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shoeberto posted:I don't follow any of this, what are these ships and why does this indicate anything? Yeah I truly have no idea what all those acronyms are or what it actually means. If we can't chat about it I'll take a link.
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Apr 4, 2024 03:51
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shoeberto posted:I don't follow any of this, what are these ships and why does this indicate anything? The Biden administration is sending the US military to tow a prefab port on Gaza's coast so that aid can be sent in via boat, substantially reducing Israel's ability to interfere with the flow of aid. And while there's explicitly not going to be American boots on the ground actually in Gaza, those boots are gonna be sitting in boats right off the coast, watching and overseeing operations at this port. Moreover, the US intends to leave the port there and build it up into a permanent port, which is significant as Israel has never allowed Gaza to have one. Presumably the ships being talked about are the ones in that effort.
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Apr 4, 2024 03:58
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Tnega posted:A good rule of thumb is to read the articles you post. Literally all legislation or administrative decisions can potentially be reversed by losing an election or SCOTUS decisions, so by that logic nobody ever deserves any credit for anything. Also the railroad unions got sick leave less than six months after the strike was blocked in part due to continued lobbying and pressure from the administration quote:“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” [IBEW Railroad Department Director] Al Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers. https://ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 04:10
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah I truly have no idea what all those acronyms are or what it actually means. If we can't chat about it I'll take a link. It’s technically allowed as it is directly USCE related so I’ll explain. A month ago Biden announced that a temporary pier was going to be established in Gaza to facilitate food aid. A pier like this and the two multipurpose vessels has sufficient logistical capacity to feed everyone in Gaza adequately. This type of pier is called Joint Logistics Over the Shore, JLOTS. The time line on this pier deployment was announced to be sixty days. At the time I argued that this announcement meant the Israelis intended to starve every single person in Gaza. Which I think they’ve proven. Well we are about half way through the 60 days. The images I posted are the current positions and vessel tracks of a few of the vessels being deployed to make and then service the pier. These vessels are visible on AIS Automatic identification system which are used by VTS vessel traffic services. A transponder on the ships sends a signal to satellites that tells everybody who the ship is and exactly where it is. They can be turned off. They aren’t being turned off on the relevant vessels, everybody in the world can watch them. Everything above this is fact. Below is opinion and analysis Current vessel positions are inline with having the JLOTS built and running in another month. Isreal has recently killed several World Central Kitchen folks, my opinion is that they did so intentionally to signal their willingness to do so. The JLOTS pier will allow orders of magnitude more food in basically continuously than a single 200 metric ton barge. In about 30 days this all happens. The Palestinians start getting adequate food ( though some operational start up jank is likely) then or Israel does something to stop it by force. The poo poo hits the fan in about a month. Killhour- Yes. Destination ports are five letter codes Nagoya Japan for example is JPNGO. NUNYA is what cheeky mates enter when they don’t want to share vessel destination: NUNYA business.
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Apr 4, 2024 04:30
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Also the railroad unions got sick leave less than six months after the strike was blocked in part due to continued lobbying and pressure from the administration If I have money in my hand and am in the process of giving it to someone in exchange for a sandwich, and a third party who declares themselves 'pro sandwich' slaps that money out of my hand, I am allowed to be upset, even if the third party hands me the sandwich I would have purchased 10 minutes later. The point is that Biden sat a precedent for interfering with the tools that people have to affect positive change, not the change itself.
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Apr 4, 2024 04:34
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KillHour posted:Please tell me this is intentional and means "none (of) ya business" After the "Attackems" I'll believe any dumbass acronym now.
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Apr 4, 2024 04:43
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Tnega posted:If I have money in my hand and am in the process of giving it to someone in exchange for a sandwich, and a third party who declares themselves 'pro sandwich' slaps that money out of my hand, I am allowed to be upset, even if the third party hands me the sandwich I would have purchased 10 minutes later. What your terrible metaphor is missing is that a strike is a massively disruptive action with an uncertain outcome at the best of times. A railroad strike in the middle of the fragile post-covid economic recovery could have been massively damaging to the entire country, and Biden managing to avoid a strike and getting the workers what they wanted was an unqualified success.
