(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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I've played in a lot of groups and I've never met anyone in real life that about hated or even cared about alignment, and more often than not it's just a template starting point for creating a new character. All it means is there's some spells you're probably not going to use, and maybe you're not going to be favored by some random deity or use a bit of equipment for your theoretical level 20 character.
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Apr 3, 2024 13:12
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I stick to games without D&D's Alignment grid because alignments are dumb as hell. There's some very good reasons why Larian threw them out when making Baldur's Gate 3.
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Apr 3, 2024 13:25
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https://twitter.com/DragonCobolt/status/1775311968305561726?t=YCAglTFEeCUD0Qttnc0lMw&s=19 Lol makes sense in an "I'm a complete grognard" way.
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Apr 3, 2024 13:44
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Runa posted:skill issue Trying to pull that off on a college campus between 2000 and 2004 was like trying to complete a no-hit run on Dark Souls.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:12
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LanceHunter posted:On the one hand, Gygax was a scumbag and D&D still carries a lot of his bad baggage. On the other hand, the people I know who seem to argue hardest for not playing D&D and going for more “storyteller”-based RPGs are also the ones who most want to throw in their weird fetishes into the games they run. (If you’re playing In Nomine and the GM pulls out an over-leveled Lilim NPC, just walk away from the table right then and there.) Oh, story gamers play the hell out of D&D, especially now in the wake of Critical Role. 5E is not a great system for it, mind you, 5E barely does D&D much less anything else, but they play it a lot.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:25
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The original Baldur's Gate succeeded despite faithfully adapting a rather rubbish ruleset, 2nd AD&D. (I really wish Beamdog hadn't tried adding to the canon) While the reception to Pillars 1 was lukewarm, the sequel is a classic with none of the grognard crap from its obvious inspiration. The thing about D&D is that all the stuff that defined it like alignment can be easily cut. Only a handful of poo poo like Beholders are copyright, and a company can just make their own equivalent. The name "D&D" has commercial weight, but dealing with Hasbro sounds like more trouble than its worth. https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1771151155545911474?s=20
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Apr 3, 2024 14:25
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Mr Interweb posted:since we're on the subject of GOOD bad video game adaptations, does anyone else love mortal kombat: annihilation? I know this is 10 pages old, but I have suddenly remembered being 11 and renting the VHS of this and watching it with my cousins, then being blown away that they killed off Johnny Cage not 10 minutes into the movie including the VHS previews.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:27
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Arc Hammer posted:https://twitter.com/DragonCobolt/status/1775311968305561726?t=YCAglTFEeCUD0Qttnc0lMw&s=19 Extra funny given how the "Old School" style of play says combat is a fail state and playing without using your brain gets you D. E. A. D.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:30
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Dawgstar posted:Oh, story gamers play the hell out of D&D, especially now in the wake of Critical Role. 5E is not a great system for it, mind you, 5E barely does D&D much less anything else, but they play it a lot. Questing Beast actually did a pretty compelling video on that very thing recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UIPeQ6G6hI Not sure I 100% agree, but it definitely made me think more about certain mechanics in the games I run.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:33
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im playing icewind dale for the first time RN after having such a good time with planescape torment and i laughed irl out loud when i saw that it was thac0 and realizing i was about to be doing so much math
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Apr 3, 2024 14:39
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gigyax shouldve read some walt whitman
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Apr 3, 2024 14:53
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Questing Beast actually did a pretty compelling video on that very thing recently:
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Apr 3, 2024 14:57
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fun hater posted:im playing icewind dale for the first time RN after having such a good time with planescape torment and i laughed irl out loud when i saw that it was thac0 and realizing i was about to be doing so much math Icewind Dale is great fun, if you realize it's less an RPG and more a tactical strategy game. You'll be fighting ridiculous numbers of enemies throughout the game. Entire armies will try to swamp you while you carefully pause and plan how the gently caress you survive this next swarm. It's fun, but so completely different from Planescape Torment it can give you mental whiplash.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:24
