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I find it funny how many "stealth" quests this game has when you have to literally smack into someone for them to notice you.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:24
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:What was in the base game of dd1 thats missing here? Were there more vocations? I never got that very far in the first game There were 9 vocations in DD1, but DD2 has 10 vocations. However, DD2 has trickster which is... loving weird, and warfarer which isn't really its own vocation, imho. We "lost" the assassin which was red/yellow and they swapped the GOAT mystic knight with the mystic spearhand, which actually is fine. DD1 also currently has BBI which is a big deal, but that was added in the DLC. Maybe they have something similar for DD2.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:26
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It rules because games not build around stealth shouldn't bother with their lovely painful stealth systems that they half rear end and shove in their otherwise non-stealth focused game. It owned that during the palace quests I could still just run around and rob the place blind like everywhere else in the game. My "prison break" was walking in, unlocking the door, and walking out with the dude lol
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Mar 27, 2024 18:27
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Broken Cog posted:I find it funny how many "stealth" quests this game has when you have to literally smack into someone for them to notice you. I don't think DD2 actually has a stealth mechanic. Kinda like it doesn't have a property mechanic - you can just walk everywhere and take everything. You may get a random dialogue line about how you don't belong somewhere, but it doesn't seem to matter?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:28
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jokes posted:There were 9 vocations in DD1, but DD2 has 10 vocations. However, DD2 has trickster which is... loving weird, and warfarer which isn't really its own vocation, imho. We "lost" the assassin which was red/yellow and they swapped the GOAT mystic knight with the mystic spearhand, which actually is fine. Did we actually lose anything Assassin had?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:28
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I swapped the trigger and bumper functions very early on and have no regrets. Both left and right side. It's great the game lets you customize the controller mapping directly in-game since all of the prompts and tutorials then switch to show the right inputs to use.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:28
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Broken Cog posted:I find it funny how many "stealth" quests this game has when you have to literally smack into someone for them to notice you. My multiple infiltrations of the palace have consisted of slapping on Marcher’s armor and sprinting around slamming in to every wall like the goblin I am. Sometimes also slamming in to every guard in my quest to loot the place dry and also finish the quest, I guess. Master of stealth.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:29
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Jack Trades posted:Did we actually lose anything Assassin had? Yeah, a vocation that mixed physical ranged with physical melee. You have to pick between them, or go warfarer. Assassin ruled
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Mar 27, 2024 18:30
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jokes posted:Yeah, a class that mixed physical ranged with physical melee. You have to pick between them, or go warfarer. Uhh...that's a "no" then?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:31
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Jack Trades posted:Did we actually lose anything Assassin had? not really, thief is basically perfectly functional for the job. i think it was a good change to split strider as well jokes posted:Yeah, a class that mixed physical ranged with physical melee. You have to pick between them, or go warfarer. DD1 had 3 classes that did that and i think the game is better for just turning that into 2 separate classes
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Mar 27, 2024 18:33
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Propaganda Hour posted:I don't think DD2 actually has a stealth mechanic. Kinda like it doesn't have a property mechanic - you can just walk everywhere and take everything. You may get a random dialogue line about how you don't belong somewhere, but it doesn't seem to matter? You can actually be discovered when breaking into places you're not supposed to be. I had some guards attack me in the Vernworth Gaol after they literally walked into me while I was talking with a prisoner.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:33
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Warfarer lets you mix anything and doesn't give you specific augments/skills like Assassin did. You just mix and match others. Assassin had a bunch of weird poo poo like throwing explosives and invisibility. It's not that DD1's system is better but they definitely iterated out some cool poo poo. Like Magick Archer's dagger skills where you blow poo poo up.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:33