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Apr 4, 2024 04:55
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Proud to be a card carrying member of the AAAAA American Association Against Acronym Abuse
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Apr 4, 2024 05:14
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Acebuckeye13 posted:What your terrible metaphor is missing is that a strike is a massively disruptive action with an uncertain outcome at the best of times. A railroad strike in the middle of the fragile post-covid economic recovery could have been massively damaging to the entire country, and Biden managing to avoid a strike and getting the workers what they wanted was an unqualified success. The rules require that I only engage with what you say, so I am giving you a direct question for you to state your position. It appears as though you oppose strikes when there is potential ramifications for the economy. What is the Per Capita GDP cost per unionized worker that it becomes acceptable for the president to interfere to prevent direct action? For me it is infinite, the president should never prevent direct action, even if it lowers the standard of living of the nation.
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Apr 4, 2024 05:14
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s technically allowed as it is directly USCE related so I’ll explain. So when Israel trips and falls and accidentally destroys the port, the US response is?
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Apr 4, 2024 05:15
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Tnega posted:The rules require that I only engage with what you say, so I am giving you a direct question for you to state your position. It appears as though you oppose strikes when there is potential ramifications for the economy. No, that is a clearly preposterous take. Taken literally it is equivalent to saying "the president should not interfere with unions if they launch nuclear strikes on all major population centers and end the world", and taken literally you do not in fact value the continuation of a strike at driving standard of living down to zero (everyone dead). You do not place infinite dollar value on direct action. Maximum ballpark is along the lines of "what if each unionized worker commits a murder or the equivalent", aka, 1m-12m depending who you ask. That's a very big number. It's not likely to come into play. In practice, figuring out a statistically justified dollar value for opposing strikes is an interesting economics / data science problem that I don't think anyone in this thread is actually going to bother coming up with a serious answer for. so i guess if you insist, my answer would in fact be the actuarial value of a life, estimated on the high end let's call it 12m, last i checked that's about where highly generous government estimates stopped e: oh, this whole conversation started because you don't think federal rulemaking does anything useful? Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree on that one too. The continued existence of the administrative state is a massive, massive good.
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Apr 4, 2024 05:43
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s technically allowed as it is directly USCE related so I’ll explain. "Everything above this is fact. Everything below this is analysis" I think you mean "everything below this" is wacky conspiracy theory.
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Apr 4, 2024 06:04
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Tnega posted:
How about deaths? For every point unemployment goes up, thousands of people die. A massive proportion of goods in the US are shipped via rail, affecting every part of the economy. The President has a responsibility to all 341 million Americans, and if a strike is going to have a significant impact on national security or the general welfare, then yeah the government is going to intervene.
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Apr 4, 2024 06:19
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s technically allowed as it is directly USCE related so I’ll explain. Gaming things out in my head as a woefully uninformed civvie layperson: Would the JLOTS be considered a flagged US installation? If so, wouldn't an "oopsie bomb" be considered an act of war? I feel like at that point its hard for anyone not keyed into diplomatic/military procedures be able to predict anything except "all bets are off." Call me naïve, but if anything, this feels like the US ramming aid through Israel's blockade and daring Netanyahu to make something of it. My understanding is that one major reason why the US continues sending arms to Israel despite costing Biden his support from Pro-Palestinian constituencies at home, he stands to still lose another large chunk of pro-Israeli support if the US cuts off Israeli aid outright. If there's a direct act of aggression toward the US military or its mission to provide aid to Gazans, that seems like an act far enough beyond the pale to cut off aid to Israel while still maintaining support from softer pro-Israeli American constituencies. But (and keep in mind I don't know poo poo about gently caress here) if the IDF doesn't trip and conveniently bomb the port or any of its associated logistical network, Gaza potentially starts receiving enough aid to counteract Israel's blockade. i imagine this would take away, or at least seriously hamper, the IDF's tool of pressuring Hamas by starving Palestinians. On top of this, having aid flow from a US military offshore installation potentially makes it harder for the IDF to maneuver if there are US-backed elements distributing aid. Thus, making it harder for Netanyahu to achieve whatever military aims he wants to achieve. I know the immediate take would likely be "this is fanfiction and the likely thing happening is that the US grumbles, rolls over, and sticks its thumb up its butt," but it would feel weird to think the US is spending millions of dollars of resources sending billions of dollars in hardware for a chance to look even weaker than before. Bar Ran Dun, how far off base am I in my thinking here?
