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Gripweed posted:Does Night of the Living Dead count, or by "Hollywood" are you explicitly ruling out indies? Naah this fits. By Hollywood I meant US (or European actually) productions that would have been viewed on US screens. Because presumably Nollywood films shown in Nigeria were more likely to have had a black protagonist earlier on. And Bollywood films shown in India presumably had mostly South Asian protagonists since that start. And I don't just mean 'minority' as in non-white. Although... if anyone knows the first time that a Maori starred in a Bollywood production or a Japanese woman in a Nigerian one that would also probs be pretty interesting but I'm not crossing my fingers on anyone knowing stuff like that.
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Mar 30, 2024 13:37
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The Black character’s race is definitely a big factor in Night of the Living Dead.
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Mar 30, 2024 13:40
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It definitely adds a lot of subtext, but Romero said several times the script wasn't specifically written for a black man and he was cast because he was simply the best actor who auditioned.
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Mar 30, 2024 13:47
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Yeah, I just don’t believe that. Obviously that’s possible and even likely about the script, but I din’t think the final film was a serendipitous accident the way he claims.
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Mar 30, 2024 13:52
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Failed Imagineer posted:Shaft was just a very good detective/sex machine, Richard Roundtree's race was irrelevant When was the last time you've seen Shaft. There's a whole potential race war black power angle going on underneath the kidnapping case.
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Mar 30, 2024 15:04
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Gaius Marius posted:When was the last time you've seen Shaft. There's a whole potential race war black power angle going on underneath the kidnapping case. I mean I thought that was a pretty obvious joke. Not a funny one, but an obvious one. He's the Black Private Dick that's a Sex Machine to all the Chicks!
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Mar 30, 2024 15:13
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Edit: beaten, n/m
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Mar 30, 2024 15:33
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Never got into Shaft. Just feels like they could have followed me around for a week and made the same movie. The reason I turn on a film in the first place is to get away from all the sexy ladies lungibg themselves at me.
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Mar 30, 2024 15:35
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Baron von Eevl posted:It definitely adds a lot of subtext, but Romero said several times the script wasn't specifically written for a black man and he was cast because he was simply the best actor who auditioned. This is only half the story though because yes, Ben wasn’t initially written as a black man, but when Duane Jones was cast Romero edited the script fairly significantly to accommodate Jones’ performance. The initial version of ben as written was a much more thuggish and threatening character, compared to Jones’ severe but practical performance.
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Mar 30, 2024 16:58
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Yeah I've always seen it simply as Romero didn't intend to cast a black man in the role but once he did he was a smart guy who knew what he was doing.
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Mar 30, 2024 17:23
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I think that in the original script Ben was a stubborn and confrontational yokel truck driver.
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Mar 30, 2024 17:37
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Baron von Eevl posted:It definitely adds a lot of subtext, but Romero said several times the script wasn't specifically written for a black man and he was cast because he was simply the best actor who auditioned. He said that kinda poo poo alot. Like Dawn of the Dead oh it's about consumerism, huh that's the first I heard of that didnt mean it, just thought about malls and zombies
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Mar 30, 2024 17:41
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I mean it's not a film about consumerism it's a film about zombies but it makes a number of digs at consumerist culture using the metaphor of zombies as rampant consumers even if that metaphor isn't held throughout. Whether the idea for having it set in a mall and the ending scene being what it is came up as the original premise or these were decisions made afterwards is something I don't know but maybe had been revealed somewhere. Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 18:07
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Bright Bart posted:I mean it's not a film about consumerism it's a film about zombies but it makes a number of digs at consumerist culture using the metaphor of zombies as rampant consumers even if that metaphor isn't held throughout. The zombies don't represent consumers; they represent abject lepers, babies/toddlers, and the devout (see the prominent 'Hare Krishna' and Catholic nun zombies). These zombies are actually fairly easily to satiate, requiring 'only' a small amount of human flesh to be rendered permanently docile. They literally want for nothing else. It's the human protagonists who sort-of represent consumers, insofar as they become fixated on collecting luxury goods like TVs and stuff, but capitalism is already over when the film begins. The focus is squarely on their spiritual emptiness (which leads them to mistreat the poor, contemplate abortion (in Fran's case), and otherwise stray from the spiritual traditions of their ancestors).
