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Kith posted:knowing that he's miserable and stressed and hemorrhaging money and all three of those things are going to be true for the foreseeable future is enough for me right now. it's a little victory and certainly not what i was promised but i'll take what i can get. the hungry man doesn't starve out of spite when the offered meal turns out to be a few morsels Knowing that women have been jailed for abortions and miscarriages because of him and he might be elected president again means his potential misery is not enough
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Mar 27, 2024 20:42
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Just tell me he's fuming and more isolated than ever
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Mar 27, 2024 20:44
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Kith posted:knowing that he's miserable and stressed and hemorrhaging money and all three of those things are going to be true for the foreseeable future is enough for me right now. yeah its amazing watching such profoundly sustained narcissistic injury play out on the most grandiose american stage possible i bet he frequently just literally throws things around the house
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Mar 27, 2024 21:01
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Staluigi posted:yeah its amazing watching such profoundly sustained narcissistic injury play out on the most grandiose american stage possible Orders his underlings to throw things at each other for him at this point
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Mar 27, 2024 21:03
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Caros posted:One would think 'court staff and the families' would include the judge's family. But apparently not. Nope. The judge and the DA are not covered, and therefore their families are likely not covered either. As is typically the case, the gag order is tailored as narrowly as possible. If there's any doubt about whether something's covered by it, the answer is typically "it's not".
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Mar 27, 2024 21:12
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Caros posted:One would think 'court staff and the families' would include the judge's family. But apparently not. A judge is not necessarily “court staff” at all. Generally a judge in a written order would refer to himself as “this court” or “the undersigned.” Something of that nature. Like someone else mentioned a judge is very much a public official and that’s often considered separate from rank-and-file employees. Like if we read an article talking about “Senate staff” I would assume it could be various staffers at any level but not Senators themselves. Same with “White House staff” etc. Kchama posted:EDIT: Like, getting the judges worked up and angry so they make a rash judgement out of emotion is the entire point of the tweets. If they do that, then he walks. Not sure Trump is that level of intentional chessmaster. Shutting up is the exercise in willpower, the rest is autopilot (or his aides).
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Mar 27, 2024 21:12
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Delay tactics denied "New court filing from E. Jean Carroll's lawyers: Trump's "great difficulty" in refraining from making defamatory statements about E. Jean Carroll and from casting doubt on whether he sexually assaulted her is so "particularly acute" that the court must reject his request for a new defamation trial and cast aside his assertions on appeal that the jury received erroneous instruction." https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1773061390795759670
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Mar 27, 2024 21:28
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OgNar posted:Delay tactics denied I have major respect for Carroll and her lawyers. While everyone else is willing to give Trump infinite amounts of benefit of doubt and excuses because he is God's perfect boy or some poo poo Carroll and her lawyers are actually holding him accountable for every time he fucks up. If only the rest of the courts were so willing to actually punish him.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:06
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Madkal posted:I have major respect for Carroll and her lawyers. While everyone else is willing to give Trump infinite amounts of benefit of doubt and excuses because he is God's perfect boy or some poo poo Carroll and her lawyers are actually holding him accountable for every time he fucks up. If only the rest of the courts were so willing to actually punish him. It's easy for lawyers to poo poo on the opposing side because that is literally their job. Judges in theory have to be neutral, and even prosecutors can only go so far in being able to show opposition.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:12
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Madkal posted:I have major respect for Carroll and her lawyers. While everyone else is willing to give Trump infinite amounts of benefit of doubt and excuses because he is God's perfect boy or some poo poo Carroll and her lawyers are actually holding him accountable for every time he fucks up. If only the rest of the courts were so willing to actually punish him. This is because we have an adversarial legal system, where the role of the plaintiff's (Carroll's) lawyer is to come down on the defendant (Trump) as hard as possible, and the judge (the neutral arbiter) is there to moderate and facilitate the process while ensuring that all the legal processes are observed and that everyone's rights are respected. It's not because Carroll's lawyers are just willing to be harder on Trump for some reason - they're being hard on Trump because being hard on Trump is literally their job.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:12
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Madkal posted:I have major respect for Carroll and her lawyers. While everyone else is willing to give Trump infinite amounts of benefit of doubt and excuses because he is God's perfect boy or some poo poo Carroll and her lawyers are actually holding him accountable for every time he fucks up. If only the rest of the courts were so willing to actually punish him. Yeah you have to give her respect. She seems to be the only person to date who has managed to enforce any kind of consequence (the paying of an appeal bond).
