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The question is how will the court respond? Because they they just wag their finger and say “submit a new bond within 10 days” then this is unambiguously a win for Trump: he’ll have scammed himself and extra month to get things in order.
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Apr 6, 2024 20:40
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One question I have is whether Trump could get more of a bond later *anyway*. Like, ok, he doesn't file a sufficient bond by deadline, the AG can start selling assets. But that will take time. If he shows up the day of the auction with a sufficient bond, can he file it late and will that stop the sale?
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Apr 6, 2024 20:49
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fool of sound posted:The question is how will the court respond? Because they they just wag their finger and say “submit a new bond within 10 days” then this is unambiguously a win for Trump: he’ll have scammed himself and extra month to get things in order. Well, for one thing, has the judgement amount stopped accruing interest during this time? I'm not sure, but if it hasn't, then he's still very much facing financial penalties for loving around.
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Apr 6, 2024 21:49
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fool of sound posted:The question is how will the court respond? Because they they just wag their finger and say “submit a new bond within 10 days” then this is unambiguously a win for Trump: he’ll have scammed himself and extra month to get things in order. You better stop, or I'm going to tell you to stop again. You better watch it mister, because I mean it! I'll tell you to stop again! Believe me!
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Apr 6, 2024 22:12
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Dirk the Average posted:Well, for one thing, has the judgement amount stopped accruing interest during this time? I'm not sure, but if it hasn't, then he's still very much facing financial penalties for loving around. The interest doesn't stop, no. Cimber posted:You better stop, or I'm going to tell you to stop again. You better watch it mister, because I mean it! I'll tell you to stop again! Believe me! Maybe he's just trying to commit so much fraud that they can't collect judgement until after the elections. Unfortunately for him chances are they'll just start seizing his poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2024 22:22
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There's a pretty good chance he's doing this because of a lifetime of being consistently proven right about the idea that you can fraud your way out of fraud
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Apr 6, 2024 22:45
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So the newest shot across the bow in Georgia is a bit funny. https://twitter.com/hw_floyd/status/1776060884546113790?t=-pcV9AihY0pBAyFBUiBixA&s=19 Basically Floyd is making a weird 'resign or I charge you' blackmail argument based on the fact that Willis recorded a conversation with Floyd's lawyer who works in Maryland. Maryland is two part consent, while Georgia is not. Amusingly his lawyers don't seem to have googled much because nearly this exact issue was brought up recently in a civil case regarding notorious Donkey Kong cheat Billy Mitchell. There his former friend recorded a call from Ohio to Florida (one party to two party) and it was thrown out for lack of personal jurisdiction. That is, Florida doesn't have enough connection to Race simply because of a phone call to have him be subject to their laws. It'll be an amusing diversion if they try it.
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Apr 6, 2024 23:07
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... wait, doesn't that constitute blackmail and/or bribery?
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Apr 6, 2024 23:33
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Randalor posted:... wait, doesn't that constitute blackmail and/or bribery? Pretty sure it doesn't count as blackmail if you do it publicly.
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Apr 6, 2024 23:36
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Caros posted:i this exact issue was brought up recently in a civil case regarding notorious Donkey Kong cheat Billy Mitchell I didn’t think I’d be reading about Billy Mitchell here but where better?
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Apr 6, 2024 23:55
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I honestly thought it was firmly established case law for ages that call recording consent is covered by state law for where the person doing the recording resides
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Apr 6, 2024 23:58
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Goatse James Bond posted:I honestly thought it was firmly established case law for ages that call recording consent is covered by state law for where the person doing the recording resides I believe this is why Crank Yankers recorded all their calls in Nevada
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Apr 7, 2024 00:01
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Goatse James Bond posted:I honestly thought it was firmly established case law for ages that call recording consent is covered by state law for where the person doing the recording resides Weird that it wouldn't be covered by both sides or at least the side of the person being recorded as they would be the victim for the cases where it is actually a crime. Would be a lot easier to prosecute that way though I guess.
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Apr 7, 2024 00:02
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May.
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Apr 7, 2024 00:08
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Goatse James Bond posted:I honestly thought it was firmly established case law for ages that call recording consent is covered by state law for where the person doing the recording resides Because of basically all modern phone infrastructure calls are routed over state lines so it's technically a federal issue.
