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Fabricated posted:"Run away" sounds cool but I'm not sure how you do that with some groups of enemies because as far as my experience goes it's kinda random if the enemies get ADHD and forget about you once you get over a hill or if they chase you eternally until dealt with. often it's more of a running battle where you're thinning out the horde while on the move eventually you kill the things closest to you and the rest of the pack is far enough back to lose line of sight
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Mar 19, 2024 17:03
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Honestly the only behavior that annoys me is when pubbies refuse to leave at all and just stand on a hill and reinforce that same spot as if they will eventually win the fight. Or just pubbies that want to shoot everything
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Mar 19, 2024 17:04
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:often it's more of a running battle where you're thinning out the horde while on the move Yeah this is what I try to drill into my friends' brains that they don't ever seem to get. It's not just *run*, it's run while fighting. If we're fighting a battle at a base with no objectives anymore, we're wasting time and resources. Circle around and regroup while moving towards whatever the next objective is. I'll often start running to the next objective and look behind me to see my friend or friends standing there firing indiscriminately into a horde with no enemies between us. Regroup and shoot on the move, stand there to kill what you need to if you need to but if there's no objectives there you're loving up if you're just standing there shooting the infinitely spawning hordes. Dyz posted:Honestly the only behavior that annoys me is when pubbies refuse to leave at all and just stand on a hill and reinforce that same spot as if they will eventually win the fight. Yeah, this, lol.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:09
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All this discussion about if rushing or not or having a 'meta' way of playing is lot of times messy because lots of people play in a specific way because the progression incentives. Once you remove these incentives, they play in a more relaxed manner. And in this game the grind isn't that bad, I think in 75 hours you can get all the stratagems + stratagem upgrades + almost all the weapons and armor (and all the ones that matter), so I think the issue will solve on its own soon. Of course you always have the new battlepasses to take in consideration but it isn't grindy enough to be a big problem.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:11
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I just played a mission on Ustotu to do the "kill 2 tanks" personal order. It's hell. There's a perpetual sandstorm that makes visibility poo poo, the heat dramatically reduces your stamina, there are earthquakes knocking you on your rear end every few minutes. All the while you're getting nailed by bots across the dunes that you can't see and you have no cover from. I loved it!
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Mar 19, 2024 17:13
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I will take sand dunes over jungle planets any day.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:20
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I thought destroying nests and factories reduced the enemies you faced at extract? So a map you've barely touched will throw everything at you whereas a map you've largely pacified will lead to an easier extract. This informed my core understanding of the game's strategy, which is to fight enough of the enemies throughout the run that you're not stuck fighting all of them at the end. That's a compelling design that encourages you to make quick, effective assaults through the map, fighting smart battles and getting as much work done as cleanly as you can, and basically kicking a lot of rear end. It's great. Does it..not work that way?
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Mar 19, 2024 17:21
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Jack B Nimble posted:I thought destroying nests and factories reduced the enemies you faced at extract? So a map you've barely touched will throw everything at you whereas a map you've largely pacified will lead to an easier extract. This informed my core understanding of the game's strategy, which is to fight enough of the enemies throughout the run that you're not stuck fighting all of them at the end. That's a compelling design that encourages you to make quick, effective assaults through the map, fighting smart battles and getting as much work done as cleanly as you can, and basically kicking a lot of rear end. It's great. You can kill a few without affecting anything, so the "optimal" way to play is to only kill nests that are in the way of an objective. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Mar 19, 2024 |
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Mar 19, 2024 17:24
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William Bear posted:I just played a mission on Ustotu to do the "kill 2 tanks" personal order. It's hell. There's a perpetual sandstorm that makes visibility poo poo, the heat dramatically reduces your stamina, there are earthquakes knocking you on your rear end every few minutes. All the while you're getting nailed by bots across the dunes that you can't see and you have no cover from. With a lot of co-op shooters I get frustrated and resentful when a mission feels unfairly stacked against the players. I noped out of Back4Blood and Darktide over the feeling that those games routinely took away the players' agency by randomly sticking us in no-win situations. In Helldivers 2, the more bullshit a mission gets, the more fun I have. It almost always feels like my team has the ability to make a miracle happen and snatch a win from almost certain defeat. If the team wipes, it's a great story of standing up against overwhelming odds and going down fighting. And getting those clutch wins when you're sure you're dead feels absolutely epic.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:24
