|
Does anybody have a guess why Alina Habba's name is still on the appeal documents in New York? I thought Trump was mad at her now.
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 01:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:48 |
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Huh? That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. Uh, what? The absurd examples aren’t supposed to make sense. They’re supposed to be absurd because the implications of the ruling are absurd. They aren’t supposed to be a real scenario because a president that has no limits isn’t a president and this would no longer be the United States it would be some other thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 03:12
|
|
|
Murgos posted:this would no longer be the United States it would be some other thing. I’m reconsidering my position, hmm.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 03:31
|
|
|
Murgos posted:Uh, what? The absurd examples aren’t supposed to make sense. They’re supposed to be absurd because the implications of the ruling are absurd. Even Trump's argument of "an ex-president can't be prosecuted for official presidential acts unless he was impeached" is a pretty far cry from "the president has no limits".
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 03:46
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Even Trump's argument of "an ex-president can't be prosecuted for official presidential acts unless he was impeached" is a pretty far cry from "the president has no limits". Only when separated from his other argument of "Everything a president does during his term is an official presidential act"
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 04:40
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:They signed onto it because it's completely unexplored jurisprudence where current SC members can put a permanent stamp into the history books. It's catnip. I'm sure Trump's lawyer will be struggling hard to figure out where Gini Thomas wants to go on vacation this year.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 07:59
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:Does anybody have a guess why Alina Habba's name is still on the appeal documents in New York? I thought Trump was mad at her now. No, he's just hanging her out to dry in New Jersey. Trump world are gluttons for getting hit by the bus, getting up, dusting themselves off and then thanking Trump and asking for another.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 13:42
|
|
|
Her best shot at revenge is to continue acting as his lawyer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 13:47
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Even Trump's argument of "an ex-president can't be prosecuted for official presidential acts unless he was impeached" is a pretty far cry from "the president has no limits". He’s also making the argument that “trying to continue being president” counts as an official act, though, which would make it okay to assassinate people as long as it helps you maintain power. The strange future where courtrooms argue over how useful someone’s murder was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 13:52
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Even Trump's argument of "an ex-president can't be prosecuted for official presidential acts unless he was impeached" is a pretty far cry from "the president has no limits". The one limit you can come up with is the political one that requires 60 votes in the senate? Okay. Try again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 14:11
|
|
|
Pigbuster posted:He’s also making the argument that “trying to continue being president” counts as an official act, though, which would make it okay to assassinate people as long as it helps you maintain power. And once again I find myself asking... Trump KNOWS that he's not the president RIGHT NOW, and "just" the political rival. If the Supreme Court does say "A president has full immunity from everything they do in office", there's nothing stopping Biden from ordering Seal Team Six to take out Trump. He HAS to know that, right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 14:48
|
|
|
Murgos posted:The one limit you can come up with is the political one that requires 60 votes in the senate? Okay. Try again. 67 votes. And let's not kid ourselves: had he been convicted and removed, they would now be arguing that double jeopardy attaches and he can't be prosecuted. They're not arguing in good faith but that doesn't matter much anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 14:54
|
|
|
Randalor posted:And once again I find myself asking... Trump KNOWS that he's not the president RIGHT NOW, and "just" the political rival. If the Supreme Court does say "A president has full immunity from everything they do in office", there's nothing stopping Biden from ordering Seal Team Six to take out Trump. When you figure out how to get a narcissist to understand that they have responsibility for actions they take that have negative consequences on themselves, please let us know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:01
|
|
|
Randalor posted:And once again I find myself asking... Trump KNOWS that he's not the president RIGHT NOW, and "just" the political rival. If the Supreme Court does say "A president has full immunity from everything they do in office", there's nothing stopping Biden from ordering Seal Team Six to take out Trump. Decorum!