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Libluini posted:Icewind Dale is great fun, if you realize it's less an RPG and more a tactical strategy game. You'll be fighting ridiculous numbers of enemies throughout the game. Entire armies will try to swamp you while you carefully pause and plan how the gently caress you survive this next swarm. It's fun, but so completely different from Planescape Torment it can give you mental whiplash. ID is the only game where real time with pause ever clicked with me.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:25
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Libluini posted:Icewind Dale is great fun, if you realize it's less an RPG and more a tactical strategy game. You'll be fighting ridiculous numbers of enemies throughout the game. Entire armies will try to swamp you while you carefully pause and plan how the gently caress you survive this next swarm. It's fun, but so completely different from Planescape Torment it can give you mental whiplash. Libluini posted:Icewind Dale is great fun, if you realize it's less an RPG and more a tactical strategy game. You'll be fighting ridiculous numbers of enemies throughout the game. Entire armies will try to swamp you while you carefully pause and plan how the gently caress you survive this next swarm. It's fun, but so completely different from Planescape Torment it can give you mental whiplash. i have sierra's "lords of magic" under my belt so i think i can work with it. it has been a huge surprise though. why are all these goblins so mean to me
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Apr 3, 2024 15:29
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Like, I have a couple (hacky, bad) tabletop games that I sell on itch. I have a very, very minor vested interest in people spending less money on D&D and more on indie games. But ultimately, the only thing D&D brings to the table is brand names and iconography. It is middling-to-awful at everything else.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:29
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Questing Beast actually did a pretty compelling video on that very thing recently: The guy in the article talking about how he's the one who brings all emotion and relationship stuff to the game feels like he's convinced himself that it's actually cool and good that 5E is about the hand-waviest game for anything not related to combat ever, even saying combat is the only thing he needs rules for. It's weird he needs granularity for combat when everything else is up to him but this is what D&D can do to a person. Somebody in the comments section of the video pointed out there's a growing number of TTRPG players who are getting tired of the 'ask your GM' approach to rules. 5E is bad about it and so Critical Role's own RPG (now in beta) Daggerheart.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:31
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Dawgstar posted:The guy in the article talking about how he's the one who brings all emotion and relationship stuff to the game feels like he's convinced himself that it's actually cool and good that 5E is about the hand-waviest game for anything not related to combat ever, even saying combat is the only thing he needs rules for. It's weird he needs granularity for combat when everything else is up to him but this is what D&D can do to a person. Are you telling me the writer of Strong Female Protagonist might be kind of a dumbass about heady ideas or troublesome specifics of systemic dilemmas? Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 15:42
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Nuns with Guns posted:Are you telling me the writer of Strong Female Protagonist might be kind of a dumbass about heady ideas or troublesome specifics of systemic dilemmas? My laugh at reading you pointing out it's that guy startled my dogs.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:47
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Questing Beast actually did a pretty compelling video on that very thing recently: this is a really good breakdown of the intent of rules in storytelling, abstracting, and improv. the rigidity of using the rules no matter how ill-fitted they are the "plot" in tabletop games is something i have a really hard time enjoying or getting around so its interesting to hear this discussion framed in a way that's clearly about considering it as an art-form and not just people's personal petty fiefdoms Nuns with Guns posted:Are you telling me the writer of Strong Female Protagonist might be kind of a dumbass about heady ideas or troublesome specifics of systemic dilemmas? i literally forget that's his name every single time.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:47
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Inspector Gesicht posted:The original Baldur's Gate succeeded despite faithfully adapting a rather rubbish ruleset, 2nd AD&D. (I really wish Beamdog hadn't tried adding to the canon) While the reception to Pillars 1 was lukewarm, the sequel is a classic with none of the grognard crap from its obvious inspiration. Hasboro/WOTC fired almost everyone Larian worked with on BG3, this was entirely sensible on Larian’s part. Just two great examples of how often capitalism rewards making the dumbest decisions possible (Hasboro/WOTC still dominating the RPG space despite being horrifically run).
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Apr 3, 2024 15:58
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Arc Hammer posted:https://twitter.com/DragonCobolt/status/1775311968305561726?t=YCAglTFEeCUD0Qttnc0lMw&s=19 lol
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Apr 3, 2024 16:02
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fun hater posted:im playing icewind dale for the first time RN after having such a good time with planescape torment and i laughed irl out loud when i saw that it was thac0 and realizing i was about to be doing so much math Multiple times I've searched for videos or articles arguing positively in favor of thac0, and all I've ever found is people coming up with "easier" variations and complaining that it's not that hard and kids these days don't wanna do math anymore.
