(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
|
This speed runner can do it so anyone who doesn't/can't is lazy
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:45 |
|
|
xZAOx posted:Hard disagree, personally. The campaign feels like such a chore to me, in part, because I know I have a lot of map progress to do. The campaign progression means nothing to me. Being able to be clearing the atlas while leveling up would be great. Yea agreed, maps from level 1 would go a long way. Atlas progression and better layouts would make the 1-75 process feel better. I've kinda given up on that possibility, though, cause it seems GGG have no intention of ever getting away from the campaign. So just shorten that sucker up and I'm happy
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:44
|
|
|
I wish we could make this the thread title
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:44
|
|
|
Just needs some Nearby radii to make it  External Organs posted:I wish we could make this the thread title 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:47
|
|
|
almost totally inscrutable to any but the purest of CoC enjoyers, a thing of beauty
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:48
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:50
|
|
|
Everything resetting on death means that when everyone wished for poe2 not to have labs they instead decided to make the whole game labs. Not really since at least for bosses you start at the beginning of the boss fight, but it's kind of funny.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:52
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:it's not even unspoken, ggg has said that you need the bad layouts to fully appreciate the fun layouts. personally i'm not so sure about that one i can only speak of my own experience trying to get into the game as s omeone whod been playing arpgs since d1, bouncing off it like 3 times bcos the early campaign was a miserable slog just trying to intuit thru it. the balance of skills early is completely hosed, stuff like rolling magma just tears thru the game ridiculously better than other skills from level 1. someone using that and/or holy flame totem vs my rear end coming from d2 deciding flicker strike looked cool and getting thrown around is v stark. legit the first thing on my successful first playthru was i decided to just follow a build guide, and the pohx rf guide used rolling magma for levelling and it was immediately obvious how much better it was lol and evne after that the next league i seriously played i did level my own build, using smite because i wanted to play smite, and comparing that to levelling like bane blight for my cocfr character later that league... just completely different levels entirely on how they felt in the campaign and how they dealt with everything. some raw buttons are just better than others and its super obvious.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:54
|
|
|
if you use ball lightning as your trigger spell then your full setup is Lancing Steel CoC (and) Ball Trigger
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:54
|
|
|
Im gonna hit mans with a claw
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:55
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:too lazy to learn or figure out something new brother you should not have to learn or figure out an entire build to level a character thru a campaign in an arpg. any given skill should be able to get thru what is effectively the "normal" acts with no planning or forethought, gradually adding resistance near the end of "normal" and into "hell" to push players into working out how to build what theyre playing. end game is where you respec because you hosed up and cant progress not act 2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:57
|
|
|
Tarnop posted:This speed runner can do it so anyone who doesn't/can't is lazy Just spend 500 hours perfecting the campaign you don't like (by playing and studying the campaign that you don't like) and then you too can save yourself 4-5 hours off of each campaign run. Your time will be paid back in just a few dozen leagues!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
like i already have to sit and learn or figure out a nwe build for the end game, and i want to do that because thats fun. i do not want to also do that for the part of the game i do not enjoy and i would skip if it was an option are you high
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
The first time I played the game I ran out of steam in about act 2. I think it's probably because my "six different random unlinked spells" build wasn't good enough to kill things before I ran out of mana
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:01
|
|
|
You will love poe2 where you aren’t even guarantees specific leveling skills (afaict ) in the early campaign I wonder how big a market there is for the game they want to make.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:02
|
|
|
euphronius posted:You will love poe2 where you You mean besides the thing where the game hands out items that you can redeem to get whatever level-appropriate gem in the game that you want?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:09
|
|
|
On more league starter talk: I'm still totally undecided just like every other league 1. My Gluttonous Tide Charge Stacking Scourge Arrow of Menace Raider pet build idea - Only one I've PoB'd so far. Terrible pathing, way-too-expensive gear, zdps and zehp. Prob still gonna try to force this one at some point - At the end of the day, I just can't figure out how to get decent base attack damage on a bow build when using a lovely bow. A task made even harder when it specifically has to be phys or chaos damage. Even with all the extra damage multipliers, it doesn't matter if the base number being multiplied starts off comically small - May try and shuffle things into a Slayer base. That would free up the neck slot since I'm trying to benefit from endurance charges for some reason and also fixes the base crit of the bow at least 2. Ice Crash of Cadence Something - Buffed a little in 3.24, like ~30% more damage - Could be a Champ (easy Perseverance scaling, and even more damage when you can eventually fit in Hatred), Slayer (good for attacks in general, maybe charge stacking), or maybe even Raider (if I still can't get over the charge stacking idea) - Dunno if the relative lack of AoE scaling this league is gonna make it feel like a good enough mapper for me, tho 3. Mana Stacker Hiero - Archmage is for sure gonna be good this league and more accessible than previously - Lightning Conduit of the Heavens looks cool and could be a fun one with a variety of ways to build it - An even more fun alternative could be a Kitava's Thirst BF/BB dude with automated Bladefall. If I get bored enough I may try and snag the helm on standard to test the mechanics out a little. Unsure of how it'll feel. Helm has a 50% trigger chance, so not every BB will have blades available, but with enough cast speed (and requisite mana sustain), maybe the damage will still be really good?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:10
