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Liquid Communism posted:Capitalism requires risk for reward, and part of that risk is that your employees won't put up with the conditions you want to give them and may strike. If an industry is life or death such that the government needs to interfere in collective bargaining to prevent massive loss of life, it should be a nationalized industry running on GS standardized payscales and terms of work. I thought we were in favor of a fair deal for workers, and you're trying to inflict the GS payscale on them??? (also federal workers can't strike either lol  )
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Apr 5, 2024 03:42
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It's look like the dam broke. https://x.com/CNN/status/1775952089450999867?s=20 A lot of places are reporting this as Biden calling for an immediate ceasefire, I'm not sure, but it got something done. https://x.com/CNN/status/1776028345932607763?s=20 In addition, people who signed off on giving billions of dollars in lethal aid to Israel are now calling for punitive measures. https://x.com/TVietor08/status/1775889158281502835?s=20 It's not lost on anyone that it took 7 aid workers getting killed, most of them Americans or British, vs. the 30,000+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.
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Apr 5, 2024 03:44
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While I'm sure them being mostly white
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Apr 5, 2024 03:48
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haveblue posted:Yeah I think the answer here is option F, which no one likes to think about : AIPAC really is that powerful and the past few months have not been enough to stop them from swinging elections When AIPAC powers starts getting discussed, I think its really easy to devolve into typical tinfoil hat grand Zionist conspiracy vibes, and yeah
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Apr 5, 2024 04:00
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Tnega posted:Well, they kinda didn't, they eventually got 5 sick days, when they were looking for 15. They did ultimately agree to a contract, so that is evidence they got what they were willing to settle for, which is probably less than they could have gotten, were the administration willing to let them use all their bargaining tools legally. "Probably less" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this statement for something with zero evidence to back it up. There is no guarantee whatsoever that they would have gotten more with a strike than what they ended up getting. Strikes are not a "push to win" button for unions, which is exactly why they are used as a last resort. You need to step back from the romanticism of striking and realize that it's a situation where the strikers are sacrificing their paychecks for what will end up being halfway between the deal they're asking for and the deal they walked away from. A strike is intended, first and foremost, as a threat. Avoiding it is a goal of the union when it's authorized, every bit as much as it is a goal of management. Xombie fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 04:01
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shoeberto posted:Westchester is bougie as hell and mad gentrified. I moved to Orange in 2021 and never looked back. I had no idea Latimer was running for congress but he's 100% the only local politician that I know by name, and he always seemed fairly well-liked. I could absolutely see him getting by on recognition alone - he was great at getting in front of cameras for local news reports. Yeah that's what I'm trying to get at. The full blown socialist who does disrespectful of democratic process stuff like the fire alarm stunt is going to be very popular in the Bronx but generate negative intra-party partisanship in the bougie parts of the district. I don't really know Latimer. There's a lot of focus on the Israel, which will matter to some degree in 2024 in a way that it didn't in 2020 and could decide the election on the margin, but for the election more broadly it's more of a side show relative to the core of the district being split between socioeconomic extremes and Bowman being a bad fit for large parts of the district.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:03
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Young Freud posted:It's look like the dam broke. I'd be cautious of being too optimistic here, because the administration has been calling for an immediate ceasefire for more than a month. It was at the end of February when Biden was saying they were days away from a ceasefire, and in the weeks since, the Biden administration has adopted the phrase "immediate ceasefire" - with no mention of a permanent ceasefire, and usually blaming Hamas for the failure to reach a ceasefire so far. Here's an example from just over a month ago: https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1764409522553082344 The administration has been pressuring Netanyahu for a ceasefire, but it's unlikely to make much of an impact until Biden starts getting more forceful about it. That said, it's only a matter of time until some kind of ceasefire is reached. This is way too large a mobilization for Israel to sustain long-term without a really good reason. A good chunk of the country's working-age population is either mobilized or evacuated, and that's not something that's going to be able to drag on for years solely for the sake of Netanyahu's political dick-waving.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:11
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Main Paineframe posted:
That seems like the same sort of argument as "putin can't keep up the war in Ukraine forever, think of the cost". The minute the war ends Netanyahu is out of office and possibly jailed, and he controls when it ends, so why will it ever end while he can continue it?