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Apr 7, 2024 00:13
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fool of sound posted:The question is how will the court respond? Because they they just wag their finger and say “submit a new bond within 10 days” then this is unambiguously a win for Trump: he’ll have scammed himself and extra month to get things in order. They will respond exactly like they have for every single deadline before. So far we have: Oh 7 days was too short? We can lower your bond 300 million and give you 10 more days. Oh you filed fraudulent paperwork for your lowered bond? That's okay we'll talk about it in 17 days and figure it out then. Guess what's going to happen? Oh you refiled bond paperwork at the last minute? Very good sir, we'll take some time to look at this and reconvene about it next month. This is predicable as the sunrise. Anyone thinking he'll have any trouble coming up with that money in this extended period of time is on crack. He has loads of rich assholes just waiting to buy him. aventari fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 00:58
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aventari posted:(doomering) Were that the case, they would have produced a $475mm bond straightaway, not dicked around and gotten Brassknucks Discount Repo Inc. in California to crap out a (60% reduced) funnymoney sheet to (checks notes) a court with no sense of humour and rapidly diminishing patience. - or - haveblue posted:Two different frauds were uncovered in the process of paying the bond for his fraud trial, which is a real accomplishment Thus restoring his entirely appropriate moniker as "the Shéhérazade of Crime"
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Apr 7, 2024 01:18
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Caros posted:So the newest shot across the bow in Georgia is a bit funny. Except that per the Maryland wiretapping act her position entitles her to record any conversation that could be considered part of her official duties da LAW posted:(4) (i) It is lawful under this subtitle for a law enforcement officer in the course of the officer's regular duty to intercept an oral communication if: Plus even if that didn't apply she almost certainly has sovereign immunity as a officer under Georgia law(Maryland could hardly prosecute a Georgia officer for a wiretap legal in Georgia that a Maryland person they didn't know about calls, even if per the text it wouldn't technically be legal). Barrel Cactaur fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 02:44
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dr_rat posted:Pretty sure it doesn't count as blackmail if you do it publicly. If you do it publicly it would probably be extortion.
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Apr 7, 2024 02:57
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Barrel Cactaur posted:Except that per the Maryland wiretapping act her position entitles her to record any conversation that could be considered part of her official duties You're implying that someone that would ruin their life for Trump isn't that smart? I'm shocked.
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Apr 7, 2024 02:59
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Iamgoofball posted:Because of basically all modern phone infrastructure calls are routed over state lines so it's technically a federal issue. federal law is one party consent so it doesn't override any states unless there's a zero party consent state that allows wiretapping for shits and giggles. nevada?
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Apr 7, 2024 04:12
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PainterofCrap posted:Were that the case, they would have produced a $475mm bond straightaway, not dicked around and gotten Brassknucks Discount Repo Inc. in California to crap out a (60% reduced) funnymoney sheet to (checks notes) a court with no sense of humour and rapidly diminishing patience. The point isn't to comply with court orders. The point is to drag out the process and delay, delay, delay. Dicking around is his absolute modus operandi in every legal situation he's been in. And it works. His assets haven't been seized, his bond has been lowered by 60+% and he's been given an extra *month* and counting. This time the tactic is even more effective as there is a timer on this process and it's up in 7 months.
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Apr 7, 2024 04:18
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aventari posted:The point isn't to comply with court orders. The point is to drag out the process and delay, delay, delay. Dicking around is his absolute modus operandi in every legal situation he's been in. And it works. His assets haven't been seized, his bond has been lowered by 60+% and he's been given an extra *month* and counting. So yeah I don't really buy the bond issue as delaying tactic as sure trump always like to delay, but also if the bond fails his poo poo starts get taking immediately. He wants there to be a bond and bet yet someone else paying for the bond, so he can appeal and obviously win the appeal... somehow, that's a later problem. Intentionally gently caress up the bond means that possibly there won't be a bond. That's worst case for him. He can maybe draw out an appeal, but his poo poo getting taking right now is the immediate concern. Like maybe I'm wrong and he'd risk it. And god know's he's probably getting terrible legal advice, but as a way of delaying things, sure it may work for like a week or two, which isn't even that long, but it has a high possiblity of giving him such an immediate bad outcome.
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Apr 7, 2024 04:41
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The whole point of the bond is that it delayed getting his poo poo taken until he appeals in September. (Or whenever). By what possible metric is this a delay?
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Apr 7, 2024 04:56
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Xiahou Dun posted:The whole point of the bond is that it delayed getting his poo poo taken until he appeals in September. (Or whenever). It's delaying enforcement if he can't get a real bond.
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Apr 7, 2024 05:07
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fool of sound posted:It's delaying enforcement if he can't get a real bond. Sure. And assuming all the assumptions are correct and this was somehow intentional, he has bought himself a week or two. Instead of just getting the money to delay until September (or whenever). I don’t think anyone has ever accused me of being an optimist, and I see a significant decline in his ability to wriggle. We’re not talking about actual escape, we’re talking delays on enforcement ; instead of measuring this time in months, it’s being measured in days.
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Apr 7, 2024 05:21
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Xiahou Dun posted:Sure. And assuming all the assumptions are correct and this was somehow intentional, he has bought himself a week or two. Instead of just getting the money to delay until September (or whenever). It's certainly possible that there actually might be a real actual consequence for him this time but we've seen dozens of supposed deadlines come and go.
