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I did really like the new Gi lore. The actual scenes with the Gi felt a little awkward from a pacing perspective (my fiancee was like "hold on why are we following these guys into the ghost realm right now?") but the actual details introduced are pretty cool.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:04
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| # ? May 23, 2024 19:09 |
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I like it a fair bit because it gives the Gi some grounding in the world and answers in a coherent way a lot of otherwise unanswered questions, while also helping to make Red XIII feel actually critical to the story when he otherwise was pretty divorced from everything.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:12
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It's hilarious how many Sephiroth's attacks are just him throwing black whispers at you. It's like "yeah I got these now I'm gonna shoot beams of them into your face"
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Mar 19, 2024 19:17
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ImpAtom posted:I'm pretty sure the implication is what the White Materia is what gave that knowledge. Materia are just big old collections of knowledge and the like, which is how they give the ability to use skills/cast magic, and in Aerith's case the White Materia went a step further. The Whispers drained it (which is why she pulls out the Clear Materia when discussing it, because draining the White Materia is what took that away) and then in the other timeline Aerith had it all back because she had the White Materia there. I've always wondered how that worked with the Soldier Project because in theory a mako infusion that drenches you in planetary knowledge would either make you into a big old wizard or give you random levels in various jobs as opposed to basic physical enhancement. Maybe that's where Cloud learned to dance.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:17
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Caidin posted:I've always wondered how that worked with the Soldier Project because in theory a mako infusion that drenches you in planetary knowledge would either make you into a big old wizard or give you random levels in various jobs as opposed to basic physical enhancement. We see when than happens, it is Mako poisoning. Mako Poisoning is basically your mind overwhelmed with stuff. Presumably any SOLDIER washout is considered someone who couldn't survive that.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:21
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ImpAtom posted:We see when than happens, it is Mako poisoning. Mako Poisoning is basically your mind overwhelmed with stuff. Presumably any SOLDIER washout is considered someone who couldn't survive that. Right. I was asking what you get out of huffing Mako otherwise.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:27
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There is HP Up materia, so apparently it does just boil down to "you can literally be healthier with the right knowledge." Also even regular humans in FF7 are basically anime characters. The turks aren't just immediately crushed by Cloud even though I don't believe they are Mako enhanced. Tifa can use Chi and perform a lot of crazy acrobatics just because she trained really hard.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:27
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Mordiceius posted:I'm still of the feeling that I think these games would be better if they just expanded the original story instead of adding Whispers and potential multiple timeline bullshit. Like I said, they should have taken a poo poo or gotten off the pot. Walking back the original concept of the Whispers and what they were implying with the end of Remake was a misstep cause now the directional whiplash is confusing everybody. Either go whole hog on the Whispers and piss off the purists while having fun with the story and world, or indulge the purists don’t introduce any cutesy will-they-won’t-they teasing at all. But pick one and loving stick to it. And for the record, I played FF7 when I was a mere little child of 9~10 years old and I would have had a loving blast if the series had gone off the rails, so I ain’t no purist.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:30
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I would've hated it lol
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Mar 19, 2024 19:36
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ImpAtom posted:I like it a fair bit because it gives the Gi some grounding in the world and answers in a coherent way a lot of otherwise unanswered questions, while also helping to make Red XIII feel actually critical to the story when he otherwise was pretty divorced from everything. Yeah the Black materia makes more sense too. It never made much sense in the original for the planet to create a way to destroy itself, especially with Dirge of Cerberus showing the planet does have an escape plan if the situation is bad enough
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Mar 19, 2024 19:42
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Is the final boss sequence the first time Zack can actually see the Whispers? It seems like when he makes contact with Cloud he suddenly sees them, just like when Cloud met Aerith in Remake. But before then he just experienced them as "the wind blowing." Not sure what implications that has for part 3.
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Mar 19, 2024 20:27
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The Gi tribe scenes all kick rear end. Nattak seeking counsel from Seto’s corpse and seemingly imagining (or actually getting?) a response moving right into a boat ride over the River Styx to the land of the dead where a group of people suffers in undeath under an endless dream, which cuts into Zack and Biggs talking about their muddled memories and how some force brought them back from the brink to a world that doesn’t seem to be the same. And now Biggs is like also despairing about being alive when he doesn’t think he deserves to be and doesn’t know what he’s supposed to do with his life in what reads to me as a parallel to what’s going on with the Gi. Just a great sequence.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:01
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I'm still not sure why Biggs of all people got pulled into the alternate timeline in the first place. Where Jessie and Wedge not good enough for you, White Whispers?
