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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. i remember thinking of buying this book about undertale and translation, the book was basicaly about how they translated undertale into japanese and how basicaly all the jokes are different because audiance stuff. I am sorta finally dipping my toe into anime at 33, so i find it sorta interesting. It's probably the Legends of Localization book which, yeah, I really want to read. I read the LoL Earthbound website before he started collecting these as actual books and it was fantastic so I keep meaning to pick up these three (there is also one for Legend of Zelda).
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Apr 2, 2024 18:22
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Yeah a good localization owns. loving blows my mind that there's this contingent of people who are rabidly anti-localization and pushing AI translation because woke or whatever.
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Apr 2, 2024 18:26
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, keep the spirit of the work and the tone and probably keep alot of the plot but change what you need too. Yup. Some purist scream bloody murder but they tend to complain about everything. Seeing translations and dubs improve over the last 30 years has been something to watch. It's also why so many are cringing over companies being giddy over using AI to do the translations. Zero passion and personility going to be in those.
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Apr 2, 2024 18:28
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My favorite example (which I've apparently posted about one hundred times lol):Data Graham posted:It's like that super-sentai show Dynaman, where the bad guys who do genetic manipulation are called "Jashinka"
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Apr 2, 2024 19:18
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Data Graham posted:My favorite example (which I've apparently posted about one hundred times lol): Proper localization is an absolute must and I understand the struggles different countries go through trying it get the spirit across in a way that the audience can understand. I don't really blame the japanese localization team for making some of the songs worse because in some ways it's the only way the message can get across. I just don't care for them taking creative liberties that ultimately add nothing. Carmilla sounds almost identical to her English voice for example but they dropped the ball hard on some others. Lucifer is just the one that stands out most to me. Ironically this time around Turkey was the real stand out dub in my opinion. Voices actors matched and had passion for the role and the songs were translated cleverly. Usually Turkey is kind of lackluster in the dubbing scene so this was an extremely pleasant surprise.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:04
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Flopsy posted:Proper localization is an absolute must and I understand the struggles different countries go through trying it get the spirit across in a way that the audience can understand. I don't really blame the japanese localization team for making some of the songs worse because in some ways it's the only way the message can get across. I just don't care for them taking creative liberties that ultimately add nothing. Carmilla sounds almost identical to her English voice for example but they dropped the ball hard on some others. Lucifer is just the one that stands out most to me. Ironically this time around Turkey was the real stand out dub in my opinion. Voices actors matched and had passion for the role and the songs were translated cleverly. Usually Turkey is kind of lackluster in the dubbing scene so this was an extremely pleasant surprise. Are the Japanese voices for the main crew decent at the very least (and does Adam still sound like a smarmy rear end in a top hat)? If I’ve heard correctly I believe Charlie’s the only one with a fairly decent amount of VA experience Larryb fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 21:11
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Larryb posted:Are the Japanese voices for the main crew decent at the very least (and does Adam still sound like a smarmy rear end in a top hat)? If I’ve heard correctly I believe Charlie’s the only one with a fairly decent amount of VA experience Charlie is perf, Vaggie is also very close to the original, Angel, Husk and Alastor are...fine I suppose not bad or anything but just not on the level of the originals. Niffty is good too. Adam is actually one of the best and I give the voice actor a lot props but he's not on Alex Brightman's level when it comes to the songs. Alex can do a rocker voice and imitate instrument effects immaculately. It's a pretty heavy lift to emulate, so again not his fault if he can't match a broadway actor. Basically I give the japanese dub a B-. It's fine for what it is but it doesn't come close to the original. Best dubs I've heard are the Italian one which even by international standards is considered VERY good, Turkish, and European Spanish on occasion. Angel's Italian voice is so drat good that some even questioned if it was the original voice actor at some points. Their songs also have the closest possible translations to the english version.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:52
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The Last Call posted:Yup. Some purist scream bloody murder but they tend to complain about everything. Seeing translations and dubs improve over the last 30 years has been something to watch. yeah, again i am not a big anime guy and most of my japanese media stuff is yoko taro, MGS or yakuza, like i think you should try to keep it relativly faithful to the meaning and poo poo and changing stuff willy nilly is dumb or going 4kids level changes, but outside that, i am fine with changing stuff so it works on more levels then just literal. Data Graham posted:My favorite example (which I've apparently posted about one hundred times lol): lol Flopsy posted:Proper localization is an absolute must and I understand the struggles different countries go through trying it get the spirit across in a way that the audience can understand. I don't really blame the japanese localization team for making some of the songs worse because in some ways it's the only way the message can get across. I just don't care for them taking creative liberties that ultimately add nothing. Carmilla sounds almost identical to her English voice for example but they dropped the ball hard on some others. Lucifer is just the one that stands out most to me. Ironically this time around Turkey was the real stand out dub in my opinion. Voices actors matched and had passion for the role and the songs were translated cleverly. Usually Turkey is kind of lackluster in the dubbing scene so this was an extremely pleasant surprise. I think i knew one of the people who did a russian fan dub of helluva boss and did a pretty good version of stolas, least singing. lost the link but idk. Apperently he is in turkey now. not sure.
