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Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Ornery and Hornery posted:

I want to take a week vacation to do nothing but play this game

I kind of knew this would be the case and abandoned the game after a few hours when it released until the long easter weekend. In a truly unhealthy burst of playing video games it only took 39 hours to beat... act 1. Granted a lot of that was reading about how not to screw myself out of storylines. Stay tuned for my 2025 review of act 2.

I'm kind of glad I was wrong with the initial impressions from their early preview. Most of the stuff I hated from DoS2 is definitely still on display, but they hit so many things out of the park it's hard to care much.

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SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003

Saraiguma posted:

If demons have agency and personhood (they do) then them being "always evil" is simply portraying a race of people as okay to murder indiscriminately, alignment is moronic but there are multiple extant ways to forcibly change the alignment of a creature in dungeons and dragons

The ones who don't play by the rules of being a huge piece of poo poo don't get to evolve past being a dretch or a mane or whatever it is that's the lowest form of demon, sort of like how you won't find any good billionaires. Maybe there are some good dretches and manes, idk cause you're not likely to ever meet them cause they're just gonna sit in a slime pit at the bottom of another dimension. Escalating in power in demon society requires choices and behaviors that mark you as evil. The more powerful you've been able to become, the more evil you are. It's basically just capitalism.

Demons/devils are one of the few D&D monsters I'm fine painting with the Literally Always Dangerously Evil, Untrustworthy, and Anti-Human brush, because they aren't flesh and blood creatures with real, human motivations. They are coalesced metaphor about our darkest impulses. If they were a different metaphor, they wouldn't be demons. A demon who stops being evil stops being a demon. A billionaire who stops being evil stops being a billionaire.

Martian
May 29, 2005

Grimey Drawer
I gave my entire party Alert as their feat at lvl 4, this seems like the correct choice so far

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

alert is easily the most broken feat

SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003

Martian posted:

I gave my entire party Alert as their feat at lvl 4, this seems like the correct choice so far

Alert, sentinel, and polearm master are all heavy duty choices, although sentinel weirdly seems like it actually gets worse the more party members have it.

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3

Yams Fan

SlimGoodbody posted:

Alert, sentinel, and polearm master are all heavy duty choices, although sentinel weirdly seems like it actually gets worse the more party members have it.

that's why you go 50/50 on Sentinel and Polearm mastery, you can cover each other and you can have only one reaction anyway

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.

SlimGoodbody posted:

The ones who don't play by the rules of being a huge piece of poo poo don't get to evolve past being a dretch or a mane or whatever it is that's the lowest form of demon, sort of like how you won't find any good billionaires. Maybe there are some good dretches and manes, idk cause you're not likely to ever meet them cause they're just gonna sit in a slime pit at the bottom of another dimension. Escalating in power in demon society requires choices and behaviors that mark you as evil. The more powerful you've been able to become, the more evil you are. It's basically just capitalism.

Demons/devils are one of the few D&D monsters I'm fine painting with the Literally Always Dangerously Evil, Untrustworthy, and Anti-Human brush, because they aren't flesh and blood creatures with real, human motivations. They are coalesced metaphor about our darkest impulses. If they were a different metaphor, they wouldn't be demons. A demon who stops being evil stops being a demon. A billionaire who stops being evil stops being a billionaire.

Just wanna say, I love the billionaire analogy.

And, to stretch that euphemism further... I really think we should round up all the Demons and have Very Bad Things happen to them for the good of the Material Plane.

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.
I'm sure this has come up in the thread before, but what's up with dice rolls?

The "humans can't understand variance LOL" old argument starts failing when I see multiple 1/10000 and 1/20000 events (no karmic dice on). Did Larian actually rig rolls in higher difficulties to make monsters harder? The number of times 96%+ advantage misses is mind-boggling, I can't remember for the life of me poo poo like that when I used to play pen and paper DnD. You'd see players with bad luck, but not that, all the time.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Eh, humans are extraordinarily bad at judging the fairness of random rolls. Which is why things like Karmic Dice even exist: it's supposed to feel more "right" to the average person's intuitions. Unless you've actually been keeping track of every single roll you make (not just the ones that draw your attention) I would chalk it up to randomness. And even if you are getting unlucky... sometimes people get unlucky. That's what randomness means.

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Kawabata posted:

I'm sure this has come up in the thread before, but what's up with dice rolls?

The "humans can't understand variance LOL" old argument starts failing when I see multiple 1/10000 and 1/20000 events (no karmic dice on). Did Larian actually rig rolls in higher difficulties to make monsters harder? The number of times 96%+ advantage misses is mind-boggling, I can't remember for the life of me poo poo like that when I used to play pen and paper DnD. You'd see players with bad luck, but not that, all the time.

there are millions of players making thousands of rolls per playthrough. some will see very unlikely events, and some will even see an unlikely number of unlikely events. luck is basically real if you don't keep going forever.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Kawabata posted:

I'm sure this has come up in the thread before, but what's up with dice rolls?

