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I just think it's a bizarre start date for Imperator 2.ilitarist posted:This depends a lot on the pacing. To be honest, EU4 felt already too long for me, I'd prefer it to be denser, especially now that Tinto focused on bringing more flavor and special events and missions to countries. I enjoy playing late game EU4 due to how evolved and transformed the wolrd becomes, but still it feels like the same systems can't handle Medieval armies and dynastic policies at the same time as Napoleonic warfare and Great Power games. I think I had a higher campaign completion rate than the average EU4 player. Part of that was picking small countries often but the other part was adjusting my pace to the game's length. Putting it on top speed more, not expanding so aggressively bc there's always more time, etc.
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Mar 23, 2024 14:11
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:I'm pretty excited about this project. 4 definitely started out a bit too similar to 3, and it doesn't seem like they're going to have that problem this time. That doesn't mean it'll necessarily be good, but it should at least be interesting. They pushed themselves into the corner with 11+ years of support, you can't make EU but better again. But then I also thought it was true for CK2 and CK3 is not really a revolution the way EU3 or Victoria 3 or HoI4 were. Go figure.
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Mar 23, 2024 14:43
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Reveilled posted:I wonder how they’ll model the early warfare situation for England. It’s notable that in EU4 Great Britain pretty much always forms by England conquering Scotland very early on and then just waiting for Admin tech 10, and it usually stomps all over Ireland similarly early despite the challenges of actually ruling Ireland meaning they couldn’t actually make any conquest stick until the late 16th century. 1337 nominally starts with England in an even more commanding position—sure, they’re losing a war to effectively vassalise Scotland, but will the AI actually accept defeat or just turn around and win that war most of the time, starting the unification of the isles even earlier than in EU4? If England does vassalise Scotland, in EU4 this would effectively create a docile client, but in practice all it ever did was create a constant rebellious ulcer as Scotland just kept trying to win its independence over and over and over again. Any attempt to subdue the Irish Lords mostly just led to them saying “OK, yes England, you’re in charge” and then going right back to ignoring them the second the armies were gone. In neither case could England just annex a bit of Scotland or Ireland in one war, then another bit in a second war, then finish them off in a third war, which is exactly what happens in EU4 almost every time. Hopefully vassals and personal unions are just generally unruly if they don't feel like they're being respected, so even if England does vassalize Scotland it can just choose to rebel the moment England attempts poo poo in France.
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Mar 23, 2024 15:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:IIRC, England (possibly the British Isles in general) were very overdeveloped in EU4 compared to where it should be at the time, basically as if you pulled the early 18th century version back in time. Even if that imbalance was uniform across the islands, the fact that it skewed the balance between France and England might've done a lot to let England run wild. Based on the numbers I find doing a quick Google, the population disparity between England and the rest of the British Isles should be much much smaller than it is today, which combined with France being more of a threat (and prize!) might be enough to keep Scotland free. One of the other factors, I think, are the game’s truce mechanics. If England fights off France, they’ve then got 5+ years of an uninterrupted free hand in Ireland and Scotland because trucebreaking costs loads of stability and aggressive expansion (and as far as I know, the AI never does it). But historically if France and England signed a peace treaty and the next year the English king then got tangled up in Ireland, France would be invading England’s continental holdings within a month or two, peace treaty be damned, and neither French society nor the wider diplomatic world would much think him the lesser for it.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:00
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Reveilled posted:One of the other factors, I think, are the game’s truce mechanics. If England fights off France, they’ve then got 5+ years of an uninterrupted free hand in Ireland and Scotland because trucebreaking costs loads of stability and aggressive expansion (and as far as I know, the AI never does it). But historically if France and England signed a peace treaty and the next year the English king then got tangled up in Ireland, France would be invading England’s continental holdings within a month or two, peace treaty be damned, and neither French society nor the wider diplomatic world would much think him the lesser for it. Lot's of possibilities really, and something that could switch up the diplomatic gameplay from previous games.
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Mar 23, 2024 18:37
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Here's my dumb wish: stop making all the numbers like +0.10 and -0.05. gimme some nice big numbers that are easy to read.
