|
Harrow posted:I think there's also the fact that Cloud is loving scary. They show us a couple times in Rebirth how terrifying Cloud can be when he gets violent. After seeing him butcher a whole squad of troopers and later coldly stab a SOLDIER who was begging for his life, I sure as hell wouldn't be confronting him about poo poo. It's tragic too, because it's not like he really wants to be like this or even really understands that he is.
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 11:29 |
|
|
Rhonne posted:Can't you just buy any weapons you miss at the weapon vendor later? Yeah but that sucks, it feels lovely to have to spend Gil on weapons because your eyeballs don’t work normally. I had to do that for Tifa’s weapon and I was mad about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:06
|
|
|
Namnesor posted:This is objectively wrong when Rebirth is the game that gave us Gus's themes. Yeah the music hits way harder in this game than it did in Remake for me. FF XIV has trained me to listen for motifs and their usage of them in Rebirth is incredible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:13
|
|
|
The leitmotifs are pretty strong yeah. I just kind of hung out in Cosmo Canyon for a while listening to that fiddle remix of the overworld theme. Also, bow wow wow. And Yuffie just making up lyrics to songs because she can. There's absolutely nothing less than excellent about the music in Rebirth. Just saying that the Remake treatments of the Jenova theme, Crazy Motorcycle, and others have permanently established themselves in my head for the set pieces they're tied to as well as the music itself. Thundarr fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Mar 21, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:24
|
|
|
The music is incredible across the board but so far the music in Cosmo has hit hardest for me, the remixes are just so good
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:26
|
|
|
How many remixes/arrangements of Those Who Fight are we up to now
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:31
|
|
|
Cosmo Canyon overworld specifically was the point that an area's music began to grate on me. Just not a good track for how long you're doing stuff there. Maybe it's just not liking the area and that affecting my perception of the music, but I cannot agree with anyone who points to that as evidence of better music than remake.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:38
|
|
|
Aww I loved the Cosmo Canyon overworld theme, it's so charming
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:39
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Aww I loved the Cosmo Canyon overworld theme, it's so charming I had it playing all day at work for a week the first time I encountered it. So chill.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:41
|
|
|
I couldn't stand the Gongaga overworld music, that was more of an annoyance to me than navigating my way around the mushrooms. Maybe only because I didn't spend any more time there than I needed to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 15:50
|
|
|
The greatest thing about Rebirth is that everybody's bingo cards for "parts of Rebirth I didn't like" are different so it'll be a source of Internet arguments for the rest of time. Like Gongaga and Cosmo Canyon traversal didn't bother me at all but they seem to drive a lot of people nuts. Meanwhile I'm over here getting tilted at poo poo that Remake did too so I shoulda known to expect it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 16:30
|
|
|
Thundarr posted:The greatest thing about Rebirth is that everybody's bingo cards for "parts of Rebirth I didn't like" are different so it'll be a source of Internet arguments for the rest of time. I hated Cosmo travel so bad that it broke me of the need to 100% every zone before leaving but that worked out to my advantage because I'm going to hit level cap doing all the cleanup without needing to grind thanks to the postgame experience/ap bonus and the EXP materia (which apparently applies to the entire party). Like last night I realized I was a high enough level to do the Greg fights which I thought I was gonna need to grind up in the colosseum or something to get to it but I haven't even touched those yet. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Mar 21, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 16:44
|
|
|
lines posted:I think the Aerith/Tifa/Cloud stuff is really interesting and, sadly, very realistic. It's really hard to support someone who you care about but keeps hurting you. I like the clear signals that Cloud is not OK, that everyone realises this, but ultimately it's not like they can *do* anything about it. But I do agree that they could have pushed back more. It feels like the Gongaga Incident ought to have pushed Tifa to confront Cloud but sadly it's almost the opposite. Like you say, though, it's quite raw and real. I'm looking forward to the next game for sure... I really like how Rebirth presented Cloud's whole deal too, but I though that if they wanted to go for the "there's nothing they can do to stop/help Cloud" angle then I think it really would have benefited from the party making even a token effort to at least try something, anything. Even just like sitting down as a group and saying "Cloud, you are super messed up, we need some kind of assurances here." As it is I found it increasingly absurd how little reaction there is to Cloud's behaviour as it continues to get worse and worse. Especially in Chapter 14 where Cloud just tried to execute the Turks, started doing a Gollum impression and menaced Aerith into handing over the (fake?) black materia to Sephiroth before falling unconscious, and the party decides the best course of action is to carry around the completely insane unconscious dude until he wakes up and can continue being insane full time instead of just leaving him in the boat or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 16:53
|
|
|