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Jack B Nimble posted:I thought destroying nests and factories reduced the enemies you faced at extract? So a map you've barely touched will throw everything at you whereas a map you've largely pacified will lead to an easier extract. This informed my core understanding of the game's strategy, which is to fight enough of the enemies throughout the run that you're not stuck fighting all of them at the end. That's a compelling design that encourages you to make quick, effective assaults through the map, fighting smart battles and getting as much work done as cleanly as you can, and basically kicking a lot of rear end. It's great. this was the thought early on but some nerds did some testing and turns out it's this deep dish peat moss posted:It's the opposite. Once you kill at least half the medium/heavy nests, the number of patrols that spawns ramps up pretty fast for each additional one killed. And patrols move directly to where a player was standing when they spawned, so killing them all makes extract much harder.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:27
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deep dish peat moss posted:It's the opposite. Once you kill at least half the medium/heavy nests, the number of patrols that spawns ramps up pretty fast for each additional one killed. And patrols move directly to where a player was standing when they spawned, so killing them all makes extraction much harder. Well gently caress, I don't love that.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:27
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Xanasar posted:I will take sand dunes over jungle planets any day. The very first time I played this game, it was with some goons on the Discord. One of them asked "Hey, you wanna see Space Vietnam?". Uh, sure? They weren't kidding. Maybe you can't see the bots, but they sure as gently caress can see you.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:29
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My opinion on going after side objectives/looking for PoIs are generally purely depending on how well the mission is going. If we're at like 10+ reinforcements and getting the final objective done before evac? Hell yeah let's go scour the map and kill poo poo. If we're barely hanging on then I'm going to make the general decision of booking for evac because it's unlikely we'll even manage to take out a base and I like escaping more than dying taking out a base generally.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:30
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deep dish peat moss posted:It's the opposite. Once you kill at least half the medium/heavy nests, the number of patrols that spawns ramps up pretty fast for each additional one killed. And patrols move directly to where a player was standing when they spawned, so killing them all makes extraction much harder. It’s kind of hard to say definitively because we don’t know enough (unless people did more research that I’m missing) about the rate increase you get for being near POIs, which clearing out nests will mitigate. Killing 50% of the nests has a one time increase, but this needs to be weighed against the dynamic POI heat increases to really evaluate it. Also I don’t think it ramps for each additional nest, just crossing that 50% threshold. Anecdotally, I do not feel like I get punished in game for full clearing a map and it will often feel like it’s a quieter push to extract on a map where all the nearby spawners have been cleared. I think the system is a bit more complex in how it plays out than just being able to say “killing >50% of the spawners is bad and will always be a penalty to the players” because it just doesn’t feel like it works out that way.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:32
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WhiteHowler posted:The very first time I played this game, it was with some goons on the Discord. One of them asked "Hey, you wanna see Space Vietnam?". Do player turrets get affected by low visibility? If not, maybe turret spam is the golden path in those situations.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:33
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How does the new major order work? I can’t select the planets we’re supposed to liberate  do we have to liberate every other planet before it?
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Mar 19, 2024 17:34
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ChaseSP posted:My opinion on going after side objectives/looking for PoIs are generally purely depending on how well the mission is going. If we're at like 10+ reinforcements and getting the final objective done before evac? Hell yeah let's go scour the map and kill poo poo. If we're barely hanging on then I'm going to make the general decision of booking for evac because it's unlikely we'll even manage to take out a base and I like escaping more than dying taking out a base generally. This but Ive been trying to convince people to leave the last main objective till the end (within reason). Apparently patrols increase after you complete the main objective too. They certainly start getting heavies like Hulks.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:36
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ChaseSP posted:My opinion on going after side objectives/looking for PoIs are generally purely depending on how well the mission is going. If we're at like 10+ reinforcements and getting the final objective done before evac? Hell yeah let's go scour the map and kill poo poo. If we're barely hanging on then I'm going to make the general decision of booking for evac because it's unlikely we'll even manage to take out a base and I like escaping more than dying taking out a base generally. the other thing is you also don't want to leave side objectives until last because enemy spawns massively ramp up after you complete the primary objectives
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Mar 19, 2024 17:37
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It depends. Some side objectives are easy to get in and out. Last night I was in a mission we stumbled upon the load gun side objective and since we left it for last we weren't able to get it completed before we were pushed out by massive bot reinforcements
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Mar 19, 2024 17:41
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deep dish peat moss posted:It's the opposite. Once you kill at least half the medium/heavy nests, the number of patrols that spawns ramps up pretty fast for each additional one killed. And patrols move directly to where a player was standing when they spawned, so killing them all makes extraction much harder. I'm not certain it's this clear cut. I have had far quieter extracts on near full clears than on ones where we just did objectives and booked it. Especially if there are nests near the extract, an alert will trigger those nests to keep pumping out units and sending them to the fight. Killing objectives/nests increases patrol spawns, but during extract you can see those patrols coming and are set to fight anyway. In practice my group normally will try and clear anything near the extract point at the start of a mission if it's a decent drop point, and it always seems to lead to cleaner extracts.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:43