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Apr 2, 2024 22:03
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Also in rewatching it again I’d forgotten that pretty much every character except the named angels makes an appearance in the original pilot (though most of them as silent cameos), though we do at least see a few Executioners in the opening song
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Apr 2, 2024 22:39
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This will always and forever be my favorite localization gag, from the first Pokemon movie when Team Rocket are disguised as Vikings to ferry the gang to Mewtwo's island: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsoTBO8Y9AY "I didn't know Vikings still existed!" "They mostly live in Minnesota!" --- gently caress 1:1 literal translation.
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Apr 3, 2024 02:41
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I also like the Aggretsuko dub, it went hard Subtitles: "That's our society's bottleneck. I want to restructure our society." Dub: "Late stage capitalism is such a pain. That's why it's gotta go!"  
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Apr 3, 2024 03:23
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Flopsy posted:Charlie is perf, Vaggie is also very close to the original, Angel, Husk and Alastor are...fine I suppose not bad or anything but just not on the level of the originals. Niffty is good too. Adam is actually one of the best and I give the voice actor a lot props but he's not on Alex Brightman's level when it comes to the songs. Alex can do a rocker voice and imitate instrument effects immaculately. It's a pretty heavy lift to emulate, so again not his fault if he can't match a broadway actor. Basically I give the japanese dub a B-. It's fine for what it is but it doesn't come close to the original. Best dubs I've heard are the Italian one which even by international standards is considered VERY good, Turkish, and European Spanish on occasion. Angel's Italian voice is so drat good that some even questioned if it was the original voice actor at some points. Their songs also have the closest possible translations to the english version. Is there a way to see the dubs with their localised translations? I feel like I can't find things that are truly subtitled and not just the original english audio subtitles slapped on.
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Apr 3, 2024 09:55
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Pyrotoad posted:Is there a way to see the dubs with their localised translations? I feel like I can't find things that are truly subtitled and not just the original english audio subtitles slapped on. I believe the subtitles on Amazon are tailored to the English version, so unless you can speak the language probably not sadly. Speaking of, it’s odd Viv hosted the Japanese dub of the pilot on her channel but didn’t provide any subtitles for it (it probably wouldn’t be that hard to just dump the English script in there)
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Apr 3, 2024 12:53
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Data Graham posted:I also like the Aggretsuko dub, it went hard Aggretsuko is fantastic.
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Apr 3, 2024 17:32
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One notable stand out in the Japanese dub (not in a good way) is the song “You Didn’t Know” where Emily sounds like she inhaled half the worlds supply of helium and Sera just sounds kind of weird. I don’t think either of the VA’s were used to singing in their careers. Not that I blame them, because that’s not really a common skill set. It was very interesting recognizing some of the VA’s from anime and hearing their singing voice for the first time. I agree that the Italian and Turkish dubs were very good - I really liked the Latin American Spanish dub as well. One thing I wasn’t sure of in regards to localization was for songs like “Respectless”: were the different tones and vocal attitudes (not sure what kind of vocab to use) a localization change or just those particular VA’s interpretations of the song? Because some of them sounded really weird and not at all like the original.
