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Yeah concrete dolphins get used to prevent this sort of thing in a lot of bridges but I'm not sure you can reasonably make one that can withstand a fully loaded panamax. Just an insane amount of force.
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Mar 27, 2024 06:58
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The way to prevent this is, has nothing to do with bridge engineering. What caused this is how ships are run, maintained and managed. Several months from now there will be a port state report from USCG. It will also certainly be discussed at IMO too.
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Mar 27, 2024 06:59
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The one thing I've seen mentioned is that bridges have structures to avert collisions called "dolphins" and that while the FSK had them, the angle the ship came in at missed them. Newer bridges apparently have improved coverage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_(structure) Ah, beaten.
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Mar 27, 2024 08:42
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They should build two bridges side by side. Then next time this happens, there will be one bridge left standing while the other is rebuilt.
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Mar 27, 2024 10:31
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Kchama posted:I never said was the 'obvious right answer', just that learning to engineer structures to RESIST is pretty important. Oh I see you're already moving the goalposts. The original post that I responded to clearly said first year engineering.
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Mar 27, 2024 10:31
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Boris Galerkin posted:Oh I see you're already moving the goalposts. The original post that I responded to clearly said first year engineering. I was uhh, agreeing with you there, dude.
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Mar 27, 2024 10:38
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bad time to be eastern seaboard regional trucker, even worse time to be a business reliant on north/south freight gently caress condition one: harbor tunnels got height/double trailer/hazardous restrictions so ! ! anything ! ! hazmat, oversize or volatiles getting rerouted 695 west while the city gets crushed with congestion from the disaster, and it will have to be that way for literal years gently caress condition two: anyone OTR or O/O will just say "no thanks" and not haul there unless you pay them some exorbitant cpm to break even on sitting they rear end in crushed beltway logjams so by my calculations, you're talking seventy five percent hosed for freight overland rates in the area with no endorsements, and one hundred percent hosed with most endorsements. everyone going to be paying the difference on this one well on the bright side at least this won't be paired with any kind of, say, overseas freight issue in the region, conceivably for months, right
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Mar 27, 2024 10:56
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Nelson Mandingo posted:
I feel like it’s maybe a barometer to where a lot of suburbs are headed. I don’t think there will be massive red state 180s but I do think that this is hopeful news for Dems and hopefully they exploit it more.
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Mar 27, 2024 12:32
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From what I'm reading, there are advances in bridge design in the past 50 years that could have at least ameliorated this, mostly putting more barriers around the bases of piers so that big rear end boats like that simply can't approach as closely. It wouldn't surprise me if the video is frequently shown in classes. It's pretty dramatic video and it's very short.
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Mar 27, 2024 12:48
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The Tacoma Narrows Bridge video is a striking example of aeroelastic flutter and dynamic modes. It shows a very specific kind of natural phenomenon that is rarely seen at such scale, but which must still be accounted for when designing structures. It's a way to give real life context and weight to engineering students about why they've been asked to spend years trying to solve differential equations and learn about aerodynamics and material properties and such. But there is no such engineering knowledge to be demonstrated from a video of a ship hitting a bridge support and the bridge collapsing. As someone said earlier, it's equivalent to showing a medical student a video of someone getting shot in the head.
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Mar 27, 2024 13:15
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I have heard that even with modern Dolphins, at the angle the ship was going it would have... just kept going over them. I also heard that a more modern design would have had more distance between each pylon allowing for more barrier stuff to be build to effectively have a nice island filled with dirt and sand in the way which would have been a lot more likely to work.
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Mar 27, 2024 13:23
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Isn;t the bigger thing here that no one told the road crew to evacuate? Like emergency services were able to close down with the warning but forgot the people working?
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Mar 27, 2024 13:24
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It's a bit of an oversight but often the only way to inform them is to walk out/drive, especially if their home office isn't open yet because it's 6 in the morning. Not necessarily a way to get a cell number or radio frequency on the spot. No way to do it without putting more people in harms way.
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Mar 27, 2024 13:42
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Mooseontheloose posted:Isn;t the bigger thing here that no one told the road crew to evacuate? Like emergency services were able to close down with the warning but forgot the people working? You can listen to the emergency response radio chatter to hear the details, but they were trying to. I believe one cop blocked traffic and was waiting for backup to come block traffic before he went down the bridge to talk to the workers. Someone else was trying to reach the company via phone too.