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Mar 27, 2024 22:19
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Kchama posted:The court system works in a particular way. Going in guns blazing on a defendant can and will get rulings on non-rich defendants who don't have sycophants waiting everywhere to get him off on a technically waiting everywhere overturned. It's specifically why judges are extra cautious about hitting Trump. it's just frustrating that everyone says this like it's a known thing throughout the legal system instead of a special rule just for trump. oddly enough when, for example, any other suspect disrespects the judge there's funny videos of defendants being "owned" for cussing in court room and sentenced to months in prison but trump could poo poo on the judge's desk and everyone in the room goes "whoa whoa whoa...let's hear his motives first" and then i get probed for thinking it's ridiculous. you literally quoted me saying so. people here say, with absolute authority, that unless they let trump get away with anything and everything he'll use that to wiggle out of a jam...and then he wiggles out anyway. all while everyone assures me that he'll get his due any day now and that just the stress of the court cases themselves are punishment enough. edit: this starts with 30 days for contempt for saying "gently caress": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooNiApJMzs InsertPotPun fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 22:22
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Isn’t insulting the Judge and their family something that normally gets you held in contempt. Like I feel he should get jailed for a few days cause of contempt. Like even a few days would cause him tons of suffering I bet, I doubt he would be able to deal with it.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:24
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Fart Amplifier posted:Knowing that women have been jailed for abortions and miscarriages because of him and he might be elected president again means his potential misery is not enough it isn't, no. but it's something. and i'll take something over nothing. even more than that, i'll definitely take something over "case dismissed". haveblue posted:Just tell me he's fuming and more isolated than ever the frustrating part is that he most definitely (and even demonstrably) is! he's obviously suffering and he's been burning through flunkies at a constant and staggering rate for years. the problem is that he's always been a miserable bastard so it's hard to tell unless you subject yourself to studying his mannerisms, which sucks enormously. additionally, he's got a seemingly endless legion of true believers willing to sign on and fall in line no matter how much evidence there is that he uses and discards people by the dozens to enable his crimes, so it's easy to forget that pretty much everyone that's ever been involved with him directly has gotten into serious trouble or effectively evaporated because he can (and does) replace them at a whim
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Mar 27, 2024 22:25
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InsertPotPun posted:i do know this, "you can't let trump lose because later he'll use that loss to win" is a very common refrain here, i mean i personally get punished for saying it but, you know, i guess i say it the wrong way? rules for me seem to be different. You're literally the only person who has said it, because that is not what anyone else is saying. This is just some impressively Trumpian "many people are saying!" stuff. As far as your video goes, yeah getting 30 days for saying 'gently caress' can be a pretty good way to get the sentence overturned on appeal. but the man wasn't just in contempt for saying 'gently caress', he also refused to show up in court and had to be dragged there, which is actually a good way to justify being given contempt. MonsterEnvy posted:Isn’t insulting the Judge and their family something that normally gets you held in contempt. Like I feel he should get jailed for a few days cause of contempt. Like even a few days would cause him tons of suffering I bet, I doubt he would be able to deal with it. Just insulting? Usually no. It usually ends up being the last straw on top of various other activities that are a lot more contempt-worthy. Actual threats, refusing to show up to court, etc. Kchama fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 22:41
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MonsterEnvy posted:Isn’t insulting the Judge and their family something that normally gets you held in contempt. Like I feel he should get jailed for a few days cause of contempt. Like even a few days would cause him tons of suffering I bet, I doubt he would be able to deal with it. If he jumps up in the middle of open court and start doing it, quite likely, especially if he’s been warned. It’s not likely at all when it’s talking poo poo on social media.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:49
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Frankly I think if a judge said "Listen I am gagging this moron because everytime he tweets vague motions towards court members, families, etc, people start getting death threatsand doxxed", it would be hard to beat on appeal. A judge is allowed to ensure neutrality and because of Trump's wide audience he is essentially tainting the entire potential jury pool. I am so goddamn sick of this poo poo.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:02
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Being held in contempt for actively mocking, creating conspiracies around, and encouraging death threats towards court staff doesn’t seem like something that would lead to an overturn on appeal for anyone, much less a “good way” to do that
