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Pillowpants posted:You mean the meidas touch people right? MSW seems pretty decent to me. MuellerSheWrote's been doing the grift for longer than the idiots behind MeidasTouch.
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Mar 31, 2024 15:41
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Mar 31, 2024 17:46
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Main Paineframe posted:The point is that there's a big difference between "Trump is posting photos of the judge's daughter" and "Trump linked to an article that discuss the judge's daughter's role as the president of a political consulting firm at length and happens to contain a photo of her". Trump's bad enough already without needing to exaggerate stuff to keep those views flowing in coming over the slow, boring weekend. Meanwhile in the realm of actual lived experience, here is a case where someone with a fraction of the reach of Trump did something similar and ended up held in custody pending trial. https://twitter.com/ASFleischman/status/1774467178659471375?t=lYfDnhQczLaCRNHLjzyx3A&s=19 Caros fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 18:56
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Caros posted:Meanwhile in the realm of actual lived experience, here is a case where someone with a fraction of the reach of Trump did something similar and ended up held in custody pending trial. Well, no, because that's a completely different case isn't even remotely comparable to Trump's, and his summary doesn't look particularly accurate. The case is US v Busbin, and as far as I can tell (the complaint doesn't seem to be online anymore) it has literally nothing to do with posting photos. Busbin was an active-duty soldier whose family (him, his brother, and his wife) spent literally years carrying out campaigns of direct personal harassment and unsubtle violent threats against several judges, the county sheriff, several local and county police officers, the county judicial commissioner, all of his ex-wife's past and present boyfriends, his ex-wife's divorce lawyer, his brother's battalion commander, and the battalion commander's wife. As his harassment got more and more directly threatening, the Army called in the FBI, which interviewed the people around him (including his ex-wife and ex-girlfriends). The stories they heard generally described him as ruthless, mentally and physically abusive, and willing to do anything - no matter how violent - to get his way. They related quite a few stories of direct physical violence, including brutally murdering his own dog in front of his then-girlfriend and her two-year-old daughter and tossing its body into a firepit. The Army eventually hauled him in for a psychological assessment which concluded that he was "an imminent risk of harm/death to others", and then held him in psychiatric custody for several days before releasing him under a restraining order prohibiting him from interacting with the judges and another order confining him to the base. Both of those orders came from the Army chain of command, not via judges (active-duty soldiers, of course, do not necessarily have access to as many constitutional protections as civilians do). It seems that they may have had some doubts about his willingness to comply with said orders, given that he was apparently planning an armed "protest" at the courthouse when he was arrested a week or two later. For all of that, he is being charged with a single count of cyberstalking. If Trump was publicly posting news articles about judges being shot by defendants and openly declaring that the judges in his cases should end up like those dead judges, or if he was sending unsolicited private messages directly to Merchan and adding "Tell your daughter I said hi" on the end, then that might be even remotely comparable to what Busbin was doing. Hell, even Fleischman himself appears to agree that these distinctions matter, and that Trump's posting of photos doesn't necessarily fall into the same category. 
