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jeeves posted:What still amazes me in comparison is how much effort and how good the TNG finale is, even when they were literally refocusing all of production and attention for Generations that was likely already deep in production by the finale. As I understand it, things were actually more the other way 'round - so much energy was spent (at least in the writers' room) making "All Good Things..." into the fantastic finale that it is that they didn't have what it would have taken to make Generations all it might have been, especially given the massively rushed production schedule and slashed budget that the movie had to work with. Zaroff posted:I’d have been happier if it was not packaged as an episode of Enterprise, and instead was a one-off 90-minute farewell to Berman Trek. Babylon 5 pulled something like this off well in its 4th season finale, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars".
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Apr 1, 2024 18:37
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They seem to pretty much agree that the idea for "how to make a TNG crossover with ENT" was an excellent one, but the place as a series or era ender was a really stupid move. I like the Manny Coto's idea that it should be relabeled as "special episode". I mean, Godfather part 3 was relabeled after what, 30 years, to be the "one after last proper one" because Coppola made a clunker because he needed the money.
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Apr 1, 2024 18:38
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Boxturret posted:All I know is my 6th grade teacher really liked that ending speech and it was on a mixtape he'd play every now and then. That was probably the speech from Terra Prime. The speech from TATV doesn't happen: Troi says "I had to memorise this speech in school" and Riker says "yeah yeah and I'm ready to go talk to Picard now" and he goes "Computer, end program" just before Archer starts.
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Apr 1, 2024 18:41
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Pinterest Mom posted:That was probably the speech from Terra Prime. The speech from TATV doesn't happen: Troi says "I had to memorise this speech in school" and Riker says "yeah yeah and I'm ready to go talk to Picard now" and he goes "Computer, end program" just before Archer starts. No I mean the final thing where they do the opening speech but it switches between all the captains of the enterprise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcphxIcSyjs&t=108s
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Apr 1, 2024 18:45
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Powered Descent posted:Here you go, reactions from Braga, Coto, Frakes, and several members of the main cast. I love how everyone was like "yeah, that episode was loving trash", and then Dominic Keating's like "I liked it!  "
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Apr 1, 2024 18:45
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Boxturret posted:No I mean the final thing where they do the opening speech but it switches between all the captains of the enterprise. Huh. Completely impossible to imagine the mind of someone who's super excited to hear Archer say "to boldly go" as a few notes of Archer's Theme play.
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Apr 1, 2024 18:47
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Pinterest Mom posted:Huh. Completely impossible to imagine the mind of someone who's super excited to hear Archer say "to boldly go" as a few notes of Archer's Theme play. Okay watching the clip again they also had the Riker and Troi conversation too. It was quite odd really. Liked the teacher though, he was funny.
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Apr 1, 2024 19:56
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:The finale should have been the trial of Johnathan Archer with witnesses brought in from across the timeline to argue the pros and cons of interfering in the timeline. Half guest star extravaganza, half clip show. Ending with Trip and Archer talking about the placement of the second button on their uniforms?
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Apr 1, 2024 20:49
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I also seem to remember that at the time, there were rumors that the finale was going to explicitly make the entire ENT series just a holodeck simulation. That got people upset before it even aired, and when it actually did air... well it was still pretty bad, even though I think you have to stretch pretty far to say it actually makes the whole show "just a dream". At worst it just makes it so that Riker was watching the whole show on the holodeck, which is whatever. Holorecording, TV show, what's the difference really.
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Apr 1, 2024 21:08
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Powered Descent posted:Here you go, reactions from Braga, Coto, Frakes, and several members of the main cast. Memory Alpha posted:At a 2009 Star Trek convention, Jonathan Frakes simply said this episode "stinks." Getting paid to be at a convention to give his honest opinion about how he was paid to be on the finale of a show his character wasn't even on. I say this not even sarcastically: what a great career this man has lucked into. Edit - also he never got to direct any Enterprise episodes, which is further laff jeeves fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 21:16
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jeeves posted:Edit - also he never got to direct any Enterprise episodes, which is further laff
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Apr 1, 2024 23:10
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Babylon 5 pulled something like this off well in its 4th season finale, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". This is literally the episode I was thinking of while watching TATV. As always, post-TNG Trek just ripping off Babylon 5 without understanding what made it work. My buddy is doing a rewatch right now and pointed out that aside from season 1, it is a nearly perfectly paced show despite it being 20+ episodes a season. Most modern TV could learn a thing or two from the way it had planned its arcs well ahead of time and provided backdoors for the actors to dip out if and as necessary. I'm also really bitter that TATV did Shran dirty. Combs finally gets to play a hero and the only thing they can think to have him do at the end of a series that spent 4 seasons developing a bond of trust and friendship between two men loyal to their peoples was to turn him into a nearly incompetent thief who doesn't even know where the treasure is or how fast his enemies can travel through space. A complete disservice to the character and actor and themes of the show, not to mention the themes of the Federation.