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Mar 27, 2024 23:19
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The hand wringing about appeals is ridiculous, if it is the genuine reason why judges refuse to ever hold him in contempt for the now vast history of threats and intimidation against multiple courts, then the American judicial system is a total loss.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:26
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The wild thing is that there's always people willing to fall on their sword for him. Clinton built up loyalty slowly and returned it, she spent decades developing her faction within the Democratic Party through favors and patronage. Trump just has complete strangers throw their careers on the pyre and get disbarred and he forgets about them instantly.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:26
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Staluigi posted:yeah its amazing watching such profoundly sustained narcissistic injury play out on the most grandiose american stage possible
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Mar 27, 2024 23:30
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Kchama posted:You're literally the only person who has said it, because that is not what anyone else is saying. This is just some impressively Trumpian "many people are saying!" stuff. "if they punish trump now, he'll just walk later" you have to let trump win now, or he'll win later. isn't that what that means? the judge can't punish trump now, because it will make the court look rash and trump'll win on appeal later that it's unwise to punish trump, that that's what trump wants, because he'll use that rashness to win later? that's what you're saying right? quote:As far as your video goes, yeah getting 30 days for saying 'gently caress' can be a pretty good way to get the sentence overturned on appeal. but the man wasn't just in contempt for saying 'gently caress', he also refused to show up in court and had to be dragged there, which is actually a good way to justify being given contempt. the judge literally, out loud and in that video, says, out loud and in the video, "he just swore at the judge" and demands the guy apologize "gently caress no" "that'll be 60 days" not "gently caress no" "i'm going to politely request that your lawyer ask you to stop swearing" or "i'm sorry sir, i didn't hear that" or "you better stop" just *bing* instant rule. weird how that never happens to trump.
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Mar 28, 2024 00:02
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Tiny Timbs posted:Being held in contempt for actively mocking, creating conspiracies around, and encouraging death threats towards court staff doesn’t seem like something that would lead to an overturn on appeal for anyone, much less a “good way” to do that The context was the claim that this random dude got 30 days in contempt for saying 'gently caress'. It was not talking about Trump. 30 days of contempt for saying 'gently caress' is a pretty good case for appeal. InsertPotPun posted:"Like, getting the judges worked up and angry so they make a rash judgement out of emotion is the entire point of the tweets. If they do that, then he walks." Yes, because that'd make it easier to appeal the case. If you want to make sure Trump doesn't walk on appeal, you have to make sure he doesn't have anything he CAN appeal about beyond appealing the judge's final verdict on the case (which can always be appealed). This is not "Trump has to win now so he can lose later", because him getting the treatment that people should be getting from the court is not a 'win'. This is a part of doing everything by the book so Trump can't walk on a technicality. Just because bad judges exist elsewhere doesn't mean that we should have the judges on Trump's cases strive to emulate them. Kchama fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 00:02
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What is he going to appeal? "You are ordered to not discuss court employees, their families, or my family, bash me all you want" "THE CROOKED JUDGES daughters Facebook is full of NEVER TRUMP and DARK BRANDON memes SOMEONE DO SOMETHING!!! " "You are being taken into custody for violating a court order" He's going to appeal loving everything anyways no matter how flawless the court runs, so throw him in jail and let him appeal, he's going to do that regardless. And honestly, who loving cares if he appeals and wins? He's already delaying and dragging everything anyways and is walking right into the possibility of being president again. I'd happily see one of his cases blown by a judge that just smacks the poo poo out of him if it means something, ANYTHING happens to him for being a violent piece of poo poo. Throw him in prison, let the appeals court say "no it's ok to nudge your legion of morons into harassing people, you are free to go" cr0y fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 00:12
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"not being punished for your punishable behavior" is an absolute win. he gets away with it. the definition of "win"Kchama posted:Just because bad judges exist elsewhere doesn't mean that we should have the judges on Trump's cases strive to emulate them.
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Mar 28, 2024 00:15
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Judge recommends ex-Trump election lawyer John Eastman be disbarred quote:An attorney discipline judge in California has recommended that ex-Trump election lawyer John Eastman be disbarred, according to an opinion released on Wednesday. Another lackey self-immolates for Trump. 
