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polyester concept posted:it's been a few days since I watched dune 2 but I can't stop thinking about the visuals. everything was so on point and satisfying. so menacing. even small things like how their laser weapons were continuous beams of light rather than the typical PEW PEW projectiles you see in sci-fi. I remember thinking the same thing in the first part, when the bombs were slowly penetrating the ship's shields. just a delight to watch. Jabor posted:Honestly the whole "projectiles that slowly push their way through shields before exploding on the inside" thing is just incredible filmmaking. Visually spectacular, but still makes perfect sense as the sort of weapon you'd design to beat that particular defense. haveblue posted:and then the explosion is contained within the shield for a moment before it fails yep
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Mar 22, 2024 17:19
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I saw Dunc 2 in not-IMAX on Monday and I'm still thinking about it, it's so fuckin good I think more than anything I was relieved it didn't suck, I was mentally prepared for it to be a mess and I'm so delighted it wasn't
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Mar 22, 2024 19:12
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yeah it was everything i had hoped for. villeneuve ftw one thing though, i dont remember what the book says anymore, but how was gurney halleck able to run a spice smuggling operation all this time without either the fremen or the harkonnens knowing?
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Mar 22, 2024 19:22
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Carthag Tuek posted:yeah it was everything i had hoped for. villeneuve ftw i don’t think it’s ever explicitly laid out but he wasn’t around long enough for the fremen to really get an idea of who he was before he went into hiding and the harkonnens never knew about him because the whole point of being a smuggler is not being known
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Mar 22, 2024 19:29
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PIZZA.BAT posted:i don’t think it’s ever explicitly laid out but he wasn’t around long enough for the fremen to really get an idea of who he was before he went into hiding and the harkonnens never knew about him because the whole point of being a smuggler is not being known yeah i guess. just like, you need to get the spice off world so thats a bunch of infrastructure, also probably good to have some fremen on crew (he wasnt there long enough before it went to poo poo to really know much about the desert unlike ~duncan~) e: they do say in the first one that satellites dont work, and also the harkonnens have virtually no knowledge of what happens on the southern hemisphere (even with orbital ships), so maybe there are a lot of smaller smuggling operations going on, constantly skipping under the radar Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 19:32
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the spacing guild would know though, wouldn't they?
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Mar 22, 2024 19:45
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finally found a 70mm imax dune 2 ticket not in the first two rows! it's on a Monday at 11:30am and that isn't even the matinee 8:30
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Mar 22, 2024 19:50
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a lot of things about dune are unclear, by which i mean they’re poorly thought out because frank herbert wanted the universe to work a certain way and didn’t much care about whether it made any sense interplanetary smuggling in a universe where all transportation necessarily funnels through specific gates and requires a pilot from a specific line of literal mutants is not going to work the way it gets handwaved in dune
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Mar 22, 2024 19:53
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the novel makes it clear that the guild serves anyone and everyone and messing around on board their ships is absolutely forbidden. so I guess it’s consistent with that that you could say “hey please ship my crime crates to arrakis” and they say “as long as you’ve got the cash, sure” could also be just local smuggling by stealing from shipments after they’re planetside gurney himself IIRC was already a legendary warrior so the fremen had heard of him and he impressed them enough to let him blend in, much like Paul did except without having to shank a guy and pretend to be the messiah haveblue fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 19:59
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rjmccall posted:a lot of things about dune are unclear, by which i mean they’re poorly thought out because frank herbert wanted the universe to work a certain way and didn’t much care about whether it made any sense yeah its this. The unknowable nature of the southern hemisphere is handwaved via some "the spacing guild works in mysterious ways" thing.