The "humans can't understand variance LOL" old argument starts failing when I see multiple 1/10000 and 1/20000 events (no karmic dice on). Did Larian actually rig rolls in higher difficulties to make monsters harder? The number of times 96%+ advantage misses is mind-boggling, I can't remember for the life of me poo poo like that when I used to play pen and paper DnD. You'd see players with bad luck, but not that, all the time.

You are bad at understanding randomness.

Dragonwagon
Mar 28, 2010


And that, as much as anything else, led to my drinking problem.
Also I think the percentages already have advantage factored in to them. You don't have two 96% chances, your two rolls together give you the 96% chance of success.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Kawabata posted:

I'm sure this has come up in the thread before, but what's up with dice rolls?

The "humans can't understand variance LOL" old argument starts failing when I see multiple 1/10000 and 1/20000 events (no karmic dice on). Did Larian actually rig rolls in higher difficulties to make monsters harder? The number of times 96%+ advantage misses is mind-boggling, I can't remember for the life of me poo poo like that when I used to play pen and paper DnD. You'd see players with bad luck, but not that, all the time.

What 1/20000 events have you witnessed?

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Dragonwagon posted:

Also I think the percentages already have advantage factored in to them. You don't have two 96% chances, your two rolls together give you the 96% chance of success.

Yeah, when you have advantage it shows you the total chance across both rolls. Which should be obvious since a single d20 can only naturally have odds that are a multiple of 5.

So you have a 4% chance of missing a 96% hit rate.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

getting three critical misses in a row is ILLEGAL

wizard2
Apr 4, 2022

Jay Rust posted:

getting three critical misses in a row is ILLEGAL

when ypu think about it, it's so improbable that it is basically impossible

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

Dragonwagon posted:

Also I think the percentages already have advantage factored in to them. You don't have two 96% chances, your two rolls together give you the 96% chance of success.

If that's how the game considers advantage rolls then my percentages are way less weird. A bit unlucky overall but not as bad as I thought.

Still, the way RNG works feel bad and it shows how inadequate DnD rules are for a videogame. Having 60% to hit and then being able to either deal 4 or 40 damage is loving stupid and it's an "all or nothing" system that leads to huge variance. Magic missiles have been hilariously broken since the 90s for this very reason. It's not Larian's fault obviously.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Clarste posted:

Eh, the history of fantasy writing has also been a push-and-pull between people who want evil monstrous races that it's fun to fight, and people who point out that even the idea of a race that is always by-nature evil is pretty racist. It seems like D&D is trying to square this circle by making them much more explicitly demonic, rather than just dog people who happen to be evil, but it's also kind of arbitrary that they took them in such a different direction than goblins or kobolds.

Kobolds aren't necessarily evil! One sold me treatos! :mad:

wizard2
Apr 4, 2022
well, not EVERY D&D ruleset was inadequate for a video game... :911:

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

Larian does still lean into "x race is evil" by offering unique dialogue for like duergar PCs that are all like "i beat my slaves"

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Jay Rust posted:

Larian does still lean into "x race is evil" by offering unique dialogue for like duergar PCs that are all like "i beat my slaves"

Drow can be redeemed but gods help you if you're an ugly evil race.

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.

Jay Rust posted:

getting three critical misses in a row is ILLEGAL

Black Noise
Jan 23, 2008

WHAT UP

wizard2 posted:

when ypu think about it, it's so improbable that it is basically impossible

I’ve gotten a quadruple 1 somewhere in Pathfinder. Definitely one of those if you become immortal you will eventually become trapped forever situations.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
Might be a hot take, but Evil Durge playthrough kinda boring. Dialog branches I expect to follow through with an intimidation check instead end in a fight to the death. Meaning it's stupidly easy to have no companions (because they're all dead) and end up in constant battles (kill the good guys, then piss off the bad guys in their victory speech). I think an Evil non-Durge by-way-of self-interest or Resist Durge would be interesting.

Jay Rust posted:

getting three critical misses in a row is ILLEGAL

<> Shadowheart (before the ability to respec her into something useful) approves

Shard
Jul 30, 2005

bird with big dick posted:

What 1/20000 events have you witnessed?

what are the chances of rolling two ones back to back because I did that

Bum the Sad
Aug 25, 2002
Hell Gem

Shard posted:

what are the chances of rolling two ones back to back because I did that

I think you just multiply the chances 5% times 5% so uh 1:400

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus

Shard posted:

what are the chances of rolling two ones back to back because I did that

You are like a little baby. Watch this:



All back to back in the same fight. Four 1s in a row, followed by a 6 with advantage just to rub it in.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Snake Maze posted:

You are like a little baby. Watch this:



All back to back in the same fight. Four 1s in a row, followed by a 6 with advantage just to rub it in.

A 1/160,0000 chance, now we're approaching original Phantasy Star Online Psycho Wand rarity.

Mzbundifund
Nov 5, 2011

I'm afraid so.

mycot posted:

Anyway I'm reminded of the exchange you can have with the mercenary trying to steal the githyanki egg and Lae'zel. The mercenary says the Society of Brilliance wanted the egg to prove an experiment that a Gith doesn't have to be inherently violent if raised out of that environment. Both the mercenary and Lae'zel are dismissive of the idea, but I'm pretty sure BG3 at least believes that is correct. Even Raph is kinda sorta implied to be a product of his environment.