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Durzel posted:Aren't "Eliminate Bile Titan" missions lower difficulty levels only? Might find that they have less health on those too. I've done this again on a diff 9 anyways, it is a fair bit easier with stun grenades. orange juche posted:Bile Spewers are shitfests to fight when they're piled up at range or behind an obstacle because they have the alt-fire assblaster artillery shot. Bile bugs have shown up in just about everything I've seen above diff 5 btw, and they don't have any light armored spots, except for the rear end of the bug which has over 2000hp, and the spindly middle sections of the legs which are unarmored. Everything else is Medium armor which deflects all light armor penetrating rounds. Which is why impact grenades/grenade launcher/autocannon all delete them, and why scorcher kills them far faster than most primaries due to having the explosive tag.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:43
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:the other thing is you also don't want to leave side objectives until last because enemy spawns massively ramp up after you complete the primary objectives Generally I try not to ignore stuff on the way unless it's something that's a massive pain in the rear end like detector/jammers so I end up getting most stuff cleared in the games I've played w other people that generally follow this rule before finishing the objectives.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:43
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(For bugs) Yeah basically below 5 or so you can have a good team run a full-roster strike unit to hit each objective and every sub-objective along the way. That becomes dicier but still doable at 6. But at 7 up there’s no way to hold your ground. At that difficulty it becomes about skirmishing to draw attention while someone looks for their opening to get an objective task done — keeping your distance from chargers, looking for opps to take out goo artillery with small arms, and saving your big orbitals (like big naturals but deadly) for titans. To echo everyone else I think ideally you’ve got three guys holding down main objectives while one guy who’s very good at getting out of jams procs breaches at the various nests. You might split into two groups if your recon guy is soft (like me) or you want to focus on comprehensively sample sweeps. There’s also the possibility that your recon guy will chance on stalker territory, which will get dicey for them. Normally this sort of thing (kiting and gaming out the AI’s logic to neutralize waves) feels like a kind of poor man’s meta, but with this particular game it feels very of a piece, given that your guys are extremely fragile and underpowered. The lower levels are not just (or not simply) there for easy mode but to allow a different style of play.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:51
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William Bear posted:I just played a mission on Ustotu to do the "kill 2 tanks" personal order. It's hell. There's a perpetual sandstorm that makes visibility poo poo, the heat dramatically reduces your stamina, there are earthquakes knocking you on your rear end every few minutes. All the while you're getting nailed by bots across the dunes that you can't see and you have no cover from. Ustotu is one of my favourite worlds. It it beautiful to look at, in some light has the colour palette of the Dune film poster, and has terrain that makes pitched or running battles interesting. And you can spot the super sample rock from miles away.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:52
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Anyway the strategy change is something you have to mentally acclimate to as you climb the ranks, not just tactically but socially. Because if you’re like me — playing on a controller with ADHD while lots of teammates are on KBM and are laser-focused — you worry about pulling your weight, and at those lower levels “pulling your weight” usually means being at the right place to stand and fire; time moving around is time you’re basically not contributing. That’s dramatically reversed at higher levels. Ultimately I prefer this — the community figuring out otherwise opaque, marginal mechanics like stealth and respawn logic — to something like Remnant 2, which is mechanically straightforward and rather organizes its player community around the modern equivalent of Doom-era wall humping. New ways to play aren’t there to be discovered and gamed out there, but they are here.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:55
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It's also only large and medium outposts the cause the patrols to increase after 50% of them have been destroyed. I think the key is there is no reason to avoid blowing poo poo up that is on the way to objectives, assuming the team can avoid a spiral. If a spiral starts, call a retreat and move on, killing pursuers as you go so the team can reset. There is little point to running off to the hinterlands for 1 big outpost though, since you only increased spawns to little benefit.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:55
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deep dish peat moss posted:It's the opposite. Once you kill at least half the medium/heavy nests, the number of patrols that spawns ramps up pretty fast for each additional one killed. And patrols move directly to where a player was standing when they spawned, so killing them all makes extraction much harder. The worst part is there’s a tooltip that’s says “getting overwhelmed? Find where the ememies are coming from and destroy it! Bug nest? Destroy the holes! Bot base? Blow up the fabricators!” Turns out that’s only marginally true RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 19, 2024 |
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Mar 19, 2024 17:55
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It's not wrong, often a part of those death spirals is the fight is taking place near an outpost so there is a steady stream of trash mobs constantly flooding the battlefield.
