The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Hatebag posted:

lol i never heard of that interview. appears to be this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...RbcubnyhwajpQTz
i don't have time to read it right now but lol it's on the first page

had a chance to read this quickly. dulles says allen dulles was a german spy twice and that he deliberately foiled a plot to assassinate hitler lol

also reading between the lines I'd guess he hated his nazi dad

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:31

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# ? May 25, 2024 21:08

Mandel Brotset: Jan 1, 2024

stephenthinkpad posted:

Last time when there was a large naval battle spotting the enemy carrier position was like the most critical thing. Nowadays you can spot ships from satellite, and you can send large drones to the sea that can fly for 30+ hours. You can't hide carrier group in the sea anymore.

thats why in the marvel movies they had a flying aircraft carrier

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:33

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

has the US lost WW3 yet

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:35

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

a flying aircraft carrier would be cool

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:39

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

Hatebag posted:

lol i never heard of that interview. appears to be this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...RbcubnyhwajpQTz
i don't have time to read it right now but lol it's on the first page

quote:

and she thought that if it hadn�t been for Allen W. Dulles having blown the plot to kill Adolf Hitler that her son would not have been killed

This Allen W. Dulles guy seems like he might be a problem!

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:57

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

stephenthinkpad posted:

Last time when there was a large naval battle spotting the enemy carrier position was like the most critical thing. Nowadays you can spot ships from satellite, and you can send large drones to the sea that can fly for 30+ hours. You can't hide carrier group in the sea anymore.

I think that would be China's plan was if the war took place in the 00s and there was no GWOT.

I've been told, which is to say I do not have a source to hand, that spotting even a carrier battle group by satellite isn't the easy layup it seems like.

Satellites only have coverage of an area for a limited and predictable time. If you can find it, you have ~90 minutes before that satellite comes back around and at best speed it's within a 49 miles of where you saw it last. Further, if it's cloudy in that region, it gets harder to find ships. I don't say impossible because imaging outside of visible light is certainly a capablity.

It's certainly not 1941 where you need to get lucky with someone flying nearby, but it's also not a given you'll know exactly where ships are anytime you want. Although satellites combined with radar analysis (where did the FA-18s scamper off to) and ELINT from all the radio chatter, and the noise in the ocean from these ships running around, I'm sure within a matter of days a carrier battle group would be found. 90 minutes is a long time for things on the ground to run away or hide, but 90 minutes at sea isn't that much time, and that's if there's just one satellite.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 21:59

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

That's the other thing! The US navy keeps telling people the Chinese navy is far more modern, but Westerners are still absolutely convinced of massive technological superiority.

I genuinely think that the average Westerner thinks they are at least 100 years ahead of everyone else, and also that this works like a Civ tech tree.

The Gulf War propaganda worked too well, on top of our ruling class being senile

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:01

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

The Oldest Man posted:

The US can't help but empathize with a nice white supremacist Lost Cause, and the soviets were always the strategic foe since they fall into that doesn't-count-as-european asiatic hordes trope that the US has been in love with since like 1820

The Soviets were the strategic foe from the 1920s until 1992 because they were communists, and the anglo-american imperialist system couldn't abide something like that existing. The whole Hitler/Germany/WWII thing was a temporary realignment.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:03

Votskomit: Jun 26, 2013

aw frig aw dang it posted:

has the US lost WW3 yet

Everyone's waiting for the usa to lose an aircraft carrier to mark their loss.

Personally I think the signifier will be when they lose a Burger King resupply truck on the way to a military base.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:05

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

That's the other thing! The US navy keeps telling people the Chinese navy is far more modern, but Westerners are still absolutely convinced of massive technological superiority.

I genuinely think that the average Westerner thinks they are at least 100 years ahead of everyone else, and also that this works like a Civ tech tree.

it's casual racism

i hear this all the time from people that think they're progressives. They think the Chinese are just a silly culture that doesn't know how to make things. This is often tied together with the Chinese complete willingness to just copy designs of things, especially from 'rival' nations to see if they work and if they can improve upon them. It's ghastly to the weird liberal 'rule based order' legalism poo poo but why should they care? So in the lib mind the Chinese are a special kind of idiot culture that is so bad at making things they have to copy everything. How do they square this with pictures of amazing Chinese cities, immense rail projects and massive infrastructure expansion? They don't. The only pictures or news they get about China will be heavily filtered until its a bunch of polemics and stuff about Xinjiang.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:08

NeonPunk: Dec 21, 2020

skooma512 posted:

I've been told, which is to say I do not have a source to hand, that spotting even a carrier battle group by satellite isn't the easy layup it seems like.