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jokes posted:There were 9 vocations in DD1, but DD2 has 10 vocations. However, DD2 has trickster which is... loving weird, and warfarer which isn't really its own vocation, imho. We "lost" the assassin which was red/yellow and they swapped the GOAT mystic knight with the mystic spearhand, which actually is fine. I do wonder what they could have put in the "gaps" of classes. For base classes, we have one strength class (fighter), two dex classes (thief/archer), and one int class (mage). But then only fighter and mage get advanced classes (warrior/sorc). I assume that this is due to the fact that we have two base dex classes. I wonder what the advanced dex class would be, if there was one. I also think it is interesting that we get two int/dex hybrids (trickster and magic archer) and one int/str hybrid (mystic spearhand) but no str/dex hybrids.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:33
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jokes posted:Yeah, a vocation that mixed physical ranged with physical melee. You have to pick between them, or go warfarer. Assassin ruled We should all hone our skills arisen, a jack of all trades is a master of none. Imo there's not really a need for it outside of warfarer because all the melee classes I've played have had solid gap closing mechanics and if you're playing melee classes you should have at least one ranged pawn anyway. You just have to hope that you don't wind up with an archer pawn with nothing but poo poo abilities for say, a fight with a big lad on the ancient battlefield, for instance.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:34
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Honestly, the fact that most people in DD1 talked about magick archer and mystic knight so much probably made capcom decide to work on those and abandon Assassin/ranger.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:35
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Broken Cog posted:You can actually be discovered when breaking into places you're not supposed to be. I had some guards attack me in the Vernworth Gaol after they literally walked into me while I was talking with a prisoner. Weird! Did you bump into a guard for that to happen? Did they start a dialogue line, or just start swinging?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:36
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jokes posted:Warfarer lets you mix anything and doesn't give you specific augments/skills like Assassin did. You just mix and match others. Assassin had a bunch of weird poo poo like throwing explosives and invisibility. It's not that DD1's system is better but they definitely iterated out some cool poo poo. Like Magick Archer's dagger skills where you blow poo poo up. Can't you more or less replicate assassin using warfarer with a mix of thief, archer, and fighter abilities?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:36
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Propaganda Hour posted:Weird! Did you bump into a guard for that to happen? Did they start a dialogue line, or just start swinging? I'm not sure why, but during the magistrate quest the two guards patrolling the cells attacked me on sight, so I had to do some janky stealth hiding behind the columns to get the guy
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Mar 27, 2024 18:39
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I also was able to just waltz around the gaol and palace grounds without a disguise or any stealth and the guards just ignored me 
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Mar 27, 2024 18:41
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Propaganda Hour posted:Weird! Did you bump into a guard for that to happen? Did they start a dialogue line, or just start swinging? They bumped into me while I was in a dialogue with one of the prisoners, and started swinging. I basically ignored them because they never reacted before while I was running around the castle, or when I was breaking out the Magistrate.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:44
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The guards started attacking me while I was in the forbidden lab in Battahl and I was really confused, because I had already been in there looting all the rooms for a good 10 minutes before it started happening. Nobody even tried to stop me or warn me before walking right in, which kinda seems like it should be a prerequisite before attempting to kill you!
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Mar 27, 2024 18:45
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I don't know about openly looting the palace at night, but as soon as I nabbed the magistrate during the quest the guards immediately went hostile, forcing me to kill them before hoofing it out of there with the magistrate over my back
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Mar 27, 2024 18:45
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Smokebite posted:I don't know about openly looting the palace at night, but as soon as I nabbed the magistrate during the quest the guards immediately went hostile, forcing me to kill them before hoofing it out of there with the magistrate over my back
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Mar 27, 2024 18:48
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I'm nowhere near as far along as other folks in this chat it seems but I'm plugging along. I'm level 21, just tried doing The quest with the Dullahan. Here's how that went. 1) Get the quest. Think 'a Dullahan sounds really hard, I should wait until later' 2) See the quest is timed. 3) Try to rush to the quest location. 4) Fight a Minotaur. Die. 5) Fight a Minotaur. Win. 6) Run from a Drake. 7) Run from a Griffon. 8) Fall in the water about 10 times trying to get the area where the fight is actually happening because the part of the map where the quest is is surrounded by water, can't be properly mapped and has the visibility of a snowstorm at night." 9) Clear out an entire cave thinking it's a route to where the fight is happening. 10) Get to the Dullahan, fail to hurt it in any meaningful way. Quest NPC dies. 11) Revive the wrong NPC with a wakestone. 12) Revive the right NPC with a wakestone. I'm out of wakestones. Also the King of the Beggers quest is the dullest poo poo ever. Sat around and waited for him in the town square just to miss him running off to the bar. Hang around in the bar for 15 minutes until he runs off. Then I promptly lose him and can't reload to try again. This game can be hard to love sometimes.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:48
