Sunk Dunk posted:

The majority of characters in these games are predators so singling out teddy there doesn’t make a lot of sense to me

Majorian posted:

I think some of Teddie's behavior is predatory, but mostly in the way that dumbass highschool boys' behavior usually is. That doesn't make it good or something that shouldn't be corrected, but it's true to life, for better or for worse.

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

Actual children have a much better understanding of boundaries than he does.

Majorian posted:

I don't know how many children you've met, but, uh...no they don't. Not unless you explain it to them. The boundaries really aren't effectively explained to Teddie at any point in the game. IIRC the most pushback he gets from the female characters in the game is the sort of "Ewww, as if!" eye-rolling that you see in high school animes, teen comedies, JRPGs, etc. No one ever says to him, "You're making me uncomfortable" or "You can't act that way towards women; you're coming off as a creep."

Arist posted:

You can disagree with how funny it is but nah

"Sometimes" no, basically always, that is the core joke

ImpAtom posted:

The thing is that, no, he isn't. Like Teddie says those things but there's nothing actually behind them. He is painted as too 'innocent' to really get what he's asking for and comes across as trying to mimic humanity more than he is actually being human. (Which is, again, intentional.) Teddie is annoying as poo poo and I don't think the joke is funny, but the entire premise of the guy is that he really doesn't understand what it means to be human and he's doing his best to mimic what he thinks humanity is. He has other dialogue which makes it pretty clear he isn't really even sure what sex is.

Like the basic premise of the character is that he's an empty hollow mascot suit trying to appeal to humans. He's annoying as poo poo and 'acts like a pervert unknowingly' isn't particularly any more funny than 'acts like a pervert knowingly' but there's no actual indication at any point that Teddie is anything but a big dumb child.

Majorian posted:

I don't know how many children you've met, but, uh...no they don't. Not unless you explain it to them. The boundaries really aren't effectively explained to Teddie at any point in the game. IIRC the most pushback he gets from the female characters in the game is the sort of "Ewww, as if!" eye-rolling that you see in high school animes, teen comedies, JRPGs, etc. No one ever says to him, "You're making me uncomfortable" or "You can't act that way towards women; you're coming off as a creep."

Zokari posted:

let's all make sure the cartoon bear is appropriately shamed for his toxic behavior

ImpAtom posted:

Again, Teddie is portrayed as functionally a child. Like not in a 'this is subtext' way, he acts like and is treated as a child and has a child's view of the world. He does inappropriate things because he was functionally born five seconds before the game began. Portraying that as 'a predator' implies a level of maturity and capability that isn't really present in the character. He's not even on the level of Morgana who is at least portrayed as a functional human being outside of being a cat. The jokes aren't funny but Teddie is literally (as in this is something the game points out) basically on the same mental level as Nanako.

The jokes aren't funny because the writers are putting a childlike character in those positions so they can write cheap jokes, but the character themself is just a dumbass child-bear.

DemoneeHo posted:

And this is why Koromaru remains the best mascot.

He's just a good dog who doesn't talk.

Ytlaya posted:

The kind of unfortunate thing related to this is that everyone's reaction to Yousuke's worst transgressions is basically the same as their reaction to Teddie. I've seen people say "the rest of the party realizes Yousuke is being an rear end in a top hat to Kanji," but that's not actually true. They never actually disagree with Yousuke - they just think Yousuke is being immature for bringing that stuff up.

My general impression is that they view stuff like "Kanji being interested in Naoto" (before Naoto revealing she's a girl), or anything implying Kanji might be gay*, as "a way Kanji is weird, but that they're willing to overlook because he's their friend." So they're not really accepting of those things so much as they tolerate them and still view him as a friend "despite him being weird."

* I know he's not, but the story gives the impression that the rest of the party still thinks he might be (or that he's just "weird" for acting like he is)

neonchameleon posted:

The problem is that for all the text of the game intends to be as you say. Teddie doesn't behave the way an actual innocent trying to learn human behaviour works does; an actual innocent would learn after about the fifth time that Yukiko told him to stop doing that that he should stop doing that.

Majorian posted:

Yeah, and in all honesty, those clumsy interactions and not-fully-fleshed-out views of the world feels very true-to-life for high school kids in that era. Hell, I graduated from HS six years before P4 came out, and the way the characters interact feels familiar to my own experience. I know it sounds like a cop-out (and to some degree, it is), but 2008 really was a different time, especially in media. What was considered at the time to be an acceptable way for men and boys to talk about women and girls is not the same as it is now. I still like movies like "Superbad," (also from 2008) but holy hell, is that movie from a completely different era!

Majorian posted:

Not trying to be snarky here; genuinely asking, if someone has a better memory than I do: are there five times that Yukiko tells him to stop doing that? I'm replaying the game right now, and it feels like those responses from her are pretty rare. It's far more often the non-specific "Can we stop talking about scoring?" type of response, as NikkolasKing pointed out. And even those responses from her don't seem that common.

Alder posted:

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I mean, Yosuke is absolutely also a predator, if you think he's being left out.

Alder posted:

hatty posted:

Its because the movies are good

AlternateNu posted:

Speaking of garbage characters that should be cancelled. Miyazaki is a piece of poo poo, and I am exceedingly disappointed in how much people faun over his movies.

tbp posted:

(i'm largely skipping by posts just to make sure i don't catch accidental spoilers, apologies if i miss anything i should respond to)

i gotta say i'm instantly loving the dynamic between the characters in p4g. chie, yosuke and yukiko seem like they existed before i arrived and this little gang feels like... well a group of kids trying to solve a mystery. it's really cute (and honestly i think chie just owns completely)

Majorian posted:

I know it sounds like a cop-out (and to some degree, it is), but 2008 really was a different time, especially in media. What was considered at the time to be an acceptable way for men and boys to talk about women and girls is not the same as it is now.

NikkolasKing posted:

Pretty much. The joke is specifically that he keeps talking about 'scoring" and Yukiko is always vaguely offended by it, insisting "can we PLEASE stop talking about scoring." Because of course it all started with Shadow Yukiko talking about "scoring a hot stud."

But at no point does anybody tell Teddie what "scoring" means in this context, or why it makes Yukiko uncomfortable.

frytechnician posted:

It seems there is an acceleration in "what's acceptable" in general each year, most of which makes sense. Growing up decades ago, I feel like there was always a perving scene in virtually every teen comedy movie, where guys would find a peep-hole into the girls locker room or whatever - poo poo like that - which would NO loving WAY get made today. And that isn't a complaint from me, it's just reflective of the type of comedy for the time. It's mostly in hindsight we say, "Hang on a second, that was actually pretty hosed up!" a few years later.

I watched Goldfinger (the Bond film, not the band) with my wife recently and there's this bit in the movie, which has aged.... well, you'll see - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovXysYZTVzs