(Thread IKs:
OwlFancier, crispix)
|
Cimber posted:Isn't Skara Brae on the Orkney Islands, which is part of the UK? It's not Wales though.  edit: The Fiat 124 came out in 1966. 
Just Another Lurker fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Apr 2, 2024 |
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 15:01 |
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:24
|
|
|
So as a UK citizen who's never lived in the UK, based on Jaeluni's story about the gentleman at the bus station... what happens if you go into cardiac arrest and someone calls for an ambulance? Are you just dead?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:28
|
|
|
Depends. Are you feeling lucky today.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:31
|
|
|
When you call the ambulance they essentially triage you over the phone, if you give an indication of being immediately about to cark it then you will get priority but yes if they're busy you just die. We do have AEDs in a bunch of places though, which I imagine are about as effective as an ambulance accounting for transit time even from a well staffed ambuance service out in the sticks. I got asked to cart myself to A and E because they didn't have an ambulance handy last month. Basically the idea being "if you're going to keel over try to do it in the hospital please"
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:31
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:So as a UK citizen who's never lived in the UK, based on Jaeluni's story about the gentleman at the bus station... what happens if you go into cardiac arrest and someone calls for an ambulance? Are you just dead? Probably! Apparently one of the passers-by who saw the guy collapse ran over to the nearby GPs' surgery (literally 3 mins from the bus station) and they refused to come out and help! I know that if you're a medical doc or nurse & happen to witness something happening it can be a bit dodge to assist (when I saw a bit dodge I mean in terms of insurance & liability etc), but to call out directly docs who are in the docs' consulting rooms, not sure that would be the same? There are a couple of defibrillators about town but there aren't any close to where the guy collapsed. (And no idea if it was his heart or not anyway).
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:33
|
|
|
No "Good Samaritan" laws in the UK? Ed: AED won't fire unless you are in certain sorts of cardiac distress Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:38
|
|
|
Its no worse here than anywhere else
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:41
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:Its no worse here than anywhere else In Toronto (born/raised) or Copenhagen (currently living) 3+ hours would be insane. But that's a major/capital city.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:43
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:No "Good Samaritan" laws in the UK? Apparently there is this (which I never heard of before!) https://blogs.law.ox.ac.uk/family-and-medical-law/blog-post/2023/08/liability-good-samaritans-medical-emergencies Interesting article. quote:To encourage good Samaritans to help people in distress in the UK, the Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism Act, 2015 (SARHA) was enacted. The law seeks to protect good Samaritans from legal claims when a recipient of emergency care is harmed in the process.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:46
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:In Toronto (born/raised) or Copenhagen (currently living) 3+ hours would be insane. But that's a major/capital city. A quick google shows multiple stories of Canadian ambulances wait times being hours.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:47
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:No "Good Samaritan" laws in the UK?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:49
|
|
|
I'm a health professional and if I don't provide chest compressions to someone I find in cardiac arrest, or offer help to a paramedic who is doing the same, then I could be fired (if my employer finds out who I am and what I didn't do). Also, I worked in a GP practice years and years ago, and a couple of GPs ran outside to help a guy in a van who'd had a suspected stroke. Of course, if you're a GP employed by a company owned by a hedge fund, maybe it's not worth the effort to give a poo poo (or maybe the receptionist just told the passer-by to gently caress off).