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Mar 31, 2024 20:02
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, no, because that's a completely different case isn't even remotely comparable to Trump's, and his summary doesn't look particularly accurate. The case is US v Busbin, and as far as I can tell (the complaint doesn't seem to be online anymore) it has literally nothing to do with posting photos. And Trump is a former president who has spent years carrying out campaigns of direct personal harassment and unsubtle (though not explicitly violent) threats against every person involved in his legal cases and political opponents. These threats have resulted in large numbers of those individuals (particularly judges and prosecutors) requiring round the clock security due to the high volume of death threats they receive. These threats and incitments can and have led to violence most notably the whole 'attempted coup' thing you might be familiar with. Given the distinction so far, trump seems much more dangerous. quote:As his harassment got more and more directly threatening, the Army called in the FBI, which interviewed the people around him (including his ex-wife and ex-girlfriends). The stories they heard generally described him as ruthless, mentally and physically abusive, and willing to do anything - no matter how violent - to get his way. They related quite a few stories of direct physical violence, including brutally murdering his own dog in front of his then-girlfriend and her two-year-old daughter and tossing its body into a firepit. Trump is credibly accused of violently abusing and then raping his ex-wife, and he is civilly liable for having raped a relative stranger. And again, the whole 'attempted coup of the US government' thing. quote:The Army eventually hauled him in for a psychological assessment which concluded that he was "an imminent risk of harm/death to others", and then held him in psychiatric custody for several days before releasing him under a restraining order prohibiting him from interacting with the judges and another order confining him to the base. Both of those orders came from the Army chain of command, not via judges (active-duty soldiers, of course, do not necessarily have access to as many constitutional protections as civilians do). It seems that they may have had some doubts about his willingness to comply with said orders, given that he was apparently planning an armed "protest" at the courthouse when he was arrested a week or two later. And Trump is a pathological narcissist who attempted to end democratic rule by force. He has been subject to gag orders (that he has violated) in all of his civil and criminal cases because of the risk his speech posed everytime he calls for the mob to DO SOMETHING with regards to his next perceived slight. It is just tedious to watch you Kramer into the thread and go 'oh no this presidential candidate posting news articles featuring the photo of the daughter of the judge who is constantly receiving death threats is cool and normal in our judicial system' and act as though any normal defendant wouldn't have had their bail revoked for repeatedly targeting the family members of the court on their million person social media empire of violent lunatics. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Caros fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 20:26
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Caros posted:And Trump is a former president who has spent years carrying out campaigns of direct personal harassment and unsubtle (though not explicitly violent) threats against every person involved in his legal cases and political opponents. These threats have resulted in large numbers of those individuals (particularly judges and prosecutors) requiring round the clock security due to the high volume of death threats they receive. What's really tedious is when I cite specific laws and cases and Supreme Court rulings that lay out exactly what is or isn't permissible for the judge to do here under US law, and get met by a wall of "nuh-uh" from people who insist that actually all these little legal distinctions don't matter and that the judge is just biased in favor of the guy who keeps attacking his daughter. No one has explicitly said that Merchan is biased in favor of Trump, but that's the clear implication when people start claiming that Trump is being treated way nicer than any other defendant would be. All those little distinctions you're just handwaving away as irrelevant here? They matter! Under US law, they're key distinctions that are absolutely critical to consider when weighing how much the court is allowed to limit Trump's constitutionally-guaranteed rights to free speech outside the courtroom. You concede that any threats Trump might be personally making are not violent. As far as US law is concerned, that's basically the end of it. There is very little room in current First Amendment jurisprudence for muzzling non-violent threats. If somebody else decides to commit violence based on Trump's non-violent posts, First Amendment law says that's entirely the fault of the person who committed violence and has nothing to do with Trump. In the absence of any indication that Trump himself is going to personally engage in or organize violence against Merchan or his daughter, there's no legal grounds for considering him to be threatening anyone. Like it or not, First Amendment case law basically shuts out the whole idea of stochastic terrorism - tweeting "this person is corrupt and persecuting me" isn't legally considered to be a threat, and that goes doubly for tweeting a link to a news article saying that! Yes, Trump is under gag orders in many cases. He's even under a gag order in the particular case we're talking about. But he's not violating that gag order, because neither Merchan nor his daughter is covered by that gag order! Maybe he'll expand the gag order, maybe not, but either way, Trump isn't going to be punished for tweets that aren't clear threats of violence and didn't violate the gag order. Merchan's daughter's photo is all over conservative media, and has been for months. The New York Post article is far from the only one; tons of right-wing sites are churning out articles claiming that the Merchans are corruptly benefiting from this case, and pretty much all of them have photos of the Merchans. Which is unsurprising, because even real, serious news outlets often include a picture of the accused when they're directly accusing someone of corruption.
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Mar 31, 2024 21:06
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America is an amazing place and I'm glad to be here for these moments God Bless The USA Bible  godblesstheusabible.com posted:##### Is this Bible officially endorsed by President Trump? mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 21:38
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, no, because that's a completely different case isn't even remotely comparable to Trump's, and his summary doesn't look particularly accurate. The case is US v Busbin, and as far as I can tell (the complaint doesn't seem to be online anymore) it has literally nothing to do with posting photos. I personally would love it if Trump would have faced the, IMO, appropriate consequences for his actions (spend all his time in jail pending trial). At the same time, I do find it useful/important to counter hyperbolic, maybe even false, statements of supposed fact.