Bland posted:I really like how Rebirth presented Cloud's whole deal too, but I though that if they wanted to go for the "there's nothing they can do to stop/help Cloud" angle then I think it really would have benefited from the party making even a token effort to at least try something, anything. Even just like sitting down as a group and saying "Cloud, you are super messed up, we need some kind of assurances here." As it is I found it increasingly absurd how little reaction there is to Cloud's behaviour as it continues to get worse and worse. Especially in Chapter 14 where Cloud just tried to execute the Turks, started doing a Gollum impression and menaced Aerith into handing over the (fake?) black materia to Sephiroth before falling unconscious, and the party decides the best course of action is to carry around the completely insane unconscious dude until he wakes up and can continue being insane full time instead of just leaving him in the boat or whatever. No-one except Aerith saw anything once the Temple poofed, the wisps blocked everyone (except maybe Tifa for some of it?) - and then Aerith lies about what happened when the party catch up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:08
|
|
|
Complete_Cynic posted:No-one except Aerith saw anything once the Temple poofed, the wisps blocked everyone (except maybe Tifa for some of it?) - and then Aerith lies about what happened when the party catch up. I'm aware of that. When I say "it's increasingly absurd how little the party reacts to Cloud's behaviour", that includes Aerith. Besides, the others did also see the other stuff I mentioned, and a bunch of other deranged behaviour I didn't mention too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:12
|
|
|
It'll be interesting to see how they handle revisiting some of these zones in the next game. Most people seem to really hate Gongaga, so I assume they try to change it up a bit to make it easier to navigate if we go back there next time. Maybe a WEAPON can destroy the forest and replace it with an easy to navigate wasteland. Sorry, Zack's parents, but I don't want to see another giant mushroom ever again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:13
|
|
|
Bland posted:I'm aware of that. When I say "it's increasingly absurd how little the party reacts to Cloud's behaviour", that includes Aerith. Besides, the others did also see the other stuff I mentioned, and a bunch of other deranged behaviour I didn't mention too. Aerith flat-out tells Cloud he needs to get his poo poo sorted out and leaves the party.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:17
|
|
|
Bland posted:I'm aware of that. When I say "it's increasingly absurd how little the party reacts to Cloud's behaviour", that includes Aerith. Besides, the others did also see the other stuff I mentioned, and a bunch of other deranged behaviour I didn't mention too. I include that part under the whole bungled ending umbrella. The writing kinda loses the plot around that point, in a bad way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:23
|
|
|
Eccentric Swordsman for best character of 2024, hands-down. I love that guy every time he shows up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:25
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Aerith flat-out tells Cloud he needs to get his poo poo sorted out and leaves the party. Exactly! The only way any party member ever addresses Cloud's increasing instability is a quick "get your poo poo together bud" before backing down and leaving him to it when he does not, in fact, get his poo poo together. Plus she doesn't even leave the party! That's what happens in OG, not Rebirth. In this she walks with the unconscious Cloud and the rest of the party all the way to the Forgotten Capital before they get separated by magic plot fog.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:26
|
|
|
Yuffie should just tell Cloud to stop being so cringe. That'll break him out of his funk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:26
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:Yuffie should just tell Cloud to stop being so cringe. That'll break him out of his funk. This is how he'll be saved in part 3
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:28
|
|
|
f#a# posted:Eccentric Swordsman for best character of 2024, hands-down. I love that guy every time he shows up. greg greg greg greg greg
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:34
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:Yuffie should just tell Cloud to stop being so cringe. That'll break him out of his funk. If she did this, something scary would happen immediately and cause her to hide behind Cloud. She'd never mention it of course, because she is not cringe. Pollyanna posted:greg greg greg greg greg He's the best there is at what he does
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:34
|
|
|
Thundarr posted:If she did this, something scary would happen immediately and cause her to hide behind Cloud. She'd never mention it of course, because she is not cringe. Crinja
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:35
|
|
|
 Crinja.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:37
|
|
|
RatHat posted:I dont understand what I’m doing wrong in Send in the Clowns. I just can’t get past round 4 with the double Joker and the toad. I try to kill the toad first but the Jokers do so much damage it’s hard to dodge both their attacks and fight the toad at the same time. I’m using Cloud/Barret/Yuffie with Barret set up for magic(and he has Pray). I went for this basically right after finishing the main story and I’m almost to level cap just from failed attempts… Sleep and Stop work on the enemies in round 4. Other than that, you want to figure out who the Jokers are targeting and manually control that person to make sure they dodge. With your team, Barret's dodge is too short to get out of the way so you instead want to control Yuffie and yank Barrett out of the way with Ninja Bazooka.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:48
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Crinja "I'm afraid I have composed a song in which I, Yuffie, am based, and you, Shinra, are cringe, so that's gg no res, tyfp."
