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DeadlyMuffin posted:Isn't this how you make peace? If you have generations of people who, as they are educated (presumably by the government!) respond with horror at the atrocities of the Nazi era generation that seems like exactly the right response. When that younger generation is in power (which they are) they will know better. I would've wished for truth and reconciliation commissions and public acknowledgments--in Germany, this might've included bans on participation in any form of government for former Nazis. This would've been tough, because you lose a lot of that famous Nazi Managerial efficiency, but worth it. You don't lose the war and then put the genocidaires back into positions of power because it would be too hard to do it right, unless you do, and that's the extremely hosed moral compromise the Allies encouraged. Ideally former Nazis would not be able to carry any form of identification that didn't acknowledge that status, either. It should've been a badge of shame you couldn't escape until you died. The reason those children respond with horror is because entire generations that preceded them were not honest with themselves or their children about their national crimes and their own personal complicity. So they failed. They hosed up on being honest and open and saying "humans can become this. I will live with this shame until I die. Do not become what I did. Reject what I could or would not." instead they just pretended nothing was wrong. It didn't work. So no, I'm not going to give them any loving credit whatsoever for deciding to just not talk about the big Genocidal Oopsie until their kids were forced to learn what Grandpa was up to back then and screamed it out of them.
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Mar 29, 2024 01:30
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Your Brain on Hugs posted:When German Jews make up much less than 1% of the population, but make up more than 35% of those who have been arrested under antisemitism laws, that should tell you something about Germany's relationship with its Jewish population. Guilt over the Holocaust is certainly a part of why Germany supports Israel to the extent it does, but it's also because having a Jewish Homeland that's not in Germany means there are that many less Jews who might otherwise be living in Germany. Can you provide a source for that number?
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Mar 29, 2024 01:32
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Paladinus posted:Would you agree that Amin al-Husayni's ties with Hitler have profound influence on Palestinian politics today? Do you also believe that the current government of Germany is choke-full of crypto-nazis who, through support of Israel (and very little else, apparently), try to make thousands of Jewish Germans leave the country? Curious as to why you would think a British appointee in the 20s would have anywhere near equivalent influence on current history compared to the holocaust and would be worth bringing up repeatedly. Probably nothing to think about. TheDoublePivot fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 01:43
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TheDoublePivot posted:Curious as to why you would think a British appointee in the 20s would have anywhere near equivalent influence on current history compared to the holocaust and would be worth bringing up repeatedly. Probably nothing to think about. Because like I don't think that Scholz is hiding a full-back swastika tattoo and is secretly craving to expel all German Jews from the country to Israel, I also don't think that Hamas' top brass keep Mein Kampf in Arabic on their nightstand and want to expel every Jewish Israeli from the river to the sea. Why would Germany try to attract huge numbers of Jewish immigrants if they didn't want any Jews in the country? It's absurd.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:05
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TheDoublePivot posted:Curious as to why you would think a British appointee in the 20s would have anywhere near equivalent influence on current history compared to the holocaust and would be worth bringing up repeatedly. Probably nothing to think about. Always interesting when they break out the Grand Mufti. One foreign-appointed bigot 100 years ago somehow always trumps decades of current apartheid politics, bantustans, in addition to overt declarations by israeli leader holding office regarding their aim of jubjugating/expelling/eliminating palestinians. al-Husayni bewitched Hitler into doing the Holocaust with his muslim magic arts, but Ben-Gvir moving to get tens of thousands of rifles to arm his death squads is just another inconsequential day at the office.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:05
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You said this in another post “The nazis' attempt at getting rid of the Jews has no direct influence on politics of the modern Germany”. This is completely asinine, what other reason would the German government feel compelled to throw themselves on the Israeli grenade at The Hague? Old link for reference https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-says-will-intervene-at-the-hague-on-israels-behalf-blasts-genocide-charge/amp/ Unless they’re utterly consumed with thirst for weapons profits and Muslim deaths.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:13
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Sephyr posted:Always interesting when they break out the Grand Mufti. One foreign-appointed bigot 100 years ago somehow always trumps decades of current apartheid politics, bantustans, in addition to overt declarations by israeli leader holding office regarding their aim of jubjugating/expelling/eliminating palestinians. Who are 'they'? I specifically said that al-Husayni's ties with Hitler have zero impact on modern Palestine's ideology, even though Israeli officials like Ben-Gvir love to postulate that all modern Palestinian independence movements are secretely nazi. TheDoublePivot posted:You said this in another post “The nazis' attempt at getting rid of the Jews has no direct influence on politics of the modern Germany”. Again, the original claim that I was disputing was that the German government is trying to force the country's Jewish population to leave for Israel. Do you agree with this claim? Paladinus fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 02:16
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selec posted:I would've wished for truth and reconciliation commissions and public acknowledgments--in Germany, this might've included bans on participation in any form of government for former Nazis. This would've been tough, because you lose a lot of that famous Nazi Managerial efficiency, but worth it. You don't lose the war and then put the genocidaires back into positions of power because it would be too hard to do it right, unless you do, and that's the extremely hosed moral compromise the Allies encouraged. Ideally former Nazis would not be able to carry any form of identification that didn't acknowledge that status, either. It should've been a badge of shame you couldn't escape until you died. It can be simultaneously true that Germany did a lovely job de-Natzifying and that the modern German nation's stance toward Israel is not motivated by antisemitism. You brought up the phenomenon of German children reacting with horror when learning what their parents elders did. The median age in Germany is about 45. Most German children now *were* those children, or their children.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:26
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DeadlyMuffin posted:It can be simultaneously true that Germany did a lovely job de-Natzifying and that the modern German nation's stance toward Israel is not motivated by antisemitism. Yeah, no one is immune to propaganda, and citizens of western nations are a highly propagandized people, cradle to grave. It works. If you don’t have a framework for what to make of it outside of the liberal hegemon, what else can you do but make this an individualist catharsis where you scream at grandpa and call it a day? Without an understanding of the system grandpa was part of, and how much of that system remains unreconstructed, well, here we are.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:31
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I apologize, everyone, but this thread has not been meeting D&D standards for informative or productive discussion or debate. We also have not been able to keep up with the number of reports it's generated. Accordingly, I must close it for the time being. Hopefully when reports are cleared and we've worked out a moderation strategy, possibly involving an additional mod and/or IK, the thread will be reopened. In the mean time, it goes without saying, I must ask everyone to refrain from discussing this particular issue in other threads.