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Mar 27, 2024 13:55
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Mooseontheloose posted:Isn;t the bigger thing here that no one told the road crew to evacuate? Like emergency services were able to close down with the warning but forgot the people working? The total elapsed time from the ship’s initial power loss to the mayday call to the bridge coming down was apparently less than 5 minutes. Frankly the fact that they managed to stop traffic at all must have taken insane luck and quick thinking. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 14:13
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https://twitter.com/benwermund/status/1772975658278297644quote:Richman repeatedly pointed to a 2012 Supreme Court ruling that held that only the federal government has the power to enforce immigration laws. In that case, the high court struck down portions of an Arizona law that authorized police to arrest anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. I'm starting to believe that SCOTUS isn't willing to overturn Arizona
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Mar 27, 2024 14:28
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:The total elapsed time from the ship’s initial power loss to the mayday call to the bridge coming down was apparently less than 5 minutes. Frankly the fact that they managed to stop traffic at all must have taken insane luck and quick thinking.
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Mar 27, 2024 14:54
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:The total elapsed time from the ship’s initial power loss to the mayday call to the bridge coming down was apparently less than 5 minutes. Frankly the fact that they managed to stop traffic at all must have taken insane luck and quick thinking. There is a police building directly on the eastern side of the bridge, a cop on foot could have ran over to block traffic in those 5 minutes it's that close. western side they could have just hit the gates on the 695 drawbridge for the coast guard yard and blocked that route.
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Mar 27, 2024 14:57
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Nenonen posted:They should build two bridges side by side. Then next time this happens, there will be one bridge left standing while the other is rebuilt. Isn't this actually how many bridges are built? I wouldn't be surprised if failures were part of the reason.
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Mar 27, 2024 15:05
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AtomikKrab posted:There is a police building directly on the eastern side of the bridge, a cop on foot could have ran over to block traffic in those 5 minutes it's that close. western side they could have just hit the gates on the 695 drawbridge for the coast guard yard and blocked that route. Cops: known for quick thinking and running
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Mar 27, 2024 15:12
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From Washington Post .WaPo posted:Recordings from the transportation authority police radio published by Broadcastify, an open-source audio-streaming service, show officers discussing the workers on the bridge and plans to notify the foreman. But within about 20 seconds, before an officer could drive across the bridge and deliver the news, the structure plummeted into the water. And it sounds like the full audio is out there if someone wants to do more than conjecture.
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Mar 27, 2024 15:25
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GlyphGryph posted:Isn't this actually how many bridges are built? I wouldn't be surprised if failures were part of the reason. A lot of the time you see 2 long bridges next to each other is because they wanted to expand and built the other was built years after the first. It would take a lot more material to build two parallel spans instead of 1 wider one in the first place.
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Mar 27, 2024 15:26
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Also if you want to replace a bridge under normal circumstances, you build the second bridge next to the first and open it before closing the first and tearing it down, so there's no period with zero bridges availlable
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Mar 27, 2024 15:31
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/benwermund/status/1772975658278297644 scotus touched the live wire with dobbs and got burned and i dont think most of them want to do that again. I also think alot of them want more legal cover then "Make minorities/women suffer based on some 5th circut rear end in a top hat rantings. they would rather nibble around rights now.
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Mar 27, 2024 16:05
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/benwermund/status/1772975658278297644 This ruling is from the 5th Circuit, it's got nothing to do with SCOTUS (except that SCOTUS told them to rule on this themselves and stop trying to immediately kick it up to SCOTUS). Granted, the fact that even the 5th Circuit is saying the case is unlikely to survive on the merits suggests that it's DOA, but we're not really going to know SCOTUS's stance until the full case inevitably gets appealed to SCOTUS (though, given the current makeup of SCOTUS, I find it quite unlikely that there'll be five votes for overturning Arizona).