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 20:59
|
|
|
In your case that's just an enforcement of the Hippocratic Oath isn't it? In terms of a duty to provide help to someone in front of you?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:00
|
|
|
poster's oath. If I found someone in desperate need I would run to the top of the nearest hill to get reception to post about it here
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:03
|
|
|
NJAN99 found dead after seeing someone get hit by lightning, running to the top of the hill to post about it and instantly getting struck by lightning
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:09
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:In your case that's just an enforcement of the Hippocratic Oath isn't it? In terms of a duty to provide help to someone in front of you? Yeah that's Hippocrat's First Law: A physician may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:10
|
|
|
I always hated the three laws of Doctorics: Undergrad, Master and PhD
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:14
|
|
|
I'm not a doctor, so the Hippocratic Oath doesn't apply
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:15
|
|
|
kingturnip posted:I'm not a doctor, so the Hippocratic Oath doesn't apply nice try but I know someone who's legally qualified to probe my rear end and I'm not wasting the opportunity. meet me behind the privacy curtain
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:17
|
|
|
kingturnip posted:I'm not a doctor, so the Hippocratic Oath doesn't apply Cub scout honour?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:18
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:A quick google shows multiple stories of Canadian ambulances wait times being hours. Yeah I think the average wait time in Ottawa where I live is ~2.5 hours and there have been instances of them hitting "level zero" where no ambulances are available. poo poo's hosed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:21
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:In your case that's just an enforcement of the Hippocratic Oath isn't it? In terms of a duty to provide help to someone in front of you? In Finland it's in the law that you MUST provide help to someone in distress IF you are capable of doing so, otherwise you will be criminally liable. There's two laws, one is negligence of someone unable to tend to themselves. E.g. if you see some drunkard passed out in the snow and you intentionally ignore them and they freeze to death, you could end in the slammer. The other one is negligence of rescue, like if you see someone drowning or burning or having a medical condition and do nothing when you are capable of helping them. Helping others is mandatory. But the law takes into account that people don't always act rationally or effectively in emergencies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:22
|
|
|
We keep providing less funding but the service just keeps getting worse! Gods what can be done!
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:22
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:In Finland it's in the law that you MUST provide help to someone in distress IF you are capable of doing so, otherwise you will be criminally liable. There's two laws, one is negligence of someone unable to tend to themselves. E.g. if you see some drunkard passed out in the snow and you intentionally ignore them and they freeze to death, you could end in the slammer. The other one is negligence of rescue, like if you see someone drowning or burning or having a medical condition and do nothing when you are capable of helping them. Helping others is mandatory. But the law takes into account that people don't always act rationally or effectively in emergencies. I'm always in two minds about these laws because I believe in any society you have the right to be a coward, but I do like the idea of a civic duty to not leave someone to die.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:23
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:In Finland it's in the law that you MUST provide help to someone in distress IF you are capable of doing so, otherwise you will be criminally liable. There's two laws, one is negligence of someone unable to tend to themselves. E.g. if you see some drunkard passed out in the snow and you intentionally ignore them and they freeze to death, you could end in the slammer. The other one is negligence of rescue, like if you see someone drowning or burning or having a medical condition and do nothing when you are capable of helping them. Helping others is mandatory. But the law takes into account that people don't always act rationally or effectively in emergencies. what if you dont like them?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:24
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:I'm always in two minds about these laws because I believe in any society you have the right to be a coward, but I do like the idea of a civic duty to not leave someone to die. I say throw cowards off a cliff, we will do better without 
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:24
|
|
|
like the zeroth law or whatever. if you see rees mogg drowning it is actually technically saving more lives to just walk on by
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:25
|
|
|
kingturnip posted:I'm a health professional and if I don't provide chest compressions to someone I find in cardiac arrest, or offer help to a paramedic who is doing the same, then I could be fired (if my employer finds out who I am and what I didn't do). Interesting. I wasn't there at the time they went over to the GPs but actually that is more likely the receptionist told them that. Maybe there wasn't a doc there at the time, they split time between the one in our town & another town about 10 miles down the road. (Trying to give the best interpretation here!) When you say 'years and years' ago, how long? In the 1990s I worked in the NHS (Works/Estates Depts not medical) at a big London hospital & someone collapsed outside the entrance to A&E but no one would come out to help him, an ambulance had to be called!