|
|
|
whypick1 posted:You mean besides the thing where the game hands out items that you can redeem to get whatever level-appropriate gem in the game that you want? Yeah I went back and I misunderstood the recent streamer beta restrictions
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:15
|
|
|
Traitorous Leopard posted:On more league starter talk: I'm still totally undecided just like every other league For anyone planning archmage anything, we don't know yet if indigon is still going to be an uber elder drop or if they might move it to uber uber elder. If they do, holy poo poo it's going to be  expensive. Definitely a good idea to have backup plans and gear alternative ideas in mind for this build.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:40
|
|
|
I feel like the issue with mana stacking this league won't necessarily be the availability of indigon, which is probably still its own good variant of manastacking, but the fact that it seems to be getting hyped up as this big high value league starting setup which is going to make all of its gear significantly more expensive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:55
|
|
|
Dr Kool-AIDS posted:It's fun to laugh at the games journalists who couldn't progress, but realistically they're probably more representative of a lot of players I wouldn't be that harsh on the general public. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC4F6ctEO4g
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 20:58
|
|
|
Einwand posted:I feel like the issue with mana stacking this league won't necessarily be the availability of indigon, which is probably still its own good variant of manastacking, but the fact that it seems to be getting hyped up as this big high value league starting setup which is going to make all of its gear significantly more expensive. It goes both ways though, more people playing it means more people crafting for it means you can pick up failed crafts and people's previous items for cheap. Maybe fractured mana stuff will be more expensive, but that's not going to be some giant issue for most people. It's only a really big problem when there's an uncommon unique that enables the build on league start, but archmage should be plenty strong on league start to not need indigon or any other expensive unique, just rares.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:07
|
|
|
M. Night Skymall posted:It goes both ways though, more people playing it means more people crafting for it means you can pick up failed crafts and people's previous items for cheap. Maybe fractured mana stuff will be more expensive, but that's not going to be some giant issue for most people. It's only a really big problem when there's an uncommon unique that enables the build on league start, but archmage should be plenty strong on league start to not need indigon or any other expensive unique, just rares. Good luck getting the flesh and flame jewels to get past league start and go crit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:14
|
|
|
Tarnop posted:This speed runner can do it so anyone who doesn't/can't is lazy i'm refuting the claim that the number of playable skills is very limited, not saying that everyone needs to run the campaign at balaar's speed. no one needs to play the game in really any way at all Stux posted:i can only speak of my own experience trying to get into the game as s omeone whod been playing arpgs since d1, bouncing off it like 3 times bcos the early campaign was a miserable slog just trying to intuit thru it. the balance of skills early is completely hosed, stuff like rolling magma just tears thru the game ridiculously better than other skills from level 1. someone using that and/or holy flame totem vs my rear end coming from d2 deciding flicker strike looked cool and getting thrown around is v stark. legit the first thing on my successful first playthru was i decided to just follow a build guide, and the pohx rf guide used rolling magma for levelling and it was immediately obvious how much better it was lol yeah there's a few skills that are incredibly worse (flicker strike, chain hook, trying to level only using puncture or something) and a handful of skills that are very strong (and the pool of strong skills for most of the last couple of years has been actually pretty broad, like ~10 different spells below level 10 that were all good enough to be generally competitive with eachother) and then a whole bunch of skills that are middling but not bad, just usually lacking something, and in most cases that's primarily that they're mechanically weak more than that they don't do damage. sometime in the last year or two ggg did a pass over the early game gem offerings and there're far fewer bait options in there. also it seems entirely reasonable that smite, a decidedly off-meta leveling skill, was plenty good to get you through the campaign on a self-made setup and of course it performed worse than a leveling build crafted and perfected by some freaks with probably 25k hours between them. like looking through the early offerings in https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Quest_Rewards, how many bait skills do you actually see in there early on? the act 1 gems are 90% skills that are either good, useful, or at least solidly playable. Stux posted:brother you should not have to learn or figure out an entire build to level a character thru a campaign in an arpg. any given skill should be able to get thru what is effectively the "normal" acts with no planning or forethought, gradually adding resistance near the end of "normal" and into "hell" to push players into working out how to build what theyre playing. end game is where you respec because you hosed up and cant progress not act 2. the same things that make a build work late game are the same things that make a build work early game. like yeah you can just ignore the early game or refuse to learn it, but I guess just accept then that it's going to be a needlessly miserable experience because you refuse to interact with it? Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:22