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Apr 3, 2024 22:07
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day-gas posted:One notable stand out in the Japanese dub (not in a good way) is the song “You Didn’t Know” where Emily sounds like she inhaled half the worlds supply of helium and Sera just sounds kind of weird. I don’t think either of the VA’s were used to singing in their careers. Not that I blame them, because that’s not really a common skill set. It was very interesting recognizing some of the VA’s from anime and hearing their singing voice for the first time. Emily got the squeakiest voice in the show which was kinda an odd choice given her original was more of a tenor than a soprano. It's like they thought; okay we gotta squeeze in some kinda loli voice somewhere--oh there's an angel chick? Eh GOOD ENOUGH.
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Apr 3, 2024 23:26
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Adam and Lute are pretty good in the dub at least (as mentioned, the former’s no Alex Brightman especially when it comes to singing but he tries his best). Charlie and Niffty are about as perfect as you can get and I sort of like Japanese Pentious and Val as well (the former even shares a VA with Adam just like in the English version) I see what you meant about Lucifer though him being played by Jiren from Dragon Ball is kind of cool. I appreciate them doing the best they could with Alastor since the kind of filter he had originally never really existed in Japanese radio (so they used the closest equivalent instead) Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 23:50
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Larryb posted:Adam and Lute are pretty good in the dub at least (as mentioned, the former’s no Alex Brightman especially when it comes to singing but he tries his best). Charlie and Niffty are about as perfect as you can get and I sort of like Japanese Pentious and Val as well (the former even shares a VA with Adam just like in the English version) I agree they did the best they could. As it stands the only thing that really sticks in my craw was Lucifer everything else is more or less expected. As for where to find localized lyrics oddly enough they're in youtube comment sections for the dubbed songs. Lotta people come forward with their versions of the lyrics but you might have to run some through google translate.
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Apr 4, 2024 00:41
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Anyone want to guess what day the next Helluva Boss episode is going to drop? It's suppose to be this month right.
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Apr 4, 2024 01:41
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The Last Call posted:Anyone want to guess what day the next Helluva Boss episode is going to drop? Allegedly but still no update yet
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Apr 4, 2024 01:44
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Larryb posted:Allegedly but still no update yet Speak of the Devil. https://twitter.com/IMPmurderpros/status/1775740914784494066 Literally lol.
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Apr 4, 2024 06:19
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Just finished watching season one of Hazbin Hotel. I don't know if this is a common experience but I was kind of cold on it until a few episodes in and then it reaaaaaaally started to click for me and by the end I loved it; "The Show Must Go On" is probably my favourite episode of tv from this year. I'm kind of a theatre nerd so obviously the songs being loving killer and the cast being almost entirely made up of Broadway actors who to a person are utterly amazing helps a lot, but for me the show's biggest appeal and the thing I'm going to find it hardest to pitch the people I know on is: It's clear to me that it's biggest influence is in the very specific and impossible to describe culture that existed around 2000-2006 on message boards, Deviantart and Fanfiction.net. Finding out that the creator is a webcomic artist made everything fall together for me; the style and humour is very reminiscent of every fanboard and webcomic I was part of during that time. Like, in the first few episodes it's very webcomic-like in that the characters appear to be extremely atypical and one-note, the humour is very grimdark, there's a clear and stark divide between This Character Is Good and This One Is Bad, the main character feels like a self-insert etc, but then as it goes on it turns out that the lore is simultaneously easy-to-understand but very deep and fascinating, the characters start to become more and more complicated to the point that you can't predict where their arcs are going to go or how they're going to react to the situations they find themselves in, then halfway through the season it starts introducing genuinely difficult philosophical questions and fascinating mysteries to how the world works. The two extremely webcomic/fan-fiction moments in the finale - Sir Pentious declaring his love for Cherrybomb and Lucifer flying in very Deus Ex Machina-like to easily defeat Adam and save the day were both very well-earned moments that served as satisfying ends to character arcs. Very excited to see where this goes in the future, and I started my Helluva Boss run yesterday.