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Mar 22, 2024 20:02
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infernal machines posted:the spacing guild would know though, wouldn't they? i think the guild is basically a "world power" unto itself (imperial court, landsraad, bene gesserit, spacing guild: the four estates lol), i dont think they care where the spice comes from Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 22, 2024 |
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Mar 22, 2024 20:03
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rjmccall posted:frank herbert wanted the universe to work a certain way and didn’t much care about whether it made any sense tbf this is how our real universe works
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Mar 22, 2024 20:05
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Carthag Tuek posted:i think the guild is basically a "world power" unto itself, i dont think they care where the spice comes from yes. power rests equally on the guild, the emperor, and the landsraad (council of great houses), all bound together by CHOAM which runs the galactic economy
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Mar 22, 2024 20:06
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haveblue posted:yes. power rests equally on the guild, the emperor, and the landsraad (council of great houses), all bound together by CHOAM which runs the galactic economy 
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Mar 22, 2024 20:09
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haveblue posted:yes. power rests equally on the guild, the emperor, and the landsraad (council of great houses), all bound together by CHOAM which runs the galactic economy indigi posted:tbf this is how our real universe works
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Mar 22, 2024 20:54
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rjmccall posted:a lot of things about dune are unclear, by which i mean they’re poorly thought out because frank herbert wanted the universe to work a certain way and didn’t much care about whether it made any sense I forget which book it’s in but the smuggling is fremen bypassing the de jure government of Arrakis to directly bribe the guild itself rotor posted:yeah its this. The unknowable nature of the southern hemisphere is handwaved via some "the spacing guild works in mysterious ways" thing. this secrecy and refusing to deploy satellites is what the fremen are buying with the bribes
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Mar 22, 2024 21:14
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hobbesmaster posted:I forget which book it’s in but the smuggling is fremen bypassing the de jure government of Arrakis to directly bribe the guild itself fremen ftw
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Mar 22, 2024 21:19
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I want to say that’s in the first book but Herbert actually did address things that “didn’t make sense” in heretics there’s a conversation between two priests that amounts to “…Leto the second…” “actually it’s Leto the third” “nobody cares” and I guarantee that is an argument he had at book signings
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Mar 22, 2024 21:19
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the scale of everything in dune is just weird. house atreides is one of the greatest of the great houses, and essentially all of its forces fit into a single field, and they don’t even have the manpower to maintain active patrols or any other outer advance warning systems. like it’s maybe ten thousand soldiers at most. and then it’s the same thing with the harkonnens, their forces are also in a field (shared with the sardaukar, even) which can be pretty much wiped clean with a nuke or two. these are houses that supposedly control dozens of systems iirc
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Mar 22, 2024 21:29
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actually i vaguely remember either Carthag or Tuek being the name of a fremen spice smuggler in the book. the combination in my nick is the name of a sietch in the first Dune game (1992) soundtrack was so great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM1niSBAIdE https://stphanepicq.bandcamp.com/album/dune-spice-opera-2024-remaster
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Mar 22, 2024 21:31
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hobbesmaster posted:I forget which book it’s in but the smuggling is fremen bypassing the de jure government of Arrakis to directly bribe the guild itself yeah but in context it makes no sense though and its best just left unexamined
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Mar 22, 2024 21:40
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rjmccall posted:the scale of everything in dune is just weird. house atreides is one of the greatest of the great houses, and essentially all of its forces fit into a single field, and they don’t even have the manpower to maintain active patrols or any other outer advance warning systems. like it’s maybe ten thousand soldiers at most. and then it’s the same thing with the harkonnens, their forces are also in a field (shared with the sardaukar, even) which can be pretty much wiped clean with a nuke or two. these are houses that supposedly control dozens of systems iirc I was under the impression that the great houses control planets while lower houses control cities on planets, and that they 1) don’t really have much use/funding for giant armies 2) the Atreides focused on naval power, who would be useless on Arrakis 3) livable worlds were few and far between
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Mar 22, 2024 21:41
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rjmccall posted:the scale of everything in dune is just weird. house atreides is one of the greatest of the great houses, and essentially all of its forces fit into a single field, and they don’t even have the manpower to maintain active patrols or any other outer advance warning systems. like it’s maybe ten thousand soldiers at most. and then it’s the same thing with the harkonnens, their forces are also in a field (shared with the sardaukar, even) which can be pretty much wiped clean with a nuke or two. these are houses that supposedly control dozens of systems iirc i like that. i think of it as civilization has completely fallen, but they have some really cool technology left over that lets them basically play space emperor and stuff, but it's all fighting for control of maybe a million people spread over a huge area. i doubt that the way i like to think of it is actually consistent with the books, im sure there's one somewhere that says there are a hundred billion humans or something. but ive only read the first book so your inconvenient facts mean nothing to me
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Mar 22, 2024 21:41
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like if they have the kind of access that lets them bribe the guild itself why are they being slaughtered wholesale by the harkonnens? it makes no sense but its ok because he's not building a perfectly cohesive self-consistant world, he's telling a good story.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:42
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rotor posted:like if they have the kind of access that lets them bribe the guild itself why are they being slaughtered wholesale by the harkonnens? it makes no sense but its ok because he's not building a perfectly cohesive self-consistant world, he's telling a good story. why does the middle east constantly get invaded by world superpowers if they have all the oil
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Mar 22, 2024 21:43
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ok my only gripe with dune 2 was casting walken because I can’t see his face and think of anything other than all of his previous roles.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:45
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polyester concept posted:ok my only gripe with dune 2 was casting walken because I can’t see his face and think of anything other than all of his previous roles. 