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Mar 23, 2024 22:26
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fuf posted:Here's my dumb wish: stop making all the numbers like +0.10 and -0.05. gimme some nice big numbers that are easy to read. Hight time for gamedesigners to start using ‱ symbol. You can get +100‱ and feel good about it. But really when I have an issue with numbers it's because of the sheer number of modifiers. No single bonus feels important after early game cause you have so many ideas, estate modifiers, permanent bonuses from missions, dozen government reforms and so on. Sadly EU4 went through a period where every expansion was obliged to add a new important value onto the systems.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:04
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ilitarist posted:But really when I have an issue with numbers it's because of the sheer number of modifiers. No single bonus feels important after early game cause you have so many ideas, estate modifiers, permanent bonuses from missions, dozen government reforms and so on. Sadly EU4 went through a period where every expansion was obliged to add a new important value onto the systems. This is what I struggle with in almost every paradox game. Dozens of different stats and modifiers and only a handful that are really impactful.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:42
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ilitarist posted:Hight time for gamedesigners to start using ‱ symbol. You can get +100‱ and feel good about it. Wealth of Nations: +0.2 to numbers Res Publica: +0.15 to numbers Art of War: +0.05 to numbers El Dorado: +0.05 to numbers Common Sense: +0.05 to numbers The Cossacks: +0.25 to numbers Mare Nostrum: +0.05 to numbers Rights of Man: +0.1 to numbers Mandate of Heaven: +0.1 to numbers Cradle of Civilization: +0.35 to numbers Dharma: +0.05 to numbers Emperor: +0.05 to numbers Leviathan: +0.05 to numbers
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Mar 24, 2024 06:18
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Demon_Corsair posted:This is what I struggle with in almost every paradox game. Dozens of different stats and modifiers and only a handful that are really impactful. That’s better than all of them being impactful! If you’re struggling just look up the ones that matter and focus on them. And hope eu5 stays a lot more disciplined
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Mar 24, 2024 08:54
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I think it makes sense for them to want to model the shift from feudal/dynastic to nation states, especially given that the feudal model used in ck is actually more fitting for the early eu period than it is for the ck period. Dynasties are kind of underplayed in the eu franchise, when in actuality a ton of wars in the period were about personal claims based on feudal and dynastic relationships. But I'm afraid it's going to be a one way street, with progress only going one way. I wonder how it would model the English civil war, which is an attempt to do away with the old dynastic order and create a new type of country, that kind of overshot the goal and then reversed a bit. You'd almost need to separate out royal power (vs parliament or states general or whatever the game would call it) from the form of govt if you wanted to model that. It needs way more depth than the ck2 crown authority and council mechanics
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Mar 24, 2024 09:07
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Common Sense: +0.05 to numbers Initially Common sense added a lot more numbers but they were retroactively moved into the base game. Still it makes sense to use patch version, not DLC specifically when evaluating the number of numbers. I am sad to say I am left unsatisfied with your analysis. Demon_Corsair posted:This is what I struggle with in almost every paradox game. Dozens of different stats and modifiers and only a handful that are really impactful. To me they all feel impactful but with the sheer amount of important modifiers most feel inconsequential. They did some good job with making modifiers availability different. E.g. prestige bonuses are everywhere but getting max absolutism or core cost reduction is still rare and precious. What I mean is I no longer get the idea of what is my country good at. There was a time when you got the idea from the ideas, maybe a government type. But now there are also numerous government reforms, permanent modifiers from missions, all that stuff. If you open the page of various bonuses your country has modifiers for everything. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Mar 24, 2024 |
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Mar 24, 2024 09:58
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ilitarist posted:Initially Common sense added a lot more numbers but they were retroactively moved into the base game. Still it makes sense to use patch version, not DLC specifically when evaluating the number of numbers. I am sad to say I am left unsatisfied with your analysis.
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Mar 24, 2024 14:00
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Am I missing something in Imperator (with Invictus) or do I really need to accept each export trade request manually? The automatic trade button only does imports. It looks like the AI will only request an export if you have a surplus, and I think outside the capital province I would basically always prefer the money from the export rather than the stacked bonus, so I am just clicking "accept" every time. Would be nice to do it automatically.
