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Yeah, not all of the ideas were great. It would also be kind of funny to have a war where humans never (officially, at least) learn what Romulans look like. Or you'd have to have the DISCO S2 treatment by the end where all photos and materials identifying them identical to Vulcans would be highly classified to keep the alliance alive. It does not help that ENT Vulcans are already weapons-grade assholes most of the time.
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Mar 18, 2024 20:32
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It's funny that they did that basically for a throwaway shock moment and now we're all here trying to figure out how the gently caress Romulan/Vulcans being the same species is remotely possible in context
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Mar 18, 2024 20:35
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I expect they would've had Archer et al find out but choose not to tell anyone to avoid jeopardising the nascent coalition. Which to be fair would have made a reasonable amount of sense as continuity wanks go.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 18, 2024 |
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Mar 18, 2024 20:37
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Turns out all of the Enterprise Vulcans were actually Romulans all along
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Mar 18, 2024 20:39
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zoux posted:It's funny that they did that basically for a throwaway shock moment and now we're all here trying to figure out how the gently caress Romulan/Vulcans being the same species is remotely possible in context it's star trek, all humanoids look vaguely similar, and a lot of them don't even have a weird forehead
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Mar 18, 2024 20:41
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zoux posted:now we're all here trying to figure out how the gently caress Romulan/Vulcans being the same species is remotely possible in context This isn't hard. Romulans are Vulcans that left Vulcan at some point after the invention of the warp drive in the last few hundred years. The hard one is the Vulcans that thought Picard was a god
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Mar 18, 2024 20:42
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Sash! posted:This isn't hard. Romulans are Vulcans that left Vulcan at some point after the invention of the warp drive in the last few hundred years. They left during the Time of Awakening on Vulcan, so about 4th century CE. (And In Enterprise Surak's katra alludes to them as Those Who March Beneath the Raptor's Wings) It's possible that they left in sublight generation ships. Or maybe Vulcan had and then lost warp technology during the nuclear wars during Awakening. Maybe the Romulans bombarded the planet as they left and set things back a little. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Mar 18, 2024 |
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Mar 18, 2024 20:54
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Tunicate posted:it's star trek, all humanoids look vaguely similar, and a lot of them don't even have a weird forehead They keep calling us "smooth heads" and frankly it's racist. MikeJF posted:They left during the Time of Awakening on Vulcan, so about 4th century CE. (And In Enterprise Surak's katra alludes to them as Those Who March Beneath the Raptor's Wings) I mean this is exactly my point, we're trying to backfill in an explanation for something that doesn't make sense and the guys who wrote and directed it just wanted a moment when they could have single individual reaction shots of every member of the bridge crew.
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Mar 18, 2024 21:05
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zoux posted:It's funny that they did that basically for a throwaway shock moment and now we're all here trying to figure out how the gently caress Romulan/Vulcans being the same species is remotely possible in context It's perfectly plausible that they'd be the same species. It's harder to explain how nobody KNEW that for all those centuries.
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Mar 18, 2024 21:15
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This is a great example of why prequels are garbage and make every setting worse.
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Mar 18, 2024 21:25
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Powered Descent posted:It's perfectly plausible that they'd be the same species. It's harder to explain how nobody KNEW that for all those centuries. Yeah I guess this is more what I meant
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Mar 18, 2024 21:33
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Either the Romulans never called or wrote Vulcan to say how they were, or they did and the Vulcans just never informed Starfleet or the Federation that they had some kind of ancient cousins out there. Vulcans don't tell the Federation anything.zoux posted:It's funny that they did that basically for a throwaway shock moment and now we're all here trying to figure out how the gently caress Romulan/Vulcans being the same species is remotely possible in context I always thought that Vulcans had some kind of old space empire in their earlier days before Surak, but something went dramatically wrong so all of that was lost. Maybe the wastelands of their planet could be the result of some ancient war. We do know for a fact that Vulcan civilization had been going for a long while before Surak came along, even though modern Vulcans often have trouble functioning if they are unable to follow his teachings. There must have been some kind of serious poo poo to make Surak's teachings seem necessary enough that everybody signed on. Maybe the whole deal with psychic powers was a relatively recent development that destroyed Vulcan civilization, I can definitely imagine a couple hundred Saibocks roaming around a space empire as messiahs and space wizards ending up in cataclysm. But that's more of a 40k plotline. I feel like Gallifrey in Doctor Who is also implied to have been ravaged by some kind of ancient wars in time immemorial that left all kinds of wacky ruins.
