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what about world war z?  it even has Israel in it
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Mar 20, 2024 01:52
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Vietnam is famously a lost war in America .
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Mar 20, 2024 01:53
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euphronius posted:Vietnam is famously a lost war in America . No Vietnam is a war America would have won if not for backstabbing liberal traitor politicians and activists
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Mar 20, 2024 01:53
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Yeah guys, I think this feller is an expert on nuclear doctrine and consequences. 
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Mar 20, 2024 01:55
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lol the us spent the last 20 years slowly losing two wars in the middle east and now the navy is under serious threat from the concept of "shooting back"
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Mar 20, 2024 01:55
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euphronius posted:Vietnam is famously a lost war in America . That's because Michael Bay wasn't making movies for Netflix in the 80s.
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Mar 20, 2024 01:56
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the navy has literally not been shot at for 70 years please give them space to process
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Mar 20, 2024 01:57
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euphronius posted:the navy has literally not been shot at for 70 years please give them space to process 57 years
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Mar 20, 2024 02:18
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corona familiar posted:what about world war z? i stopped reading the book when the writer made it happen that israelis let palestinians in and helped them out it was so utterly unrealistic when you know these animals would be sitting on sofas in front of their fences hooting and hollering watching kids get eaten by zombies
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Mar 20, 2024 02:20
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Egg Moron posted:one icbm can carry like 10 MIRVs and so can have a yield of multiple megatons It's ok, the government that provoked the war has some sweet bunkers to hide in that we paid for and will emerge to rule over us again once conditions are suitable. Doktor Avalanche posted:i stopped reading the book when the writer made it happen that israelis let palestinians in and helped them out They'll shoot the refugees and then be confused when you ask about zombies.
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Mar 20, 2024 02:22
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Doktor Avalanche posted:i stopped reading the book when the writer made it happen that israelis let palestinians in and helped them out The author is the failson of Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks's own Max Landis.
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Mar 20, 2024 02:26
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Covid was literally worse than battlefield chemical weapons, and probably most actual biological weapons, so they just need to turn up the dial on the consent machine. Well you did note it yourself: liberals believe that hitler can just command an entire nation even though nobody wants him in power. In other words it would be no surprise if liberals think they can just conjure from thin air the unity of ww2 americana (post-9/11 americana really) without the dangers of communism and fascism tempting people to vote wrongly. (1) (1) Monarchism is a dead political project these days so the third arrow isn't needed.
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Mar 20, 2024 03:48
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I said a bit ago that the first notification everyone in the US would get that WW3 started was all internet connected infrastructure going down. The US government agrees.quote:The second threat was publicly revealed last month by the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. Officials said that a hacking group backed by the Chinese government and tracked under the name Volt Typhoon was maintaining a foothold inside the networks of multiple critical infrastructure organizations, including those in communications, energy, transportation, and water and wastewater sectors. The advisory said that the hackers were pre-positioning themselves inside IT environments to enable disruption operations across multiple critical infrastructure sectors in the event of a crisis or conflict with the US. The hackers, the officials said, had been present in some of the networks for as long as five years.
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Mar 20, 2024 03:59
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stephenthinkpad posted:The author is the failson of Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks's own Max Landis.
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Mar 20, 2024 04:00
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:lol I am terrified that covid 100% broke people's brains, especially people in charge, in how they think about these risks. you think the people in charge have brains?
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Mar 20, 2024 05:41
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DancingShade posted:I remember being in a pub the night before local lockdown and it was all everyone talked about. Never saw a general population so terrified. The Stand even came up. Then the whole thing was just a wet fart in the scheme of things. In The Stand there are multiple points where the US government almost manages to stop the outbreak, only for someone to sneak away and continue infecting others until the whole system unravels. In hindsight that was ludicrously optimistic.