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Mar 31, 2024 21:41
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quote:##### What if my Bible has sticky pages? Having the Bibles arrive pre-jacked-off-onto is a nice touch
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Mar 31, 2024 21:48
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I honestly thought Lee Greenwood was dead.
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Mar 31, 2024 22:26
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I used to trick or treat at this house in Kodak, TN. He gave it small packs of Sweet-Tarts.
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Mar 31, 2024 22:35
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DTurtle posted:I just want to say thank you for doing the research and posting this information. Seconded- thanks Main Painframe. You aren't Kramering it all, you're actually considering the legal realities in a dispassionate and step-by-step way, instead of working backwards from your cynicism and frustration with the results, or the speed of progress. Naturally the frustration is totally justified when the defendant is a singularly unlikable and dangerous motherfucker like Trump, but that doesn't necessarily mean every successful delay or legal tactic he uses is evidence that the system is completely bought and paid for. Nor does it mean that every instance of his being unlikable or dangerous violates an actual law the courts can do something about. The frustration with the legal system is also totally justified, as it seems that any discretion the courts have tends towards affording more leniency towards defendants with a lot of means, status, or public visibility. A lot of that is, no doubt, prejudicial and classist. However it also makes sense that the more good lawyers and money available to both sides, the slower everything will necessarily go as the prosecution has to anticipate how the defense will try to nit pick them, legally, procedurally, and in any other way available. You don't have to "let them win now so you can beat them later" but you do have to be painstakingly by the book if you hope to beat them at all, and that means keeping your eyes on the prize, not on Trump's flim-flam. Trump's public behaviour is an obvious attempt to goad prosecution and public pressure into rushing things or turning things into a circus or a sensationalized moment outside of the courts - that is his objective and his MO: make a mess, walk away while grown-ups try to clean it up. While gradually bleeding him dry lacks the satisfyingly decisive aspect of a perp-walk, it also deprives him of his strengths and resists making him a martyr. He just has to live with sounding more and more paranoid and pathetic and poor as he dies by a thousand cuts.
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Mar 31, 2024 22:43
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Caros posted:Meanwhile in the realm of actual lived experience, here is a case where someone with a fraction of the reach of Trump did something similar and ended up held in custody pending trial. Posts like this just makes Fleischman come off as uncredible when talking about Trump because as mentioned, the dude went wayyy WAY further than just "was a meanie on social media" so it wasn't his lack of reach that kept him from being held in custody pending trial. Dude was seriously posting more than newspaper articles with public photos of the judge's child.
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Apr 1, 2024 00:31
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Xand_Man posted:Having the Bibles arrive pre-jacked-off-onto is a nice touch They're bookmarks to the good stuff.
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Apr 1, 2024 00:40
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mawarannahr posted:America is an amazing place and I'm glad to be here for these moments Misread the URL for your quote source as Godless: The USA Bible
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Apr 1, 2024 00:47
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Velocity Raptor posted:Misread the URL for your quote source as Godless: The USA Bible Misread?
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Apr 1, 2024 00:50
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Kchama posted:Posts like this just makes Fleischman come off as uncredible when talking about Trump because as mentioned, the dude went wayyy WAY further than just "was a meanie on social media" so it wasn't his lack of reach that kept him from being held in custody pending trial. Dude was seriously posting more than newspaper articles with public photos of the judge's child. The defendant normally doesn't have a media apparatus dedicated to generating press coverage of the judges children either. This is all somewhat circular.
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Apr 1, 2024 00:52
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Gotta get those churches to funnel money to Trump SOMEHOW ya know.