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Apr 4, 2024 09:31
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Adrianics posted:Just finished watching season one of Hazbin Hotel. I don't know if this is a common experience but I was kind of cold on it until a few episodes in and then it reaaaaaaally started to click for me and by the end I loved it; "The Show Must Go On" is probably my favourite episode of tv from this year. As someone who asked the thread about it and had the same exact experience as you, yes it is pretty common, which remains weird.
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Apr 4, 2024 11:30
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Adrianics posted:It's clear to me that it's biggest influence is in the very specific and impossible to describe culture that existed around 2000-2006 on message boards, Deviantart and Fanfiction.net. That was exactly it for me too, watching the pilot was like watching all my favourite edgy childhood Original the Characters running around.
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Apr 4, 2024 12:13
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Episode 4 is when everything suddenly really started to gel, for me and some others in here.
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Apr 4, 2024 12:22
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Yep, I was all in after becoming a fan of Helluva Boss and spent the first few eps going ".. but I don't like this as much?" before it really started clicking for me.
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Apr 4, 2024 13:32
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Pyrotoad posted:That was exactly it for me too, watching the pilot was like watching all my favourite edgy childhood Original the Characters running around. It's such a crazy time that nonetheless had a huge influence on me, my sense of humour and love of pop culture so it's wild seeing someone taking the vibes and making something genuinely loving great out of it!
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Apr 4, 2024 13:55
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My question is whether Helluva Boss gives you those same vibes. I'm not sure myself, since I don't think I was a part of that same subculture really. My feeling is that HB is a lot more scattershot in its focus from episode to episode, i.e. it's not trying to tell as much of an overarching "lore" story, but the characterizations are uniformly of a different style than Hazbin—namely all the main cast are genuinely good people who are trying to exorcise their past demons (as it were) and improve themselves. The character portraits end up a lot richer and more intricate than in Hazbin by and large and I think ultimately it makes it a way more satisfying show, to me. e: it's actually an interesting counterpoint to Hazbin where the whole gimmick is that the main cast is all "bad people" who need to try to show a glimmer of redeemability in order to achieve the end goal, and Sir Pentious is the first one to actually get there lol. Which means that all the others—Angel, Husk, even Charlie and Vaggie—have to be ostensibly "bad people" and yet relatable and fun protagonists, in much the same way that the Good Place main cast are all just kinda flawed in pretty unremarkable ways but aside from being like uhhhh "indecisive" or "stupid" or "vain" are all really obviously protagonist-coded nice folks who you can believe in making it to the Good Place in the end. Helluva Boss by contrast allows all its cast to just be self-aware, conscientious people right from the word go, which puts them on a whole different narrative path. Data Graham fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 14:00
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Yeah, HB doesn’t really hit its stride until late season 1/early season 2 for me though it still has its fair share of complex characters I didn’t hate early Hazbin (even the pilot was fun in my opinion) but I agree that episode 4 is where things really start to click overall
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Apr 4, 2024 14:04
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Data Graham posted:My question is whether Helluva Boss gives you those same vibes. I'm not sure myself, since I don't think I was a part of that same subculture really. It's so hard to put my finger on why but four episodes in, it doesn't. It carries heavy vibes of the late 90s-early 00s cartoons aimed at slightly older kids, particularly Invader Zim (which isn't surprising considering one of the lead VAs and voice director) and Ren & Stimpy. So far the characters don't seem nearly as complicated as the ones in HH but I know this will come with time.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:32
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I was kind of skeptical going in but I after a few episodes I fell in love. This was kind of my experience with the ponies so I shouldn't be too surprised.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:36
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Adrianics posted:Just finished watching season one of Hazbin Hotel. I don't know if this is a common experience but I was kind of cold on it until a few episodes in and then it reaaaaaaally started to click for me and by the end I loved it; "The Show Must Go On" is probably my favourite episode of tv from this year. yeah the final song is loving great and doesnt get enough love. I am not a theater nerd but i always love the big final medly type songs and that hits my soft spot right. even the joke versions make it work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9M-neip0dU Larryb posted:Yeah, HB doesn’t really hit its stride until late season 1/early season 2 for me though it still has its fair share of complex characters this. i think if her shows have a problem, it has a bit of an issue of figuring out what it wants to do and kinda just spins plates until it figures out which ones it wants to keep. like to be fair. loo loo land is the episdoe that clicked for me. but even then season 1 was kinda all over the place and 2 has been mostly good over all.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:41
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Stolas' song in Ep. 2, god dammit just mentioning it and now it's going to be stuck in my brain all day againLammasu posted:I was kind of skeptical going in but I after a few episodes I fell in love. This was kind of my experience with the ponies so I shouldn't be too surprised. There's uummm some overlap I would say, namely in how the characterizations work. There is no "heroes and villains", it's all about understanding what makes each one work and how they bounce off each other if you really go all-in on writing them to that degree of emotional investment.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:45
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah the final song is loving great and doesnt get enough love. I am not a theater nerd but i always love the big final medly type songs and that hits my soft spot right. even the joke versions make it work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9M-neip0dU Yeah I love the final song, but the final episode is just so fantastic in so many ways. It has a ruthless and breathtaking pace, the battle logic and choreography is simultaneously chaotic but logical, there's some very surprising twists (Razzle  ) and the final tease with The Vs and Alastair is just amazing!
