this? Russian pipeline gas is cheaper than American LNG. That's more or less the observation made by Wang above. Of course, if such economics were the only consideration then China itself would hardly be on a national security bender too.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 14:37 |
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Kaal posted:While the infamous “hanging chads” of 2000 are fortunately behind us now that mechanical voting is obsolete, marked bubbles have given us a lot of problems over the years. User error is common, and there’s many different ways to fill them in too much or too little. The bubbles are also easy to confuse, leading many people to fill the wrong one by mistake (particularly if they are positioned away from the names). Over-voting is a common issue with them, and the judges often don’t have much to go on when deciding voter intent. Yeah sorry this is complete bullshit. Scantron ballots are extremely easy to use and have a very low rate of marking error. My evidence for that is that live in the state of the famous “lizard people” recount and the rate of error was tiny.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 14:54 |
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I don't know what it's called, but my polling place (Gloucester County, New Jersey) uses a system with both a touch screen & a paper ballot. At registration sign-in, they hand you a paper ballot/form. (note: In 32-years, have never seen them ask for ID) In the booth, there is a 30" touchscreen and a printer in a metal box to the right of it. You insert your paper ballot in the printer box, which has a window. You make your selections on the touchscreen. Your selection changes the colour of the field the selected name is in, so it's easy to see your choices. When you are sure, you hit the large, lighted, CAST BALLOT button on the touchscreen. This prints your selections on the paper ballot, where you can review the print-out through the window. If the printed ballot accurately reflects your choices, you hit a mechanical VOTE button, which is not part of the touchscreen, and the ballot gets sucked away & filed. If it is wrong, you call over a poll worker, who will remove the paper ballot while you watch (which resets the touchscreen), destroys it in full view, and takes you back to the table and issues you a new one. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Mar 17, 2024 |
# ? Mar 17, 2024 15:23 |
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Peter Falk posted:Yeah sorry this is complete bullshit. Scantron ballots are extremely easy to use and have a very low rate of marking error. My evidence for that is that live in the state of the famous “lizard people” recount and the rate of error was tiny. Actual Scantrons have a variety of issues and thankfully most states have moved past them. Basically they have two fundamental problems - they’re separate from the ballot, and they have no feedback for either the voter or the judges. They caused big problems when voters routinely misaligned their responses, spoiling their entire ballot in a way that was difficult for judges to establish after the fact. Bubble ballots, which is what Minnesota uses, can work ok but they also can have significant design issues. Indeed often you can clearly distinguish local races from state races simply because of how well the election board adheres to best practices. One of the reasons that the drawn line style is preferred is because it forces ballot designers to use good practices such as keeping the candidate names near the elected position, avoiding misalignment or page jumps, and generally ensuring a clear organization. PainterofCrap posted:I don't know what it's called, but my polling place (Gloucester County, New Jersey) uses a system with both a touch screen & a paper ballot. That’s called an electronic ballot marker. They can be very helpful for folks who use assistive voting devices, and are typically required to be available at each polling site. However they can cause problems as well - in particular if it records the vote incorrectly then few voters actually go back and double-check the minor votes. Nor can they do much about it if the error keeps happening (like if the touchscreen is causing problems). Also the form of paper ballot can be problematic, for example by using a digital QR code that can’t be readily audited by poll workers. And of course these devices can’t be used by mail-in voters, which is a systemic limitation. Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 17, 2024 |