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Mar 19, 2024 17:59
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William Bear posted:I just played a mission on Ustotu to do the "kill 2 tanks" personal order. It's hell. There's a perpetual sandstorm that makes visibility poo poo, the heat dramatically reduces your stamina, there are earthquakes knocking you on your rear end every few minutes. All the while you're getting nailed by bots across the dunes that you can't see and you have no cover from. Automatons + planets with bad visibility is a special kind of hell.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:02
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WoodrowSkillson posted:It's also only large and medium outposts the cause the patrols to increase after 50% of them have been destroyed.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:03
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Basic Chunnel posted:To echo everyone else I think ideally you’ve got three guys holding down main objectives while one guy who’s very good at getting out of jams procs breaches at the various nests. You might split into two groups if your recon guy is soft (like me) or you want to focus on comprehensively sample sweeps. There’s also the possibility that your recon guy will chance on stalker territory, which will get dicey for them. This is how my more successful bug runs go. I prefer groups of 2, with one guy having a machine gun or stalwart to clear out the trash mobs. This works because there can only be one bug breech at a time, so if you can get it to pop on group A then group B can run and clear nests relatively safely. Had a magic moment last night with a quick match crew I stumbled into, where we were full clearing diff 7 with almost perfect sample coverage. I got more samples in that operation than in the last week of quick match games. That said I have fully been converted to the machine gun on bug missions. It chews through everything that isn't a charger or titan. Even brood commanders and hive guards get turned to mush. My go to load out is machine gun, EATs, 500kg, Eagle Airstrike. I'll grab a rail cannon strike if no one else in the session has one. Ammo is the only issue but between resupply, recalling in a fresh machine gun, and ammo on the ground I've made it work for me.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:07
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Tale of 2 pubbies: 1 group runs to extract while I check the unexplored area near the extract platform, I find the super samples and grab them. "I'm coming with SUPER SAMPLES, dont extract. Samples are worth more than extract xp" - pubbies board pelican-1 and also kick me???? 1 group runs to extract while I check the unexplored area near the extract platform, I find the super samples, they tell the other pubbie not to extract we're waiting for the super samples. They drop mechs and hold pelican 1 until I get there. Super God bless them.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:13
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I think there's a bit of a distinction to be made about 'fighting minor objectives' like nests and radars, and 'fighting patrols' which is 99% pointless and leads to death spirals. I prefer to go and roadtrip every objective if I can because I like filling out my punch card and seeing all the completed objectives on the summary screen. I don't need any samples or money or XP anymore--been on a little break but where I left off I was level 49 with everything unlocked and a fair bank of samples built up--so it's not really to my mechanical benefit, but on everything but blitz I try to nab all the side objectives because it's fun. What I won't do is pick a fight with a patrol in the middle of nowhere unless that patrol is actively blocking my path and I can't go around it. I've had that happen before when I was doing a solo rambo thing to retrieve samples that got left behind and had to cross a land bridge. Patrol was camped out on the bridge, so that patrol ate an air strike and suffered an existence failure. Maybe 'fight' was the wrong term... Felt badass though. I tossed the marker. They looked at me. I looked at them. Then they stopped looking.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:20
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Anybody who gets less than maximum stars on a mission by deliberately skipping side objectives gets sent to a re-education camp. You have all been warned.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:30
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Ice Fist posted:Anybody who gets less than maximum stars on a mission by deliberately skipping side objectives gets sent to a re-education camp. blitzes tho
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Mar 19, 2024 18:31
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Hwurmp posted:blitzes tho Traitor spotted
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Mar 19, 2024 18:34
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I quick played into a game with 10 seconds until the pelican arrived. We all make it in easily and I’m thinking I’m the beneficiary of all my teammates hard work. Except they didn’t do anything…no samples, mission objectives failed, and -225 for civilian deaths. Only xp was for the full extraction and level 7 bonus. I’ve had some bad missions but seeing 0 stars and Disgraceful Conduct was great. Bless those teammates for loving up so bad lol.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:36
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Bloopsy posted:I quick played into a game with 10 seconds until the pelican arrived. We all make it in easily and I’m thinking I’m the beneficiary of all my teammates hard work. Except they didn’t do anything…no samples, mission objectives failed, and -225 for civilian deaths. Only xp was for the full extraction and level 7 bonus. I’ve had some bad missions but seeing 0 stars and Disgraceful Conduct was great. Bless those teammates for loving up so bad lol. That's almost worse than getting the free ride because now I really want to know how everything went pear-shaped. 
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Mar 19, 2024 18:39
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Friend and I joined a quick play 7 I’m lvl 40 he’s lvl 26 I get kicked for a lvl 50. My friend is laughing in the discord before he bails. Was it because I picked the HMG stratagem goddam everyone else had mortars I wanted to be different 
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Mar 19, 2024 18:44
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Black Noise posted:Friend and I joined a quick play 7 I’m lvl 40 he’s lvl 26 I get kicked for a lvl 50. My friend is laughing in the discord before he bails. With no further context, you were in the right. gently caress mortars on anything other that like Bot Eradicate. EMS Mortars on the other hand are good for everything.
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Mar 19, 2024 18:49
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