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Apr 4, 2024 14:52
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Adrianics posted:It's so hard to put my finger on why but four episodes in, it doesn't. It carries heavy vibes of the late 90s-early 00s cartoons aimed at slightly older kids, particularly Invader Zim (which isn't surprising considering one of the lead VAs and voice director) and Ren & Stimpy. So far the characters don't seem nearly as complicated as the ones in HH but I know this will come with time. There's some Nicktoons DNA in Helluva Boss in particular, I'm pretty sure. (Hence casting the voice of Zim and Dagget) I think the trick is it's what happens when you take that kinda style and tone and unshackle it from the demands of kids networks, so it can have sex, blood, death, swears, and continuity. Also, as I said before, so much makes sense when you look at Brandon Rogers' own stuff. Blitzo is actually him toned down from a living cartoon character.
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Apr 5, 2024 06:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's some Nicktoons DNA in Helluva Boss in particular, I'm pretty sure. (Hence casting the voice of Zim and Dagget) I think the trick is it's what happens when you take that kinda style and tone and unshackle it from the demands of kids networks, so it can have sex, blood, death, swears, and continuity. Kinda of the thing that most people don't get is Blitzo literally is Brandon Rogers author insert. Like the dude is half the writing team so any decisions the fans are bitching about concerning him really don't deserve to be heaped at Viv's feet. She's not making unilateral decisions on Helluva Boss.
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Apr 5, 2024 08:50
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Flopsy posted:Kinda of the thing that most people don't get is Blitzo literally is Brandon Rogers author insert. Like the dude is half the writing team so any decisions the fans are bitching about concerning him really don't deserve to be heaped at Viv's feet. She's not making unilateral decisions on Helluva Boss. I looked him up and he's gay while Blitzo is clearly bi. I know nothing about this guy.
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Apr 5, 2024 10:53
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Flopsy posted:Kinda of the thing that most people don't get is Blitzo literally is Brandon Rogers author insert. Like the dude is half the writing team so any decisions the fans are bitching about concerning him really don't deserve to be heaped at Viv's feet. She's not making unilateral decisions on Helluva Boss. This. If you watched any of his stuff. It shows exactly where a lot of that poo poo poo poo. Dudes edgy as gently caress but mostly funny.
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Apr 5, 2024 11:22
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Flopsy posted:Kinda of the thing that most people don't get is Blitzo literally is Brandon Rogers author insert. Like the dude is half the writing team so any decisions the fans are bitching about concerning him really don't deserve to be heaped at Viv's feet. She's not making unilateral decisions on Helluva Boss. Yup. I view Helluva more of Brandons show than Vivs, oh she's the creator and the big boss in charge. But it's still *HIS* show, if ya know what I mean. Some of the stuff that comes up in Helluva feels very personal and I bet came from experience or seeing others go through similar things. It's why it came come off so drat touching. And that's probably before and after all the murder, cursing and whatever madness happens. The show has a voice and it's Brandon.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:25
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The Last Call posted:Yup. its a mix, the humor is brandons, the character drama and designs and part of the heart is hers. https://twitter.com/redthespian1/status/1776297464670093333 also i laughed.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:31
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