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Propaganda Hour posted:I don't think DD2 actually has a stealth mechanic. Kinda like it doesn't have a property mechanic - you can just walk everywhere and take everything. You may get a random dialogue line about how you don't belong somewhere, but it doesn't seem to matter? If you decide to read the Marcher armor’s brief descriptions using your Dark Souls brain you can take a hint that it allows for social stealth, but does it really? I don’t actually know, and the lack of savescumming means that you can’t really afford to gently caress around in order to find out. It’s definitely got the aura of a game where stealth might be gestured toward but just… not work. Getting into the dungeon in the first city was goofy, no real feedback to choices, no indication that I was doing anything right or anything at all, really. Does my accounting for mechanics which might not actually be there a merit to the game? Idk. From any objective distance this game is jank city, and like a lot of jank games its ambitions and semi-accidental system interactions make it feel novel even with its many rough edges. But it’s kind of weird to see ppl coming around on this specific game as a deliberate, holistic work without the reservations you’d see with like, Kenshi or Arcanum (which this game REALLY reminds me of) Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 18:50
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It seems I completely missed the dullahan quest, but there's an NPC who comments about how a lord wanted the watch captain's wife so he ordered the captain to go fight a dullahan. Rip that guy I guess.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:51
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For all the palace stealth missions (except the masquerade obv) I used the full marchers set and then jumped out the window of whatever room had the quest item. I remembered palace stealth in DD1 being really finicky for the meetup with Aeliniore and didn't want to take any chances running around or bumping into guards.Thundarr posted:It seems I completely missed the dullahan quest, but there's an NPC who comments about how a lord wanted the watch captain's wife so he ordered the captain to go fight a dullahan. Rip that guy I guess. You can probably still do it. I triggered the quest totally by accident because I also heard someone mention the lord way earlier and then the captain's wife approached me as I was looting her house iirc. I think it's only timed once you trigger the actual quest with her. MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 18:53
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Thundarr posted:It seems I completely missed the dullahan quest, but there's an NPC who comments about how a lord wanted the watch captain's wife so he ordered the captain to go fight a dullahan. Rip that guy I guess. RIP Gregor, you seemed a good dude
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Mar 27, 2024 18:54
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Professor Beetus posted:RIP Gregor, you seemed a good dude Saw a harpy on a cliff and tried to dive bomb it, falling into the brine, RIP
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Mar 27, 2024 18:54
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Thundarr posted:It seems I completely missed the dullahan quest, but there's an NPC who comments about how a lord wanted the watch captain's wife so he ordered the captain to go fight a dullahan. Rip that guy I guess. You can talk to his wife in the noble district and she gives you the quest to save him
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Mar 27, 2024 18:56
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Broken Cog posted:You can actually be discovered when breaking into places you're not supposed to be. I had some guards attack me in the Vernworth Gaol after they literally walked into me while I was talking with a prisoner. jokes posted:Honestly, the fact that most people in DD1 talked about magick archer and mystic knight so much probably made capcom decide to work on those and abandon Assassin/ranger. Basic Chunnel posted:My tinfoil hat take is that DD2 has benefited as a sort of “halo effect” from the phenomenon of Helldivers 2, a game where “wait is this actually working as it should” and “hmmm they didn’t really think this through” basically become features which enhance the game’s mystique. Folks are primed to be generous toward a messy game with can-do spirit.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:56
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Secret Agent Cow posted:You can talk to his wife in the noble district and she gives you the quest to save him I did pass by that lady and she told me about it but I never got a quest for it
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Mar 27, 2024 18:56