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Apr 3, 2024 16:02
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its very funny because throughout its entire existence dungeons and dragons has been owned by people who cant run a business
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Apr 3, 2024 16:03
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gary gygax held up in hollywood trying to sell dungeons and dragons to executives for movies and cartoons ignoring everything else while TSR did stupid poo poo Lorraine Williams obsessed with Buck Rogers to the detriment of everything and hasbro is a mega corporation that only cares about big numbers
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Apr 3, 2024 16:07
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While Thac0 took the piss with it just being an Accuracy stat that was poorly explained, the arbitrary range of numbers between 18 Strength and 19 Strength was pure bollocks.
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Apr 3, 2024 16:07
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all of gygax's campaigns make sense when you realize they are that way because his players would outsmart so he would later put in some bullshit trap that would kill them if they ever tried that again
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Apr 3, 2024 16:08
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fun hater posted:this is a really good breakdown of the intent of rules in storytelling, abstracting, and improv. the rigidity of using the rules no matter how ill-fitted they are the "plot" in tabletop games is something i have a really hard time enjoying or getting around so its interesting to hear this discussion framed in a way that's clearly about considering it as an art-form and not just people's personal petty fiefdoms
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Apr 3, 2024 16:26
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I only caught the tail end of the mockery of Strong Female Protagonist. Is there a good breakdown of it that I can read?
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Apr 3, 2024 16:34
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cumpantry posted:gigyax shouldve read some walt whitman you cannot grasp the true form of gigyax's attack!
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Apr 3, 2024 16:43
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Clerical Terrors posted:Multiple times I've searched for videos or articles arguing positively in favor of thac0, and all I've ever found is people coming up with "easier" variations and complaining that it's not that hard and kids these days don't wanna do math anymore. only time thac0 didnt really cause friction in play was when i was running a meatgrinder style becmi game for some buddies and we all just printed tables out and just checked those visually rather than even attempting any kind of math
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Apr 3, 2024 16:48
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I liked how lightly sketched Dungeon World was and really enjoyed how I could build the framework to an interesting story using it no I won't read any further about it gootbye
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Apr 3, 2024 16:49
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Hainbach with the thumbnail if the year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f91TaK2zn5w This channel is always a pleasant watch, and I enjoy his music very much.
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Apr 3, 2024 16:50
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Nucleic Acids posted:Hasboro/WOTC fired almost everyone Larian worked with on BG3, this was entirely sensible on Larian’s part. On the other hand, do you think the RPG space would be better if, say, White Wolf had managed to maintain their momentum from the 90s and became dominant instead?
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Apr 3, 2024 16:58
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LanceHunter posted:On the other hand, do you think the RPG space would be better if, say, White Wolf had managed to maintain their momentum from the 90s and became dominant instead?
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Apr 3, 2024 17:05
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Solitair posted:I only caught the tail end of the mockery of Strong Female Protagonist. Is there a good breakdown of it that I can read? We used to routinely poke fun of it in the webcomics thread in BSS although one goon would always get upset when we did, like they co-signed a loan with the comic. Not really any other webcomics, just when we were having a laugh at the main character's dopey boyfriend Klevin asking if she wanted to cuddle on the couch and have some cold pasta that was a line too far. Honestly there's probably not much to tell about SFP. It was well-trodden ground ("What if we take a good, hard look at how superheroes would actually function in the day-to-day") and not doing a very good job at it. The peak was probably the character with a powerful healing factor that decided she wanted to be vivisected for most of each day for organ transplants but for some reason they also couldn't use anesthetic so it added an even more delightful spin of body horror to the proceedings. And then something happens so she only needed to do that for an hour a day but still produced the same amount of organ transplants? Whatever. TL;DR: The writer thought he had big ideas but didn't and the artist would go on to do She-Ra.