|
|
|
What determines if a skill is playable? The fact that someone with hundreds/thousands of hours of campaign practice can beat the campaign with it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
Qwertycoatl posted:The first time I played the game I ran out of steam in about act 2. I think it's probably because my "six different random unlinked spells" build wasn't good enough to kill things before I ran out of mana The *very* first time I played it, I think I quit at like...zone 2. I was like "this is an ugly, boring, slow, cludgey mess". This was probably 1-2 years after release. Then when I played it for the first time again in Deli, I actually really enjoyed the campaign. Hell, I even liked Lab! It was cool and new and unique and a challenge. On repeat runs though it's just a chore. Traitorous Leopard posted:Yea agreed, maps from level 1 would go a long way. Atlas progression and better layouts would make the 1-75 process feel better. I've kinda given up on that possibility, though, cause it seems GGG have no intention of ever getting away from the campaign. So just shorten that sucker up and I'm happy To be clear, yeah, there's zero chance they ever change the PoE 1 leveling process. They do hope to improve the campaign and make more tweaks to it to make it more interesting, esp once PoE2 is shipped. I don't even hate the campaign today, it's just that it feels like "wasted time". I'm actually looking forward to the new things they added that they talked about in the announcement stream. xZAOx fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:35
|
|
|
^yeah i'm a weirdo who enjoys the campaign because there's about a billion different ways you can run it and even I think they should just start alts off in act 6 at level 44 or something.Tarnop posted:What determines if a skill is playable? The fact that someone with hundreds/thousands of hours of campaign practice can beat the campaign with it? i'd put it more that someone can pick the gem and self-assemble a build that gets through the campaign with it without too much trouble or that much game knowledge, eg stux making it through the campaign on a smite character very early on like of the first two sets of skill gems in here https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Quest_Rewards I see only one or two skills that I'd actually advise someone not to pick (chainhook, maybe cobralash?) Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:36
|
|
|
The most triggering thing ive seen with respect to league “starters” is referencing Mjolner and Indigon. I like conner converse but Mjolner could be 10+ divines at start. Indigon will likely be even more, i would guess. Unless you plan to no-life sanctum on day 1 and 2, dont “start” these builds.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:42
|
|
|
to be clear evne with the smite character it was something i had to plan out and also midway thru levelling i had to stop and go trawl through a bunch of older poeninjas etc of ppl who had played non-armor stacker so i had a better passive tree to go off of, which took a lot of time bcos it wasnt something commonly used for levelling or any builds that could be quickly adapted to it. im only confident to freehand levelling for this league bcos im starting witch and even with how bad chaos dot is end game ive levelled with it three times and you can basically just click any passives and clear the campaign with it bcos its completely braindead in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:53
|
|
|
Stux posted:yeah i guess it does actually... makes it more confusing why so many of the monolith maps have packs that are like 3 enemies just dotted around lol they said they'd look into the maps with too low density but i guess they didn't have time before launch it's also my main gripe with the game, maps they built later have decent density because they got to the part where their engine could handle it, but old ones have 3 enemies on a huge map, and there's way more old maps so you get way more empty maps in monolights, it's so stupid lmao
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:54
|
|
|
seriously i can not stress enough how badly misunderstood the poe early game is and how disconnected perceptions of strength are relative to what is actually good. i was telling anyone who would listen since 3.17 that bow leveling was in an extremely good spot (when they added precise technique, and then even more so after ggg reworked bow bases) and it objectively was despite people all repeating the same stuff about how bows are incredibly hard to level for ages. it took 3 or 4 seasons more before some racers started to take real notice of bow leveling and it wasn't until, what 3.21 or even later that LA really blew up as a starter for the masses. meanwhile bows had been literally one of the easiest things to get so much damage with ssf gear that it felt like you were playing a twink build the entire time
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:56
|
|
|
wemgo posted:The most triggering thing ive seen with respect to league “starters” is referencing Mjolner and Indigon. I like conner converse but Mjolner could be 10+ divines at start. Indigon will likely be even more, i would guess. Yeah, he make it work because he's been doing it for 10 leagues in a row. I'd say it's a good second build for almost anyone else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 21:56
|
|
|
wemgo posted:The most triggering thing ive seen with respect to league “starters” is referencing Mjolner and Indigon. I like conner converse but Mjolner could be 10+ divines at start. Indigon will likely be even more, i would guess. Speaking of, for anyone looking at how to make money on league start, Sanctum blasting is prob gonna be one of the best strats again this league. Not much chatter about it in 3.23 because of how comparatively lucrative wisp juicing was, but a solid Sanctum league starter will prob crest 10+ div/hr faster than just about any other reasonable solo strat. It's the safe bet if ya don't wanna gamble with the new league mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:00
|
|
|
Watching Ziz's interview with Mark about Necropolis. Will edit this post live.