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:03
|
|
|
mdemone posted:67 votes. And let's not kid ourselves: had he been convicted and removed, they would now be arguing that double jeopardy attaches and he can't be prosecuted. Oops, it turns out Congress never passed a law stating the exact punishment or remedy for the exact crime for which he was being impeached and later convicted by the Senate! Oh, well! The whole argument is absurd. You cannot run a country with loving Calvinball. If Presidents have total immunity no matter what then we do not have a president, we have a king. I seem to recall we fought a war on that topic once, long ago.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:06
|
|
|
Ynglaur posted:The whole argument is absurd. You cannot run a country with loving Calvinball. *in full British imperial regalia* [posh laughing noises]
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:23
|
|
|
Randalor posted:there's nothing stopping Biden from ordering Seal Team Six to take out Trump. kidding aside, the very nature of our two political factions means that biden is both less likely to order a political assassination, and less likely to have such an order carried out, than trump would be - and trump and his people know that and are counting on it. units like seal team six naturally tend towards murderous aggro types who are much more likely to be sympathetic to a trump type than any woke communist democrat, and the us military's command officers (who are currently at least somewhat competent and independent of the political parties) will be purged in a second trump admin and replaced with loyalists who would not refuse such orders from trump. Trump's argument is predicated on the assumption that, in practice, Biden will be unwilling and/or unable to use the military to hurt trump, even if there were no legal restrictions against it. (imo, that assumption is probably correct!)
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:26
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:*in full British imperial regalia* [posh laughing noises] Prime post/AV combo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:28
|
|
|
Randalor posted:And once again I find myself asking... Trump KNOWS that he's not the president RIGHT NOW, and "just" the political rival. If the Supreme Court does say "A president has full immunity from everything they do in office", there's nothing stopping Biden from ordering Seal Team Six to take out Trump. He does not approach things strategically or with great planning. He's a narcissist who focuses on the immediate. Right now, he argues that he needs immunity. Once he has that, and the charges are cleared, he'll immediately argue that Biden shouldn't have immunity, and must be held fully accountable for all of these made-up crimes, because he doesn't care about being consistent or rational or ethical. Trump needs now what he needs now, and if that fucks him later, that's a problem for him later. He has always operated in that way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:29
|
|
|
Murgos posted:The one limit you can come up with is the political one that requires 60 votes in the senate? Okay. Try again. No? I don't know how many times I have to say it, but the threat of criminal prosecution is not one of the major limits on a president's power, and never has been. And if it were, it'd be a pretty loving bad one, given that no president has ever been criminally prosecuted even when they did things that broke US law. Randalor posted:And once again I find myself asking... Trump KNOWS that he's not the president RIGHT NOW, and "just" the political rival. If the Supreme Court does say "A president has full immunity from everything they do in office", there's nothing stopping Biden from ordering Seal Team Six to take out Trump. There's lots of things stopping Biden from taking out Trump with SEAL Team Six. While I can't actually prove this, I feel extremely confident in saying that no president has ever said to themselves "Hmmm, I could just assassinate my opponent for reelection, but I don't want to be vulnerable to criminal prosecution after my term ends". That is not a thing that actually happens. Trump's argument is dumb bullshit that will no doubt be slapped down by the court, but that doesn't mean that prosecutors are the one and only thing between us and full-on presidential dictatorship.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:34
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:
Assuming Nixon ordered the Watergate break in, he was sufficiently afraid of consequences to deliberately order a cover up. OTOH, things were different then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:45
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:No? I don't know how many times I have to say it, but the threat of criminal prosecution is not one of the major limits on a president's power, and never has been. Alternatively, every president has understood that they may face criminal penalties for their actions and have refrained from pushing the limits of what could be excused under the nebulous rules of decorum. It’s pretty clear Tricky Dicky thought he had gone to far otherwise he wouldn’t have resigned so that Ford could pardon him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:46
|
|
|
Murgos posted:Alternatively, every president has understood that they may face criminal penalties for their actions and have refrained from pushing the limits of what could be excused under the nebulous rules of decorum. Nixon only resigned because there were enough Republicans willing to convict him during an impeachment proceeding. He didn't resign because he was caught, he resigned because he didn't think he could get away with it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 15:57
