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The Aerith and Tifa friendship in this game so is adorable.
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Mar 24, 2024 23:59
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Jimbot posted:It probably won't happen but I think if the 3rd game starts off immediately after the ending of this game and you start off controlling Aerith that'd be baller as heck. Just transition from the Bronco flying away and Aerith watching and seeing the camera whip behind her. I'm not banking on it happening in the slightest but that'd be one bananas way to get the game's narrative hooks in you. That is basically how they started off Rebirth with following up the Zack stuff.
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Mar 25, 2024 00:00
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SyntheticPolygon posted:That is basically how they started off Rebirth with following up the Zack stuff. Yeah, that's why I mentioned it. If it were something that I absolutely knew wouldn't happen I wouldn't have brought it up but playing as Zack in the opening moments was a genuine surprise for me. So the possibility is there. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Mar 25, 2024 |
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Mar 25, 2024 00:17
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Okay I think I've made my peace with the multiverse stuff now. I might still prefer a remake without it, but what we've got is still pretty rad. I'm not a huge fan of Rebirth's ending on its own--my fiancee's favorite character is Aerith and she wasn't so much sad as confused at the end, seems unfortunate--but after Rebirth I am at least confident they're going somewhere with all of this. They've definitely got my curiosity. Plus I know even if the multiverse stuff doesn't end up adding up to much, 95% or so of the next part will still be an absolutely incredible reimagining of a game I love.
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Mar 25, 2024 00:25
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honestly there's not really much from here on out that i want to see, so much as i'm interested in how it'll be portrayed. scarlet's attempted intervention on the sister ray, the revamped WEAPONs, they've got to do something to justify mideel because it's just an arbitrary wackyland in the original probably the only scene i'm really champing at the bit to redo in high-definition is the hojo battle
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Mar 25, 2024 00:27
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Shiroc posted:I'm not sad Aerith is dead, because she's not i'm sad because she's dead and tifa lost her best friend and cloud is so checked out from reality that he's unable to provide even the smallest amount of comfort to her
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Mar 25, 2024 00:33
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i do hope they tweak combat a little bit so you can actually tell when there are multiple targets on a single enemy, and you don't keep hitting the wrong ones on accident - and maybe order your party to target the same part as you too. would also makes the weapons more interesting to fight it's weird that this didn't appear to get tuned more between remake and rebirth
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Mar 25, 2024 00:46
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Augus posted:i'm sad because she's dead and tifa lost her best friend and cloud is so checked out from reality that he's unable to provide even the smallest amount of comfort to her I'm interested to see how they handle Cloud getting his poo poo together in the next part, Tifa helping him bring his mind together in the lifestream version of Kalm is one of my favourite parts of the original.
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Mar 25, 2024 02:16
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Crystal Lake Witch posted:I'm interested to see how they handle Cloud getting his poo poo together in the next part, Tifa helping him bring his mind together in the lifestream version of Kalm is one of my favourite parts of the original. someone pointed out that during that part, you can see a pattern in the sky in cloud's mind that looks suspiciously like the "rift" in the doomed worlds in rebirth. it could be nothing, but we also know that the devs for this game paid attention to a lot of details in the OG...
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Mar 25, 2024 02:21
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If the first part of the game is going north to the crater I figure it's going to be Cloud getting worse and worst until the breakdown at the crater, just in a different way than the original game. I did want Roche to be there for the snowboard minigame, but it looks like that won't be happening.
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Mar 25, 2024 03:00
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I think they could work the tonal dissonance in their favor with loopy disassociated Cloud having the most tubular snowboarding experience while everyone else in the party is like "wtf dude"
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Mar 25, 2024 03:06
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I finally seen the whole game rather than just read posts about it and I only got one thing to say. Zack telling Cloud to "save her" after she has already been "killed" is all the confirmation I need that Aerith will be unambiguously alive by the end of the third game. Makes me excited to read spoilers for the third game when it drops comparatively soon.
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Mar 25, 2024 04:39
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they want shady posted:No way to deal with Meteor if Aerith ain't dead. That is wrong and misses the point of her death.
