[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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Ardennes: May 12, 2002

It was a poor bet.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 10:35

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# ? May 26, 2024 17:31

samogonka: Nov 5, 2016

Ballbot5000 posted:

I came for the explanations as to how Ukraine puppeteered IS into commuting horrifying atrocities; but I stayed for the Russian nazi torture cops.

You mean like they puppeteered a truck driver into becoming a suicide bomber for the Crimean bridge? Or like that girl into blowing up a random blogger at a caf�?

# ? Mar 25, 2024 10:43

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

All I saw were some sonnenrads which are officially not Nazi symbols according to the rules based international order

# ? Mar 25, 2024 10:56

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

To be fair that doesn't really look like an Ukraine operation. How is it supposed to win a news cycle? Though, of course Ukraine is getting more desperate and there was a change in leadership.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 10:59

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

these guys seem particularly incompetent, more picked up off the street/telegram rather than experienced Isis operatives, so wouldn�t be surprised if the whole point of this was to cause chaos during the election not several days after it

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:03

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

fizziester posted:

... What isn�t helping, he and other lawmakers say, is the frequent talk from the frontlines about the lack of weapons and artillery shells. �You have officers going on television saying if we don't get more money and ammunition from the United States and Europe everyone at the front is going to get killed in a matter of weeks because the Russians produce many drones and have more shells,� Kniazhytskyi fumed. Such prognoses aren�t helping persuade reluctant Ukrainians like Artem to join up....

lol

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:06

hadji murad: Apr 18, 2006

it obviously wasn�t Ukraine because the attackers simply took the money offered and did the job

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:07

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

fizziester posted:

Good news for NAFOs!

____________________________________________

Source: Politico EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-faces-an-acute-manpower-shortage-with-young-men-dodging-the-draft/

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage
BY JAMIE DETTMER
MARCH 25, 2024 3:55 AM CET

__________________________________________________

!!! WARNING !!!

NAFOS DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT!

!!! WARNING!!!

__________________________________________________

KYIV � The 28-year-old is one of thousands of young Ukrainian men keeping their heads down, dodging conscription and avoiding registering their details as required. Artem is cautious when he ventures out, and avoids places like metro stations where police mount document checks looking for draft-dodgers...

... When Russia invaded their country two years ago, young and old Ukrainians swamped recruitment centers to volunteer...

... But that early burst of patriotic fervor has waned with the war now in its third year, the body bags filling, and men returning home injured and disfigured.

Pessimism about the future of the conflict is also taking hold, with ever more people questioning whether Ukraine is capable of defeating Moscow's forces.

'Sensitive' issue

Ukraine needs to draft many more men for a battlefield that is chewing up bodies, but authorities are conflicted over whether to cajole or coerce, and fear the political fallout if they choose the latter. Since the Russian invasion two years ago around 9,000 draft-evasion proceedings have been opened, according to the Ukrainian interior ministry, but that's just scratching the surface of the draft-dodging and the evasion of registration so enlistment notices can't be issued...

... The most immediate need now is to enlist more soldiers that can be deployed along the 1,000-kilometer front line ahead of an expected major Russian push toward either Kharkiv in the northeast or Odesa in the south...

... Ukraine is perilously short not only of ammunition � especially artillery shells and air defense missiles � but also of soldiers to see off a Russian attack. The average age of Ukraine�s frontline soldiers is 43 � and evidence of draft-dodging is mounting.

The BBC recently reported that 650,000 Ukrainian men of fighting age have fled the country in the past two years, most slipping across its borders with Poland and Slovakia, some with false exemption papers allowing them to exit Ukraine despite a ban on fighting-age men leaving the country.

Last year nearly 1,300 draft-dodgers found themselves before the courts, but officials acknowledge this is just a small fraction of those avoiding enlistment. A draft system is in effect to supplement the ranks of volunteers, but lawmakers say it is dysfunctional and is hampered by the failure of thousands to register their details and whereabouts. Enforcement is haphazard, depending largely on random spot checks of documents by police, who are more vigilant in some areas of the country than in others.

Moscow�s troop strength inside Ukraine currently exceeds 400,000 soldiers, with another 100,000 near Ukrainian territory. Overall Kyiv has around 680,000 active military personnel with around 200,000 on the frontlines; Russia, meanwhile, has 1.2 million, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Ukrainian army general staff said last year they feared Russia could be considering mobilizing 400,000 to 700,000 additional troops.

