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johnny park posted:Gotta disagree. If anything the relentless encounters drain the believability of the world - how does trade between Battahl and Vermund function when you're accosted by saurians/goblins/bandits every two minutes? If they wanted to provide life to the world while maintaining a sense of danger, they should have had strong city guard patrol groups walk the roads and independently keep them clear during the day, or maybe mercenary groups that charge travelers tolls. Then a player could attack the patrols for loot at the risk of making the road less safe for themselves in the future. That would be interesting and dynamic and believable. Right now it's just tedious That is literally something explained and justified in the game. Those things are difficult. People outside of towns die regularly. Trade is difficult and tends to involve armed guards and even then there's a good chance of getting killed doing it. It is not a smoothly functioning world, it is one where everyday life is a struggle. Like a major point of the world in Dragon's Dogma is that it is not in good shape, it is not functioning well, and a whole lot of people die regularly.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:26
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I think I've missed the fighter maister's teaching, but I could be wrong. It looks like the locations of people who can/will teach you maister skills are marked on the map with the arisen scar emblem, and if you hover over those you can see the names of the teachers. I'm not seeing Lennart on the map anywhere, and he's apparently the teacher for that one. I've read that it's missable if you don't do the Readvent of Calamity quest, but not all the DD2 info on the web has been accurate so far. Anyone run into this same issue and find a solution?
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Mar 26, 2024 21:28
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Hel posted:It doesn't, it's a main quest plot point about how they don't really have that much communication between them. I took that to mean there wasn't much diplomatic communication between them, not that there wasn't trade ImpAtom posted:That is literally something explained and justified in the game. Those things are difficult. People outside of towns die regularly. Trade is difficult and tends to involve armed guards and even then there's a good chance of getting killed doing it. It is not a smoothly functioning world, it is one where everyday life is a struggle. Like a major point of the world in Dragon's Dogma is that it is not in good shape, it is not functioning well, and a whole lot of people die regularly. I don't really find this take believable. If this were the case then why can you pay a literal pittance to ride in a barely-guarded oxcart from town to town? From how you're describing it that's tantamount to suicide and yet these drivers seem glad enough to do it day after day
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Mar 26, 2024 21:32
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johnny park posted:I don't really find this take believable. If this were the case then why can you pay a literal pittance to ride in a barely-guarded oxcart from town to town? From how you're describing it that's tantamount to suicide and yet these drivers seem glad enough to do it day after day
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Mar 26, 2024 21:34
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The game isn't realistic and there's not a single open world game that exists that has got even 10% of the way to really representing an actual functioning real world. What you're basically doing is the equivalent of "so wait, in GTA 4 New York just lets people mass murder their way through the streets and then hits them with a fine? How would this even function?" no poo poo! If you're asking these questions then you've lot the plot, the feeling isn't there, just quit dude. The game isn't for you.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:34
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I'm not the one that brought up the ludonarrative aspect of the encounter design, lol
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Mar 26, 2024 21:36
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Hel posted:It doesn't, it's a main quest plot point about how they don't really have that much communication between them. My main issue with DD2 at this point, beyond the janky UI and absence of some pretty basic QOL features like target lock (say what you will about the present softness of FROM, they always had this feature), is that this alternative open world presents a novel and debatably better flow to how quests and content are engaged, but its alternative to presentation and feel of the landscape itself is, imo, not different in a good way. By that I don’t mean the legacy of procedural jank making the world feel “dynamic” a la STALKER or Kenshi or whatever. I mean that in the early hours of the game (I’m in the middle of some Ser Bart quests) the landscape’s just… all canyons and bridges. Sometimes the world can be pretty, I guess. But to my eyes I might as well be playing through a corridor, day or night. It’s game-y, just in a different way than an Elden Ring-type “see everything from everywhere” landscape. It’s also far less beautiful or interesting to traverse.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:36
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johnny park posted:I don't really find this take believable. If this were the case then why can you pay a literal pittance to ride in a barely-guarded oxcart from town to town? From how you're describing it that's tantamount to suicide and yet these drivers seem glad enough to do it day after day People in the real world take on horrible, risky and dangerous jobs in order to earn the money needed to survive.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:36
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I'm a couple dozen of hours into the game and I can't say that the thought "I wish this game had lock-on" crossed my mind even a single time.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:40
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johnny park posted:I'm not the one that brought up the ludonarrative aspect of the encounter design, lol it's not ludonarrative, it's experiential: the world feels alive because there are monsters everywhere and not vast swathes of empty space, and it feels hostile because there are monsters that will attack you
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Mar 26, 2024 21:40
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johnny park posted:I'm not the one that brought up the ludonarrative aspect of the encounter design, lol There's a gigantic gulf between "having encounters every 20 feet means that the world is supposed to be a dangerous and hostile wilderness" and "but how would the economies of these 'capital cities' (each of which seems to house 300 people max) function?"