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:53
|
|
|
Yuffie is so much fun in this game, both gameplay-wise and character-wise. Everyone is, really. Just knocked it out of the park with the characters, writing and gameplay
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:55
|
|
|
I was excited to see how they would incorporate Yuffie into the main party from right when Intergrade came out and I was not disappointed
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:57
|
|
|
they really did, I even really enjoy using Cait Sith, who is a permanent bench warmer whenever I play the OG
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:58
|
|
|
It helps that Cait Sith is unreasonably adorable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 17:59
|
|
|
I had to crank down the difficulty on that fourth fight also, the only time I did that other than to get Gears and Gambits over with. To be fair it was late at night and I wanted to finish up side quests without researching gimmick fight strats so I'd have time to finish the game the next day. Which I needed, since chapters 13 and 14 took me from 4 PM to 1 AM.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
I feel like one of the strongest themes in the original Final Fantasy VII is the often overwhelming challenge of dealing with a loved one who is themselves contending with trauma or mental illness. The relationships that Cloud has formed with the party are such that it's very difficult for any one of them to confront him individually, and so in order to maintain what little stability they have as a team, the party largely ignores or downplays Cloud's increasingly-erratic behavior until it reaches such a breaking point that it jeopardizes everyone's safety. It isn't that they don't realize or apprehend that something is wrong -- they do. But Tifa treats Cloud as the last remnant of her ruined childhood and is terrified that he will disappear or leave again; Aerith wants to help in as gentle a manner as possible, because of her burgeoning feelings toward him, and that often doesn't work; Barret is himself incapable of dealing with trauma in a healthy manner, and his relationship with Cloud is built on a foundation of at-first-grudging respect, which makes vulnerability in either direction mostly impossible; Red XIII and Yuffie are literally children, etc. These themes are mostly intact in Rebirth, although they sort of moved some of the emotional beats from Tifa to Aerith. In the original text, Tifa is aware that Cloud is full of poo poo w/r/t the Mt. Nibel reactor incident immediately, and she elects to say nothing -- likely because she doesn't want to imperil her tenuous relationship with Cloud, who only recently reappeared and still seems to be drifting toward another woman. To have her immediately try to talk to Aerith about it is a significant change. "Tifa will lie to the party if it means keeping Cloud comfortable, regardless of it endangering the others" was a compelling plot point, to me, and gave her character some melancholy texture. Shifting that emotional labor to Aerith, who lies to the party about the circumstances surrounding the climax of the Temple of the Ancients, is a neat change. I guess your mileage may vary about whether the party's inaction snaps all credulity, but I find it pretty believable, even if the result is inevitably tragic and likely to get worse.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:07
|
|
|
I think a major factor is like... what does the party do? Ditch Cloud? They're on a journey to defeat the most powerful person in the world and Cloud is their biggest hitter by far and when he is together is insanely competent. Short of giving up on the mission to save the world so they can take Cloud to go get therapy there aren't a ton of options
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:12
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I think a major factor is like... what does the party do? Ditch Cloud? They're on a journey to defeat the most powerful person in the world and Cloud is their biggest hitter by far and when he is together is insanely competent. Short of giving up on the mission to save the world so they can take Cloud to go get therapy there aren't a ton of options e: It's also worth mentioning that despite his meta status as a memetic loser, the party all like Cloud. They both want and need him to be "okay," which makes it virtually impossible for them to actually take the steps required to help him heal. Cloud himself also insists, repeatedly, that he's fine, everything is fine, and is such a stoic loner that it's entirely believable that if anyone upset him enough, he would just leave the group or treat them with contempt and hostility, which nobody wants, because, again, they like him, and want him to like them back. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Mar 21, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:15
|
|
|
Red and Yuffie have their own trauma to deal with, too. Red lost his parents at a young age and was a lab rat for Hojo for years, Yuffie's home has been ravaged by war and she had to watch her partner die in Midgar(something she still hasn't even talked to anyone about) and Wutai is about to go to war again in the next game! Everyone on the crew has their own poo poo weighing on them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:20
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:Red and Yuffie have their own trauma to deal with, too. Yuffie is gonna get completely wrecked when she learns the whole resistance movement was a front for Shinra to take over Wutai. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:23
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:Red and Yuffie have their own trauma to deal with, too. It's the reason why FF7 is my favorite Final Fantasy. A lot of FFs are spectacular in their own ways, but they largely are about what they say they're about, including the really really good ones with the politicking and throne-gaming that I like in my fantasy fiction (FFT, FF12, and FF16, specifically). FF7 is only nominally "about" the whole "find the pretty silverhair and murder the gently caress out of him before he kills the planet," and its subtext and themes are pretty powerful and good. The remakes have both treated these themes in a manner I find immensely satisfying, so I'm really excited for the next part.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 11:29 |
|
|
Thundarr posted:Yuffie is gonna get completely wrecked when she learns the whole resistance movement was a front for Shinra to take over Wutai. I'm half expecting Sonon to come back as a black robe in the next game, too. Shinra has his body, and it wouldn't be the first corpse they did that to(looking at you, Glenn!) Next game is gonna be a bad time for Yuffie.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 18:27
|
|