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Mar 18, 2024 22:44
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We know what that serious poo poo was, it’s the weapon from “Gambit” and other horrors: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Time_of_Awakening edit: including a lot of atomic bombs so your guess that the Vulcans ruined Vulcan’s climate is pretty likely.
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Mar 18, 2024 23:27
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zoux posted:They keep calling us "smooth heads" and frankly it's racist. A pinkskin would think that.
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Mar 18, 2024 23:35
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Tunicate posted:it's star trek, all humanoids look vaguely similar, and a lot of them don't even have a weird forehead Hey we're the ones with the weird, way too flat and smooth foreheads. It's like our brains aren't even attempting to explode out of the front of our skulls. Hey stupud they must be.
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Mar 18, 2024 23:36
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I remember a novel using the story that the Vulcans that left to be Romulans used their psychic powers to move ships at warp.
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Mar 18, 2024 23:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:I always thought that Vulcans had some kind of old space empire in their earlier days before Surak, but something went dramatically wrong so all of that was lost. Maybe the wastelands of their planet could be the result of some ancient war. That's always been kinda presumed. In Enterprise they were going to depict Vulcan's Forge as littered with Trinitite (nuclear bomb fused sand glass) based on common stuff from the EU, but it didn't work out. And in Beyond the slightly radioactive necklace that Spock gives Uhura is Trinitite from the Forge.
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Mar 19, 2024 00:20
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MikeJF posted:It's possible that they left in sublight generation ships. I'd go with sublight sleeper ships myself.
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Mar 19, 2024 01:08
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Sublight scheming ships
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Mar 19, 2024 01:33
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There's no way you can put tens of thousands of Romulans awake on a generational ship and not have them all murdered by the time you reach your destination.
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Mar 19, 2024 01:39
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That's why Romulans are inherently suspicious. Romulus the Great or whoever tricked them all into cryosleep and now Romulans are suspicious of anyone that makes them go to bed.
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Mar 19, 2024 02:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:I always thought that Vulcans had some kind of old space empire in their earlier days before Surak, but something went dramatically wrong so all of that was lost. Maybe the wastelands of their planet could be the result of some ancient war. We do know for a fact that Vulcan civilization had been going for a long while before Surak came along, even though modern Vulcans often have trouble functioning if they are unable to follow his teachings. There must have been some kind of serious poo poo to make Surak's teachings seem necessary enough that everybody signed on. That could have been interesting to touch on. I've said it previously but they're never really interested in exploring the history of the people around humanity in that way. I just want an episode where it goes into how these single-species empires function!
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Mar 19, 2024 03:10
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counterfeitsaint posted:There's no way you can put tens of thousands of Romulans awake on a generational ship and not have them all murdered by the time you reach your destination. All but one.
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Mar 19, 2024 05:42
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counterfeitsaint posted:This is a great example of why prequels are garbage and make every setting worse. 
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Mar 19, 2024 08:35
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Phy posted:All but one. Nah, the last two would find a way to stab each other in the back at the same time
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Mar 19, 2024 12:39
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Technowolf posted:Nah, the last two would find a way to stab each other in the back at the same time or they're taken out by the seventeen dead engineers who all put a dead man's switch on their hidden ship self-destruct routine
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Mar 19, 2024 12:53
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I always figured Vulcans are an ancient species and that their long livespans, violent past and measured present implies an almost glacially paced social progress compared to humans. They might have sent out sleeper ships or early warp vessels many millennia ago.
