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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Well, they don't seem to be a fan of blue people, based on Episode 4. That's the thing, though, they kill a bunch of bug people in a fight with other Viltrumites. They definitely don't care about killing them, but they also don't go out of their way to do it. We never see what life is like for occupied planets. For all we know they're all high-functioning utopias. Optimus Prime rebelled, but we don't know why. Like what do the space gods do after they take over that sucks so much?
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Mar 30, 2024 19:33
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honestly it really brings nolan's original point into perspective mark, you will live for thousands of years. yes you'll still have your dad. these people actually are just.......ants.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:42
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Spanish Matlock posted:We never see what life is like for occupied planets. For all we know they're all high-functioning utopias. Optimus Prime rebelled, but we don't know why. Like what do the space gods do after they take over that sucks so much? Surely the act of hostile takeover, in and of itself, needs to be opposed. But that's not something the show really does justice by. Nolan conquered the planet of the space bugs, but the show just sort of acts like he married into being their God emperor and that's somehow fine despite the power disparity and the fact that he's their new leader and all.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:52
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Open Source Idiom posted:Surely the act of hostile takeover, in and of itself, needs to be opposed. He didn't conquer that planet. They willingly put him in charge after an act of kindness (and in the comic, it was literally just because the Emperor is whoever is the oldest living person in the world). The people choosing you to lead is significantly different from forcing them into compliance. That's the first test. The second test is whether or not you willingly surrender power if and when they choose somene else.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:06
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 Also they probably stole most of their tech from the planets they invaded over the millennia.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:10
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Spanish Matlock posted:That's the thing, though, they kill a bunch of bug people in a fight with other Viltrumites. They definitely don't care about killing them, but they also don't go out of their way to do it. We saw them terrorizing Allen’s world.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:11
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did we see that cos i missed that
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Mar 30, 2024 20:26
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What's interesting here is that he says that it's legal to kill the weak on Viltrum. What about subject planets? What does it mean to be a subject planet? Are Viltrumites just going around punting people when they're mad? Do they occasionally do 100 nine elevens after a bender? The portrayal of Viltrumites in the show is as people who fly around and fight extremely strong people by preference. Omniman kills an entire subway and most of Chicago etc. etc. but it's incidental to what he's actually doing.MonsterEnvy posted:We saw them terrorizing Allen’s world. We saw them attacking Allen's world. We know that their offer is join or die, but what does join look like that it causes people to choose die? The show is eliding over the tyranny necessary to make that choice meaningful.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:28
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Spanish Matlock posted:It's crazy how different your perspective would be if you lived 2000 years, and I think the show really did a good job of making the comparison with the bugs. Like how far could any of the humans really care about an individual bug. Have you heard of this anime called Frieren? It deals a lot with this concept. The first season just wrapped and the manga is ongoing if you want to check it out.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:35
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Spanish Matlock posted:What's interesting here is that he says that it's legal to kill the weak on Viltrum. What about subject planets? What does it mean to be a subject planet? Are Viltrumites just going around punting people when they're mad? Do they occasionally do 100 nine elevens after a bender? The portrayal of Viltrumites in the show is as people who fly around and fight extremely strong people by preference. Omniman kills an entire subway and most of Chicago etc. etc. but it's incidental to what he's actually doing. Omniman kills a bunch of people because they are less than nothing to him. I suspect that would be true for most Viltrimites. Please do not be fooled by the space fascists jfc.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:52
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YouTubeTekReviewer posted:Have you heard of this anime called Frieren? It deals a lot with this concept. The first season just wrapped and the manga is ongoing if you want to check it out. Frieren is great! The different lifespans of different people is also one of the main focal points of Delicious in Dungeon which is among the various reasons why that one is good.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:53
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Omniman kills a bunch of people because they are less than nothing to him. I suspect that would be true for most Viltrimites. it was a joke btw, i know they're evil and insane
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Mar 30, 2024 21:11
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I think Anissa's pitch is in a weird place because when she said that 20 years ago in the comics our world was in a different place. There are future plot points in the comics that may not even be approached in the show (because we might not get that many seasons) that focus on climate change and things like that that could argue were "novel" at the time of publishing because we weren't at the crisis point we are now. I can't really tell if they've stated what year the show is supposed to be taking place, but with all of the modern tech it definitely feels 2020 or late 2010s, which means that we, the audience, are viewing it with the perspective of how hosed our world is in the 2020s. When Anissa says that humans have proven how much they suck at taking care of the planet, she's not wrong and we definitely need a kick in the rear end to sort our poo poo out. The problem is is that the Viltrumites are the bad guys, so their offer is a poison pill, but we haven't been given evidence of why. The alternate universe shown in S2E1 has Mark and Nolan sharing power as god emperors over Earth and they say things like "we eliminated cancer, we brought an end to war and suffering, all you have to do is bend the knee" and then they slaughter the rebels. But what does life actually look like for the people who bent the knee? We didn't really get that perspective so we are told that it actually loving sucks to be slaves to the Viltrumites, but they still haven't shown that. I mean, on principal, we probably shouldn't believe them, it's the same deal with To Serve Man, or Childhood's End, or countless other sci-fi stories, but some are better than others at actually demonstrating WHY it's a bad idea
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Mar 30, 2024 21:17
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am interested in how they govern conquered planets. Would like most screen time in the alternate timelines. I think its safe to say they will cull any born with disabilities if its not fixable with their technology, but what else? Wipe 'lesser evolved' ones like the bugs. Probably taxing the planet on goods I guess. Have to see how much flex or negotiations they're willing to budge on their policies. The other planets we seen seem to just be regular advanced tech. planets, none with mutants or crazy rng powers in the genetics.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:48
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If the Viltrum people have suffered some major population decline, you can pretty easily guess who's doing all the actual work that frees them up to do space battles. It's likely a Spartans/helots deal.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:57
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Should people bow to fascist space overlords? Let's weigh the pros and cons, several bootlicking goons suggest.