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Apr 4, 2024 06:20
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We're at the point that the NYTimes and other national news orgs, various natsec officials, Bush era shitheads, Morning Joe guests and hosts, voters, senators, Republicans, Trump, protesters are all criticizing Biden for being a weak pathetic genocidal sack of poo poo and posters ITT are still working under the fairy tale that this is actually Biden's plan to win the election by holding onto the pro-Israel vote. Even the man's own wife is criticizing him lmao (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 4, 2024 06:30
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Goatse James Bond posted:No, that is a clearly preposterous take. Taken literally it is equivalent to saying "the president should not interfere with unions if they launch nuclear strikes on all major population centers and end the world", and taken literally you do not in fact value the continuation of a strike at driving standard of living down to zero (everyone dead). You do not place infinite dollar value on direct action. If you want me to engage with you seriously, please stop violating I A 4, in particular the part about non-standard definitions. Direct Action means 'the use of strikes, demonstrations, or other public forms of protest rather than negotiation to achieve one's demands.' If you are arguing in good faith that protest includes nuclear strikes on all major population centers please let everyone know. As far as the 'infinite' figure, I stand by it given that any scenario where GDP falls 'to zero' in which the government can stop the strikes, the government would have the capacity to nationalize the Railroads. again Goatse James Bond posted:1m-12m depending who you ask. That's a very big number. It's not likely to come into play. In practice, figuring out a statistically justified dollar value for opposing strikes is an interesting economics / data science problem that I don't think anyone in this thread is actually going to bother coming up with a serious answer for. Thank you $12 Million is at least 'a' number to work with. So, assuming that you read my post, we are going to say $12 million per union member is the figure. (A hard value of $12 Million just says the government can interfere with large union contracts.) Railroads estimated the cost/GDP hit at $2 Billion a day. 1992 rail strike was ended by congress in two days, so that isn't useful for a 'length' figure, so instead we go for a 'maximum' length based on the $12 Million/Worker figure. Napkin math puts it at 100,000 union workers, with a $12 million per worker standard the cost to require action totals 1.2 Trillion dollars. At $2 Billion a day, it would take 600 expected strike days for this specific labor action to be stopped under your framework. If you believed the strike would have lasted less than 600 days, then either stopping it was unjustified, or we need better numbers. (You are right this is an interesting economics/data science question.) Goatse James Bond posted:e: oh, this whole conversation started because you don't think federal rulemaking does anything useful? Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree on that one too. The continued existence of the administrative state is a massive, massive good. e: Acebuckeye13 posted:How about deaths? For every point unemployment goes up, thousands of people die. A massive proportion of goods in the US are shipped via rail, affecting every part of the economy. The President has a responsibility to all 341 million Americans, and if a strike is going to have a significant impact on national security or the general welfare, then yeah the government is going to intervene. Two things to unpack there, the first is that if the administration cares about deaths by unemployment, they would not intentionally cause recessions through interest rate changes. The second is that if they are worried about national security/general welfare implications, they could just nationalize the railroads. Tnega fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 06:32
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Charliegrs posted:I think you mean "everything below this" is wacky conspiracy theory. Guess we will see in a month or so.
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Apr 4, 2024 06:47
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Acebuckeye13 posted:How about deaths? For every point unemployment goes up, thousands of people die. A massive proportion of goods in the US are shipped via rail, affecting every part of the economy. The President has a responsibility to all 341 million Americans, and if a strike is going to have a significant impact on national security or the general welfare, then yeah the government is going to intervene. If the workers are this valuable, that them walking off the job for even a brief period of time will kill thousands of Americans perhaps we should be giving them more than 0 sick days per year (months after crushing the strike increased to four (4) days per year for some employees.) The men responsible for nearly killing these thousands of Americans faced what punishment? They’re still collecting 8 figure salaries, still squeezing their employees for as much as they can which surely won’t cause another strike years down the line.
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Apr 4, 2024 07:00
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Charliegrs posted:"Everything above this is fact. Everything below this is analysis" Huh? What do you think is going to happen? Is the pier going to be built or not? What's Israel going to do if it is?
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Apr 4, 2024 07:06
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uPen posted:If the workers are this valuable, that them walking off the job for even a brief period of time will kill thousands of Americans perhaps we should be giving them more than 0 sick days per year (months after crushing the strike increased to four (4) days per year for some employees.) I mean, I agree, and so does the Biden administration, which is why they now have sick days.
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Apr 4, 2024 07:15
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean, I agree, and so does the Biden administration, which is why they now have sick days. Yeah this is the weird part to me. Biden admin intervened, but they forced a compromise that is widely regarded as a significant win for unions, both directly and in terms of undercutting the rail corps politically. Why is this spun as 'Biden crushes labor?'.