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Basic Chunnel posted:From any objective distance this game is jank city, and like a lot of jank games its ambitions and semi-accidental system interactions make it feel novel even with its many rough edges. But it’s kind of weird to see ppl coming around on this specific game as a deliberate, holistic work without the reservations you’d see with like, Kenshi or Arcanum (which this game REALLY reminds me of) a lot of this is because DD2's combat is passable-to-good depending on how much you value visual clarity and overall challenge, whereas arcanum's combat is an active hindrance to enjoying it if you don't excise it entirely Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:i mean we have dragons dogma 1 to work with to see designer intent and everything in 2 was in that game just a bit more sloppy yeah, like, DD2 is a very clear distillation and refinement of what the DD1 team was going for with the benefit of hindsight and a larger budget
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Mar 27, 2024 18:58
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Basic Chunnel posted:If you decide to read the Marcher armor’s brief descriptions using your Dark Souls brain you can take a hint that it allows for social stealth, but does it really? I don’t actually know, and the lack of savescumming means that you can’t really afford to gently caress around in order to find out. It’s definitely got the aura of a game where stealth might be gestured toward but just… not work. Getting into the dungeon in the first city was goofy, no real feedback to choices, no indication that I was doing anything right or anything at all, really. Does my accounting for mechanics which might not actually be there a merit to the game? Idk. This is a role playing game. I do not know or care whether the game has stealth systems. If they definitely had them, I would play the same way as I did without them - not getting caught, ever. I crepy around the palace avoiding guards and hiding in books so they could pass on patrols. The quest says to sneak in, not just walk to map marker like it's Skyrim, so I snuck in. The game having stealth systems or not has no bearing on whether you can play like you're sneaking.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:59
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I got attacked for looting a chest in the goal basement. The guards walking around didn't seem to pay attention to me until then. I ran away and waited a minute or so and they promptly forgot all about it and ignored me while I finished the quest to talk to the guy there.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:05
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The (assumed?) minigame of “pick the dungeon lock while you’re not in enemy LOS” feels really stupid in this game even when the basic scenario in like, PoE2 was the same and didn’t faze me. There’s something about the closer perspective, but also the fact that there’s no feedback, at all, about what’s going on or what might happen. Even Elder Scrolls titles, for all their immersion-breaking “put a pot on this guy’s head and rob him blind while he stands there” scenarios, had NPCs track you with facing to let you know you were being watched. PoE2 had LOS indicators, to tell you that a guy walking back in forth in a dungeon in the exact same manner as DD2 NPCs, was on the lookout. It’s nearly the exact same thing, a guy walking a two-point circuit , but it feels so much more janky in DD2. It might be that I’m watching that circuit from closer than isometric perspective, it might be that DD2 guards don’t seem to idle at either of their two points, so it looks like they’re getting their steps in rather than being watchful. They feel less like characters I’m outsmarting and more like laser tripwires on a track. It’s janky, in other words.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:07
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Khanstant posted:This is a role playing game. I do not know or care whether the game has stealth systems. If they definitely had them, I would play the same way as I did without them - not getting caught, ever. I crepy around the palace avoiding guards and hiding in books so they could pass on patrols. imo the castle sneak thing is funniest because the guard that guides you there the first time drops you at the worst entrance for it, if you go behind the castle there's a turret staircase that never seems to have guards in it and you dont have to walk through the greathall. honestly the castle security is really lovely. embarassing-rear end royal guardsmen
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Mar 27, 2024 19:08
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If there is a 3rd game, I would like to see more mechanics that allow the player to gently caress with the world and cause shenanigans. The ability to steal everything not bolted down, and have there be consequences for that like in other open world RPGs, such as Bethesda games, might be cool.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:08
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Sloober posted:imo the castle sneak thing is funniest because the guard that guides you there the first time drops you at the worst entrance for it, if you go behind the castle there's a turret staircase that never seems to have guards in it and you dont have to walk through the greathall. honestly the castle security is really lovely. embarassing-rear end royal guardsmen the reason she drops you there is because there's a full guardsman's set in a chest right behind the door, and they were hoping you'd intuit you could put on the full guard set and then walk around with impunity
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Mar 27, 2024 19:10
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poor ol’ pawn, thought of free will and brined
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Mar 27, 2024 19:12
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