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Mar 19, 2024 21:04
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Whispers took Jesse to the Loveless dimension where she dances and acts forever.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:08
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Clearly since only Biggs got pulled that means Jessie and Wedge are somehow still alive in the main timeline(even though the Avalanche HQ gang saw Wedge splat)
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Mar 19, 2024 21:09
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Rhonne posted:I'm still not sure why Biggs of all people got pulled into the alternate timeline in the first place. Where Jessie and Wedge not good enough for you, White Whispers? Jessie and Wedge are in the timeline where they just eat unlimited pizza 24/7.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:09
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Maybe Jessie and Wedge have their own timelines where they're the one who survived and not the other two
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Mar 19, 2024 21:12
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I feel like Biggs is tied to the fact that the surviving Biggs we see in the Remake endgame appears to be in a coma.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:13
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ImpAtom posted:I feel like Biggs is tied to the fact that the surviving Biggs we see in the Remake endgame appears to be in a coma. I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be the Zack timeline so it’s the same Biggs
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Mar 19, 2024 21:16
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He does open his eyes in that scene so I think that's him waking up in the other reality.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:16
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Azubah posted:Whispers took Jesse to the Loveless dimension where she dances and acts forever. No, that was the Gold Saucer using AI to digitally replicate a dead actress so they can continue to profit off of her image.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:17
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I just assumed that was pre-recorded
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Mar 19, 2024 21:17
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RatHat posted:I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be the Zack timeline so it’s the same Biggs That's what I mean. The Biggs from the main timeline who ended up in the other timeline ended up there because the Biggs from that timeline was in a coma. Jessie and Wedge in the other timeline are either alive for real or 100% dead rather than comatose.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:18
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I think it might be as simple as Zack says with "Hey man, maybe you're alive because there's something only you can accomplish". That scene between Zack and Biggs definitely didn't make it sound like it was random.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:20
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Caidin posted:I've always wondered how that worked with the Soldier Project because in theory a mako infusion that drenches you in planetary knowledge would either make you into a big old wizard or give you random levels in various jobs as opposed to basic physical enhancement. my original understanding of how SOLDIER worked was that Jenova cells are incorporated specifically because jenova eats mako for strength. So a SOLDIER has jenova cells in their body, those cells eat the mako and provide strength, and because Jenova is semi-dormant and SOLDIERs are selected for their strong wills they prevent themselves from being subsumed and turning into Black Cloak guys. this apparently doesn't hold anymore with the new lore though
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Mar 19, 2024 21:20
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One of the reasons I think the other worlds are "not real" or somehow immaterial or spiritual in nature is the descriptions from Zack and Biggs of how they ended up there. For Zack, one second he's facing all those troops and the next they're just gone. Biggs, meanwhile, describes the feeling of the wind like it could "pull the soul from [his] body." It's like their souls were zapped out of reality at the moments of their deaths and brought Somewhere Else.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:21
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Rhonne posted:No, that was the Gold Saucer using AI to digitally replicate a dead actress so they can continue to profit off of her image. No she is in another dimension, she totally didn't die horribly when the plate fell.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:23
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think it might be as simple as Zack says with "Hey man, maybe you're alive because there's something only you can accomplish". That scene between Zack and Biggs definitely didn't make it sound like it was random. Yeah, but everything he tries fails miserably, and all he ends up doing is getting shot by a random trooper.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:28
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Harrow posted:One of the reasons I think the other worlds are "not real" or somehow immaterial or spiritual in nature is the descriptions from Zack and Biggs of how they ended up there. For Zack, one second he's facing all those troops and the next they're just gone. Biggs, meanwhile, describes the feeling of the wind like it could "pull the soul from [his] body." This is why I think getting the Zack and Biggs scene in the middle of Gi tribe stuff works real well, because the Gi are residing in this sort of limbo outside the bounds of life and death and it kinda feels like something sorta similar is going on with them in this other place.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:29
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cock hero flux posted:my original understanding of how SOLDIER worked was that Jenova cells are incorporated specifically because jenova eats mako for strength. So a SOLDIER has jenova cells in their body, those cells eat the mako and provide strength, and because Jenova is semi-dormant and SOLDIERs are selected for their strong wills they prevent themselves from being subsumed and turning into Black Cloak guys. Yeah, now it's established that power-washing people with planet juice was a thing before Jenova was discovered, adding the cells further increased their strength but also introduced the degradation you see in Crisis Core.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:33
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Yeah, the "Mako Eyes" treatment for Soldier is different from Yo Ho Ho They Took A Bite of Jenova but the two can be layered. Presumably if you have like zero loving morals you could create Vincent Valentine But Also SOLDIER and Jenova And Also Part Nanaki Why Not?