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Apr 4, 2024 09:37
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koolkal posted:We're at the point that the NYTimes and other national news orgs, various natsec officials, Bush era shitheads, Morning Joe guests and hosts, voters, senators, Republicans, Trump, protesters are all criticizing Biden for being a weak pathetic genocidal sack of poo poo and posters ITT are still working under the fairy tale that this is actually Biden's plan to win the election by holding onto the pro-Israel vote. I've got a feeling that Biden isn't all that concerned about convincing the Republicans to vote for him in the election, to be honest, much less Trump in particular.
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Apr 4, 2024 09:59
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Yeah this is the weird part to me. Biden admin intervened, but they forced a compromise that is widely regarded as a significant win for unions, both directly and in terms of undercutting the rail corps politically. Why is this spun as 'Biden crushes labor?'. Because it was worse than what the unions were asking for and presumably what they could have got if Biden had been more supportive of them.
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Apr 4, 2024 10:14
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Yeah this is the weird part to me. Biden admin intervened, but they forced a compromise that is widely regarded as a significant win for unions, both directly and in terms of undercutting the rail corps politically. Why is this spun as 'Biden crushes labor?'. For me it is because I am of the position that the right to strike is a fundamental human right. The 'hotness' of this take is approximately -40 degrees, given that it is on the OHCHR site. I get that some of you are utilitarians, but can we not assign people a dollar value that if they do not meet for the economy by age thirty their organs are forfeit? The previous sentence is not directed at anyone in particular, it was simply meant as a more humorous version of the standard 'utility monster' critique. Tnega fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 10:32
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Tnega posted:For me it is because I am of the position that the right to strike is a fundamental human right. The 'hotness' of this take is approximately -40 degrees, given that it is on the OHCHR site. I get that some of you are utilitarians, but can we not assign people a dollar value that if they do not meet for the economy by age thirty their organs are forfeit? The previous sentence is not directed at anyone in particular, it was simply meant as a more humorous version of the standard 'utility monster' critique. Striking may be a fundamental right but strikes aren't a goal to be achieved. Striking sucks because it results in lost wages and they only happen when everything else in the negotiation process failed. People are not eager to strike. That's why it's a last resort. Biden was able to get the rail workers what they wanted without that hardship and lost wages. That's why they wrote a press release thanking him for his effort. https://ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid volts5000 fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 12:07
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volts5000 posted:Biden was able to get the rail workers what they wanted without that hardship and lost wages. That's why they wrote a letter thanking him for his effort. Interesting, were the IBEW one of the unions that rejected the agreement, or would they have have reason to praise Joe Biden simply for imposing it on the holdouts?
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Apr 4, 2024 12:17
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Charliegrs posted:
Israel is pretty clearly using hunger and starvation as a weapon against the civilian population. They’ve used resource deprivation since I’ve been old enough to pay attention to the conflict. The United States sending in the means to bypass this against a nation that has repeatedly and intentionally launched strikes against neutral or even allied observers. Where in the conspiracy theory here? Either Israel lets the US feed the people it’s trying to starve or it tries to stop the US from doing so. Alternate possibility is the pier is built and Biden announces it has brought bibi to the negotiating table or something like that and nothing ends up changing.
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Apr 4, 2024 12:57
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uPen posted:If the workers are this valuable, that them walking off the job for even a brief period of time will kill thousands of Americans perhaps we should be giving them more than 0 sick days per year (months after crushing the strike increased to four (4) days per year for some employees.) Right yeah I got sidetracked by data brain. The correct answer is that if we somehow reach the 12m per worker figure, which i will continue to maintain is reasonable and nearly impossible to reach it's because of corporate malfeasance (or really really awful government behavior in the case of a public sector union) and it's the corporation that should meet the heavy hand of direct government intervention. The 12m ish figure isn't just for (optimistic) fines and such, it crops up a lot in figuring out how much money the government should spend to save a life. The answer is clearly not infinity dollars unless we're talking about the TSA.  It also tries to include all the various knock-on effects of someone dying in a car crash / lathe accident / CSB safety video. this is also half of why why the value of the life of a disabled or old person is still high from a policy perspective [insert digression about medical care policy here]
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Apr 4, 2024 13:23
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RBA Starblade posted:I've got a feeling that Biden isn't all that concerned about convincing the Republicans to vote for him in the election, to be honest, much less Trump in particular. What is that feeling based on? It seems to me that most of the outreach from this administration is to the right, not the left. If he isn't trying to pull Republicans it isn't reflected in his border or foreign policy.