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Mar 25, 2024 04:51
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bobjr posted:If the first part of the game is going north to the crater I figure it's going to be Cloud getting worse and worst until the breakdown at the crater, just in a different way than the original game. He could just be there, Farnsworthing his way down an advanced course. It won't really be the same without the yelling but...
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Mar 25, 2024 04:54
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Onmi posted:That is wrong and misses the point of her death. How so? Willing to be wrong on this but as far as I remember Meteor only got stopped because she prayed from the lifestream.
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Mar 25, 2024 05:24
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Aerith (and the Cetra in general) are supposedly able to commune with the Planet without actually being in the lifestream. Theoretically, this means that even if she hadn't died, she could still direct the lifestream to save the planet. This would line up with the intent of the creators of the original game who wanted to make her death completely meaningless in terms of the plot. It does nothing except to leave a hole in the party (almost literally; with all characters at the end of the game, you can only form two complete parties for the Bizarro Sephiroth fight, leaving one with only two slots filled).
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Mar 25, 2024 05:28
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But on the other hand why are the Aerith whispers trying to keep the party away at the Forgotten Capital???
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Mar 25, 2024 06:05
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Specifically the writer wanted to write a protagonist death that wasn't some kind of heroic sacrifice, both to contrast previous Final Fantasy death scenes and to evoke the feeling of hollowness he felt when his mother died.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:05
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Just to get that out of the way, I can see how Aerith's death isn,t neccesarily required to get to the same plot point. What matters Is that someone rouses the lifestream to stop Meteor. And Aerith doesn't really have to be dead to do that. What's really important about her death Is how shocking It is. There's really no good reason why she had to die. In OG FF7 It really just came down to Sephiroth having his shot and taking it. And that's just taking the logic around It at face value. Ultimately that doesn't really matter since that death was written to be a part of the narrative. It's a cruel death that sets the tone for the second half of that game. It gives some real stakes to It since a party member dies. And it's important that It was Aerith. Because she's lovable and young and she had all her future in front of her. If Barret had died we'd probably be joking about him in the same breath as commander Leo. But It was Aerith. Remake and Rebirth just took their time making her a more lovable and fully realized character. So even if the execution was confusing It hurts worse that she's gone. It's why we're seeing people twisting themselves into pretzels to rationalize how she can still be alive, no? Whether It be timelines, or the lifestream or poo poo. It's all come down to a lot of wasted words to try to make sense of an ending that's really pretty direct. It's all so effective because It hurts. And it's why it's so beautiful that her death means something at the end of it. Because it's so pointless until it's not. This doesn't have a lot to do with what you were saying. At least directly. But since you say I'm misunderstanding Aerith's death I wanted to give some fuller context around how I see It. If you still think I'm reading this wrong I don't mind and would love to read your perspective around It.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:19
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It's not really direct because unless you already know the sequence of events from the original game, it's barely legible. Cloud deflected the attack but also did not, the funeral is implied but skipped. The player interacted with at least one other 'Aerith' who gave him a materia right before she's implied to be killed by a Sephiroth. The game spent like 2 hours talking through how there are multiple timelines being chaotically merged and separated by Sephiroth. Zack is either alive or threatened with death in at least 3 seemingly mutually exclusive ways. Aerith is dead in some forks of these timelines but clearly not in others and no matter what, some concept of 'Aerith' is going to be way more present and active in part 3 than in the original, where she is just gone.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:29
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Yeah, we get its she's gotten Zack'd
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Mar 25, 2024 06:31
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The Zackification of FFVII continues unabated.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:39
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The end of 3 is all of the Zacks working together like the Johnnys except to kill cross multiversal Sephiroths instead of remodeling a hotel.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:42
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Final Fantasy VII: Rezack.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:56