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Mar 28, 2024 01:05
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cr0y posted:What is he going to appeal? He can appeal the order in and of itself. If it is too broad it can be struck down. And actually if his post had been "DO SOMETHING ABOUT HER!" then yeah that would probably violate the gag order. But at a read of it, shittalking the judge's daughter in general doesn't. He got gagged because his shittalking prior before had the element of "DO SOMETHING!" and was also directed against witnesses. InsertPotPun posted:"not being punished for your punishable behavior" is an absolute win. he gets away with it. the definition of "win" He's not really going that far beyond the bounds of regular defendants. He can also argue about being too harshly punished for his violation of the gag order. Like that dude who got 90 days for saying 'gently caress' has a pretty good case, for example. Judges get shittalked all the time, and also explicitly threatened. Generally anything below 'explicit threats' doesn't tend to get you too much trouble. It definitely won't help your case, it's very common that that kind of shittalking just gets you removed from the courtroom until the judge thinks you've learned your lesson (or you do it at sentencing and it makes the judge decide you aren't remorseful and deserve a harsher penalty). Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 01:07
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Trump spending a week in jail for contempt of court would be the biggest punishment hes ever faced. At this point I would take it over the endless dragging and appealing for the other cases.
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Mar 28, 2024 01:11
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the moose posted:Trump spending a week in jail for contempt of court would be the biggest punishment hes ever faced. At this point I would take it over the endless dragging and appealing for the other cases. I dunno, the 500m he's on the hook for is a pretty big punishment, especially if he can't actually pay all of it.
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Mar 28, 2024 01:13
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Kchama posted:I dunno, the 500m he's on the hook for is a pretty big punishment, especially if he can't actually pay all of it. It’s not a punishment until it’s actually been disgorged. Until then it’s simply a threat which can be reduced or eliminated on appeal, or simply ignored. The fact that the bond has (a) already been cut by two thirds and (b) still not taken effect is testimony to this. And frankly if his billionaire acquaintances are willing to cover it, or he really gets a gigantic windfall from Truth Social, or is elected anyway and given carte blanche to exact revenge, will it really be a punishment to him at all?
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Mar 28, 2024 01:26
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Tayter Swift posted:It’s not a punishment until it’s actually been disgorged. Until then it’s simply a threat which can be reduced or eliminated on appeal, or simply ignored. The fact that the bond has (a) already been cut by two thirds and (b) still not taken effect is testimony to this. It's a future punishment, but that doesn't make it NOT a punishment. The bond being cut was a reasonable thing since bonds are meant to be payable and if he doesn't have the money... Of course, him bragging about having the money after getting it cut could potentially gently caress him over, but it's unclear if the judges want to hit him for that. I would argue that they should. But like, the appeal is happening anyways, the bond just means his poo poo isn't being taken in the meantime. So it'll be funny if he still fails to pay the bond. As for the other, the billionaire acquaintances covering the bond is I believe illegal in New York, which is (surprisingly) why he didn't do that. He has to trust in Truth Social which is uh... certainly a gamble, especially if he's not allowed to sell or borrow against the stocks for six months. Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 01:41
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He bragged about having the money before it got cut.
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Mar 28, 2024 01:45
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Tiny Timbs posted:He bragged about having the money before it got cut. Sorry, I thought he had bragged AGAIN after it got cut. Which is actually worse than bragging openly about it before while quietly showing paperwork saying "Look we ain't got poo poo" which is apparently what happened.
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Mar 28, 2024 01:50
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DarkHorse posted:I get why lots of people are feeling despondent , heck I've felt fatalistic and the ennui that comes from seeming futility, but Trump hasn't won yet. He got an extension for the song of musical chairs he's playing, but he's steadily losing options for when the music does finally stop for real. I appreciate this comment and line of thought, but knowing that money delays and deflects justice is one thing but seeing it is another. No one on this thread or forum could worm out of paying bonds and penalties like this man has done and he's done it many times. If we couldn't make say a $1000 bond we'd be hosed, but Il Douche gets 2/3 discount and an extra week. In no way would you or I ever be allowed to blast our opinions about the judge on social media and not be held in contempt. Donny Dollhands has been breaking the rules his entire life and he's not done yet. It's true, he hasn't won yet and he might not, but I can't think of anyone who has done more damage and not had to pay the consequences over and over.