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Apr 4, 2024 13:56
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RBA Starblade posted:I've got a feeling that Biden isn't all that concerned about convincing the Republicans to vote for him in the election, to be honest, much less Trump in particular. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-campaign-launch-ad-targeting-former-nikki-haley-voters-rcna145641 Then someone should probably tell his campaign. And him: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4512673-biden-campaign-haley-supporters/ koolkal fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 14:37
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koolkal posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-campaign-launch-ad-targeting-former-nikki-haley-voters-rcna145641 I guess I was wrong! I recall leftists saying in the past that Democrats need to reach out to the right's voters more, though I can't say I'm pleased someone took their advice.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:47
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Yeah this is the weird part to me. Biden admin intervened, but they forced a compromise that is widely regarded as a significant win for unions, both directly and in terms of undercutting the rail corps politically. Why is this spun as 'Biden crushes labor?'. Because he literally did? They have a right to strike and it was taken away by the government because their industry is apparently too valuable to allow a strike. It’s OK for the workers to have their rights taken from them with no compensation or recourse while the companies and executives lose nothing.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:55
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Considering how Haley got trounced in her home state's primary, I'm surprised that they considered this a large enough group to bother targeting. In addition, while there's "moderate" Republicans who are critical of Trump and might want someone else, nearly all of them outside the Never Trump op-ed demographic will still go for Trump over Biden in the end.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:00
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uPen posted:Because he literally did? They have a right to strike and it was taken away by the government because their industry is apparently too valuable to allow a strike. I'm confused by this take. Shouldn't we, as the working class, be happy a union managed to get vocal government support without them having to suffer lost wages/etc that a strike would entail? Nothing is stopping them from striking should they want to negotiate further, but no one missed a paycheck yet and they got what they needed. Hell, if threatening a strike and that leading to Biden stepping in on their behalf works, shouldn't that empower the union further?
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Apr 4, 2024 15:06
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On the one hand, it's good that the workers got (close) to what they wanted. On the other hand, it's bad that they had a contract imposed upon them by Congress and the President and had to hope that the administration later got them something extra (which they did) instead of being able to take direct action and get it themselves.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:12
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RBA Starblade posted:I guess I was wrong! I recall leftists saying in the past that Democrats need to reach out to the right's voters more, though I can't say I'm pleased someone took their advice. This is what the Democrats have been doing for 30+ years at this point. But yeah, it's actually because they're listening to leftists lmao
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Apr 4, 2024 15:27
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Retro42 posted:I'm confused by this take. Shouldn't we, as the working class, be happy a union managed to get vocal government support without them having to suffer lost wages/etc that a strike would entail? Nothing is stopping them from striking should they want to negotiate further, but no one missed a paycheck yet and they got what they needed. Hell, if threatening a strike and that leading to Biden stepping in on their behalf works, shouldn't that empower the union further? A law was passed that said that they couldn’t strike. He did take away their right to strike (legally anyway, and a wildcat strike carries a ton of risk.)
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Apr 4, 2024 15:27
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RBA Starblade posted:I guess I was wrong! I recall leftists saying in the past that Democrats need to reach out to the right's voters more, though I can't say I'm pleased someone took their advice. Yeah when conservative democrats perform outreach to the fascist Right, it's really the fault of leftists if you think about it.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:47
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Retro42 posted:I'm confused by this take. Shouldn't we, as the working class, be happy a union managed to get vocal government support without them having to suffer lost wages/etc that a strike would entail? Nothing is stopping them from striking should they want to negotiate further, but no one missed a paycheck yet and they got what they needed. Hell, if threatening a strike and that leading to Biden stepping in on their behalf works, shouldn't that empower the union further? If we’re taking away rights from the workers to prevent a strike why not take rights away from the executives that caused the strike to accomplish the same goal? The employees were forced to not strike, the railroad wasn’t forced to do anything.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:48
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uPen posted:If we’re taking away rights from the workers to prevent a strike why not take rights away from the executives that caused the strike to accomplish the same goal? The employees were forced to not strike, the railroad wasn’t forced to do anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute
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Apr 4, 2024 16:08
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