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Mar 26, 2024 21:40
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johnny park posted:I don't really find this take believable. If this were the case then why can you pay a literal pittance to ride in a barely-guarded oxcart from town to town? From how you're describing it that's tantamount to suicide and yet these drivers seem glad enough to do it day after day Maybe it's so cheap because you're heavily armed, the bigger the group the less likely monsters and bandits are to attack -and if they do you're extra targets. You're paying to be their security and the trade off is you get to ride on a cart that moves slower than you, but they'll let you nap along the trip. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 21:41
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Someone gave my lvl 17 pawn a ring worth 40k as a parting gift.. wonder if that was a mistake
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Mar 26, 2024 21:43
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ImpAtom posted:People in the real world take on horrible, risky and dangerous jobs in order to earn the money needed to survive. Yeah, I remember seeing someone say "the brine makes no sense! It means fishing is dangerous, but every fisherman and fishing village we see is so poor. That's just not believable" itt and I just thought "  Oh honey,"
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Mar 26, 2024 21:45
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Vermain posted:it's not ludonarrative, it's experiential: the world feels alive because there are monsters everywhere and not vast swathes of empty space, and it feels hostile because there are monsters that will attack you Fair enough. Ultimately my criticism has nothing to do with the ludonarrative aspect and I was just responding to what I thought you were talking about; in my opinion the experiential aspect is worsened because the constant largely harmless encounters have a negative overall effect on the pacing of travel and exploration. I don't feel like the world is hostile or threatening, I feel like what countblanc said - someone left a dial turned up too high
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Mar 26, 2024 21:45
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Also there's a bunch of random adventuring parties you can encounter in the wilderness that seem more than capable of handling the smaller monsters out there. I've also seen traveling peddlers out there with armed guards, though not all of them seem to have escorts.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:45
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ImpAtom posted:People in the real world take on horrible, risky and dangerous jobs in order to earn the money needed to survive. Like this isn’t fuckin Game of Thrones, this is Wheel of Time (please don’t @ me with any arguments abt how WoT is super deep). There is a guy who is a-okay with being unilaterally condemned to prison bc they get to read books and not do any paperwork, and despite being the incorruptible guy who believes in the rule of law, they won’t lift a finger on its behalf unless your breaking them out of prison can be guaranteed to allow them as much or more reading time. This is not a serious game about serious people. It’s a swashbuckling adventure. Let’s not kid ourselves.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:47
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The problem with trash mobs every few steps is that they both don't really interact with different species and it really puts on focus how few mob enemy types there are.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:47
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Yeah for a game with 5 years in development I'm honestly a bit taken aback by how few trash mobs there are. It's taken me a while to get there, to be fair.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:50
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johnny park posted:Fair enough. Ultimately my criticism has nothing to do with the ludonarrative aspect and I was just responding to what I thought you were talking about; in my opinion the experiential aspect is worsened because the constant largely harmless encounters have a negative overall effect on the pacing of travel and exploration. I don't feel like the world is hostile or threatening, I feel like what countblanc said - someone left a dial turned up too high Maybe it’s because the enemies are so unthreatening that it just becomes boring. It’s like the one guy who installed a mod, I think they had a good idea in making it threatening and I like the way travel works but any enemy that isn’t a massive monster is a joke. A few less encounters but the goblins can actually hurt you sounds better than my party of 4 just one-shotting a pile of goblins/Saurians. Maybe this changes as I get farther into the game but I feel like the game is almost too easy and hitting a more souls-like difficulty would help but I don’t know if it would gel with their combat.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:51
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*on the road, encountering a guy whose first words spoken in greeting are a short summary of their preferred small unit tactics* drat it’s like I’m there
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Mar 26, 2024 21:51
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I like how even the item descriptions & value for Onyx, Jasper, and Tiger's Eye reinforce the lack of functioning trade between the Battahl, Vermund, and the elves.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:51
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I don't mind fighting packs every couple yards but yeah I do agree that the mob diversity is disappointingly lacking.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:52
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I think your beloved gets Rosy Cheeks lol
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Mar 26, 2024 21:52
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Broken Cog posted:I think your beloved gets Rosy Cheeks lol You will have multiple just from doing their personal quests