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Mar 27, 2024 16:15
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I hate Peter Baker. He's the holotype of the up-his-own-rear end, I-am-a-completely-objective-arbiter-of-reality NYT reporter. He claims to not even vote as to not bias his coverage, but you can find him saying unambigiously pro-GOP and anti-Dem things constantly. Here he is flogging an article in the Atlantic about the seldom covered issue of campus free speech. https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1772622475446161909 The author is his loving son. Main Paineframe posted:This ruling is from the 5th Circuit, it's got nothing to do with SCOTUS (except that SCOTUS told them to rule on this themselves and stop trying to immediately kick it up to SCOTUS). I understand that, I just believe that lower courts take signals from SCOTUS, and right now SCOTUS is mad at lower courts. Gorsuch in oral arguments yesterday quote:There are zero universal injunctions issued during FDR's time in office and over the last 4 years or so the number is something like 60, and maybe more than that and you are asking us to extend and pursue this remedial course which this court never adopted itself zoux fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 16:15
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Nenonen posted:They should build two bridges side by side. Then next time this happens, there will be one bridge left standing while the other is rebuilt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ2nhHNtpmk
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Mar 27, 2024 16:23
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Just build e a redundant array of inexpensive bridges
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Mar 27, 2024 16:40
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So I haven’t seen it in this thread, but if one read the NYTs article one might have seen a mention of it. There is a public free website for checking vessel port state control results. It’s called equasis. I used to use it occasionally when I did flag state work. Anyway when crap happens with a vessel like this one can check what deficiencies the vessel has had previously and get vessel particulars from the site. Separate from this incident one can use it to check out cruise ships if one is booking a cruise (don’t take cruises).
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Mar 27, 2024 17:15
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I don't remember which threads I've posted it in but it was covered in the banner yesterday:quote:The vessel was last inspected in September by the U.S. Coast Guard, which found no deficiencies, according to an online database maintained by Electronic Quality Shipping Information System. Out of the 27 inspections documented for Dali since 2015, two have found deficiencies. In 2016, the ship was found to have hull damage and in June 2023 an inspection found problems with “propulsion and auxiliary machinery.” https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/transportation/baltimore-bridge-dali-tugboat-rules-E4DIYO7MUVDOFHR7Y3YJOGOY3A/
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Mar 27, 2024 17:24
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mobby_6kl posted:Just build e a redundant array of inexpensive bridges Hear me out: ramps and aircraft carrier catapults.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:26
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mobby_6kl posted:Just build e a redundant array of inexpensive bridges With interconnects between them, so you have a fully redundant RAIB-5.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:35
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OAquinas posted:With interconnects between them, so you have a fully redundant RAIB-5. I don't know if I like how entrenched RAIB culture is becoming on this forum.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:49
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OAquinas posted:With interconnects between them, so you have a fully redundant RAIB-5. brb, mocking this up in Cities Skylines
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Mar 27, 2024 17:57
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There's all this talk about how to build bridges safely, but it's a solved problem and has been for decades
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Mar 27, 2024 17:59
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Hey any of y'all clutching pearls over tik tok the other day wanna take a moment to address this? https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/26/facebook-secret-project-snooped-snapchat-user-traffic/amp/ "In 2016, Facebook launched a secret project designed to intercept and decrypt the network traffic between people using Snapchat’s app and its servers."
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Mar 27, 2024 18:01
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Bar Ran Dun posted:So I haven’t seen it in this thread, but if one read the NYTs article one might have seen a mention of it. Morbid curiosity, and not like I’d ever go on one, but what are your reasons to dodge cruises?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:03
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The poops? I'm sure Bar Ran Dun has better reasons
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Mar 27, 2024 18:06
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Quantum Cat posted:Hey any of y'all clutching pearls over tik tok the other day wanna take a moment to address this? It looks like this project was revealed by legal actions against Facebook in US courts, as part of a major lawsuit against Facebook for engaging in exactly this sort of behavior. Which is, as I recall, exactly the kind of thing moving Tiktok to US ownership is about : making Tiktok more accessible to the US regulatory state.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:06
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FizFashizzle posted:Morbid curiosity, and not like I’d ever go on one, but what are your reasons to dodge cruises? I don't know their reasons, but for myself I don't see the benefit of paying that much money to jump in to a petri dish disease fest where it's on me to go to the court system of Madagascar or some poo poo for justice if anything happens to me or my family on the trip.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:07
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