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Mar 19, 2024 13:11
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That tracks with some of the ENT stuff talking about how humans freak Vulcans out by both being so gung-ho about, well, everything, and by advancing so quickly.
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Mar 19, 2024 13:44
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counterfeitsaint posted:This is a great example of why prequels are garbage and make every setting worse. The only example I can think of where the prequel is better is (lol) Spartacus Gods of the Arena, and even then the writers still try to jam too much backstory and explanation into the plot. GotA is as good as it is almost entirely because of John Hannah chewing scenery as Batiatus. So I guess what I'm saying here is, if you want a good prequel, get John Hannah.
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Mar 19, 2024 14:03
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Gods of the Arena was also out of necessity rather than "we're afraid to say what happens after 2380"
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Mar 19, 2024 15:38
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Technowolf posted:Nah, the last two would find a way to stab each other in the back at the same time They both stab themselves, but stage it to look like the other did it
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Mar 19, 2024 16:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:Either the Romulans never called or wrote Vulcan to say how they were, or they did and the Vulcans just never informed Starfleet or the Federation that they had some kind of ancient cousins out there. Vulcans don't tell the Federation anything. Isn't it obvious? Vulcans are augments. That's why they're so hyper-emotional by nature and need elaborate systems of self-control. Their planet is so blasted and empty because when the augments took over way back when, it was in a cataclysmic war that ruined most of the planet in a nuclear apocalypse and killed off all the non-augment population. Edit: And the reason the Federation as a whole is so opposed to voluntary genetic modifications, rather than just Earth, is because the whole 'augments hosed up everything' pattern has repeated itself across a bunch of planets in disconcertingly similar ways. It's probably the Progenitors' fault for getting something wrong in their galactic genetic influencing program. Roadie fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 19, 2024 |
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Mar 19, 2024 17:02
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Vulcans being augments would make sense.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:55
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Fair Haven is kins of an interesting episode for really just confirming that holodeck characters are alive as a matter of course, even if the show backs away from fully exploring the ethical implications
No Dignity fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 11:29
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Are they more or less alive than the entity taking the form of an Irishman for Kirk to beat up in fulfillment of his innermost desire?
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Mar 20, 2024 11:32
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I got all teared up at the end of Terra Nova. I'm sure that says far more about the relationship I've had with trust and teamwork over the past few years than it does the quality of Enterprise.
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Mar 20, 2024 14:38
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getting closer to the end of ds9 rewatch and lmao at going from Magnificent Ferengi (great episode, very funny) to Waltz (great episode, less funny except in a very, very dark way)
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Mar 21, 2024 08:29
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dukat just gnawing through the load bearing supports of the ds9 filming quarry like a beaver having a psychotic break
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Mar 21, 2024 08:30
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Watched Samaritan Snare for only the second time ever last night I love the episode but it's absolutely packed with weird poo poo. Wesley saying "Is this before the Klingons joined the Federation", them going on a 5 hour shuttle journey that could have been a 3 second beam down with a story of "picard is accompanying wesley" and then the bit at the end where it feels like they're going to do something to disable the Pakled shields and beam Geordie aboard but they do a weird mist and then the Pakled just give up? It's a lot of fun, but it's still really peculiar. Also man - to me Starbases are space stations but early TNG every single one (Farpoint included) is just a big building on a planet
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Mar 21, 2024 08:53
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Taear posted:Watched Samaritan Snare for only the second time ever last night I love how the whole bridge crew is like "YES GEORDI *WINK WINK* IT'S TOO *BAD* *WINK, NUDGE* YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO *TRICK* *PULLS SKIN UNDER EYE* THE *PAK* *LEDS*" Meanwhile the Pakleds are of course oblivious but even Geordi's like "uhhh yeah I know exactly what you guys mean, I hope"
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Mar 21, 2024 09:09
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