In December Zelenskyy said 450,000 to 500,000 extra soldiers would be needed to resist Russia in 2024. The Ukrainian parliament has for weeks been considering fresh mobilization legislation, which would see the minimum conscription age lowered from 27 to 25. The age was in fact lowered in separate legislation last July and approved by parliament, but Zelenskyy never signed it into law. He hasn't fully explained why.

The new draft legislation has been re-written several times and envisages a call-up of another 400,000 Ukrainian troops. It has stalled in the parliament, however, with lawmakers objecting to some punitive measures they regard as unconstitutional, such as restricting the property rights of draft-dodgers, impounding their cars and blocking their bank accounts.

'Hot political potato'

�That�s highly unpopular,� said Mykola Kniazhytskyi, an opposition lawmaker from Lviv. �Truth be told, mobilization is a hot political potato, and no one wants to be holding it. The army needs many more people. But Zelenskyy doesn�t want to take responsibility for the mobilization and says it is up to government ministries, and they�re afraid of getting their hands burned and say it is up to the parliament, which then passes the buck back....

... What isn�t helping, he and other lawmakers say, is the frequent talk from the frontlines about the lack of weapons and artillery shells. �You have officers going on television saying if we don't get more money and ammunition from the United States and Europe everyone at the front is going to get killed in a matter of weeks because the Russians produce many drones and have more shells,� Kniazhytskyi fumed. Such prognoses aren�t helping persuade reluctant Ukrainians like Artem to join up....

'One-way ticket'

Artem says he and his friends dodging the draft are also afraid of being stuck in combat for months or years on end. �I�m young and want to live my life, and to go there without knowing when I will return to my normal life is hard. I have friends who volunteered at the beginning of the war and they're still there fighting. So it is like a one-way ticket,� he says.

Prolonged time on the frontlines is also drawing bitter complaints from battle-weary Ukrainian combatants demanding to be demobilized or rotated out with lengthy recuperation time. Their relatives want the same thing: On Sunday, dozens of families of frontline soldiers crowded into Kyiv�s Maidan Square to demand their husbands, fathers and boyfriends be relieved from combat, arguing they�ve done their bit and now must be demobilized or given considerable rest and relaxation...

... Last month, Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Zelenskyy, said people will have to determine for themselves the price they are willing to pay for Ukraine�s independence...

... He also said that seeing the issue purely through the lens of mobilization misses the point. �It is nonsense to think in terms of sheer numbers when fighting against Russia. We live in the age of high technology. Why should people have to fight if you have enough precision weapons � drones, jammers, long-range missiles? The more tools we have in the form of precision weapons, the less gunfights we have,� he said.

But Ukraine doesn�t have enough of those high-tech weapons. Until they do, sheer numbers may well win out � and even if they do get the supplies, they still may not compensate for Russia�s greater manpower.

For Artem, there�s little that could persuade him to enlist. �My mother is a nurse and she sees the wounded and tells me firmly to stay out of it,� he says.

Woah, they should surrender. Also 25 is the min age for conscription? Am I crazy or is that like backwards, dom't you usually conscript people 18-25 not a bunch of middle aged dudes

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:18

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

genericnick posted:

To be fair that doesn't really look like an Ukraine operation. How is it supposed to win a news cycle? Though, of course Ukraine is getting more desperate and there was a change in leadership.

The fact that the US clearly going so far in the ISIS-K narrative is really suspect especially since what everyone already knows about ISIS-K. The fact they were paid doesn't help or they were fleeing toward the Ukrainian border.

There is always the debate over who gave the order, but this really doesn't seem like a random attack. Also, Ukraine was openly targeting civilians around the election and still are.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 11:23 on Mar 25, 2024

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:20

BrotherJayne: Nov 28, 2019

DaysBefore posted:

Woah, they should surrender. Also 25 is the min age for conscription? Am I crazy or is that like backwards, dom't you usually conscript people 18-25 not a bunch of middle aged dudes

I seem to recall their conscription ages being weird because the age cohort with the most training got trained under the Soviets

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:22

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

BrotherJayne posted:

I seem to recall their conscription ages being weird because the age cohort with the most training got trained under the Soviets

Also, most of the 18-25 year olds left already and the ones are in schooling, so not only would it not net a lot of warm bodies but it would be a political liability since you have to pull kids out of college.