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Shiroc posted:It's not really direct because unless you already know the sequence of events from the original game, it's barely legible. Cloud deflected the attack but also did not, the funeral is implied but skipped. The player interacted with at least one other 'Aerith' who gave him a materia right before she's implied to be killed by a Sephiroth. The game spent like 2 hours talking through how there are multiple timelines being chaotically merged and separated by Sephiroth. Zack is either alive or threatened with death in at least 3 seemingly mutually exclusive ways. Aerith is dead in some forks of these timelines but clearly not in others and no matter what, some concept of 'Aerith' is going to be way more present and active in part 3 than in the original, where she is just gone. Eh, the direct funeral was skipped but the party's reactions were not. I think it's all in service of telling us where Cloud is at going into part 3 (and why he's going to shred the poo poo out of those downhills as the rest of the party cries in the background). The multiple timelines might feel confusing, but I think them and the hollow materia are ultimately about showing Cloud's agency in the plot. Zack's bit in the last chapter does a lot to tie the multiple timelines with choice. So I think Cloud being the only person who can see the rift in the sky, and also the only person who's being influenced directly by Sepiroth and Aerith, is all about how he's the guy who'll have a choice in how fate plays out at the end. I'm reading this thematically with the idea that we'll end up following something similar to the original plot. So I'm absolutely willing to eat poo poo if they go wilder with it. Based on that I think what Zack and Aerith will ultimately come down to is the two people the Cloud has to learn go of, in the end. The timelines are a pretty good excuse so Cloud has to face Zack directly since he really wasn't present in the original game. Much the same with Aerith, the timelines seem like a real possibility of getting her back in the end. I'd wager we're not (other than maybe one of the last few battles) and accepting the lot he's been given is gonna be an important part of Cloud's character arc in the 3rd game.
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Mar 25, 2024 06:56
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SyntheticPolygon posted:But on the other hand why are the Aerith whispers trying to keep the party away at the Forgotten Capital??? Like the black whispers from the first game, the white whispers that try to stop you are the planet/fate/whatever still trying to course correct - assessing them tells you this outright. The ones that show up later have the rainbow sparkles coming out of their butts. Any time a timeline diverges that effect shows up. It being most apparent in the subway after Zack makes the choices to go to Shinra tower to help Cloud.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:09
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they want shady posted:Eh, the direct funeral was skipped but the party's reactions were not. I think it's all in service of telling us where Cloud is at going into part 3 (and why he's going to shred the poo poo out of those downhills as the rest of the party cries in the background). The multiple timelines might feel confusing, but I think them and the hollow materia are ultimately about showing Cloud's agency in the plot. I have to imagine they open up the third game with the party in Shinra Prison. They set up some establishing shots and do the tutorials there, and say "What the actual gently caress was happening with Cloud?" before cutting to the Snowfield and North Crater as a narrative flashback. It just feels too off for me to open the game with functionally a smash cut into snowboarding. Given the whole Zach and Aerith thing this game has going on with it. I have to imagine they are coming back in the next one. I wonder if it doesn't become the story of how Aerith actually fires off the Holy Materia from the other side - Not that I really think that part really needs it's own whole narrative arc. Maybe tie it back to the dimension thing by having Rebirth Cloud awaken in Zack Timeline Cloud's body when cloud takes the Lifestream dive in the Northern Crater. Use the knowledge Cloud gets from Zack and Aerith on that side to make some fundamental change for the last act of the third game.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:20
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It's telling that the people trying really hard to convince themselves Aerith will stay dead like their precious OG FF7 have to write five hundred long page essays but the Aerith live chads just have to fist bump Zack and go back to bed, confident in what the future will bring.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:44
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they want shady posted:Just to get that out of the way, I can see how Aerith's death isn,t neccesarily required to get to the same plot point. What matters Is that someone rouses the lifestream to stop Meteor. And Aerith doesn't really have to be dead to do that. What's really important about her death Is how shocking It is. Basically, because you're viewing it in reverse. Aerith dying doesn't mean she saves the planet. Aerith is able to save the planet despite dying. There's an important point in FF7 where the party speculates "Hey do you think maybe Aerith came knowing she was going to die?" And the response is "No. She came expecting to live." Basically, even if she managed to save the world, her death was still meaningless. It was still a tragedy. The beauty of her death is that there's no meaning to be found. In the end, even with the silver lining, it leave you feeling Hollow.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:50
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Also there is going to be a bit in part three where Zack and Cloud team up with a not evil version of Sephiroth to fight the normal evil Sephiroth that will eventually lead to the ending where there is just a normal mentally healthy Sephiroth hanging out with the rest of the cast and this is going to be in the top three things people are mad about when that game comes out.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:55
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I expect the next game to continue the 7R strat of having changes and additions not really impact the general direction of the narrative, but a lot of the stuff coming up in Part 3 isn't super iconic (basically just Wutai, return to Midgar, Junon escape & Repairing Cloud's Brain) so I expect they could slot Zack and Aerith doing stuff into like any of the Weapon or Huge Materia things without causing much friction. Biggs too I guess, considering he also escaped death.