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Mar 20, 2024 05:43
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DickParasite posted:In The Stand there are multiple points where the US government almost manages to stop the outbreak, only for someone to sneak away and continue infecting others until the whole system unravels. we can be like they are
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Mar 20, 2024 06:02
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Owlbear Camus posted:these people should be subjected to the clockwork orange treatment of a double feature of threads and the day after. if they aren't cured by that powers of ten shot of steve guttenberg in the gymnasium respice ward then there's no helping them Don't forget When the Wind Blows
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Mar 20, 2024 06:24
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Putting on my "crackpot tin foil & utterly insane techno thriller hat" for a moment about the discussion about nuclear war... If China really, really wanted to use nuclear weapons in a first strike capacity (I think the CCP policy is officially "No first use of nukes" from memory, but indulge me) and for some bizarre reason, felt they had absolutely, no other choice but to use nukes in order to take Taiwan with no other countries interfering (they don't need nukes to physically land troops on Taiwan, I know), wouldn't they do a public demonstration against non nuclear US allies, to avoid a proper nuclear exchange? Something like set off a few nukes 30km above Japanese or Australian major cities for example? High enough for the general public to visibly see but not get badly hurt*, as there would be relatively little fallout at that altitude. There'd be mass panic and strong political demands in those countries to immediately accede to Chinese plans. Likewise the US public & government would be panicing over the risk of nuclear weapons landing on their own home soil, so they probably wouldn't give two shits about helping Taiwan, or retaliating for Japan/Australia: who cares what happens in non-American countries, only the US really counts, right? The US probably won't retaliate with its own immediate nuclear strike for non-US targets, especially if they see only two or three nukes heading for non-nuclear armed countries. Also very unlikely if the CCP promptly contact them straight after launch with a "This is a very high altitude airburst warning only, no US cities or bases are targeted now, but they will be next, if you stand in our way by supporting or giving assistance to Taiwan or Taiwanese allies" message, followed by an immediate international broadcast of "Next time, we'll directly nuke the major cities & bases of anyone, including the US mainland itself, if you militarily help Taiwan. Leave them & us alone or face nuclear war!" I don't think the US government or people would give two shits about responding in kind to an "nuclear attack" on non-US countries, especially with no real casualties to speak of. What could America even do in response? Have a single high altitude airburst from a stealth bomber over Beijing saying "Two can play at that game, we'll support Taiwan militarily but with no nukes, if you don't want a nuclear response, call off the invasion or failing that, stick to conventional weapons only, no WMDs." Not bloody likely! Destroy the Three Gorges Dam with conventional weapons? No-one was directly hurt apart from a nasty sun-burn, and this didn't even target US citizens, why help non-Americans just to risk nuclear war? Besides, Three Georges Dam bursting will definitely kill tens of thousands and the Chinese will absolutely respond in kind. Better just leave Taiwan to fend for itself then! * Flash blindness, possible higher cancer risk, mass panic & accidents not withstanding, of course
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Mar 20, 2024 07:51
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it's much easier to just continue to let the usa defeat itself
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Mar 20, 2024 08:03
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lol detonate some warning nukes over the city
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Mar 20, 2024 08:05
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Livo posted:Putting on my "crackpot tin foil & utterly insane techno thriller hat" for a moment about the discussion about nuclear war... Just drive the nukes over the border in a shipment of new cars from Mexico or something. It's all dumb because China isn't going to attack Taiwan unless the USA militarily seizes it first. Then China will liberate it. And bring democracy. I think that's how it goes. Having a super duper air defence network is nice and all but if the front gate is open and all the lights are off what's the point? DancingShade has issued a correction as of 08:12 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 08:10
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Livo posted:Putting on my "crackpot tin foil & utterly insane techno thriller hat" for a moment about the discussion about nuclear war... i think the general understanding is that nobody is ever going to assume that your use of nuclear weapons is going to be limited. if you are china, and you launch a couple of nukes, the US is not going to sit there and wait long enough to see that oh, they were warning shots and oh, they were only aimed at US allies and not the US itself. they are just going to launch at you. same goes for whoever: if you launch nuclear missiles in the direction of a country with nuclear missiles, they are going to launch missiles back at you long before they actually confirm what you aimed at. like all you get is "are they heading for India or Russia? No? then it's time", and even taking into account the dire state of them enough american missiles are going to work that this would be a total disaster. the one thing that pretty much everyone, no matter how dumb or crazy(with a few notable exceptions), managed to agree on for the past several decades is that launching nukes at someone who has nukes is going to be the end of you and everyone is sufficiently twitchy enough that launching them at anyone who doesn't have nukes isn't worth the risk that someone who has nukes will think you're aiming for them, because they are not gonna wait for you to explain yourself
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Mar 20, 2024 08:24
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Yeah that's right. The moment someone launches a nuke, it's loving on, because nobody is going to wait around to see if it's just a single launch, or if it's going to land somewhere "safe" or whatever.
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Mar 20, 2024 08:26
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and no, calling the president and going "hey btw this isn't a for real nuclear strike on you it just looks like one" isn't going to work because you'd say the same thing if you were trying to catch them with their pants down and get off a first strike without retaliation
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Mar 20, 2024 08:27
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Jimmy Dore is saying due to failed recuiting goals for the US military that legislation is being passed to allow undocumented migrants to join up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQUos2aMwlY Don't worry I'm sure it'll be fiiiiiine.