Satellites only have coverage of an area for a limited and predictable time. If you can find it, you have ~90 minutes before that satellite comes back around and at best speed it's within a 49 miles of where you saw it last. Further, if it's cloudy in that region, it gets harder to find ships. I don't say impossible because imaging outside of visible light is certainly a capablity.

It's certainly not 1941 where you need to get lucky with someone flying nearby, but it's also not a given you'll know exactly where ships are anytime you want. Although satellites combined with radar analysis (where did the FA-18s scamper off to) and ELINT from all the radio chatter, and the noise in the ocean from these ships running around, I'm sure within a matter of days a carrier battle group would be found. 90 minutes is a long time for things on the ground to run away or hide, but 90 minutes at sea isn't that much time, and that's if there's just one satellite.

Nowadays you don't even need a satellite. Just a team combing through social media of troops and look in the metadata of the videos and pictures they upload.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:11

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Regarde Aduck posted:

it's casual racism

i hear this all the time from people that think they're progressives. They think the Chinese are just a silly culture that doesn't know how to make things. This is often tied together with the Chinese complete willingness to just copy designs of things, especially from 'rival' nations to see if they work and if they can improve upon them. It's ghastly to the weird liberal 'rule based order' legalism poo poo but why should they care? So in the lib mind the Chinese are a special kind of idiot culture that is so bad at making things they have to copy everything. How do they square this with pictures of amazing Chinese cities, immense rail projects and massive infrastructure expansion? They don't. The only pictures or news they get about China will be heavily filtered until its a bunch of polemics and stuff about Xinjiang.

I am coming around to the conclusion that the US doesn't like to copy a successful design and do incremental improvement on it because you can't patent and copyright protect your version and thus forever rent seek on it. Also making standardized compatible accessories can't make extra money from the proprietary accessories either. Obviously in military you can't copy protect a design, but you still carry over that rent seeking mindset from the business world. Some Secretary of Defenses are straight up businessmen.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:17

Boat Stuck: Apr 20, 2021; I tried to sneak through the canal, man! Can't make it, can't make it, the ship's stuck! Outta my way son! BOAT STUCK! BOAT STUCK!

skooma512 posted:

I've been told, which is to say I do not have a source to hand, that spotting even a carrier battle group by satellite isn't the easy layup it seems like.

Satellites only have coverage of an area for a limited and predictable time. If you can find it, you have ~90 minutes before that satellite comes back around and at best speed it's within a 49 miles of where you saw it last. Further, if it's cloudy in that region, it gets harder to find ships. I don't say impossible because imaging outside of visible light is certainly a capablity.

that's only true if you're relying on low earth orbit satellites

if your geostationary satellites are good enough, you can have continuous coverage over the area of interest

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:22

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

Regarde Aduck posted:

it's casual racism

i hear this all the time from people that think they're progressives. They think the Chinese are just a silly culture that doesn't know how to make things. This is often tied together with the Chinese complete willingness to just copy designs of things, especially from 'rival' nations to see if they work and if they can improve upon them. It's ghastly to the weird liberal 'rule based order' legalism poo poo but why should they care? So in the lib mind the Chinese are a special kind of idiot culture that is so bad at making things they have to copy everything. How do they square this with pictures of amazing Chinese cities, immense rail projects and massive infrastructure expansion? They don't. The only pictures or news they get about China will be heavily filtered until its a bunch of polemics and stuff about Xinjiang.

I believe the average American literally thinks that China is a nazi gestapo state with teeming poverty, and any evidence to the contrary such as a picture of any part of contemporary China is at best a Potemkin village and at worst completely fake. if it�s not a nazi gestapo state, how are they genociding millions of Uyghurs? and if it�s not an economically backwards wreck, why was all the legitimate media saying it would collapse constantly? They keep saying that, so presumably it must have happened, right?

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:27

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Regarde Aduck posted:

How do they square this with pictures of amazing Chinese cities, immense rail projects and massive infrastructure expansion? They don't. The only pictures or news they get about China will be heavily filtered until it's a bunch of polemics and stuff about Xinjiang.

Great post.

This isn't a particularly insightful observation, but when they're ignoring Chinese modernity, it's not like they're envisioning beauty and wildness either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMMLytz8aw

They literally picture people in the poor parts of Shanghai c. 1900. They may as well assume it's all queues, rickshaws and changshan in muddy streets.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:41

DickParasite: Dec 2, 2004; Slippery Tilde

stephenthinkpad posted:

I am coming around to the conclusion that the US doesn't like to copy a successful design and do incremental improvement on it because you can't patent and copyright protect your version and thus forever rent seek on it. Also making standardized compatible accessories can't make extra money from the proprietary accessories either. Obviously in military you can't copy protect a design, but you still carry over that rent seeking mindset from the business world. Some Secretary of Defenses are straight up businessmen.