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Apr 2, 2024 00:34
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I thought the implication was that Riker had been larping it up through the entire series of Enterprise, because his character wasn't just some random extra hanging around the NX-01. He was chef, a figure that had been consistently and repeatedly referenced throughout the entire run of the show, who had more character and personality than some members of the bridge crew just through the constant allusions. It was so conspicuous to me how much they talked about the chef, it feels like something similar might have been planned from the start. Taear posted:But it just turned into TNG again. The producers of Trek really really wanted to remake TOS for a while. They gave up on DS9 early on to let the writers just have fun with it while they went over to set up Voyager to have none of the space politics baggage so the writers would have a free hand to do whatever they wanted (and then it turned out they didn't have a lot of great ideas for what they wanted to do). Enterprise likewise seemed to be another attempt to have Star Trek with less franchise baggage, although maybe they had more ideas that went horribly awry instead, and eventually all that was trashed in favor of stories that played more off of their position in the franchise rather than trying to be all alone in a vaccuum. And then way back with TNG, the original intent with that was to get away from TOS baggage and have a free hand to tell weird philosophical stories, and it ended up really finding its legs after accepting the returning Romulans and Klingons and the broader aspects of the Trek franchise that it managed to shine. They had to relearn the same lesson over and over again, and I guess now that they've learned it and the newer shows start out with nostalgia bait, they kinda got to learn the opposite lesson now.
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Apr 2, 2024 00:41
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At least it gave us one of the best Lower Decks lines.
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Apr 2, 2024 00:42
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SlothfulCobra posted:I thought the implication was that Riker had been larping it up through the entire series of Enterprise, because his character wasn't just some random extra hanging around the NX-01. He was chef, a figure that had been consistently and repeatedly referenced throughout the entire run of the show, who had more character and personality than some members of the bridge crew just through the constant allusions.
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Apr 2, 2024 01:07
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Riker just spent the entire four years of simulation in the galley in character, and that's why he put on 20 pounds.
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Apr 2, 2024 03:37
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Powered Descent posted:Here you go, reactions from Braga, Coto, Frakes, and several members of the main cast. I genuinely love how two whole months before it even aired for the first time, Blalock was not mincing words whatsoever about how lovely it was. That kinda rules.
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Apr 2, 2024 03:44
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Atlas Hugged posted:This is literally the episode I was thinking of while watching TATV. As always, post-TNG Trek just ripping off Babylon 5 without understanding what made it work. My buddy is doing a rewatch right now and pointed out that aside from season 1, it is a nearly perfectly paced show despite it being 20+ episodes a season. Most modern TV could learn a thing or two from the way it had planned its arcs well ahead of time and provided backdoors for the actors to dip out if and as necessary. Every show should have a show bible. As much as DS9 gets compared to B5 what happened with DS9 was basically random - it's sad how many really big things were just "oh someone should die in this episode"
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Apr 2, 2024 13:15
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Taear posted:Every show should have a show bible. Or kind of cool, when you think about how many really interesting and affecting moments/story arcs were the result of the writers shrugging and saying "gently caress it".
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Apr 2, 2024 13:59
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No Dignity posted:Starfleet is a very NATO-vibes organisation, I can see it Except Starfleet doesn't have actual booze whereas NATO
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Apr 2, 2024 14:07
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Starfleet had actual booze in TOS, when Scotty heroically drank some alien invaders into submission, but the replicator ruined everything.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:17
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Fighting Trousers posted:Or kind of cool, when you think about how many really interesting and affecting moments/story arcs were the result of the writers shrugging and saying "gently caress it". I'd be okay if that was the reason but it's more "Okay our next story has a bit where someone dies. Is there a character we can kill that people will know". Instead of "and what will this result in later".
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Apr 2, 2024 14:58
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I'm still genuinely surprised that none of the TNG main characters died heroically in S3 of Picard, but I guess Matalas was such a TNG fanboy - or so scared of being the target of the kind of terminally online chuds he palled around with - he didn't want to. (So he killed off Ro and Shelby and Legolas instead, and even then tried to weasel out of it all three cases.)