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Mar 28, 2024 01:52
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Deteriorata posted:Judge recommends ex-Trump election lawyer John Eastman be disbarred ahahahahaha aahahahahaha hhahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
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Mar 28, 2024 02:18
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If the loan fraud case fine every actually goes into effect, it will absolutely positively be slashed to something below $200 million at best. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 28, 2024 03:13
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Asproigerosis posted:If the loan fraud case fine every actually goes into effect, it will absolutely positively be slashed to something below $200 million at best. Why do you think that?
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Mar 28, 2024 04:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Isn’t insulting the Judge and their family something that normally gets you held in contempt. Like I feel he should get jailed for a few days cause of contempt. Like even a few days would cause him tons of suffering I bet, I doubt he would be able to deal with it. If you do it in the courtroom, yes. If you make vaguely mean tweets on social media, absolutely loving not. You're allowed to publicly express your personal dislike of a judge, as long as you're not directly disrupting the courtroom by doing so. That's classic First Amendment poo poo. While judges do have the power to limit someone's speech outside the courtroom, their exercises of that power have to be as limited and narrowly-tailored as possible. Pissing off the judge is, however, pretty much always a bad idea in the long run. Not because it leads to any immediate smackdown, but because as a general rule of thumb, it's generally a good idea to stay in the good graces of the person in charge of deciding how the rules apply to you. While judges are obligated to be fair and neutral regardless of what the defendant may have done to personally annoy them, it's dangerous to risk shifting the needle even the tiniest bit in cases with stakes like these. Asproigerosis posted:The hand wringing about appeals is ridiculous, if it is the genuine reason why judges refuse to ever hold him in contempt for the now vast history of threats and intimidation against multiple courts, then the American judicial system is a total loss. To be clear, the reason judges are refusing to hold him in contempt is because people don't get held in contempt for tweets, basically ever. It's got nothing in particular to do with appeals, beyond the fact that it would be an obviously bad call in violation of legal principles and precedent. Contempt is a nuclear option designed to preserve the basic functioning of the courtroom, not a blanket punishment that a judge can throw around at a whim in response to mildly annoying exercises of someone's First Amendment rights outside the courtroom. Even when the person in question is so popular that their negative tweets cause problems for the court! cr0y posted:What is he going to appeal? The judge isn't "court staff" (according to the arcane legal jargon being used in the order, anyway), and neither he nor his family is covered by the order. If the judge ordered his arrest over those tweets about the judge's daughter, his lawyers would appeal on the grounds that the judge's daughter was not covered by the order, and the appeals court would immediately uphold the appeal and overturn the contempt order probably before he ever sees the inside of a prison cell.
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Mar 28, 2024 04:43
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Automatic Slim posted:I appreciate this comment and line of thought, but knowing that money delays and deflects justice is one thing but seeing it is another. No one on this thread or forum could worm out of paying bonds and penalties like this man has done and he's done it many times. If we couldn't make say a $1000 bond we'd be hosed, but Il Douche gets 2/3 discount and an extra week. In no way would you or I ever be allowed to blast our opinions about the judge on social media and not be held in contempt. Donny Dollhands has been breaking the rules his entire life and he's not done yet. I could easily
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Mar 28, 2024 05:06
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Kchama posted:It's a future punishment, but that doesn't make it NOT a punishment. The bond being cut was a reasonable thing since bonds are meant to be payable and if he doesn't have the money... No, the purpose of the appellate bond is to preserve the status quo created by the judgment against the appellant, so he can't hide assets or just waste them on expensive lawyers. Based on my research, it takes more than just saying "I'll have to sell some stuff for potentially less than fair market value" to justify varying the bond. Forcing a large business into bankruptcy will potentially do it, or in the Texaco-Pennzoil case the reason was "this judgment is literally 10 times the amount of surety bonds available on the entire planet," or "the case under appeal is the confirmation of a chapter 11, where assets will be distributed to 15,000 claimants and it will be a colossal pain in the rear end to track it all down again." Other options include placing assets in escrow other than via a surety bond, or the defendant being a publicly traded company whose audited financial statements show a net worth of several times the value of the bond, or the defendant being the state of New York, which can just tax all the money it needs. (These are all from cases that were cited by Trump's lawyers in favor of reducing the bond). But Trump hasn't pled the risk of bankruptcy; there is only one claimant; and someone who engaged in real estate fraud doesn't have audited financial statements showing that the judgment is covered. This is why everyone's mad. Hobologist fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 06:26
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