|
|
|
 https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-fulton-judge-allows-trump-others-to-appeal-fani-willis-removal-ruling/Z7NZGYJVXRDGDFEBMCWPSTBIEQ/
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 16:08
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:No? I don't know how many times I have to say it, but the threat of criminal prosecution is not one of the major limits on a president's power, and never has been. Might be one of those "unwritten things" where no one else has ever done it before because of course no one else has done it before, and then comes an oblivious buffoon like Trump who says I'm gonna do this and everyone else just shrugs because they actually don't know what to do in a situation where a president just starts murdering political opponents.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 16:08
|
|
|
gregday posted:
Ok, so lets just stop following Georga for the next year, because nothing will be happening with THAT case. Assuming the case doesn't get dismissed later.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 16:35
|
|
|
I'm annoyed we haven't heard anything new from Carroll/Kaplan in recent days. I demand Defamation III.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 16:40
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:I'm annoyed we haven't heard anything new from Carroll/Kaplan in recent days. I demand Defamation III. or defenestration I?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 16:41
|
|
|
Pretty sure the court is at street level, but then Trump looks like he could break his knees going above a slow shuffle.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
Cimber posted:Ok, so lets just stop following Georga for the next year, because nothing will be happening with THAT case. Assuming the case doesn't get dismissed later. Coward of a judge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:02
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Assuming Nixon ordered the Watergate break in, he was sufficiently afraid of consequences to deliberately order a cover up. OTOH, things were different then. The consequence Nixon feared was losing the presidency. He covered it up to avoid the revelation of an embarrassing political scandal right in the middle of his reelection campaign. If he hadn't covered it up, then the full impact of the scandal would have broken in fall 1972. Instead, his obstructionism managed to delay the most damaging revelations until well after Election Day...though, in the end, the coverups are what doomed him, since they encouraged deeper investigations that eventually unearthed far more damaging stuff that probably wouldn't have come out otherwise. Murgos posted:Alternatively, every president has understood that they may face criminal penalties for their actions and have refrained from pushing the limits of what could be excused under the nebulous rules of decorum. Nixon resigned because he was going to be impeached anyway, as his own party had openly turned against him in Congress. Faced with the inevitability of losing the presidency, he chose to make his exit on his own terms so that he could immediately start working on rebuilding his reputation. There's no indication that the pardon was actually connected to the resignation in any way. While there were many accusations of a behind-the-scenes bargain at the time, no real evidence has ever emerged in all those decades since. Every indication so far is that Ford actually really was just that stupid and naive. Madkal posted:Might be one of those "unwritten things" where no one else has ever done it before because of course no one else has done it before, and then comes an oblivious buffoon like Trump who says I'm gonna do this and everyone else just shrugs because they actually don't know what to do in a situation where a president just starts murdering political opponents. No one's done it before because if a president orders the military to assassinate his opponent in the election, the military will refuse. While the military follows the orders of the commander-in-chief, their loyalty is to the Constitution (and thus to the legal role and powers of the presidency as described in the Constitution) rather than to any individual president. If a president orders them to do something blatantly unconstitutional, there's nothing to stop them from just refusing the order (practically speaking, there's not a whole lot that the president can really do about it), and it's unlikely that they're going to be particularly inclined to follow this particular order.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:12
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Coward of a judge. my guess is appeals goes "yeah whatever" and tosses it back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:13
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:my guess is appeals goes "yeah whatever" and tosses it back. Appeal process will cause delay. This is the judge punting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:28