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Apr 2, 2024 20:27
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Small Strange Bird posted:I'm still genuinely surprised that none of the TNG main characters died heroically in S3 of Picard, but I guess Matalas was such a TNG fanboy - or so scared of being the target of the kind of terminally online chuds he palled around with - he didn't want to. (So he killed off Ro and Shelby and Legolas instead, and even then tried to weasel out of it all three cases.)
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Apr 2, 2024 20:45
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Small Strange Bird posted:I'm still genuinely surprised that none of the TNG main characters died heroically in S3 of Picard, but I guess Matalas was such a TNG fanboy - or so scared of being the target of the kind of terminally online chuds he palled around with - he didn't want to. (So he killed off Ro and Shelby and Legolas instead, and even then tried to weasel out of it all three cases.) Wait. They killed off Ro Laren in S3 of Picard? I thought I knew all the myriad reasons to call that show garbage, but I am continuously surprised.
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Apr 2, 2024 23:30
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AlternateNu posted:Wait. They killed off Ro Laren in S3 of Picard? Bomb on her shuttle, yup, it was dumb AF
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Apr 2, 2024 23:46
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AlternateNu posted:Wait. They killed off Ro Laren in S3 of Picard? Basically, every opportunity they had to trip over their own dicks, they took, and then they invented all new ones on top of that.
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Apr 2, 2024 23:53
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Just watched "The Hunted", series 3 of TNG. Man that sure is a show that constantly fucks up the premise that a lot of other episodes are built on. The super soldier guy BREAKS OUT of a transporter beam for one. And when he's transporting he's constantly moving. How the gently caress can he do that?
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Apr 3, 2024 00:12
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He was genetically engineered with Mary Sue powers.
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Apr 3, 2024 00:18
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Timby posted:Basically, every opportunity they had to trip over their own dicks, they took, and then they invented all new ones on top of that. The same could be said of Disco Season 1. Which explains why Klingons are twice as bad as the rest of the show.
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Apr 3, 2024 00:29
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I watched The Naked Now and Code of Honor last night. I think I had seen Code of Honor as a kid as the spiked gauntlets were very familiar to me, but I had definitely seen The Naked Now. I distinctly remembered the engineer stacking the control chips and Wesley saying, "So I'm drunk!" I think a lot of the innuendo went over my head though. I didn't hate Naked Now, but I hope this marks the end of revisiting TOS episodes. It was kind of cute when seen through that lens and having a general overview of TNG in my head, but I want to see new adventures and not just rehashed plots going forward. And we got that with the dumbest Prime Directive episode of them all in Code of Honor. The original premise of them being lizard people may have worked, but good lord is this episode a stinker. It's more boring than anything else, but Christ whose loving idea was it to change them from truly alien aliens to just African-inspired humanoids?
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Apr 3, 2024 01:08
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Taear posted:Just watched "The Hunted", series 3 of TNG. He's the one guy in the whole drat galaxy who understands what the technological levels presented in the show are actually capable of if you don't restrict yourself to something a late 20th century audience would understand and find entertaining.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:10
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He was practically a superhero in the wrong show. Like if Batman was running around the ship.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:30
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Kesper North posted:Bomb on her shuttle, yup, it was dumb AF But actually it was a fakeout. she was on the shuttle behind the one that blew up.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:38
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"Computer, next time we get the transporter lock just beam him into space." "But sir, that would kill him!" "Oh, so we'll have, like, only an hour to bring him back to life? Or is this one of those random times when we don't have power over life and death not unlike gods?"
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Apr 3, 2024 01:43
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I liked how sometimes some random red shirt would get stabbed or something, and they'd just be like, yep they're dead. Like my dudes we now how to keep people alive with that kinda of injury now as lon g as the brains not damaged. At least beam them to sickbay so a doctor can try to help.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:50
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's more boring than anything else, but Christ whose loving idea was it to change them from truly alien aliens to just African-inspired humanoids? IIRC, the episode director, who was so racist the cast was pissed.
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Apr 3, 2024 02:56
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One of the earliest lines of dialog in the episode is Picard or Riker explaining how they're humanoid and look very nearly human, but they are definitely not humans despite the similarities. It is way too on the nose.
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Apr 3, 2024 03:01
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Which is just so telling considering how many Star Trek aliens over the years have been basically human, not even bothering with weird ears or foreheads.
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Apr 3, 2024 03:09
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There's like 50, especially if you count the ones that are likely just using tattoos or make-up to look non-human.
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Apr 3, 2024 03:37
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