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Apr 1, 2024 00:56
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If I find one of those in a hotel, I am checking out immediately.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:05
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mawarannahr posted:##### What if my Bible has sticky pages? This is why they didn't let you read Song of Solomon until you were married.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:29
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The Bible posted:This is why they didn't let you read Song of Solomon until you were married.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The defendant normally doesn't have a media apparatus dedicated to generating press coverage of the judges children either. This is all somewhat circular. Certainly, but Trump isn't directly sending death threats or non-public photographs. I don't think even the NY Post's pictures weren't taken at a public event. That's kind of a massive difference and to even attempt to compare them is very silly.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:46
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mawarannahr posted:How are you holding up? ? I mean, okay I guess. Things have gotten significantly better for me recently, if you're seriously asking and I'm not missing something here.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:47
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The Bible posted:? glad to hear it though keep on rockin
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Apr 1, 2024 01:48
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mawarannahr posted:The username! Ah, God I'm dumb.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:48
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Kchama posted:Certainly, but Trump isn't directly sending death threats or non-public photographs. I don't think even the NY Post's pictures weren't taken at a public event. That's kind of a massive difference and to even attempt to compare them is very silly. One of the pics looks to be a selfie, probably from her IG
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Apr 1, 2024 01:52
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Kchama posted:Certainly, but Trump isn't directly sending death threats or non-public photographs. I don't think even the NY Post's pictures weren't taken at a public event. That's kind of a massive difference and to even attempt to compare them is very silly. He didn't give direct death threats against Congress, his Vice President or the cops defending it, but we all watched live how THAT went. There is no difference and a normal human being would have been locked up by now.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:52
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They're not here to hurt me. Take away the mags. They're not here to hurt me.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:54
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The Bible posted:Ah, God I'm dumb. incredible post/username combo
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Apr 1, 2024 01:54
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Subjunctive posted:If I find one of those in a hotel, I am checking out immediately. At least leave a double-decker first. You’re already there.
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Apr 1, 2024 02:05
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You guys should take some comfort in knowing that Trump is miserable.
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Apr 1, 2024 02:08
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If I really wanted a bible, like really wanted one, couldn't I just walk into the first church I see and ask and get one for free? I always assumed churches would be more than happy to give me one if I truly wanted/needed one.
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Apr 1, 2024 03:46
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Boris Galerkin posted:If I really wanted a bible, like really wanted one, couldn't I just walk into the first church I see and ask and get one for free? I always assumed churches would be more than happy to give me one if I truly wanted/needed one. There are a bunch of free ones in every hotel room it seems.
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Apr 1, 2024 03:55
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Boris Galerkin posted:If I really wanted a bible, like really wanted one, couldn't I just walk into the first church I see and ask and get one for free? I always assumed churches would be more than happy to give me one if I truly wanted/needed one. Probably; depends on the church. Some won't even let you through the doors if you're not a member; see: Baptists (not as a rule, they'll probably give you a Bible most of the time) Luxury bibles are a real thing, though. Gold inlay, gold/silver embossing, annotations, notes, bulletproof covers, etc. The Bible fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 03:59
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Donald Trump is OK, if you like Donald Trump, but not me.
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Apr 1, 2024 04:10
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Boris Galerkin posted:If I really wanted a bible, like really wanted one, couldn't I just walk into the first church I see and ask and get one for free? I always assumed churches would be more than happy to give me one if I truly wanted/needed one. Churches are like libraries when it comes to the bible, in that you can read it there or check it out, but they'd prefer to keep an account of it. Is there a specific version of the bible being scammed to these Trump marks, or is it just AI translated nonsense like I would expect it to be?
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Apr 1, 2024 04:10
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Edward Mass posted:Churches are like libraries when it comes to the bible, in that you can read it there or check it out, but they'd prefer to keep an account of it. American Standard Bible, King James Version, and World Bible are the most commonly used public domain translations, so definitely one of those. It'll be done as cheaply as possible, no doubt.
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Apr 1, 2024 04:14
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I'm pretty sure I remember reading the $60 tromp bible is KJV
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Apr 1, 2024 04:16
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Isn't the KJV the worst translated and most inaccurate Bible? It's probably that
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Apr 1, 2024 04:20
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Boris Galerkin posted:I'm pretty sure I remember reading the $60 tromp bible is KJV The God Bless the USA Bible is literally a British translation when American versions are out there. Perfect, no notes.
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Apr 1, 2024 04:21
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