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Mar 25, 2024 08:07
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Whitenoise Poster posted:Also there is going to be a bit in part three where Zack and Cloud team up with a not evil version of Sephiroth to fight the normal evil Sephiroth that will eventually lead to the ending where there is just a normal mentally healthy Sephiroth hanging out with the rest of the cast and this is going to be in the top three things people are mad about when that game comes out. He was in the party section of the manual dammit.
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Mar 25, 2024 08:22
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I expect the next game to continue the 7R strat of having changes and additions not really impact the general direction of the narrative, but a lot of the stuff coming up in Part 3 isn't super iconic (basically just Wutai, return to Midgar, Junon escape & Repairing Cloud's Brain) so I expect they could slot Zack and Aerith doing stuff into like any of the Weapon or Huge Materia things without causing much friction. Biggs too I guess, considering he also escaped death. Nothing is more iconic than that crane you fight in the Junon submarine port.
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Mar 25, 2024 09:50
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Whitenoise Poster posted:Also there is going to be a bit in part three where Zack and Cloud team up with a not evil version of Sephiroth to fight the normal evil Sephiroth that will eventually lead to the ending where there is just a normal mentally healthy Sephiroth hanging out with the rest of the cast and this is going to be in the top three things people are mad about when that game comes out. Hell yeah they should do this. "Relatively normal guy Sephiroth" already has precedent from chapter 1 of Rebirth as well as Crisis Core.
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Mar 25, 2024 10:49
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Joke answer: They bring in Kid sephiroth from Ever Crisis to fight Insane Sephiroth.
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Mar 25, 2024 11:09
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bewilderment posted:Hell yeah they should do this. "Relatively normal guy Sephiroth" already has precedent from chapter 1 of Rebirth as well as Crisis Core. I before playing Rebirth I was sure there was going to be a good Sephiroth fighting to be free from JENOVA-Sephiroth plotline. I was very wrong. But maybe part 3 will retroactively validate me.
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Mar 25, 2024 11:43
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I expect a Cloud / Aerith / Zack party at some point but I also think you have to end the game on the Cloud / Sephiroth 1v1. Unless they really go off the path plot wise, which would surprise me.
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Mar 25, 2024 11:47
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The Dave posted:I expect a Cloud / Aerith / Zack party at some point but I also think you have to end the game on the Cloud / Sephiroth 1v1. Unless they really go off the path plot wise, which would surprise me. The final boss will be Necron, for reasons gamers will attempt to explain for years to come.
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Mar 25, 2024 12:32
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The Dave posted:I expect a Cloud / Aerith / Zack party at some point but I also think you have to end the game on the Cloud / Sephiroth 1v1. Unless they really go off the path plot wise, which would surprise me. Maybe just have those three stomp on his balls with like zero dignity whatsoever amidst a torrent of overlapping profanities. And it’s got to go on for a long time too. https://youtu.be/Os5iSxfyjAk?si=KD5brhPMNRsImfma
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Mar 25, 2024 14:10
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| # ? May 23, 2024 21:18 |
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I expect the next game to continue the 7R strat of having changes and additions not really impact the general direction of the narrative, but a lot of the stuff coming up in Part 3 isn't super iconic (basically just Wutai, return to Midgar, Junon escape & Repairing Cloud's Brain) so I expect they could slot Zack and Aerith doing stuff into like any of the Weapon or Huge Materia things without causing much friction. Biggs too I guess, considering he also escaped death. you forgot the snowboarding section
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Mar 25, 2024 14:34
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