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Mar 20, 2024 08:31
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from p/i lol https://twitter.com/revolutionaryem/status/1769860661327368453
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Mar 20, 2024 09:04
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Why would you go nuke, its stupid. Just keep the war intensity low and slowly grinding away. That's the ww3 style. If China wants to start war with US now they would build 3 more islands in SCS and wait for the US to start shooting first. stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 10:04 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 10:01
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stephenthinkpad posted:Why would you go nuke, its stupid. Just keep the war intensity low and slowly grinding away. That's the ww3 style. But Hollywood... Michael Bay... Just play this soulless background epic music over some CGI. That's what people want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU7SGn0MeP0
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Mar 20, 2024 10:04
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Anyway, the situation in the Pacific is going well in China's favor without firing a shot. The North Koreans seem to be modernizing as well which is only going to put more pressure on the south, and Japan isn't in a situation where it can really re-arm more fully than it already has budgeted. The Australians are a non-factor, and Taiwan is amidst political gridlock. The US Navy between its shipyard issues and the Middle East and Europe isn't going to be able to fully "pivot" while the PLAN is only expanding further. Push comes the shove China may further economic connections with Russia on advantageous terms but the Russians seem to be able to take care of themselves at this point. Otherwise, European NATO is not only not ready for a war but in particular large parts of NATO clearly have only been giving lip service to the Ukrainian conflict. Northern Europe may actually care but, beyond the Poles and the French...the UK, Baltic States, the Nordic states, and even the Germans wouldn't able to contribute more than token forces. The US doesn't want to fight the Russians directly, either. The only real hope is just that the Russians are so terrified they back off from a single uniformed NATO soldier and leave Ukraine to its rightful owners. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 10:52 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 10:23
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Died with nuclear radiation, not of nuclear radiation.
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Mar 20, 2024 10:42
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I read World War Z and I get a strong feeling Max might be a straight-up anti-communist, plus I saw him on an episode of deadliest warrior and drat Mel what happened
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Mar 20, 2024 10:48
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Jon Pod Van Damm posted:it's much easier to just continue to let the usa defeat itself Oh definitely! It'd be a much more pragmatic approach of letting US old/woefully inadequate infrastructure collapse under itself. They have no need to do anything else at this stage, just watch & laugh. I was just thinking of a crazy scenario which if nuclear weapons are actually going to be used, it's probably be a carefully measured step at non-nuclear armed countries who can't retaliate, before the "Let's all nuke all the cities for total Armageddon funsies" option. I'm also speculating as the Australian Opposition Leader (who strangely is silent about our strategic fuel reserve being located entirely in the US, since his own party agreed to this in 2020 lmao) has been beating the war drums in the media lately and demanding a firmer hard-line om the government on China, since he thinks there'll be no consequences or retaliation for our trade dependent island country whatsoever. My utter crackpot, tin foil hat rationale behind my crazy idea was this: - "Won't all nuclear countries immediately launch straight away the second they get an initial warning first?" In theory, "yes" but in practice, you need to make very sure it's a) not a computer glitch, like Petrov experienced with his malfunctioning Soviet ICBM early warning systems and b) you need that very short window of time to know what general kind of attack it is, so you can very quickly choose what kind of retaliation you want, before giving the launch order. Russia's launching a Counter Force Attack? Respond in kind. Russia's launching a Counter Value Attack? Respond in kind, and then we're even more hosed than usual in that particular scenario, but I digress. - Russia, US, UK, France, India, Pakistan & China all have early warning systems that can pinpoint the exact trajectory & impact destination of ICBMs after just a few minutes once their precise orbits are plotted. Depressed trajectories from Submarine Launched Ballistic Missiles have shorter warning times depending on their target & sub location at launch. The US has roughly 15-20 minutes warning of a nuclear strike before impact from Russia/China. Maybe 10 minutes if there's a ballistic sub off the coast targeting certain bases or cities. They'll know the precise impact destinations after a few minutes, then they have a few minutes after that, to authorise their own nuclear response launches. This time-frame is roughly the same for most nuclear countries, apart from India & Pakistan, as if they nuke each other, their warning times will be shorter due to geography. - Petrov ignored his malfunctioning Soviet early warning systems in the 1980s, which showed America had fired five ICBMs at the USSR. Why? Because he correctly thought "Why the hell would America only launch five nukes at us in a surprise first strike? Wouldn't they launch hundreds in a real surprise strike? It must be a glitch." He was right, it was just a glitch. China has 200+ nukes, they wouldn't "only" fire a few as a first strike at the US unless there's an computer error or deliberate reason. The "Are you sure it's not a computer glitch, China wouldn't fire only five ICBMs in a surprise strike at America surely? Double & triple check it's not just a malfunction or glitch on top of your normal procedures!" conversation might occur, since Petrov had this same thing happen to him. Most nuclear armed countries would probably do additional confirmation checks, on top of what they normally do to properly confirm it's a real launch anyway, since five or less nukes isn't what they'd be trained to expect, whilst also waiting very anxiously on high alert to get the final impact coordinate confirmation once it can be calculated. Nukes are a deterrent, you