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Apr 5, 2024 04:21
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I'm also hesitant about saying the Erez crossing opening up matters, because there are 'open' crossings right now. Israel, either through laughing civilians on lawn chairs in the way of the trucks or by not approving the trucks passing through, just doesn't let much of anything pass through it.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:33
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Xombie posted:"Probably less" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this statement for something with zero evidence to back it up. I do not have a crystal ball that allows me to peer into a universe where Biden acknowledged the basic human right to strike. (Biden could have vetoed H.J.Res.100, for instance) (At least one other poster has affirmed striking as a basic human right, no one seems to have taken the opposing position as of yet.) Xombie posted:A strike is intended, first and foremost, as a threat. And what does making such threats illegal do for the efficacy of said threat? Nobody forced Biden's hand, he could have done nothing and still had a better human rights position on this topic. He chose to reject the human right to strike, full stop.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:52
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That seems like the same sort of argument as "putin can't keep up the war in Ukraine forever, think of the cost". The minute the war ends Netanyahu is out of office and possibly jailed, and he controls when it ends, so why will it ever end while he can continue it? Whether the war continues or not isn't particularly relevant to Netanyahu's immediate political survival. Nobody in his coalition seems likely to betray him the moment the war ends (the Haredi parties might very well betray him for unrelated reasons, but they won't wait for the war to end before doing that). And as long as his coalition holds together, early elections can't be held without his approval. So the war ending is unlikely to result in his immediate ouster. Netanyahu's interest in prolonging the war is something slightly different. His only hope for saving his career is to achieve some great victory, one that wins him enough goodwill from the Israeli people to wipe away the black mark of Oct 7th. If he can end this war saying he's smashed Hamas once and for all and utterly crushed any Palestinian militancy in Gaza, then he might just be able to save himself. That's why he keeps escalating: he desperately needs the IDF to make some real accomplishment in this war, and it needs to happen quick, because the Israeli population aren't going to wait forever for the inevitable political reckoning over Oct 7th. If Bibi is too obviously just dragging the war out, people aren't gonna keep putting the political stuff on hold forever. And while the people can't force new elections, unless they manage to make Netanyahu so unpopular that his coalition members flips against him, there's already increasing numbers of Israelis taking to the streets and protesting the Israeli government's handling of affairs, and they're starting to openly take aim at Netanyahu. But it's not just public opinion Netanyahu has to worry about, either. Israeli businesses want their workers back, and if the people with money get too annoyed at how things are going, there's no telling how much influence they might have in the coalition. If the big money turns against Netanyahu, things could change very quickly. Tnega posted:I do not have a crystal ball that allows me to peer into a universe where Biden acknowledged the basic human right to strike. (Biden could have vetoed H.J.Res.100, for instance) The threat of a strike motivated the Biden administration to intervene and pressure the companies into concessions.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:53
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Goatse James Bond posted:While I'm sure them being mostly white for a lot of people coming into active voter demos who aren't already polarized one way or another, the deaths of the food aid group made the rounds and looked awful and got people angry
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Apr 5, 2024 04:55
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Main Paineframe posted:The threat of a strike motivated the Biden administration to intervene and pressure the companies into concessions. There are a lot of people making that claim, each with their own idea of what it means, so I ask you specifically, when are you talking about. There are a number of different times you could be referring to, so please, be specific of when, as the when determines what concessions we are talking about.
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Apr 5, 2024 05:23
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:When AIPAC powers starts getting discussed, I think its really easy to devolve into typical tinfoil hat grand Zionist conspiracy vibes, and yeah I mean even getting outside of conspiracy theory nonsense, there is a reality in that the Jewish vote is substantially larger then the Muslim vote. It's more important on a state by state basis ( Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Georgia last I checked have huge Dem Jewish voting populations, large enough to sway the states ), and it's a consistent vote. Jewish people are a bloc that gets out and votes. Even Michigan, the state that's getting the most talk has a Jewish voting population that's larger then the entire Muslim bloc 150k vs 100k. The states with the largest Muslim populations are safe Dem strongholds like Cali and New York. This isn't even getting into the matter of voting habits longterm. As mentioned Jewish people have a history of consistency when it comes to voting. However historically it's a block that does view Israel, and Israel support as major issues and will sit out if they don't feel it's being addressed. Muslims don't have that same level of consistency. The Muslim vote jumps and drops wildly election to election. It's actually been skewing further and further to the right since Bush era. It's also by far got the lowest voting rate of religious groups at .3-.4 last I checked ( Jews average about .8, the highest of the religions ). Like just raw quick comparisons. PA 500K vs 50K Georgia 200k vs 20k Arizona 150k vs 20k Michigan 150k vs 110k Dems can full stop ignore the Muslim vote and maybe lose Michigan. If AIPAC feels snubbed enough, or Jewish voters feel they aren't welcome the Dems likely lose hard across the board. They've got a ton of power.