But yeah they have been conscripting +50 year olds because they have had already some training and are from a generation that was expected to sacrifice even if they all have bad knees and families.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:26

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

lol at Zelensky refusing to lower the draft age because he's afraid of the political fallout

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:28

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

https://x.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1771895063842521339?s=20

the taliban are right :hai:

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:32

Blaisedell: May 7, 2008

Ardennes posted:

Also, most of the 18-25 year olds left already and the ones are in schooling, so not only would it not net a lot of warm bodies but it would be a political liability since you have to pull kids out of college.

But yeah they have been conscripting +50 year olds because they have had already some training and are from a generation that was expected to sacrifice even if they all have bad knees and families.

Yeah, and Ukraine's demographics for the 18-25 cohort are absolutely hosed following the collapse of the USSR

https://sceeus.se/en/publications/ukraines-alarming-demographics/

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:54

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Zodium posted:

good summary

One thing regarding crepeface's summary, the Polish Soviet war was fought from 1918-1921, from a little before the formation of the Polish state. Truly the hyena of Europe

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:54

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

DaysBefore posted:

Woah, they should surrender. Also 25 is the min age for conscription? Am I crazy or is that like backwards, dom't you usually conscript people 18-25 not a bunch of middle aged dudes

# ? Mar 25, 2024 11:58

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

https://x.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1771895063842521339?s=20

the taliban are right

many are saying "taliban ftw"

# ? Mar 25, 2024 12:02

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

Blaisedell posted:

Yeah, and Ukraine's demographics for the 18-25 cohort are absolutely hosed following the collapse of the USSR

https://sceeus.se/en/publications/ukraines-alarming-demographics/

very interesting article, 10 million ukrainians have left, 30-40% of children have left but they expect a return rate after the war of 75% using the experience of the balkans

# ? Mar 25, 2024 12:25

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

ISIS-K hole

# ? Mar 25, 2024 12:37

fizziester: Dec 21, 2023

Source: Politico EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/

Why Ukraine�s refugees aren�t going to France
BY HANNE COKELAERE AND CLEA CAULCUTT
MARCH 25, 2024 4:00 AM CET

When it comes to taking in refugees from Ukraine, France is lagging far behind the rest of the European Union.

An estimated 4.3 million Ukrainian refugees have made the bloc their temporary home since Russia�s full-scale invasion.

With the help of the EU�s �temporary protection� status, giving hundreds of thousands fleeing the war the right to work, live and study within its borders, Ukrainians moved to countries across Europe; from Poland and Finland to Spain and Ireland.

But in January, France was reporting just 64,720 refugees from Ukraine under temporary protection.

In contrast, Germany has taken in more than 1.2 million refugees while Poland has taken in nearly 1 million, according to Eurostat data. France�s number is well below that of Ireland, which is hosting more than 100,000 Ukrainians among its 5 million residents.

The data are even more remarkable when compared with countries� populations: Poland, the Baltics, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Bulgaria are hosting more than 25 refugees per 1,000 citizens.

France, by contrast, is hosting fewer than 1 per 1,000 citizens.

Part of the explanation lies in the age breakdown of the refugees European countries are hosting: Out of the nearly 65,000 people France was offering temporary protection to at the end of January, Eurostat data listed just 25 people younger than 18.

Minors can typically stay in France without a permit, so they�re rarely included in temporary protection stats, Eurostat noted.

Gerard Sadik of NGO La Cimade said an estimated 30,000 Ukrainian refugees aren�t covered in the French tally.

Language also plays a role: Slavic-speaking countries have drawn high numbers of Ukraine refugees. But as well as language, what might account for part of France�s stark disparity, analysts say, are factors such as geographical proximity to Ukraine, financial support for refugees, and a pre-established community network.

�As far as I understand, France just doesn�t match any of these three requirements,� said Evgeniya Blyznyuk, CEO and founder of research company Gradus, which has surveyed Ukraine refugees� experiences abroad.

France is �quite far away,� its financial support is �significantly lower� than that Germany is providing, and there was no major Ukrainian community in the country to begin with, she argued.

Human rights groups also point to language hurdles and France�s famed red tape and bureaucracy....