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Mar 30, 2024 20:01
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It's both. The zombies are a commentary on consumerism on a pretty basic level. When stripped of all higher thought and reduced to basically a flesh automata operating on the most basic instinct, what do they do? Go to the mall. But at the same time they also represent the threat to the order that the survivors create inside the mall. That's where the real commentary on consumerism is in the movie. Once the survivors have secured the mall they have literally endless consumer goods and endless time to enjoy them, and what happens? They instantly start to go insane. The hare krishna zombie is because that's funny. The zombies as a threat to middle class order don't map 1 to 1 on any real group, but they don't have to, because middle class fear of the outsider is incoherent to the middle class themselves. Mindless hordes coming for them. It very similar to how the Them in Us are somewhat incoherent on their own; they only exist as representation of middle class in fear. Actually, that's a very good point I just made. Us is a remake of Dawn of the Dead. Boom, beat SMG to it.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:37
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"The mall is full of mindless fucks." - Demonius X
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Mar 30, 2024 20:40
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Idea Short film about someone working in a store in the mall during the zombie apocalypse and they don't even notice a difference. Everyone else is freaking out and/or a flesh eating ghoul but the main characters act like they're in Clerks and never realize something is different than usual because it barely is.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:46
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FreudianSlippers posted:Idea This happens in Shaun of the Dead for a while, from what I recall.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:50
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FreudianSlippers posted:Idea I just rewatched Gusti the Strong and enjoyed it every bit as much as the first time (if not more). It's hilarious.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:33
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Gripweed posted:It's both. The zombies are a commentary on consumerism on a pretty basic level. When stripped of all higher thought and reduced to basically a flesh automata operating on the most basic instinct, what do they do? Go to the mall. But at the same time they also represent the threat to the order that the survivors create inside the mall. That's where the real commentary on consumerism is in the movie. “Being in a mall” is not what consumerism is. The zombies not only don’t consume anything (like, not even metaphorically; there’s surprisingly little consumption of flesh after they reach the mall), but they can also be found in a variety of other locations such as airports and apartment buildings. When the character Stephen is bitten and zombified, he’s immediately compelled to head out of the mall proper, and into what’s effectively his condo. While Stephen theorized that this pilgrimage to the mall was based on “some kind of instinct - memory of what they used to do. This was an important place in their lives”, the irony is that the mall is not important to the zombies because of the clothes or TVs. The zombies are drawn to places where they expect human people to be, so that those humans can be bitten and converted. As a result of this compulsion to be near people, they have - however unintentionally - repurposed the mall to serve as a communal space. This is why zombie Stephen is not satisfied with the mall, instead immediately departing to reunite with his friends and family. Stephen was wrong about what was important to the zombies, and wrong in general.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:52
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You say the zombies don’t consume, yet in the next paragraph you say they go to where they expect people will be. I disagree with the idea that the zombies at that point in the Living Dead series “expect” anything, I would argue that the evidence supports the character’s statement that the zombies are simply repeating the familiar. And the idea that even when you are dead you still go to the mall is a joke about consumerism. Regardless of whether or not you actually engage in commerce when you get there. But accepting your premise for the purpose of discussion, why do the zombies go to where people are? To [i]consume[i] them. It’s literally their main thing. It’s been awhile since I saw the movie but I don’t remember zombie Stephen reuniting with his friends and family at the end.
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Mar 30, 2024 23:46
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While I think there are meant to be riffs on consumerism in the movie, it gets overblown because literal zombies milling about a mall is just enough Symbolism 101 for people to latch onto and feel smart.
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Mar 31, 2024 01:29
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therattle posted:I just rewatched Gusti the Strong and enjoyed it every bit as much as the first time (if not more). It's hilarious. Thanks a million. Literally couldn't have done it without you. I'm really happy how well it's being received.
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Mar 31, 2024 01:31
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I watched more than half of Frontier. The basic idea is that this is an adaptation of a classic novel from a country that doesn't exist. All the characters speak a made up central European language, there are references to a revolution, etc. I will give them points for actually getting the shape of a classic novel right. Two soldiers are sent to the nebulous "frontier" where they immediately go insane. The senior soldier declares himself to be in charge of this empty region of forest, the younger one starts to treat the forest like a woman he wants to gently caress. I can see this being some European novel with lots of political relevance to a country I don't know anything about. But in reality, this is an incredibly low budget movie where two guys walk around what is very clearly central Texas speaking fake German. I did enjoy the scenery. I was teleported back to camping trips of my youth. Central Texas is a lovely place and basically no movies use it. Honestly that's probably what got me so far into the movie before I checked the runtime, saw I had half an hour left, and decided I'd gotten basically all I was going to get out of it.
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Mar 31, 2024 02:00
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The main thesis of Dawn of the Dead is that the material comforts of the developed world only appear to offer security from the chaos.
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Mar 31, 2024 02:30
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Help, I’ve fallen into a Kenny Rogers Western Tubi-hole.
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Mar 31, 2024 04:18
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Detective No. 27 posted:Help, I’ve fallen into a Kenny Rogers Western Tubi-hole. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo
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Mar 31, 2024 04:27
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Maxwell Lord posted:The main thesis of Dawn of the Dead is that the material comforts of the developed world only appear to offer security from the chaos. drat, that aged all too well.
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Mar 31, 2024 04:34
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I don’t think there are many pop stars today that could star in five two part movies based on one of their hit songs over the course of fourteen years. A lot of great character actors too. I’m gonna have to watch MacShayne now that I’ve finished them.