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:26
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:like the zeroth law or whatever. if you see rees mogg drowning it is actually technically saving more lives to just walk on by that'd be a waste, I'd practise my stone skimming his mouth's the bullseye
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:A quick google shows multiple stories of Canadian ambulances wait times being hours. Let's compare service targets hey? London NHS Trust triages ambulances in 4 levels: Category one: for life-threatening injuries and illnesses, specifically cardiac arrest. These will need to be responded to in an average time of seven minutes. Category two: for emergency calls, such as stroke patients. These will need to be responded to in an average time of 18 minutes. Category three: for urgent calls such as abdominal pains, and which will include patients to be treated in their own home. These will be responded to at least nine out of 10 times within 120 minutes. Category four: less urgent calls such as diarrhoea and vomiting and back pain. Some of these patients will be given advice over the telephone or referred to another service such as a GP or pharmacist. These less urgent calls will be responded to at least nine out of 10 times within 180 minutes The Canadian CTAS scale is 1-5 plus a level "SCA" for serious cardiac events SCA - 6 min - NHS Category 1 - 7 min CTAS 1 - 8 min - NHS Category 2 - 18 min CTAS 2 - 10 min CTAS 3 - 15 min - NHS Category 3 - 120 min CTAS 4 - 20 min CTAS 5 - 25 min - NHS Category 4 - 180 min So yeah, compared to service targets, the *longest* you should wait on average for an ambulance in Toronto is 25 minutes, assuming you called in for a *sore throat* (cited in the CTAS guide as an example of CTAS 5). Now I believe long waits happen under the NHS - but nobody would accept those targets in Canada.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:38
|
|
|
maybe british people are just more resilient or worth less
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:41
|
|
|
Just for some anecdotal .. maybe it's a Scotland thing, maybe it was pure chance, maybe it's even more just a "there's nobody else in the highlands" thing or happenstance or whatever, but I've been lucky enough to not have many brushes with the NHS through my life. Until my dad was in such intense pain in the early hours of a Monday morning three weeks ago that he phoned for an ambulance, got picked up within half an hour from a tiny rural village between two tiny rural towns and taken straight to Raigmore. They've had him in the ICU and the experience has been held together entirely by how kind and communicative and nice the rotating array of nurses that have been taking care of both him and basically of us (with their explanations and positivity and kindness and presence) have been. With all the NHS horror stories I've read I was surprised how "good" of an experience it's been (outside of the whole "fuckin hell my dad has been in the ICU for 2 weeks what the gently caress"). Completely anecdotal, and who knows how much of it is chance, how much of it is the luck of population and location, how much of it is the Scottish government doing radical things like "paying doctors and nurses", but I've been so grateful.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 21:43
|
|
|
i'd like someone to help me if I had a heart attack, but I won't do anything to save anyone else. it's my hypocritic oath
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:04
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Probably! Apparently one of the passers-by who saw the guy collapse ran over to the nearby GPs' surgery (literally 3 mins from the bus station) and they refused to come out and help! The flip side to consider is that if GPs were indeed present in the surgery, they may well be busy with their own patients. If they came out to help then there will be no one available to deal with them and there is potential harm there as well as undoubtedly some of them would be there for emergency consults. Conversely - there is a mechanism in place to deal with someone who is in distress on the street (999) - in an ideal world this would work as intended unlike the poo poo multi-hour waits we have now. If there was a doctor or other healthcare professional just passing by then I would fully expect them to help, same if there was anyone not otherwise engaged in clinical care at the GP, but in this day and age running off for an hour to deal with someone on the street will easily leave 6 others in the lurch (since the 10 minutes they're given is already stretching the definition of "adequate")
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:11
|
|
|
The early hours of a Monday morning is probably the best time to need an ambulance. Hope your dad recovers soon Bob!
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:13
|
|
|
Angepain posted:i'd like someone to help me if I had a heart attack, but I won't do anything to save anyone else. it's my hypocritic oath Lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:18
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1775240996458045671 He's e: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/david-mencer-2645a830 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:26
|
|
|
huh, a fairly robust interview from channel 4 there. Fairplay.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 15:01 |
|
|
KGM is one of the better journos in this country tbf e: "we've got no beef with the ordinary people of gaza" yeah you've got no food at all with them you loving prick Nuclear Spoon fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 22:41
|
|