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Mar 24, 2024 14:53
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fuf posted:Am I missing something in Imperator (with Invictus) or do I really need to accept each export trade request manually? The automatic trade button only does imports. It looks like the AI will only request an export if you have a surplus, and I think outside the capital province I would basically always prefer the money from the export rather than the stacked bonus, so I am just clicking "accept" every time. Would be nice to do it automatically. You have this backwards, I think? IIRC, AI only ever requests exports (trades of your goods to them), they never try to trade goods to you. If you have accept all trades on and you're still seeing trade offers, you probably also have block capital surplus on and they're offers for goods produced in the capital.
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Mar 24, 2024 15:06
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:You have this backwards, I think? IIRC, AI only ever requests exports (trades of your goods to them), they never try to trade goods to you. If you have accept all trades on and you're still seeing trade offers, you probably also have block capital surplus on and they're offers for goods produced in the capital. No sorry that's what I meant, I just phrased it badly. I mean "my goods to them". The AI requests my goods and I have to accept each time, when I'd rather just auto accept (as long as I have a non-capital surplus).
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Mar 24, 2024 15:29
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There's a lil amphorae in a couple province management areas that lets you set auto-trade for regions, though its bad at valuing the most feedy food since i had places go into starvation importing livestock instead of grain
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Mar 24, 2024 15:54
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In the top right of trade screen you have "accept all trades" option, and underneath there's "Block surplus". I recommend ticking both unless you have a plan and you'll be fine. You can also control automatic trade for every province.
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Mar 24, 2024 15:56
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ilitarist posted:In the top right of trade screen you have "accept all trades" option Aha! thank you, this is what I was missing.
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Mar 24, 2024 18:08
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They are making the name of Byzantium into a whole-rear end game rule in not!EU5.  https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/byzantium-vs-eastern-roman-empire.1651075/ 
YF-23 fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 22:55
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YF-23 posted:They are making the name of Byzantium into a whole-rear end game rule in not!EU5. 
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Mar 31, 2024 23:35
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Paradox probably thought they would please all sides. Little did they know it caused 16 pages (so far) of bitter infighting.
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Mar 31, 2024 23:44
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YF-23 posted:They are making the name of Byzantium into a whole-rear end game rule in not!EU5. lol why is the description so catty
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Mar 31, 2024 23:48
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ItohRespectArmy posted:lol why is the description so catty Someone in the thread complained about the description being sarcastic and Johan responded with "Slight sarcasm has always been our style". The thread is loving wild, there's people complaining that "byzantine" is a slur, posting diagrams trying to explain the relationship between the various words for "greek", and debatelording about the meaning of "sublime porte" complete with wikipedia screenshots. Incredible stuff.
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Mar 31, 2024 23:58
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YF-23 posted:posting diagrams trying to explain the relationship between the various words for "greek" 
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Apr 1, 2024 00:06
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what's going on fellow byzzies
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Apr 1, 2024 00:12
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byzoids malding
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Apr 1, 2024 00:14
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Didn't expect category theory in this thread.
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Apr 1, 2024 00:22
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OddObserver posted:Didn't expect category theory in this thread. is the Bosphorus a monad?
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Apr 1, 2024 01:01
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:what's going on fellow byzzies excuse me i prefer the term byzzle
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Apr 1, 2024 01:44
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You know that there's a cottage industry on YouTube in hating on Paradox, as in my "Suggestion feed" is a video claiming "Paradox's Curse may kill EU5".. and it hasn't even been formally ANNOUNCED yet. Announcing a game's death before it's announced is a new one to me. Basically: the video boils down to "Oh Noes, people want all the stuff from 10 years of work in their new game and will quit when it's not in the new version" when not realizing that all that stuff IS WHY they can go 10 years between major releases. SirFozzie fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 03:20
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:what's going on fellow byzzies Sounds like a slur Australians use. SirFozzie posted:Basically: the video boils down to "Oh Noes, people want all the stuff from 10 years of work in their new game and will quit when it's not in the new version" when not realizing that all that stuff IS WHY they can go 10 years between major releases. It is something I’ve noticed with ck and Vicky. They release in a polished but empty feeling state. And the dlc cycle is longer then it used to be, so even now ck3 doesn’t feel super fleshed out yet. I know you can’t get everything out in the base game, but they seem to leave space for future dlc and then are super slow getting that out. Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 06:40
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Demon_Corsair posted:It is something I’ve noticed with ck and Vicky. They release in a polished but empty feeling state. And the dlc cycle is longer then it used to be, so even now ck3 doesn’t feel super fleshed out yet. A lot depends on presentation and player expectation here. I remember listening to a podcast with a review of EU4 and people wondered what could they possibly do with DLC, the game is so full and varied. At the time it was compared to CK2 where DLCs gradually added playable Muslims, Republics, and later Indians and Nomads. A lot of tricks add to the feeling of uniqueness in these games. EU4 has the most of these I think. Even on the country selection screen you can usually see some unique ideas also known as explanation to how this particular people genetically earned their +5% to discipline. When you launch the game you get a screen talking about the environment and government and religion of the country. Imperator or Victoria 3 countries are often quite distinct, but you must get into the ledger to realize you are playing a tribe that has unique access to a lot of horses and an easy path to a formable country with some nice bonus on the way, Imperator required a lot of time to even add heritages - and it still feels like most of the map has generic heritages. With Victoria 3 it's especially funny cause some of the uniqueness of the country you can only see from outside with unique AI agendas.