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Mar 26, 2024 21:53
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D.Fuzzbot posted:The problem with trash mobs every few steps is that they both don't really interact with different species and it really puts on focus how few mob enemy types there are. What? I literally just played through running from the capital to the ruins where elf guy wants to do archery with you and I ran into several instances of infighting. Including one bandit/saurian/wolf battle royale which I absolutely wanted nothing to do with.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:53
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D.Fuzzbot posted:The problem with trash mobs every few steps is that they both don't really interact with different species and it really puts on focus how few mob enemy types there are. Bwuh
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Mar 26, 2024 21:54
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explosivo posted:I don't mind fighting packs every couple yards but yeah I do agree that the mob diversity is disappointingly lacking. You mean you don't like fighting packs of slightly redder wolves in Battahl? Or slightly greyer hob-goblins? Or slightly larger harpies? The frustrating thing is that there are tiny rats, spiders, and bats in caves. Just make those things like 300% bigger and ya got yourself an RPG stew cookin'
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Mar 26, 2024 21:55
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added my pawn to the spreadsheet if anyones lookin for a high 50s sorc. did not get the sorc ults yet so sadly no maelstrom or meteor but pretty good magick stat
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Mar 26, 2024 21:56
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The problem with trash mobs every few steps is that they're just fundamentally not fun or interesting or compelling. Saurians and goblins and bandits haven't made me feel like the world is actively dangerous since about hour 5, because I can kill whole groups in one or two spells and my pawns slap the rest to death (or just stand around staring at gently caress all while I do the work, so I guess the trash mobs do expose the dodgy AI). They don't drop interesting loot at this stage, they offer no reason (or really opportunity) to play with the game's more fun combat mechanics, and they don't really add to the narrative or feeling of the world because they say and do nothing except double the length of every trip because I have to stop and cast high salamander twice. Ultimately I think the game would be far better served by having fewer encounters but use more of it's bigger enemies, which are more threatening, more interesting to fight, and drop stuff I might actually care about. Like, the game is a lot of fun, but I wish I could get to the fun with a little less faffing around in between.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:58
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A curse of cliffracers upon you all.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:59
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I once saw some goblins edge a saurian into the brine of a riverbank once. Were it that I could have done something interesting as well, but I’m a fighter standing on a bridge. The most notable interactions I’ve seen have been about as interesting and logical as dragon attacks on giant camps in Skyrim. Ie, big thing fights big thing. I wouldn’t say that makes it feel like a “living world”. Especially since it’s not something I can just see in passing on my way to something else. Those beefy motherfuckers are blocking the hallway to my next errand.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:00
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Jack Trades posted:I'm a couple dozen of hours into the game and I can't say that the thought "I wish this game had lock-on" crossed my mind even a single time.  Yeah right. I love this game but lock-on would help - at least for melee.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:00
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:What? I literally just played through running from the capital to the ruins where elf guy wants to do archery with you and I ran into several instances of infighting. Straight up like 10mins after that post I made, I ran into a pack of hobgoblin fighting saurians. This is the first infighting I've seen in like 16 hours. Still wondering how they're not bumping into each other when their packs are so close together on the roads.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:01
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I feel trickster needs 3 dps pawns, this seems miserable so far.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:02
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I don't find lock-on would be that useful because for smaller groups enemies don't last long enough and you don't necessarily stay focused on a single enemy. For bigger enemies, even in Dark Souls locking on sucks for that.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:02
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Vintersorg posted:
It would certainly appeal to the rock-ribbed admirers of the game design Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 22:02
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Broken Cog posted:I feel trickster needs 3 dps pawns, this seems miserable so far. You need the damage buff skill you get from level 3 or something.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:03
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does anyone know where to find a doctor to identify a potion, the apothecary isnt helping
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Mar 26, 2024 22:04
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Yeah it would be nice if there were more enemies in that space between either Giant Dude With Five Healthbars or Group of Minor Inconveniences Your Pawns Can Handle.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:05
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