I loved this one because Lae’zel herself, which the player has been traveling with for the whole first act of the game now, is not really demonstrably more or less violent than anyone else in this stupid fantasy world. All that lady is proving is that the Society of Brilliance has some real bracing racial stereotypes.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Mzbundifund posted:

I loved this one because Lae’zel herself, which the player has been traveling with for the whole first act of the game now, is not really demonstrably more or less violent than anyone else in this stupid fantasy world. All that lady is proving is that the Society of Brilliance has some real bracing racial stereotypes.

The Forgotten Realms is Murder World, Bhaal is the secret true overgod

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Mzbundifund posted:

I loved this one because Lae’zel herself, which the player has been traveling with for the whole first act of the game now, is not really demonstrably more or less violent than anyone else in this stupid fantasy world. All that lady is proving is that the Society of Brilliance has some real bracing racial stereotypes.

*nods sagely while also murdering lady esther with Lae'zel*

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Woolie Wool posted:

The Forgotten Realms is Murder World, Bhaal is the secret true overgod

It's wild how many dialogue options end in whoever you're talking to deciding to murder you (or vice versa). It's like all the stupid stand your ground / castle doctrine laws taken to absurdist extremes. Oh you don't want to hold the door for me at the Taco Bell? HOPE THAT WAS WORTH DYING FOR, BITCH

Martian
May 29, 2005

Grimey Drawer
I accidently equipped a suit of armor meant for Lae'zel on my Wood Elf Tav, and it looked fine. Then I correctly equipped it on Lae'zel and suddenly it was covered in blood.

Racism??

SlothBear
Jan 25, 2009

SlimGoodbody posted:

The ones who don't play by the rules of being a huge piece of poo poo don't get to evolve past being a dretch or a mane or whatever it is that's the lowest form of demon, sort of like how you won't find any good billionaires. Maybe there are some good dretches and manes, idk cause you're not likely to ever meet them cause they're just gonna sit in a slime pit at the bottom of another dimension. Escalating in power in demon society requires choices and behaviors that mark you as evil. The more powerful you've been able to become, the more evil you are. It's basically just capitalism.

Demons/devils are one of the few D&D monsters I'm fine painting with the Literally Always Dangerously Evil, Untrustworthy, and Anti-Human brush, because they aren't flesh and blood creatures with real, human motivations. They are coalesced metaphor about our darkest impulses. If they were a different metaphor, they wouldn't be demons. A demon who stops being evil stops being a demon. A billionaire who stops being evil stops being a billionaire.

Absolutely correct, and to ad to this the mortals who are reborn as those lower rank devils are the ones who have sold their souls or dedicated their lives to the fiendish powers, so the lemures and dretches are the ones who have signed on to play this game in the first place. I'll avoid the temptation to keep the capitalism metaphor going to avoid derailing too much, but it's a very appropriate one.

It's why Wyll being cursed to be a lemure would be eternal if he isn't saved from that fate. If you accept that he isn't greedy, violent, treacherous, etc., then he isn't ever going to be anything but a near-mindless wretch once he's tossed into hell.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Docjowles posted:

It's wild how many dialogue options end in whoever you're talking to deciding to murder you (or vice versa). It's like all the stupid stand your ground / castle doctrine laws taken to absurdist extremes. Oh you don't want to hold the door for me at the Taco Bell? HOPE THAT WAS WORTH DYING FOR, BITCH

I mean fantasy is based on a period of European history when Europe was run by armed thugs and their failsons who would murder each other over a petty insult

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

Do things like lightning charges and heat convergence and radiant orbs exist in tabletop d&d?

Lieutenant Dan
Oct 27, 2009

Weedlord Bonerhitler
I might've cheesed the Cazador fight a little. Brought Astarion with me, had him stealth out of sight somewhere in the back for almost the entire battle so Caz wouldn't ascend, knocked Caz out in a few rounds, brought Astarion back in to finish him off, and suddenly he's shirtless and wailing, despite never being captured. Kind of digging it

SlothBear
Jan 25, 2009

Jay Rust posted:

Do things like lightning charges and heat convergence and radiant orbs exist in tabletop d&d?

Nope.

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001

exquisite tea posted:

A 1/160,0000 chance, now we're approaching original Phantasy Star Online Psycho Wand rarity.
wake me up when we get into Zod rune drop numbers

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OzFactor
Apr 16, 2001
I have questions about the timeline of the astral prism. I am terrible at playing all the way through games but I have played deep into act 3 several times and I still do not have answers to these questions so I must be missing things.

Where is it before the game starts? Is there any info in the game that says where Shadowheart and her crew were sent to steal it? Did they steal it, and then just happen to get caught by illithids, or was it on the first nautiloid, or what? Or is it in Avernus? Or below Moonrise? Or is it implied that they steal it directly from Vlaakith? Maybe some of this is explained in a Shadowheart origin.

edit: or is it that the Emperor stole it, and got it stolen again by the Sharrans?

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