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Apr 1, 2024 08:39
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SirFozzie posted:Basically: the video boils down to "Oh Noes, people want all the stuff from 10 years of work in their new game and will quit when it's not in the new version" when not realizing that all that stuff IS WHY they can go 10 years between major releases. The funniest part about this is when the devs come out and tell fans it will have the same amount of content as a game with 10 years of development. It’s like they trying to make the game fail by over promising.
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Apr 1, 2024 09:08
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ilitarist posted:When you launch the game you get a screen talking about the environment and government and religion of the country. EU4 did not have that on release - it was added quite late, if I remember correctly. But yeah, national ideas, along with inheriting a lot of EU3's country-specific missions and reworking EU2's historical events into the dynamic historical event system meant that release EU4 had some regional flair already. I wouldn't call it fleshed out really, if anything my memory of release EU4 was the opposite, everyone feeling like it was a bit bland, but I can see how someone would look at EU4 from CK2 and be surprised. As much as V3 is a fun game with solid mechanics I do not think it released in a similar state. There's some flavour here and there, like the Ottomans having to do the tanzimat reforms in the first 20 years or become unrecognised, but it feels like there's stuff missing, I've played games as Spain and the Carlists haven't come up once. It reminds me a bit of the old Crusader Kings simulationism complaint that that game works amazingly to represent French feudalism and the further away from France you get the more inaccurate it becomes.
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Apr 1, 2024 11:19
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It's forgotten history now, but people complained that EU4 didn't have as much stuff as EU3 for years.
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Apr 1, 2024 12:22
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YF-23 posted:They are making the name of Byzantium into a whole-rear end game rule in not!EU5. I am going to use the B word.
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Apr 1, 2024 12:50
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YF-23 posted:They are making the name of Byzantium into a whole-rear end game rule in not!EU5. this is hilarious and i hope it makes it to the release candidate
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Apr 1, 2024 13:00
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YF-23 posted:But yeah, national ideas, along with inheriting a lot of EU3's country-specific missions and reworking EU2's historical events into the dynamic historical event system meant that release EU4 had some regional flair already. I wouldn't call it fleshed out really, if anything my memory of release EU4 was the opposite, everyone feeling like it was a bit bland, but I can see how someone would look at EU4 from CK2 and be surprised. Those reviewers where experienced people who played other Paradox series, not entitled fans. IIRC they noted that many more countries need national ideas but it's not something you sell in an expansion. Also EU4 did a good job to specifically replicate some of the later additions in EU3 lifecycle to pacify returning players. The last EU3 expansion added a lot of flavor to Asia and EU4 added even more by making Japan bigger and more diverse and adding new decisions here and there. People complained but when do people ever not complain. Really I'm bitter about complaints about lack of flavour cause it's so unmeasurable and uncountable. How much flavor must there be, is 5Mb of localized unique events enough?
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Apr 1, 2024 13:51
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Frionnel posted:It's forgotten history now, but people complained that EU4 didn't have as much stuff as EU3 for years. I can bring back the "mana is bad" debate if you want
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Apr 1, 2024 14:01
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