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Mar 22, 2024 21:46
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haveblue posted:why does the middle east constantly get invaded by world superpowers if they have all the oil so if we're gonna take the metaphor all the way down here, what is the metaphor for the fremen bribing the spacing guild to ban spy sattelites over the southern hemisphere? also: why are people so intent on coming up with explanations like this? it is entirely tangential to the story and makes no real difference. its a handwave, let it go.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:47
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polyester concept posted:ok my only gripe with dune 2 was casting walken because I can’t see his face and think of anything other than all of his previous roles. ill actually agree with this. he's basically like jack nicholson at this point, he doesnt play a role he plays christopher walken playing a role. its distracting and it wasnt necessary.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:48
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:I was under the impression that the great houses control planets while lower houses control cities on planets, and that they 1) don’t really have much use/funding for giant armies 2) the Atreides focused on naval power, who would be useless on Arrakis 3) livable worlds were few and far between idk from the books but in the movies it's only the great houses who have nukes so they don't really need a huge army to force a petty noble to keep a planet in line for them
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Mar 22, 2024 21:49
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i would like to ask that someone please come up with a clever dune pun so we can retitle the thread. current title has been in place since before the first denis dune.
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Mar 22, 2024 21:50
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tuek is a characterrjmccall posted:the scale of everything in dune is just weird. house atreides is one of the greatest of the great houses, and essentially all of its forces fit into a single field, and they don’t even have the manpower to maintain active patrols or any other outer advance warning systems. like it’s maybe ten thousand soldiers at most. and then it’s the same thing with the harkonnens, their forces are also in a field (shared with the sardaukar, even) which can be pretty much wiped clean with a nuke or two. these are houses that supposedly control dozens of systems iirc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_(medieval)?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_feudalism?wprov=sfti1 note that this is not strictly historically accurate (note the discussion in the 2nd article) but this is where the concept comes from. the forces fighting are the houses’ personal guards and retainers plus mercenaries
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Mar 22, 2024 21:51
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Paul Muad'dib Atradeez Nuts
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Mar 22, 2024 21:51
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Glorgnole posted:i would like to ask that someone please come up with a clever dune pun so we can retitle the thread. current title has been in place since before the first denis dune. but the empire still runs on Duncan
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Mar 22, 2024 21:52
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rotor posted:also: why are people so intent on coming up with explanations like this? it is entirely tangential to the story and makes no real difference. its a handwave, let it go. not wrong but I brought up the middle east because herbert admitted he intentionally paralleled OPEC
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Mar 22, 2024 21:54
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rotor posted:like if they have the kind of access that lets them bribe the guild itself why are they being slaughtered wholesale by the harkonnens? it makes no sense but its ok because he's not building a perfectly cohesive self-consistant world, he's telling a good story. I suppose it’s more accurate to say that they negotiated an agreement where they aren’t loving up the guild’s wildcat mining operations with worms? I forget if they go into how the anti fremen pogroms worked but the word used was pogroms
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Mar 22, 2024 21:55
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rotor posted:like if they have the kind of access that lets them bribe the guild itself why are they being slaughtered wholesale by the harkonnens? it makes no sense but its ok because he's not building a perfectly cohesive self-consistant world, he's telling a good story. yeah. and it’s fine, i can just take the world as it is and enjoy the spectacle. but i also enjoy poking fun at it because it is very silly FAT32 SHAMER posted:I2) the Atreides focused on naval power, who would be useless on Arrakis right, so how is this useful anywhere. why would you focus on naval power — not space naval, actual naval — in a universe where presumably all significant military disputes are interplanetary. do you just pay the guild to airdrop your entire fleet into place so you can blockade your enemy’s seaports
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Mar 22, 2024 21:57
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five long years the emperor kept the family atomics up his rear end
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Mar 22, 2024 22:00
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rotor posted:so if we're gonna take the metaphor all the way down here, what is the metaphor for the fremen bribing the spacing guild to ban spy sattelites over the southern hemisphere? those are something like opec, saudi arabia. as long as the spice/oil doesnt stop flowing entirely, they can get away with a surprising number of things rotor posted:also: why are people so intent on coming up with explanations like this? it is entirely tangential to the story and makes no real difference. its a handwave, let it go. eh i dont care whats true or real or neither i just wanna talk about dunc
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Mar 22, 2024 22:01
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:I was under the impression that the great houses control planets while lower houses control cities on planets, and that they 1) don’t really have much use/funding for giant armies 2) the Atreides focused on naval power, who would be useless on Arrakis 3) livable worlds were few and far between hobbesmaster addressed one aspect of this but another is that the great houses basically don't wage large-scale war. the phrase "war of assassins" comes up multiple times in the first book and basically there are conventions of war they've all agreed to that (if i remember right) stipulate the general populace is generally not to be harmed in the fighting between nobles. also, guild transit fees are already pretty steep, and the impression i got is they charge even more for military transport, so launching invasions is ruinously expensive. baron harkonnen said that it'd take at least sixty years of spice mining to recoup the cost of transporting the harkonnen and sardaukar forces to arrakis. imagine if a single war on earth cost the equivalent of sixty years of oil industry revenue.
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Mar 22, 2024 22:02
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