That and the federal government is no longer capable of implementing a multi-state federal infrastructure project ala the interstate system.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:52

Zeppelin Insanity: Oct 28, 2009; Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

Best Friends posted:

I believe the average American literally thinks that China is a nazi gestapo state with teeming poverty, and any evidence to the contrary such as a picture of any part of contemporary China is at best a Potemkin village and at worst completely fake. if it’s not a nazi gestapo state, how are they genociding millions of Uyghurs? and if it’s not an economically backwards wreck, why was all the legitimate media saying it would collapse constantly? They keep saying that, so presumably it must have happened, right?

It's so funny that the current zeitgeist among America fans on social media is another round of jerking off about destroying the Three Gorges Dam, with many concluding that the US does not need to bomb it, only needs to wait for it to collapse by itself. Then it will kill millions of Chinese people, and that's good, and it will be because the Communists do not value human life, which is why they are evil.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:13

Ted Wassanasong: Apr 8, 2020

ScootsMcSkirt posted:

china desperately scrambling to stave off the collapse of the US because it would be a humanitarian crisis

China propping up our failing system because they want access to our markets.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:15

Zeppelin Insanity: Oct 28, 2009; Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

A while ago there was a thing in this thread about 170mm being a good calibre, ballistically, for achieving long range. Someone claimed that no 170mm artillery achieved 60km (unless I am misremembering and the contention was 70).

Turns out North Korea figured it out back in 1978.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-1978_Koksan

Still, if the contention was 70, then I'm sure 50 years of technological development should be able to gain a few more km with a new design.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:24

hmhb fan: Feb 4, 2024

Hatebag posted:

had a chance to read this quickly. dulles says allen dulles was a german spy twice and that he deliberately foiled a plot to assassinate hitler lol

also reading between the lines I'd guess he hated his nazi dad

It's a remarkably boring interview apart from just dropping that in repeatedly

edit: and the weird thing about Princeton being Jewish

hmhb fan has issued a correction as of 23:46 on Mar 25, 2024

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:43

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

That's the other thing! The US navy keeps telling people the Chinese navy is far more modern, but Westerners are still absolutely convinced of massive technological superiority.

I genuinely think that the average Westerner thinks they are at least 100 years ahead of everyone else, and also that this works like a Civ tech tree.

Man, you're bringing back memories of when some dipshit Civ would declare war on me and I'd send my fleet of modern destroyers smoothly gliding across the ocean to wreak havoc on their ragtag collection of frigates and galleons.

Effortlessly sinking their hopeless invasion force, then doing a victory lap around their territory, destroying every vessel and trashing every tile improvement, 'cos they're not important enough for a full on conquest.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:49

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

Ted Wassanasong posted:

China propping up our failing system because they want access to our ~~markets~~ raw materials.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:52

BitcoinRockefeller: May 11, 2003; God gave me my money.; Hair Elf

Regarde Aduck posted:

it's casual racism

i hear this all the time from people that think they're progressives. They think the Chinese are just a silly culture that doesn't know how to make things. This is often tied together with the Chinese complete willingness to just copy designs of things, especially from 'rival' nations to see if they work and if they can improve upon them. It's ghastly to the weird liberal 'rule based order' legalism poo poo but why should they care? So in the lib mind the Chinese are a special kind of idiot culture that is so bad at making things they have to copy everything. How do they square this with pictures of amazing Chinese cities, immense rail projects and massive infrastructure expansion? They don't. The only pictures or news they get about China will be heavily filtered until its a bunch of polemics and stuff about Xinjiang.

There's a great example in one of the lesser Ukraine threads from today, Ukraine uses high quality western UTVs to move troops behind the front around, Russia uses lovely Chinese golf carts. Never mind that they are all made in the same factory, or that being cheaper means you can afford more.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 00:03

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

It is interesting to think of WW1/WW2 as twin intermissions that gave some temporary respite traditional Anglo ire at the Russkis.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 00:33

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

hmhb fan posted:

It's a remarkably boring interview apart from just dropping that in repeatedly

edit: and the weird thing about Princeton being Jewish

yeah that was a bit odd. apple doesn't fall far from the tree i suppose

# ? Mar 26, 2024 00:52

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Ardennes posted:

It is interesting to think of WW1/WW2 as twin intermissions that gave some temporary respite traditional Anglo ire at the Russkis.