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Mar 29, 2024 07:10
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Update: I've found a few IK candidates and will try to have this thread opened ASAP, hopefully tomorrow, so the recent developments regarding Israel can be discussed.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:24
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Welcome back, everyone. The thread now has Esran, Irony Be My Shield, and punishedkissinger as IKs. Hopefully this, along with having a couple users removed, will improve the things significantly. As always, please be clear and honest in how you argue, treat other users with respect, and ensure the points you make are as original and rigorous as possible so that they're interesting for everyone else to read.
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Apr 7, 2024 18:43
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Glad to see the thread is open again. I’ve been mostly lurking but this thread has been one of the better ways to keep up with the situation. It really sucked having to scourge the internet for unbiased news and vetting sources.
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Apr 7, 2024 18:48
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Good luck to the IKs, and I hope the thread is not too taxing to manage.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:02
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Koos Group posted:Welcome back, everyone. The thread now has Esran, Irony Be My Shield, and punishedkissinger as IKs. Hopefully this, along with having a couple users removed, will improve the things significantly. As always, please be clear and honest in how you argue, treat other users with respect, and ensure the points you make are as original and rigorous as possible so that they're interesting for everyone else to read. Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first?
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Apr 7, 2024 19:48
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lmao, good job
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Apr 7, 2024 19:49
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glorious
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Apr 7, 2024 19:51
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? incredible
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Apr 7, 2024 19:52
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? Duty calls without warning. I believe in you.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:53
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? Yes. That's how Main Paineframe became one. But I'll remove you if you really want.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:55
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Koos Group posted:Update: I've found a few IK candidates and will try to have this thread opened ASAP, hopefully tomorrow, so the recent developments regarding Israel can be discussed. Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? Lol, so how were IK candidates even identified if they weren't even asked?
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Apr 7, 2024 19:55
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OctaMurk posted:Lol, so how were IK candidates even identified if they weren't even asked? It was via nominations from PMs to me and discussions in the mod forum.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:56
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This is just how conscription works. Suck it up
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Apr 7, 2024 19:57
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Glad to see my organization isn't the only one that makes management decisions without bothering to consult the people who are most affected by them.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:59
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Service guarantees citizenship.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:59
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I dont know what kind of past life atrocities strain your karma enough that you wake up and find yourself conscripted to moderate this thread but whatever your past life did esran shame on then
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Apr 7, 2024 19:59
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Koos Group posted:Yes. That's how Main Paineframe became one. But I'll remove you if you really want. Okay. Yes, please do.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:01
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? I thought it was a proud goon tradition that people just woke up one day with buttons (and then accidentally merge the entire forums into a single thread, or whatever that mess was); you're part of a long history.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:02
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Koos Group posted:Yes. That's how Main Paineframe became one. But I'll remove you if you really want. Koos Group posted:It was via nominations from PMs to me and discussions in the mod forum.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:02
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Rappaport posted:I thought it was a proud goon tradition that people just woke up one day with buttons (and then accidentally merge the entire forums into a single thread, or whatever that mess was); you're part of a long history. Yep. A long time ago full mods were chosen that way, and weren't even given a private message explaining it. They were expected to eventually notice their buttons and start using them.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:03
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Koos Group posted:Yep. A long time ago full mods were chosen that way, and weren't even given a private message explaining it. They were expected to eventually notice their buttons and start using them. 
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Apr 7, 2024 20:05
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? Lmfao
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Apr 7, 2024 20:07
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? lol
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Apr 7, 2024 20:15
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Koos Group posted:Yep. A long time ago full mods were chosen that way, and weren't even given a private message explaining it. They were expected to eventually notice their buttons and start using them. That works for less serious threads, not a place like this lol
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Apr 7, 2024 20:17
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Should’ve done this on April 1st tbh.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:18
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Esran posted:Thanks, but I don't think I want to be IK'ing this thread. Is it normal to appoint people IK without asking first? goldmine
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Apr 7, 2024 20:18
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Injuryprone posted:Service guarantees citizenship. I would like to know more
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Apr 7, 2024 20:19
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Taeke posted:That works for less serious threads, not a place like this lol I would say the opposite, that it is well-suited for serious and contentious threads that people might be hesitant to IK. And if they ultimately refuse, they can be removed with no harm done. Better to ask forgiveness than permission, and so on.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:22
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Why not make top 20 thread posters IKs? That should ensure that there is a healthy breadth of opinions on the topic represented and there is always an IK around to at any time of day. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 7, 2024 20:24
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Koos Group posted:And if they ultimately refuse, they can be removed with no harm done. Jesus Koos Group posted:Better to ask forgiveness than permission, and so on. Not really the thread for this kind of talk imho
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Apr 7, 2024 20:26
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