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Mar 30, 2024 22:30
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Seldom Posts posted:Should people bow to fascist space overlords? Let's weigh the pros and cons, several bootlicking goons suggest.
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Mar 30, 2024 22:33
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Aces High posted:I mean, on principal, we probably shouldn't believe them, it's the same deal with Childhood's End I thought Childhood's end is basically, "Humans are going to evolve no matter what, sucks for you born before then"
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Mar 30, 2024 23:05
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Hughlander posted:I thought Childhood's end is basically, "Humans are going to evolve no matter what, sucks for you born before then" Yeah childhoods end is a weird addition to the list. I guess if the category is “aliens come down and tell us to do something’s we should already be doing.” It fits but the aliens there are like “don’t do animal abuse” so it’s a bit of a tough sell. It feels like the complaint is that with out context the viltrumites offer would be pretty good. If their offer is pay us taxes and let us offer free space collage to any one that signs up for our armed forces. Well how is that different than today? I am sure that forced eugenics and death camps are in the cards. But I am extrapolating that. A little foreshadowing would be appreciated is all I am saying. It could be that’s what angstrom will reveal next week, what happened to all the worlds that signed on.
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Mar 30, 2024 23:31
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Seldom Posts posted:Should people bow to fascist space overlords? Let's weigh the pros and cons, several bootlicking goons suggest. Again, the question of whether we should bow to Space Fascist Overlords gets less ridiculous as more countries on Earth are controlled by Earth Fascist Overlords, if just because the space fascists have probably moved past race science and phrenology as main policy drivers. Hell, the world in Invincible is already controlled by a weird cabal of illuminati bullshit that literally poisoned the water supply with mind control drugs and still can't stop space fascists from murdering a city whenever they want. Bending the knee to the Viltrumites seems better even if it just means that no Viltrumites will fight to the death on your planet. It would be like being able to sign a peace accord with hurricanes or something. Generally, your fictional fascists have to be making some kind of ask that's so beyond the pale so that your heroes can credibly reject their offer, because if not any number of enslaved or otherwise oppressed people on Earth might see a marked rise in their quality of life under Viltrumite rule. I think we saw this with Mark's "Uh.... well... at least I don't kill anyone" line. Like okay, but you do though? You murdered thousands of sequids and not zero martians last episode. You work for the US government which is basically a murder machine in real life, and in universe it's currently making its own zombies. Spanish Matlock fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 00:01
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A foreign power rolls up and says "Join us or die." But are they really the bad guys here?
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Mar 31, 2024 00:10
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Yeah, I've no idea what the gently caress is happening here. They're fascists.
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Mar 31, 2024 00:20
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Hughlander posted:I thought Childhood's end is basically, "Humans are going to evolve no matter what, sucks for you born before then" I haven't read it in 15 years, so I proooobably forgot. I was thinking there was conflict in the back half of the book after the reveal of what is going to happen to the future generations of Earthlings. I may also be conflating it with the miniseries from a decade ago which made some slight adjustments. Where's that dril tweet when we need it "we do not, under any circumstances have to hand it to the Viltrumites"
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Mar 31, 2024 00:24
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Open Source Idiom posted:Yeah, I've no idea what the gently caress is happening here. They're fascists. Yeah, but they say they're going to make the world better though! What reason would we have to not agree to accept their help? Footage of Chicago massacre plays in the background
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Mar 31, 2024 00:47
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Spanish Matlock posted:Again, the question of whether we should bow to Space Fascist Overlords gets less ridiculous as more countries on Earth are controlled by Earth Fascist Overlords, if just because the space fascists have probably moved past race science and phrenology as main policy drivers. "sure, they're eugenicists, but at least they aren't using phrenology to do it"
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Mar 31, 2024 00:51
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Open Source Idiom posted:Yeah, I've no idea what the gently caress is happening here. They're fascists. But they said they'd make the trains run on time!