The British were kind of forced into it, because France and Russia being in an alliance the British weren�t in was way more dangerous for them (Suez and India) than the Central Powers

# ? Mar 26, 2024 01:07

GlassEye-Boy: Jul 12, 2001

US will out produce China's navy with our out dated ship yards using imported Chinese cranes.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 01:11

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Great post.

This isn't a particularly insightful observation, but when they're ignoring Chinese modernity, it's not like they're envisioning beauty and wildness either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMMLytz8aw

They literally picture people in the poor parts of Shanghai c. 1900. They may as well assume it's all queues, rickshaws and changshan in muddy streets.

Considering the RAND paper, it's also present among the top thinkers such that they think that they can plant submarines in the Taiwan strait and that their long range missile platforms are a US advantage instead of mutual bloodbath.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 05:48

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020

Regarde Aduck posted:

it's casual racism

i hear this all the time from people that think they're progressives. They think the Chinese are just a silly culture that doesn't know how to make things. This is often tied together with the Chinese complete willingness to just copy designs of things, especially from 'rival' nations to see if they work and if they can improve upon them. It's ghastly to the weird liberal 'rule based order' legalism poo poo but why should they care? So in the lib mind the Chinese are a special kind of idiot culture that is so bad at making things they have to copy everything. How do they square this with pictures of amazing Chinese cities, immense rail projects and massive infrastructure expansion? They don't. The only pictures or news they get about China will be heavily filtered until its a bunch of polemics and stuff about Xinjiang.

Yeah, it's this. A while back I had a conversation with a client from work, a retired US Army logistics officer, who you'd assume would know better if anyone would, and he insisted that nothing else mattered, numbers, production, geography, the US military would win because our officers are taught to think for themselves, and the eastern Bolshevik hordes aren't allowed to think or show initiative. It's Hitlerism all the way down.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 07:58

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1772518180717572110?t=XByR3ID0KVL4Qx5Opbg80w&s=19

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:01

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

wow

I get it has just happened but the news is really underselling it

quote:

Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge closed to traffic after incident, Maryland officials say
"Traffic is being detoured," the Maryland Transportation Authority said.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/marylands-francis-scott-key-bridge-closed-traffic-after/story?id=108338267

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:19

Lin-Manuel Turtle: Jul 12, 2023

truly it was a bridge too far

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:20

MLKQUOTEMACHINE: Oct 22, 2012; Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

Punished Turtle posted:

truly it was a bridge too far

It's a scary AF bridge to drive over and every time I did I hoped it wouldn't collapse. A bad way to go!

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:23

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

wow

I get it has just happened but the news is really underselling it

https://abcnews.go.com/US/marylands-francis-scott-key-bridge-closed-traffic-after/story?id=108338267

Closed for cars and fish.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:26

Lin-Manuel Turtle: Jul 12, 2023

MLKQUOTEMACHINE posted:

It's a scary AF bridge to drive over and every time I did I hoped it wouldn't collapse. A bad way to go!

yeah it�s wild!

A second Truss has become a sub!

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:27

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

The British were kind of forced into it, because France and Russia being in an alliance the British weren�t in was way more dangerous for them (Suez and India) than the Central Powers

It is also the Germans just couldn�t keep the the three emperor�s alliance together when in reality, the Germans should have pushed Russian ambitions into the Balkans (with a carve out for the Austrians) and Central Asia.

The Ottomans were a poor replacement. Otherwise the French would be bottled and alone and not a serious threat and the British would be focused on the Russians.

Granted, there is a long history of the Germans as well not putting enough priority to the affairs to the east in a way that doesn�t require a massive bloodletting (look at recent events).

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

wow

I get it has just happened but the news is really underselling it

https://abcnews.go.com/US/marylands-francis-scott-key-bridge-closed-traffic-after/story?id=108338267

The US is in the �everyone stay calm, nothing to see here� phase of empires.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 08:41

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I would say this is even more fundamental. They think it's 1894.

Of course, even if the PLAN dressed like that, today, they would still come out on top.

weren't the beiyang crews cripplingly addicted to opium?

# ? Mar 26, 2024 09:21

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Tankbuster posted:

weren't the beiyang crews cripplingly addicted to opium?

Yes. Tyfys. :britain:

# ? Mar 26, 2024 09:26

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

That bridge looks a lot bigger than the Oklahoma highway bridge section which collapsed 20ish years ago and I remember that being a big deal. Is this the biggest bridge collapse in US history?

# ? Mar 26, 2024 10:14

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# ? May 25, 2024 21:08

Scallop Eyes: Oct 16, 2021

How long until that bridge is replaced/fixed (if it is at all, lol)

# ? Mar 26, 2024 10:16

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