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Mar 19, 2024 21:35
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SyntheticPolygon posted:This is why I think getting the Zack and Biggs scene in the middle of Gi tribe stuff works real well, because the Gi are residing in this sort of limbo outside the bounds of life and death and it kinda feels like something sorta similar is going on with them in this other place. I doubt this is a case. The Gi were outsiders so they couldn't return. Biggs and Zack don't make sense no matter how you look at it. These are definitely material multiverses.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:37
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the cracked timeline being completely out of mako also seems relevant. mako is the lifestream, which is the memory of the planet. it didn’t all get converted to fuel, so where did those memories go? feel like that’s going to tie into the foreshadowed reunion of planets, which, I’m going to be honest, felt very kingdom hearts. disparate worlds all united by an abstract oversoul that the big bad wants for nefarious reasons
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Mar 19, 2024 21:44
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, the "Mako Eyes" treatment for Soldier is different from Yo Ho Ho They Took A Bite of Jenova but the two can be layered. Hojo’s Cetra crossbreeding program coming along nicely!
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Mar 19, 2024 21:45
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Jimbot posted:I doubt this is a case. The Gi were outsiders so they couldn't return. Biggs and Zack don't make sense no matter how you look at it. These are definitely material multiverses. Soooo, an interesting note that may or may not be canon. In one of the earlier spinoff novels, Aerith actually runs into the spirits of Avalanche in the lifestream. They are unable to move on because they feel guilt and misery over all the deaths they caused for seeming no reason with the initial Mako Reactor destruction, and it isn't until Aerith tells them that they saved people's lives in the Plate Collapse and helped Marlene escape that they are able to move on. So "Avalanche can't move on due to guilt" is entirely a possibly still valid plot point. However it's worth noting that this comes from the 2005 novel The Maiden Who Travels the Plane which is one of the like two EU things NOT written by Nojima and which is the one thing never really brought up as 'canon' in the recent stuff and in fact directly contradicts it in several ways, particularly involving Zack and Aerith. It's like the one weird obscure EU thing that appears to have just been shuffled off to noncanon land.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:46
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Man I have the game beaten except the 2 last legendary fights and 3 last brutal fights. I guess I'll clean up brutal first to get the limit break for the last 2 legendary fights. Haven't even tried the legendary fights yet. Just did all the solo ones. gently caress the white wolf but playing the solo battles let me realize I could sleep it or use manawall on explosive howl
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Mar 19, 2024 21:48
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So the “7 seconds until the end” thing. Think that was about Aerith’s death or will it be about something in the 3rd game?
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Mar 19, 2024 21:51
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RatHat posted:So the “7 seconds until the end” thing. Think that was about Aerith’s death or will it be about something in the 3rd game? According to the chapter description in Remake, it's just that Sephiroth showed Cloud a vision of the world seven seconds before its end. I think maybe they're standing on Meteor? So if it's setup for anything, that'll probably be at the very end of part 3.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:55
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Jimbot posted:I doubt this is a case. The Gi were outsiders so they couldn't return. Biggs and Zack don't make sense no matter how you look at it. These are definitely material multiverses. It works thematically. Biggs and Zack are also outsiders, but they're outsiders to fate rather than the lifestream itself. The multiple timelines are probably still tied to the lifestream in some way. It has a general memory of the world, right? So it's not a total stretch that what breaking the timelines is doing is feeding it memories of other possible worlds. Might even be Sephiroth's ploy that loving with the lifestream like this gets him to gently caress with holy and lead to a version of events where he ultimately wins. Obviously trying to guess the exact plot of the third game is a fool's errand, but it makes sense as a way to tie the multiversal stuff in a way where fixing it (and thus, Cloud finally letting go of Aerith) still ties it neatly with something close to the original ending.
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Mar 19, 2024 21:57
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| # ? May 23, 2024 19:09 |
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Biggs was too rugged handsome to stay in the existing universe, and had to be transported to another and left with a look-alike, just like the real Charlie Sheen in our universe.
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Mar 19, 2024 22:04
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