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Apr 5, 2024 06:11
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Tnega posted:I do not have a crystal ball And yet you keep making arguments affirming that you do. quote:And what does making such threats illegal do for the efficacy of said threat? Nobody forced Biden's hand, he could have done nothing and still had a better human rights position on this topic. He chose to reject the human right to strike, full stop. You're proving my point for me. Your argument is entirely concerned with the romanticism of striking, with how righteous it is, or how badly it can hurt management. You haven't made a single concrete argument that it would have helped the rail workers more than government intervention. You refuse to acknowledge any realities or negative effects of striking on the workers themselves, or in this case, the country as a whole. Not because you have a counter to it, but because it's inconvenient to your point. Your argument is equivalent to someone saying their second amendment rights were violated by the perp being arrested before you could shoot them. Is the point your right to kill someone, or your right to not be killed? You have completely glossed over what the purpose of a strike actually is. Tnega posted:There are a lot of people making that claim, each with their own idea of what it means, so I ask you specifically, when are you talking about. There are a number of different times you could be referring to, so please, be specific of when, as the when determines what concessions we are talking about. Why exactly does everyone else have the obligation to specifics while you get to vaguely wave at alternate realities when claiming what the union could have gotten in the event of a strike? Xombie fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 12:48
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Young Freud posted:It's look like the dam broke. It sucks that it took the deaths of people the West considers Actual Human Beings for any of this to happen. And unless the weapons shipments and funding actually stop this will ultimately amount to nothing but hot air. Also, that loving tweet by the Pod John Who Isn’t Named John might as well have dismissed “leftie radicals” as Premature Anti Zionists. Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 12:52
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Xombie posted:Why exactly does everyone else have the obligation to specifics while you get to vaguely wave at alternate realities when claiming what the union could have gotten in the event of a strike? This whole silly discussion makes me think of the union members I know who treat every negotiation as a failure if it doesn’t result in managements’ heads on spikes and full employee ownership of the company. Unions don’t have infinite leverage, striking bears costs, and negotiating means compromise.
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Apr 5, 2024 13:14
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Xombie posted:Why exactly does everyone else have the obligation to specifics while you get to vaguely wave at alternate realities when claiming what the union could have gotten in the event of a strike? e. I really need to keep people separated. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Tnega fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 13:51
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Tnega posted:Under Rule II B 1, we both have an obligation to make posts that are fresh or falsifiable. I asked you specifically to elaborate on your point to make it falsifiable, you have chosen not to do so. If you believe I have not met the standards required by the Debate and Discussion forum, the moderation team is available to bring your grievances to. No, you actually never asked me to do that. I am calling you out for not doing it, though. Xombie fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 14:10
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Great jobs numbers today https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1776225858467893624 Of course, the public knows better. https://twitter.com/ChrisRugaber/status/1775899813059362960 They're doing fine, everyone they know is doing fine, everything they can see with their eyes tells them the economy is in good shape but alas the bad economy is standing just out of frame, solemnly shaking its head.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:18
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zoux posted:... It reminds me of that study that found with the best predictor of whether someone thinks crime is on the rise is how much news they watch.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:25
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I wonder how much of this is people interpreting the "US Economy" as the "US Economic System". While the economy might be doing fine by whatever metrics Capital uses to assess it, the system is certainly not fine.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:40
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enahs posted:I wonder how much of this is people interpreting the "US Economy" as the "US Economic System". While the economy might be doing fine by whatever metrics Capital uses to assess it, the system is certainly not fine. The system being miserable isn't a new situation at all though and there's not suddenly a huge swath of the country waking up and reading socialist theory and examining the pitfalls of american capitalism. Why would people not think this way at any point until the last couple of years?