# ? Mar 17, 2024 15:27 |
ronya posted:Russian pipeline gas is cheaper than American LNG. That's more or less the observation made by Wang above. Russian Gas isn't even that cheap. EU gas prices are pretty much back at pre-invasion norms, with a 85% decline in Russian gas imports. Russia always sold their gas just below the margin of replacing it with oil - and why wouldn't they, they wanted to maximise profit to the Russian government. Even before the invasion, Russia only supplied ~ 40% of Europe's natural gas - a dominant producer but not a monopolistic one. Russian natural gas isn't some economic panecea to Europe - unless Russia did actually sell it at cost and let the profits go to European Consumers, rather than the Russian government and fossil fuel companies. And that's as likely to happen as Russia to declare they were wrong and just choose to leave Ukraine. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas https://archive.ph/ypr8b
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 15:50 |
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Nenonen posted:Supposing you are sending the ballot along with necessary documentation that the ballot was cast by a legit person in mail in separate envelopes in a bigger envelope, you have to trust that the people opening those letters handle them properly and just notice that "Peter Falk" is a legit voter and then put his ballot envelope in the right stack which is counted later. Instead of opening the ballot envelope and finding out if "Peter Falk" voted for Putin or not. One more thing…it adds an extra way his vote can be targeted for counting or destruction. It’s one thing for an autocrat to have false counters in the count rooms making up numbers, but with this system someone can target and quickly destroy votes from particular ethnic groups, genders etc before anyone else knows they’re there. If each person puts their anonymous vote in a box with 500 other votes they can be much more confident that their vote has the same chance of counting or not counting as the vote of their rich/“correct” ethnicity/“correct” gender/etc neighbour.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 15:53 |
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ronya posted:A partial translation, interesting throughout: Silly Europe, sticking with the most dominant military alliance in human history when they could have been best buddies for real with Putin. He’s tried everything from affectionate political destabilising operations to loving threats to withdraw reliable gas supplies if they displease him. What else could he have done to show what a good partner he is? Putin You say The price of my love’s not a price that you’re willing to pay You cry In your tea which you hurl in the sea when you see me go by Why so sad? Remember we made an arrangement when you went away Now you’re making me mad Remember despite our estrangement I’m your man
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 16:19 |
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A Mi-8 transport helicopter was reportedly destroyed by a drone in Transnistria. It's only suspicious as hell because a) from previous imagery it appears that these helicopters haven't been used for years and b) there was a camera pointed at the helicopter that recorded the incident, how convenient is that. https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1769394651037835739 It's not really clear what purpose this serves or what the intended audience is. Russians, Transnistrians, Moldovans, Ukrainians, westerners..?
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 19:50 |
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Who are "they", Ukrainians, Moldovan partisans, FSB?
Nitrox fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 17, 2024 |
# ? Mar 17, 2024 20:17 |
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Nitrox posted:Who are "they" According to Russia, Ukraine. But more likely it was a false flag attack for propaganda purposes. Transnistria is a really thin strip of land. If Ukraine wanted to burn some unflightworthy helicopters then they could hit them with mortar fire... but there's just no point, it's a silent non-threatening border. For two years nothing worthy of note has happened there and I don't see that changing soon.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 20:27 |
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Laying the ground work for Russia to have an excuse to step in an "Help" Transnistria? Look how the evil West/Nazis/Ukrainians/etc are beating up on plucky, peaceful Transnistria! We have it on good authority that Moldova is planning to invade and we (Russia) need to up our garrison and station additional BTGs. Yeah, yeah Clancy chat. Edit:\/\/ From what I've seen, Putin is feeling more confident about the war. I'm thinking ahead ahead about 5-10 years when Russia would have potentially "won" in Ukraine and have a potential land border to Transnistria. It's a shaping operation to set conditions for years down the road. Or, y'know, display that casual disregard for conscripts and yeet them up that narrow water channel from the Black Sea. Highly doubtful (like a lot of this) but I just don't see anyone else wasting resources on dead helos Dirt5o8 fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Mar 17, 2024 |
# ? Mar 17, 2024 21:21 |
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How are they going to do that though?
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 21:28 |
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Dirt5o8 posted:Laying the ground work for Russia to have an excuse to step in an "Help" Transnistria? Russia has zero capability to project power against Moldova. Their forces in Transnistria are meager and can't be reinforced. The area is too tiny to attack from, and they're sandwiched between Moldova and Ukraine, the latter of which would gladly help. Black Sea fleet has lost its capability to operate in the western Black Sea. And Russian VDV troops (or what's left of them at this stage) can't fly there under Ukrainian air defence cover. This can only be a cheap propaganda act. My theory is that it's about keeping up a siege mentality among the local population. Maybe to drum up support for annexation to Russia, or not. Transnistria becoming a part of Russia might actually be undesirable for Russia because it would remove all barriers to Ukraine shelling Russian military targets there.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 21:34 |
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quote:II. The Winners and Losers of the War in Ukraine yeah ok i know they just make poo poo up for internal consumption but this is like impressively layered making poo poo up. like there's so many levels to it all leading up to the bonkers funhouse clown hammer drop of "russia's invasion achieved its goals and is reshaping russia as a great power"
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 21:57 |
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ronya posted:A partial translation, interesting throughout: i could pick at a bunch of this, but the central part of this analysis that i find very strange is how it completely omits that the mere possibility of eu membership was a main driver behind maidan and thus arguably the current war. beyond aid, one of the main focuses of the eu/ukranian diplomatic efforts has been continued work to move the membership process forward despite the war and general historical eu member skepticism about admitting new members. it seems clear to me that whether or not membership what be good for ukraine or the eu, there is deep dissatisfaction on both sides that an outside party is presuming to dictate terms to both the eu has four times the population and ten times the gdp of russia, in a multipolar world why would it be willing to have russian spheres play into its foreign policy perogatives?
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 22:24 |
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:the eu has four times the population and ten times the gdp of russia, in a multipolar world why would it be willing to have russian spheres play into its foreign policy perogatives? Not to turn this into another argument about realpolitik, but "multipolar world" seems to mean two things: dictatorships such as Russia and China should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want without any economic sanctions or complaints from anyone, esp. "USA" (by which they mean every western country); and secondly, there is no such thing as EU or "western world", there are only individual countries, and since even Germany, the biggest of EU countries, is smaller than Russia, all EU countries should simply be subservient to Russia. Obviously both of these ideas are, to use the technical term, poop from a butt News from Finland: former Finnish army intelligence guy, colonel Kari, died of cancer last August. Now his biography has been published. Article in Finnish Kari is probably most famous for this lecture he gave about Russia's strategy and so on in 2018 - has English subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw He had cancer already back then which is why he was cold all the time and was wearing a silly hat indoors. Anyway, the lecture seems pretty good as a short intro to/background of the history of Russian strategy.
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# ? Mar 17, 2024 23:17 |
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jaete posted:secondly, there is no such thing as EU or "western world", there are only individual countries, and since even Germany, the biggest of EU countries, is smaller than Russia, all EU countries should simply be subservient to Russia (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 00:31 |
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I don't think they're asserting that this is what they believe, but what a "multipolar world" would entail/describe?
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 00:47 |
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Raenir Salazar posted:but what a "multipolar world" would entail/describe? I think a historical example is the great power dance Great Britain, Russia, France, Prussia ,and the Austrians did for a very long time. It’s pretty lovely for the not powers. Edit: forget Prussia Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Mar 18, 2024 |
# ? Mar 18, 2024 00:56 |
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What if imperialism, but we were the British this time?
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 02:01 |
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Volmarias posted:What if imperialism, but we were the British this time? It’s more: What if imperialism? And the Russians are Russia again, explicitly.
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 03:57 |
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So this time around is Japan going to unexpectedly defeat Russia in a … space battle?
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 04:40 |
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The Artificial Kid posted:So this time around is Japan going to unexpectedly defeat Russia in a … space battle? Finno-Korean Hyperwar but shifted east a few hundred miles
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 05:29 |
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What is this and how does it relate to the war in Ukraine?
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 06:13 |
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https://i.imgur.com/KlYhSM3.mp4 I can't remember enough 90's trivia to figure out which artist had a perpetual gripe against the Spice Girls, but in this analogy they'd be Russia Who says pop culture isn't educational
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 06:14 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 08:48 |
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mawarannahr posted:What is this and how does it relate to the war in Ukraine? It's a Futurama bit where the alien confusedly asks why the larger human does not simply eat the smaller one.
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# ? Mar 18, 2024 07:09 |