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Apr 3, 2024 17:08
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re: tabletop game systems and stories, I have a lot of thoughts but it's kind of a mess to unpack. I think ultimately, playing a game with your friends where you're all on the same page and riffing and playing off each other well can happen irrespective of rules. They're you're friends and hopefully you know how to have fun with each other no matter what's in front of you. With TTRPGs, being familiar with stuff can mean you know how to pull off something clever and quickly without having to kill momentum by flipping through pages and hemming and hawing over rules. D&D games being so common that everyone's usually played a bit of it, and feels comfortable both playing (and honestly more importantly) GMing it is key there. It's not a system that provides guidance on the free form RPing and creative aspects though. Like Brennan's interview talks about how he "feels comfortable" bringing that to the table, and that's good for him, but it's a challenging skill to master. Something like his actual play shows or Critical Role work because they're professional actors and writers who have experience with improv and creative exercises that help them generate moment-to-moment entertainment. D&D doesn't give a lot of guidance on honing those skills. I'm not sure if there's any games that do? You'd probably have more success picking up a basic book on acting with improv exercises in it. Apocalypse World's explanation of the game as a conversation might come closest? But systems also do facilitate different stories, lay out different narrative and mechanical use expectations, and shift priorities of player and GM objectives in-character and ooc. If someone asserts otherwise, I have to assume they haven't tried playing anything that drastically different from a D&D system to begin with. Like, I've been untangling and running Pendragon 5.2e for a while now. It's a game about playing an Arthurian knight, starting in a fairly grounded semi-historical period, which does get more fantastical as Arthur rises to power, and darker as Camelot declines. Characters can deal a lot of damage, but there's no scaled class advancement, so HP is always pretty low especially when you're not wearing all your armor. It's also a generational game where your knight will pass on if you're playing it on an ongoing basis. Having kids, siblings, cousins, etc that inherit an estate and become the knew player's main character is inherent to the system. It's also got wide scale battle and skirmish rules because medieval warfare is an aspect of the game, and courtly romance and being an ideal honorable knight are also things with rules and mechanical implications. The five main stats are Size, Dexterity, Strength, Constitution, and Appearance. There's a sidebar that explains there's not an intelligence stat because (semi-jokingly) "it is a knight’s duty to act, not to think" and (more seriously) "player’s intelligence that dictates the character’s goals and actions, not an arbitrary number on a character sheet." And like... yeah. How many times have people actually played to their character's intelligence score in a game, unless it was an obnoxious Fallout-Low-Intellience type gimmick? When a GM presents a riddle or puzzle, how often do they expect the players OOC to figure it out rather than allowing/blocking a solution based on in-character Int scores? Some of this is probably ancient cruft because it's a game that's been around since the 80s. It's tried to "simplify" stuff by cutting out a lot of the more convoluted systems as optional things in side books. But it also feels like sometimes there's holes where you're implied to be using those systems, so I've had to dig around in other books to see if there's something I'm missing or if there's just some implicit "GM discretion" thing. It's all a lot of work to go through what amounts to homework in various textbooks in my free time to understand how to run the game. I'm having fun looking at all this stuff, but it really demonstrates one of the huge barriers of getting into "new" games that might "fit" the kind of story you want to tell in a TTRPG climate. Or at least the image of it, because there's certainly a ton more RPGs on the market that don't sprawl out across 10 million supplements and fan works. The major TTRPGs on the market will not give you the impression of that though. Everything involving TTRPGs is like if 95% of people only ever played Skyrim, and if they want to play something besides Skyrim, they pour dozens or hundreds of hours into learning how to mod Skyrim. Maybe they put in a more complicated romance or dialog system in. Or accurate ship building and sailing mechanics. Or add farm sim and horse breeding mechanics as well as a whole horse racing economy. And then when they want to try something "new" they decide to mod whole game to be Tetris. Is it still Skyrim at this point? I don't know. I guess Bethesda is already doing this with their real games and we see how well that is working out... 
Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 17:09
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:its very funny because throughout its entire existence dungeons and dragons has been owned by people who cant run a business D&D is probably one of the most culturally influential things of the last century and there's absolutely a world where someone competent is in charge and it's as big as any other cultural megaproperty like Star Wars or some poo poo
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Apr 3, 2024 17:11
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Nucleic Acids posted:Hasboro/WOTC fired almost everyone Larian worked with on BG3, this was entirely sensible on Larian’s part. I think its more that Dungeon and Dragons has been embedded in pop culture for such a long time that its hard for any newcomer to compete. Its sheer momentum that keeps it going. You ask a random person on the street what Dungeons and Dragons is, and they'll probably know about it. Its very doubtful that is the case for any other pen and paper RPG except a small chance that somebody knows about Warhammer.
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Apr 3, 2024 17:12
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Feels Villeneuve posted:D&D is probably one of the most culturally influential things of the last century and there's absolutely a world where someone competent is in charge and it's as big as any other cultural megaproperty like Star Wars or some poo poo i think that if at any point there had been competent people in charge, it would have eventually ended up in Disney's hands so its probably a good thing its actually a parade of morons that's been in charge all this time
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Apr 3, 2024 17:15
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