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Mar 31, 2024 00:51
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah, but they say they're going to make the world better though! What reason would we have to not agree to accept their help? Footage of Chicago massacre plays in the background The Earth global superpower is desecrating the corpses of fallen soldiers to make zombie supermen. Edit: It feels like people are misunderstanding here, fascists aren't bad because they're fascists, they're bad because of what they do. The Viltrumites have done some hosed up poo poo, but not really by comparison to what we've seen other people do. Spanish Matlock fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 00:53
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Fascists are bad because they do fascism.
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Mar 31, 2024 01:00
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#notallfascists
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Mar 31, 2024 01:01
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Spanish Matlock posted:The Earth global superpower is desecrating the corpses of fallen soldiers to make zombie supermen. Yes, Earthlings are committing war crimes in the pursuit of 'The Greater Good' but not for fun or racial purity. I'm conflicted because it's for the purpose of stopping a singular space alien from flying across the planet so quickly that they ignite our atmosphere, killing the entire population, but it's also extremely immoral. Y'know what, I guess I'm just fine with evil if it's for a good reason. If you have to cut off a civilian's arm to decapitate a supervillain, I think I'm willing to accept that loss. Especially if you get them a prosthetic or get them to a hospital fast enough to reattach it.
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Mar 31, 2024 01:13
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the viltrumites suck and i hope space racer shoots them all with his big rear end gun
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Mar 31, 2024 01:24
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United States of Viltrum send a messenger to Earthistan with “join us now or we’ll do it the hard way”. Locals go “those fascists are after our way of life. Sure they might fix the roads and bring us medicine buuuut our women might start going to school, so let’s die in noble sacrifice of resistance”.
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Mar 31, 2024 01:36
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Unfortunately, the Viltrumites announced plans to recognize both Taiwan AND Palestine, leading to a unanimous vote of the UN security council against bending the knee
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Mar 31, 2024 01:50
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Are we all forgetting that we got to see Viltrumite occupation? It was the first episode of this season, and it sure as poo poo didn't seem very good for the humans who didn't consent to it.
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Mar 31, 2024 03:13
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The Bee posted:Are we all forgetting that we got to see Viltrumite occupation? It was the first episode of this season, and it sure as poo poo didn't seem very good for the humans who didn't consent to it. Also during the Nolan/Mark fight nolan said they’d basically extract everything of value and leave the planet a husk after several hundred years
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Mar 31, 2024 03:19
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Good Citizen posted:Also during the Nolan/Mark fight nolan said they’d basically extract everything of value and leave the planet a husk after several hundred years To be fair, our current ruling class is also doing that
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Mar 31, 2024 03:28
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Stairmaster posted:To be fair, our current ruling class is also doing that And our elected officials seem to keep getting older and older with no signs of stopping........ oh... oh god they're already here 
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Mar 31, 2024 03:32
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MonsterEnvy posted:
So, would all the people the Nazis put into camps get the same treatment under Viltrum? Only, how do they view body/gender dismorphia, ADHD, people on the spectrum? Hell, short-sighted people could well be considered "flawed". This: Spanish Matlock posted:What's interesting here is that he says that it's legal to kill the weak on Viltrum. What about subject planets? What does it mean to be a subject planet? Yeah, that's the big question. edit: okay, pretty much my whole post was already covered on the rest of the page. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 04:22
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At the end of the day, the Viltrumites aren't entitled to other planets regardless of how much benefit they can provide to them. Especially when they make it plain that they are very judgmental of the supposed inferiority of other species by virtue of not being supermen with century long lifespans. Oh, and the fact that you can be killed at any point for not being as able-bodied as someone else is also pretty hosed up, especially when that's a law made by temperamental people whose immediate reaction to disagreements is gleeful murder sprees.
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Mar 31, 2024 05:07
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Anyone arguing that we should listen just a second to the space fascists should consider that they, and everyone they love, are almost certainly among the people the space fascists will purge. Sure, they may bring longevity and prosperity - but you and 99% of everyone else will not be around to see it. (The same for anyone who's pinning their hopes in real life on magic immorality pills and other technology. Sure, it may happen - but you're not going to benefit). If anything, the prospect of space fascists fixing our problems should be the galvanizing force driving us to focus on fixing them ourselves
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Mar 31, 2024 06:04
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