don't casually use them at any whim unless you think - After a very, very tense few minutes and DEFCON 1 warning with all nuclear silos & subs on max alert ready to launch upon receiving the launch order, the US would see there's no weapons targeting their bases or territories. They'd still be on high alert but not a "Launch nukes any second now" alert. Russia would see the launch, be on maximum alert with their nuclear weapons , until it was clear that Chinese weapons aren't targeting Russian territory. Ditto for the UK, France etc. Having said all that, don't get me wrong, it'd be a VERY tense situation until all those countries confirm missiles aren't heading for them. Tense people can do very stupid or silly things, so there's the very real risk of something panicing & loving up, so I sincerely hope it never happens at all. If China publicly announces to the world mere seconds after launch, it's aimed at Japan/Australia in a high altitude airburst mode only, then that might delay an immediate response/cause enough confusion, to encourage political leaders to actually listen and verify their own early warning systems target confirmation instead of blindly launching (in theory the leaders should be already waiting for the impact locations to be confirmed, so they can quickly authorise a Counter Force/Counter Value Attack anyway, a public message might encourage them even more to actually listen to the confirmation targets before reacting). It could be viewed as a stalling trick however, so it could also catastrophically backfire and cause someone to panic launch before their early warning systems independently confirm it's not heading to them. - I don't think nuclear armed countries are going to nuke each other over non-nuclear countries getting high altitude air-bursts, even if they are under a nuclear umbrella protection treaty. If nukes land in the cities themselves, maybe, but high in the air as a warning? If the US is going to immediately launch nuclear weapons, even in a Counter Force option, over a single high altitude nuke going off in Japan or Australia and then they get hit in retaliation, I'll be very pleasantly surprised/stunned at America's altruism, before I then die horribly with billions of others: because America sacrificing themselves as a nation in a genuine show of altruism for foreign countries is unbelievable. I genuinely hope it'll never happen, and also that conventional conflict between China & Taiwan never happens as things will be hosed even in a no nuke, best case scenario, but I was brainstorming ideas from a "If for whatever crazy reason we decide to use nukes, this might persuade others to back off before we all go ham with nukes on each other's cities" perspective.
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Mar 20, 2024 11:23
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Remember when the US got very into variable yield, which they even called dial-a-nuke, on the absolutely reasonable assumption that Russians would wait until a nuke explodes on their soil, then measure how big of a nuke it was, to then decide how to respond? And that if it is a low enough yield, Russia will just say "oh fair enough"
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Mar 20, 2024 11:25
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For that exact purpose, yes, the dial a yield nuke is utterly idiotic. From a "You might want the biggest possible bang depending on how well protected the target is, or a smaller bang might be sufficient, depending on the mission, so having some flexibility in a 'one size fits all' in a tactical nuke weapon is better. Otherwise, you have to field ten different yield nuclear bombs or missiles just to suit different sized targets" sense, then it's slightly less nonsensical. Now, both NATO & the Soviets planned on using tactical nuclear weapons in their war plans extensively, so the fear of using tactical nukes just very quickly escalating to strategic nuclear weapons being used is a real & valid concern Livo has issued a correction as of 11:47 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 11:40
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Remember when the US got very into variable yield, which they even called dial-a-nuke, on the absolutely reasonable assumption that Russians would wait until a nuke explodes on their soil, then measure how big of a nuke it was, to then decide how to respond? And that if it is a low enough yield, Russia will just say "oh fair enough" When you punch someone in the head its a very reasonable assumption that they'll first seek medical advice, have a dental exam and have an MRI before choosing what if any retaliation they might unleash, up to and including punching back at least once.
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Mar 20, 2024 11:40
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use nukes to write SURRENDER DOROTHY in the skies of kansas
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Mar 20, 2024 11:54
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why would China bother with nukes they would just randomly shut down infrastructure with cyber attacks. they wouldn’t be 100% successful, but they don’t have to be no explosion, no easy attributable source without a long technical explanation that could be dismissed or argued over, with abundant finger pointing domestically and public anger at government for not fixing broken infrastructure. infrastructure repairs have been shown to be slow and expensive, with limited resources to be able to handle transformer repairs or major water works. all of this perpetrated on a populace that is in general distrusting of one another, largely unwilling to pursue collective action, and prone to individual violence with a massive amounts of firearms it would be chaos, with not a single shot fired (by China at least)
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Mar 20, 2024 12:03
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:why would China bother with nukes Indeed, that would be the very smart & pragmatic option. I'd say the West should be taking real threats of cyber-attacks on civil & military infrastructure much more seriously, but if the recommendations of the Australian Defence Strategic Review 2023 are anything to go by for Western allies, we're screwed. All it says for cyber-security is just six mentions in 110 pages and those literally just say "We should increase our cyber-security" 
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Mar 20, 2024 12:22
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Danann posted:(1) Monarchism is a dead political project these days so the third arrow isn't needed. 
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Mar 20, 2024 12:28
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