whypick1 fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:09
|
|
|
hell artillery ballista was in it's current state as the single strongest leveling skill in the game for, what, 9 months? before people took notice of itTraitorous Leopard posted:Speaking of, for anyone looking at how to make money on league start, Sanctum blasting is prob gonna be one of the best strats again this league. Not much chatter about it in 3.23 because of how comparatively lucrative wisp juicing was, but a solid Sanctum league starter will prob crest 10+ div/hr faster than just about any other reasonable solo strat. It's the safe bet if ya don't wanna gamble with the new league mechanic. in addition to this: heist will be extremely good in the first couple of days, particularly anything giving gem rewards. the 0 brain cell plan to get 150 div asap would be to just start a build that can chain run simus within a day or two and you will get rich without having to put a single thought into mapping or juicing strats Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:09
|
|
|
There definitely tends to be streamer myopia about a lot of them game. At least with respect to people who post online about it
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:11
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:seriously i can not stress enough how badly misunderstood the poe early game is and how disconnected perceptions of strength are relative to what is actually good. i was telling anyone who would listen since 3.17 that bow leveling was in an extremely good spot (when they added precise technique, and then even more so after ggg reworked bow bases) and it objectively was despite people all repeating the same stuff about how bows are incredibly hard to level for ages. it took 3 or 4 seasons more before some racers started to take real notice of bow leveling and it wasn't until, what 3.21 or even later that LA really blew up as a starter for the masses. meanwhile bows had been literally one of the easiest things to get so much damage with ssf gear that it felt like you were playing a twink build the entire time yeh its cos no one wants to sit and theorycraft levelling!!! its loving boring!!! no one wants to sit and spend 10 hours to save 2 hours it doesnt make any sense. even the stuff youre saying about bows requires a solid and broad base of in game knowledge to even think about let alone come up with on the fly. i dont think youre understanding what ppls issue is lol. other arpgs u just pick up whatever on the ground only worrying about really basic levels of gearing and 99% of skills just blast early campaign, w the requirement to refine things being brought in gradually so you can work out what you need intuitively. if people were saying bows were hard to level but the stats didnt follow that doesnt invalidate what theyre saying at all, and having the specific knowledge required to know that also doesnt chagne it. i made the smite levelling work and once i had worked out what i needed for it it was "easy" to put it together, but going from "i do not know how anything in this game other than rf/fire trap" works to knowing that was the difficulty. and it still loving sucked compared to normal levelling builds both because of my lack of knowledge and the skill itself just isnt as good as other skills unless you can feed it a very specific twink build that then makes it an incredibly op levelling skill. poe is always going to have that problem at some point in character progression but its way way earlier than it could or should be because the campaign is just pointlessly more punishing from the word go than anything else in the genre.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:16
|
|
|
getting a good bow is literally just iding bows you find until you find one with a bunch of flat damage and equipping it. sometimes u hit a bow with an essence if the floor hasn't been generous, but i never really struggled to find a good floor bow. it's genuinely been very easy because precise technique just utterly carries bow builds early game, it just took a while to cathc on because there's a ton of poe meta inertia and the meta is mostly defined by what like a dozen streamers and youtubers are doing/saying i'd also completely argue that putting minimal amounts of time into figuring out leveling pays off many times over: this was how i leveled a few characters like 5 leagues ago, i think a grand total of 30 minutes of theorycrafting went into this, and by theorycrafting i mean putting a fireburst essence on a staff and then getting a lot of move speed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dZ7R7ppkyo Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:21
|
|
|
post your total hours pplayed in poe. now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:45 |
|
|
2 RSIs
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2024 22:25
|
|