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Apr 5, 2024 14:50
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Kagrenak posted:The system being miserable isn't a new situation at all though and there's not suddenly a huge swath of the country waking up and reading socialist theory and examining the pitfalls of american capitalism. Why would people not think this way at any point until the last couple of years? I think people are becoming more aware of the systemic issues due to raising food, housing, etc prices without commensurate increases in pay. I'm not implying that huge swaths of the country are reading socialist theory, more that they are starting to believe their lying eyes after decades of being convinced not to.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:53
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enahs posted:I wonder how much of this is people interpreting the "US Economy" as the "US Economic System". While the economy might be doing fine by whatever metrics Capital uses to assess it, the system is certainly not fine. If that were the case, then swing state voters probably wouldn't be telling pollsters that they think Trump will be way better for the economy than Biden has been. People keep floating that theory every time this disconnect comes up, but the actual poll data doesn't really back it up.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:54
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Xombie posted:No, you actually never asked me to do that. I am calling you out for not doing it, though. Thank you for the clarification, I got you mixed up with another poster, a terrible mistake on my part. The issue I am having from my perspective, is that my core belief/point, that the legal privilege of striking is a fundamental human right, and that posters find that inconvenient to argue directly against, so we end up arguing in circles over whether 'its not so bad' that said human right was violated. The closest I have come to 'romanticizing' the act of striking rather than the right from what I said in reviewing my posts was: Tnega posted:What is the Per Capita GDP cost per unionized worker that it becomes acceptable for the president to interfere to prevent direct action? Which is a conclusion drawn from the concept that the right to strike (legal privilege is used above and below above to prevent a tautology, legal privilege is simply the mechanism rights are typically enforced) is a fundamental right, to be protected at all costs. (If one had the right not to quarter soldiers in civilian homes in peacetime as a fundamental right, how much would they say the government should spend/sacrifice to ensure that right is upheld? To me, again fundamental means infinite, $12M has also come out as a figure, and so that is also worth discussing.) If the idea that the legal privilege to strike is a fundamental human right is not 'fresh', then I am in the wrong. I can certainly see how it is hard to falsify, given that what is and is not a right tends to be drawn from first principles. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 5, 2024 14:56
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Kagrenak posted:The system being miserable isn't a new situation at all though and there's not suddenly a huge swath of the country waking up and reading socialist theory and examining the pitfalls of american capitalism. Why would people not think this way at any point until the last couple of years? I can think of at least one significant pandemic-shaped event in the last few years that might have lead to people examining things around them and thinking, "Huh, ya know this maybe isn't as good as I thought it was?" For me it's always been the monstrous barbarity that is our healthcare system. "The economy" can be doing as well as it ever has, and I may be in a better position that I have ever been, but I'm not a billionaire so I will always and forever be one wrong step, car drive, or cancer diagnosis away from being completely destitute and homeless through no action of my own. No loving way will I say that's a "good" situation.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:56
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bird food bathtub posted:I can think of at least one significant pandemic-shaped event in the last few years that might have lead to people examining things around them and thinking, "Huh, ya know this maybe isn't as good as I thought it was?" The pandemic started four years ago, not two. If someone is now seeing it like you're saying, today they would evaluate the past economy through their new post-pandemic lens. This isn't a paired longitudinal survey where the same person is being asked twice and their sentiment is worse now. The survey was simply asking someone today to say whether the economy is better now or two years ago, not whether they had a rosier view of the precarious nature of late capitalism two years ago. enahs posted:I think people are becoming more aware of the systemic issues due to raising food, housing, etc prices without commensurate increases in pay. I'm not implying that huge swaths of the country are reading socialist theory, more that they are starting to believe their lying eyes after decades of being convinced not to. My above point applies here too. This isn't longitudinal data, they're asking someone now about economic conditions now vs two years ago. If they've come to the view that the system is fundamentally broken then they would evaluate past conditions through that lens. Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 15:02
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enahs posted:I think people are becoming more aware of the systemic issues due to raising food, housing, etc prices without commensurate increases in pay. I'm not implying that huge swaths of the country are reading socialist theory, more that they are starting to believe their lying eyes after decades of being convinced not to. If you don’t want people to expect more from the system, then it was a major gently caress up to offer any kind of aid during Covid. People saw the government actually helping in a material way they could see in dollars. I think dissatisfaction with the economy needs to be considered with that in mind—within recent memory there is the experience of living within a state that cares. Going back to the status quo is noticeable to people, even if they don’t consciously call it out, it was a shocking, perspective-changing experience for a lot of people I think.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:04
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That WSJ swing state poll that showed a huge disconnect between how voters see their own state's economy and how they see the national economy? That same poll also had this: That doesn't exactly scream "the voters realized that capitalism is hosed and now they're crying out for socialism". Moreover, the poll respondents also felt that Trump was more physically and mentally fit to be president, that Trump would be better at handling both of the current major conflicts US foreign policy is concerned with, and that Trump and Biden were about equally likely to protect democracy. They also said that their personal financial situations and their investments are all doing fine, but that crime, border security, and the economy are all getting way worse under Biden. Those answers don't exactly suggest that the US population is actually just way too left for the pollsters to even comprehend. Instead, they suggest that the US population leans conservative on social issues, and that their dislike of Biden's left-leaning social policy is enough to overcome the fact that their own personal financial situations are doing fine under Biden.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:16