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Mar 31, 2024 04:46
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Detective No. 27 posted:I don’t think there are many pop stars today that could star in five two part movies based on one of their hit songs over the course of fourteen years. A lot of great character actors too.  Also I did not know there were more than two Gambler movies and you're telling me they're all on Tubi??? Incredible fortune  When I was a kid I would watch reruns of the The Real West documentary series he hosted, and Wikipedia says that show was the reason the History Channel got made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_West quote:The Real West is an American historical documentary television series hosted by Kenny Rogers which first aired on A&E cable television from 1992 to 1995. One of A&E's highest-rated[1] series, it prompted parent company A+E Networks to create The History Channel to show reruns of The Real West and other new original programming, primarily documentaries.
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Mar 31, 2024 05:09
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Detective No. 27 posted:I don’t think there are many pop stars today that could star in five two part movies based on one of their hit songs over the course of fourteen years. A lot of great character actors too. The secret is to die in your sleep
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Mar 31, 2024 05:10
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Gripweed posted:But accepting your premise for the purpose of discussion, why do the zombies go to where people are? To consume them. It’s literally their main thing. That’s not what consumerism is either. Consumerism, at least in this context, is an ideology where it’s asserted that political power belongs to those who purchase the goods and services. Like, the concept of ‘vote with your wallet’ taken to an illogical extreme. True believers in consumerism insist that it’s not actually the capitalist class who should (or that do) hold the power in a capitalist society; those who control the means of production are ostensibly at the mercy of those who pay for the goods and services produced. We see this in practice with, say, people bitching on the internet about Disney movies - directing complaints at the corporation via Twitter or whatever. Elon Musk’s recent “tell it to Earth” meltdown was, fundamentally, consumerist. (And, despite his complexion, Elon Musk is not a zombie - not even metaphorically.) For us to have a satire of consumerism, you need the two sides of the transaction: those who buy, and the entities they buy from. You need to examine that power relationship, and how it can be misperceived. If the zombies are consumers, the characters trying to supply their demand are the one-legged priest and the one-eyed scientist (who observe that the zombies can be pacified with small quantities of meat). So, do they represent corporations? You gotta show your work here. Now, again, Dawn Of The Dead does vaguely qualify as a satire of consumerism because the protagonist characters are presented as unable to escape capitalist ideology even after capitalism has collapsed. It’s a recurring joke, along the same lines of them grabbing handfuls of worthless money ‘just in case’. The simple, basic irony of Stephen’s theory that the zombies are driven by a “memory of what they used to do” is that he’s actually talking about himself. But the movie is also not really about consumerism, because nothing actually is being bought from anyone. Nothing is being bought at all, making the protagonists more like hunter-gatherers influenced by the artifacts of a dead society (see the curious scene in the gun shop). Cargo culting. So another irony here is that you yourself have been mystified by the mall setting. Without the network of socio-economic relationships, a mall is just a large indoor space. Like a colourful barn. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 05:13
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My eyes are clear and my mind unclouded. I can now understand why Robin Williams fails as an actor. He never acts, he performs. He cannot exist inside the world of the film, there must be an implied audience with which to view his work. There are none else who come to mind but there must be others alike, I assume I'll also dislike these
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Mar 31, 2024 05:28
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He seems like a fine actor to me. Liked him in Insomnia.
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Mar 31, 2024 05:44
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That was the film I've just seen that has revealed this all to me. He's never talking to Pacino, he's always talking to the audience
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Mar 31, 2024 05:46
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Detective No. 27 posted:I don’t think there are many pop stars today that could star in five two part movies based on one of their hit songs over the course of fourteen years. I need the Lady Gaga Pokerface Cinematic Universe stat.
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Mar 31, 2024 06:24
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Gaius Marius posted:My eyes are clear and my mind unclouded. I can now understand why Robin Williams fails as an actor. He never acts, he performs. He cannot exist inside the world of the film, there must be an implied audience with which to view his work. Counterpoint: Popeye Less flippant, really love Robin in Birdcage, What Dreams May Come, Jumanji, Toys, Death to Smoochy, and the aforementioned Popeye. Will admit a big ol' soft spot for the guy, but even if he wasn't a great actor, cant' think of a picture I was disappointed to see him show up in. Or one that he seemed to half-assing it through. It's that particular brand of celebrity character that's too famous to be a character actor but elicits the same response. Fred Armisen is kind of a paragon of that ethos - he plays characters in a range, but he nails it just enough where I'm always happy to see him in the odd role even if it is a 30 second cameo. CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 08:50
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Gaius Marius posted:My eyes are clear and my mind unclouded. I can now understand why Robin Williams fails as an actor. He never acts, he performs. He cannot exist inside the world of the film, there must be an implied audience with which to view his work. 
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Mar 31, 2024 09:07
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Detective No. 27 posted:Help, I’ve fallen into a Kenny Rogers Western Tubi-hole. You’ve got to know when to walk away, and when to run.
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Mar 31, 2024 09:35
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Gaius Marius posted:My eyes are clear and my mind unclouded. I can now understand why Robin Williams fails as an actor. He never acts, he performs. He cannot exist inside the world of the film, there must be an implied audience with which to view his work. This is some Good Will Hunting and Dead Poet's Society erasure.
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Mar 31, 2024 09:50
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