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:No one's done it before because if a president orders the military to assassinate his opponent in the election, the military will refuse. While the military follows the orders of the commander-in-chief, their loyalty is to the Constitution (and thus to the legal role and powers of the presidency as described in the Constitution) rather than to any individual president. If a president orders them to do something blatantly unconstitutional, there's nothing to stop them from just refusing the order (practically speaking, there's not a whole lot that the president can really do about it), and it's unlikely that they're going to be particularly inclined to follow this particular order. This. Even if you granted that the president has blanket immunity, that immunity would not extend to everyone criming on his behalf. There's tons of precedence around the duty of servicemembers to disobey patently illegal orders, and "I was just following orders" is very broadly understood to not be a defense in those cases. The president can pardon a court-martial though, so we have that going for us.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:48
|
|
|
Gyrotica posted:Nixon only resigned because there were enough Republicans willing to convict him during an impeachment proceeding. He didn't resign because he was caught, he resigned because he didn't think he could get away with it. Main Paineframe posted:Nixon resigned because he was going to be impeached anyway, as his own party had openly turned against him in Congress. Faced with the inevitability of losing the presidency, he chose to make his exit on his own terms so that he could immediately start working on rebuilding his reputation. Nixon resigned because the Republicans weren't going to go down on his ship. Once the smoking gun tapes were released and Congressional Republicans were starring a blue wave in the face, they made the only move they had left and cast Nixon aside, with Nixon being enough of a party man to recognize when the game had been lost. That doesn't exist now with Trump and these Republicans; they're fully tied to him and Trump isn't a party man, Trump is the party. There's no scenario in which Republicans turn on Trump and there's no scenario in which he'll ever resign. Main Paineframe posted:No one's done it before because if a president orders the military to assassinate his opponent in the election, the military will refuse. While the military follows the orders of the commander-in-chief, their loyalty is to the Constitution (and thus to the legal role and powers of the presidency as described in the Constitution) rather than to any individual president. If a president orders them to do something blatantly unconstitutional, there's nothing to stop them from just refusing the order (practically speaking, there's not a whole lot that the president can really do about it), and it's unlikely that they're going to be particularly inclined to follow this particular order. In theory, it could be another Archibald Cox scenario: if Seal Team Six won't do it, then maybe Seal Team Two or Seal Team 12 or Task Force X or whomever. Either you find the one person who's willing to kill whomever or is MAGA brained enough to be loyal to Trump over the Constitution, or a career person sees enough people in line ahead of them be dismissed by the President to swallow their pride and do what's best for their personal bottom line. If Presidential Immunity is ruled to be all-encompassing and Congress has made it clear that they can't/won't keep the President in check, then any President who's willing to take a mad idea to its conclusion will knock off anyone who looks like a threat. That scenario requires a lot of systems failing and a lot of weak links in chains, but given what we've seen it can only be ruled improbable, not impossible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:52
|
|
|
C. Everett Koop posted:. There is also the simple situation that the president can pardon other people's crimes and arguably his own while he remains in office; the only limits are impeachment and the political process. All he really needs, once in office, is a congress that will refuse to impeach him and underlings willing to commit open crimes under promise of pardon, and he has both. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 20, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:56
|
|
|
List of properties that will/may be seized.Letitia's List posted:Trump Park Avenue, New York, N.Y. Blatant speculation but if the properties are seized I wonder what the odds are that they find MORE classified documents that I could see Trump leaving around because he forgot about them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 17:57
|
|
|
Ginger Beer Belly posted:There's tons of precedence around the duty of servicemembers to disobey patently illegal orders, and "I was just following orders" is very broadly understood to not be a defense in those cases. I get that there's legal precedence that soldiers have a duty to disobey such orders, but is there any precedence of soldiers actually refusing such orders?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 18:00
|
|
|
Cimber posted:Ok, so lets just stop following Georga for the next year, because nothing will be happening with THAT case. Assuming the case doesn't get dismissed later. Meh. Wouldn’t have gone to trial before November anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 18:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:48 |
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Meh. Wouldn’t have gone to trial before November anyway. If you are going at Donald loving Trump, Ex president, current nominee and all around shitheel who is known for delay tactics you sure as gently caress had better have a goddamn clean house because everyone loving knows he's going to do anything in his power to muddy the waters. What the gently caress was she THINKING. GAAAAAH.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 18:10
|
|