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Tnega posted:Thank you for the clarification, I got you mixed up with another poster, a terrible mistake on my part. You already said this and I already responded to you, and you haven't responded to a single thing that I said in the last post. You glossed it all over to mistake me for someone else. It doesn't work that way. We aren't "going in circles", you're just ignoring my response. quote:The closest I have come to 'romanticizing' the act of striking rather than the right from what I said in reviewing my posts was: Absolutely none of the above addresses anything that I said. It's not going in circles when you just refuse to address any of the holes in your argument. You seem to desperately want to goad someone into saying "striking is not a human right" so that you can argue against that point, since you believe you have an argument made up for it. The problem is: no one has made that argument. So perhaps maybe respond to what I did say. You keep trying to chant "striking is a human right" so that you can back up your idea that the mere avoidance of a strike is a human rights violation. But even a union is trying to avoid a strike. A strike is not the ends, it is the means to the end. But you absolutely ignore anyone telling you that the purpose of a strike is a last-ditch negotiating tactic to get concessions from management. It's just inconvenient to your point that the congressional resolution achieved exactly that as an arbitrator. Xombie fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 15:17
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Main Paineframe posted:That WSJ swing state poll that showed a huge disconnect between how voters see their own state's economy and how they see the national economy? That same poll also had this: Yeah you’re always going to have a majority of Republicans say the economy is terrible just because we have a Democratic President
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Apr 5, 2024 15:18
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enahs posted:I think people are becoming more aware of the systemic issues due to raising food, housing, etc prices without commensurate increases in pay. I'm not implying that huge swaths of the country are reading socialist theory, more that they are starting to believe their lying eyes after decades of being convinced not to. The whole point is their "lying eyes" are seeing their own economic status, their neighbors status, and their community status as very good, but for some reason believe that the economy is bad everywhere they can't see. It's quite literally the opposite of your claim.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:23
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Main Paineframe posted:Instead, they suggest that the US population leans conservative on social issues, and that their dislike of Biden's left-leaning social policy is enough to overcome the fact that their own personal financial situations are doing fine under Biden. A few people were commenting on 'the problem with American democracy', talking about money in campaigns, AIPAC and the like. But it really seems like the actual problem with US democracy is that the US population is mostly Nazis. Even in the deep blue regions, the instant Dem voters see an illegal immigrant or a homeless person or get told they don't have absolute authority over schoolwork, they slam hard-right and start heiling. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 5, 2024 15:27
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There was just a minor earthquake on the east coast, so expect a wave of news posts momentarily
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Apr 5, 2024 15:34
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I don't really have words for the dismal feelings I get from the fact that Greg Abbott's cynical, black-hearted migrant busing scheme worked out better than he could've ever hoped. Though, to be fair to the liberal yankee hypocrites up north, there isn't a country in the world that is welcoming to immigrants.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:35
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Byzantine posted:A few people were commenting on 'the problem with American democracy', talking about money in campaigns, AIPAC and the like. But it really seems like the actual problem with US democracy is that the US population is mostly Nazis. Even in the deep blue regions, the instant Dem voters see an illegal immigrant or a homeless person or get told they don't have absolute authority over schoolwork, they slam hard-right and start heiling. That's quite the accusation to throw around without a shred of evidence, particularly the "homework" aspect a day after results of Moms For Liberty candidates were roundly defeated.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:36
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I think it's not entirely irrational for both the economy and people to be doing financially "well" while also feeling deeply insecure about their finances and their financial safety. Sure, you have a job and food and a roof over your head -- but is your budget leaving you so broke that you can't save enough to feel like you're truly safe and secure (while the money that would have been going into a house/financial investment asset/savings account/401k appears to go down the landlord/student loan/inflation drain)? quote:7 in 10 U.S. adults surveyed are stressed about money, CNBC finds. Bolding the above because that's what stands out to me as something people want to calm their anxieties that's likely not possible for everyone right now -- and might not have been classified as a need for people before now. Some people have mentioned the pandemic, and while that was indeed four years ago, I do think today's sense of financial insecurity goes back to an anxiety born from the pandemic that there won't be a social safety net to catch you if you fall -- because there sure as hell isn't one. The COVID safety net did spring out to catch most people in a one-time protective measure, yes. But the pandemic and its inflation bubble definitely heightened anxieties for most people about their ability to not just provide for themself, but also be capable of providing a personal safety net big enough to calm their (possibly equally inflated) anxieties. Combed Thunderclap fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 15:40
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haveblue posted:There was just a minor earthquake on the east coast, so expect a wave of news posts momentarily yeah my house shook for a bit, was on a work call and kinda assumed it was a low helocopter or something.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:40
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah my house shook for a bit, was on a work call and kinda assumed it was a low helocopter or something. I've lived in Tokyo since 2005. 4.8 wouldn't even wake me up.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:50
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