... People fleeing Ukraine have had trouble accessing information on the procedure to apply for temporary protection, social benefits and housing programs, as well as education and employment opportunities in France, said Ksenia Gedz, advocacy coordinator for Ukraine human rights organization Right to Protection. Requirements to renew their temporary protection permit had added a �new impediment,� she said...

... Khomenko said many Ukrainians are afraid about what will happen when the temporary protection expires in March 2025.

�Two years have come and gone already, and now it�s extended for just one year. The situation remains too complicated. Maybe the EU can already address that question.�

# ? Mar 25, 2024 12:51

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

https://x.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1771895063842521339?s=20

the taliban are right

dude in the red hat appears to be pointing his muzzle at the senior dude in the middle lol

# ? Mar 25, 2024 13:05

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

I do like that they have an ak at the desk so you can focus on it but the two guys flanking the dude have american m16s. Reminder of all the kit the taliban got donated

# ? Mar 25, 2024 14:59

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I do like that they have an ak at the desk so you can focus on it but the two guys flanking the dude have american m16s. Reminder of all the kit the taliban got donated

Also a G3 but yeah pretty much. The SBU supposedly was targeted in Kiev, and the government claims both missiles were "shot down."

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:07 on Mar 25, 2024

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:01

Enjoy: Apr 18, 2009

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

https://x.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1771895063842521339?s=20

the taliban are right

Conservatives will call for Muslims to condemn terror but then they never boost moderate voices like these :rolleyes:

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:08

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I do like that they have an ak at the desk so you can focus on it but the two guys flanking the dude have american m16s. Reminder of all the kit the taliban got donated

I like the bullhorn.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:12

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

mlmp08 posted:

I like the bullhorn.

You would.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:12

Engorged Pedipalps: Apr 21, 2023

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

https://x.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1771895063842521339?s=20

the taliban are right

The guy on the far left is so frustrated to be in yet another standup meeting instead of riding through the mountains on horseback, free with his brothers in jihad

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:13

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

They rotate responsibility for making the meeting powerpoint and it was his turn.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:14

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

Lmao and the cisco phone. The thought of some taliban guy having an IT desk job having to program phones and fix computers

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:15

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Lmao and the cisco phone. The thought of some taliban guy having an IT desk job having to program phones and fix computers

There was some pretty interesting article few weeks/months after the Taliban consolidated power discussing fighters� disillusionment with going from a combat force to dealing with civic bureaucracy. Stuff like having to show up on firm schedules, wages not meeting city living expenses, boredom with paperwork, no longer working with their old crews, etc.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:21

supersnowman: Oct 3, 2012

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I do like that they have an ak at the desk so you can focus on it but the two guys flanking the dude have american m16s. Reminder of all the kit the taliban got donated

It's all a mish-mash tho.

Guys in the background left to right : AR pattern, AK pattern, unharmed, AK pattern, AR pattern, Bullorn FTW, AR parttern, Radio? hidden beind the Cisco phone.
Desk : AK pattern
Foreground facing the desk : AK pattern?

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:24

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Lmao and the cisco phone. The thought of some taliban guy having an IT desk job having to program phones and fix computers

That's why you keep the collaborators and give them a second chance.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:40

Mr SuperAwesome: Apr 6, 2011; im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

https://x.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1771895063842521339?s=20

the taliban are right

the taliban are sitting on herman miller aeron chairs, better than many :burger:

office workers

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:47

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

*looks around* Taliban ftw!

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:49

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 10 hours!

my bony fealty posted:

many are saying "taliban ftw"

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:50

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Regarde Aduck posted:

*looks around* Taliban ftw!

I'm not gonna even look around I'll say it loud and proud

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:51

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Lmao and the cisco phone. The thought of some taliban guy having an IT desk job having to program phones and fix computers

Taliban John Krasinski staring into the camera

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:55

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

Regarde Aduck posted:

Taliban ftw!

# ? Mar 25, 2024 15:58

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 10 hours!

yelling Taliban ftw and dropping to do 10 pushups in the airport security line

# ? Mar 25, 2024 16:01

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# ? May 26, 2024 17:31

Forseti: May 26, 2001; To the lovenasium!

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I do like that they have an ak at the desk so you can focus on it but the two guys flanking the dude have american m16s. Reminder of all the kit the taliban got donated

That's an underfolder ak and a status symbol because they were used by soviet helicopter crews in their Afghanistan war. So if you have one, you are a badass who shot down a Hind

# ? Mar 25, 2024 16:19

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