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Apr 7, 2024 09:31
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Xiahou Dun posted:I don’t think anyone has ever accused me of being an optimist, and I see a significant decline in his ability to wriggle. ah, nevertheless (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 7, 2024 10:06
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Caros posted:Basically Floyd is making a weird 'resign or I charge you' blackmail argument based on the fact that Willis recorded a conversation with Floyd's lawyer who works in Maryland. Maryland is two part consent, while Georgia is not. Floyd can swear out a complaint. That’s it. He can’t charge a grapefruit. There’s no way the Maryland AG decides to bring some halfassed wiretapping charge against a Georgia based DA recording a call as part of her official duties that would immediately get removed to federal court and then almost certainly be dismissed How can Maryland law apply in GA? It’s doesn’t. If Fani had flown to Maryland to make the call then, maybe, there’s something there but still unlikely because there is probably a presumption that if you are discussing a case with a DA it’s being loving recorded.
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Apr 7, 2024 13:23
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Kchama posted:Unfortunately for him chances are they'll just start seizing his poo poo. Weren't they supposed to start doing this in NY? Someone in this thread mentioned that the process is quite refined and very quick. I'm guessing they haven't taken poo poo.
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Apr 7, 2024 14:31
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The Bible posted:Weren't they supposed to start doing this in NY? Someone in this thread mentioned that the process is quite refined and very quick. They would first take money out of bank accounts. The Sheriff would walk into a bank, hand a banker a piece of paper that says "Per court order XXXXX you are hereby directed to remove $Y from DTJ's account and put it into ours." Same thing would happen with brokerage accounts and other things like that with liquid cash. They really don't want to take real assets like buildings, golf courses or things like that because they would then have to sell it at firesale prices. If DJT somehow wins some or all of his appeal then NY would have to make him whole again and they can't do that if they have sold off some of his assets.
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Apr 7, 2024 14:38
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Cimber posted:They would first take money out of bank accounts. The Sheriff would walk into a bank, hand a banker a piece of paper that says "Per court order XXXXX you are hereby directed to remove $Y from DTJ's account and put it into ours." Ah, so they've done this, then.
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Apr 7, 2024 14:41
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The Bible posted:Ah, so they've done this, then. Or, you know, there’s been 40 pages of discussion about how an appeals courts extended the deadline.
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Apr 7, 2024 14:51
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The Bible posted:Ah, so they've done this, then. No, they have not yet because the bond is supposed to ensure (thus its a surety bond) that Trump has the assets to pay the fine if he looses his appeal. Normally the bond is for the full amount of the judgement with interest ticking every day that the bond is not fulfilled. However as I said above the amount was reduced to a faction of the total amount, likely the amount of cash and easily convertible bonds/stocks that he has on hand. They don't want to do harm before the appeals process is over. However he can still appeal all he wants without the bond, but he just has to fork over the money within 30 days of judgement. The bond simply stops the interest from accruing and assets from being taken.
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Apr 7, 2024 14:52
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Murgos posted:Or, you know, there’s been 40 pages of discussion about how an appeals courts extended the deadline. That's more or less my point. I hate to doompost, but I don't see how any of you still have any faith in the legal system at all. This poo poo builds up weekly and the numbers get bigger, but nothing ever really happens. Cimber posted:No, they have not yet because the bond is supposed to ensure (thus its a surety bond) that Trump has the assets to pay the fine if he looses his appeal. Do people usually get this level of consideration from the courts or is it just the Emerald+ tier? Where I'm from, if you can't afford to pay a court fine, there are rapid consequences, and the court sure as poo poo doesn't care if it will impact your quality of life or is even affordable to you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 7, 2024 15:05
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The Bible posted:That's more or less my point. Our justice system allows for appeals, it's not something just rich people get I don't think we should wipe out legal rights and processes just because we don't like the rear end in a top hat being charged.
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Apr 7, 2024 15:07
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socialsecurity posted:Our justice system allows for appeals, it's not something just rich people get Assuming your court-appointed lawyer has the time/competency/interest to guide you through that process. You're right, it's an important legal protection, but Trump is blatantly abusing it to stall for time, and everyone involved can see it, and the court is either powerless or unwilling to do anything about it. It's a tough stance to say that this is all how the system typically functions. Then again, I'm a layman on legal stuff, so maybe this all actually is normal and I've only ever seen the unlucky bastards who fall through the cracks, but this definitely looks like preferential treatment to me.
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Apr 7, 2024 15:16
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Its not just Trump that abuses the court system to stall for time. Everyone who has money enough to afford good lawyers has this option and they often do so. It's not unusual for large cases to take a decade+ to get resolved when there is a lot of money involved. If you were poor but had a lawyer willing to put in the time for free, you too could clog up the works with appeals, motions and other things specifically designed to gum up the works. It's just that lawyers don't work for free.
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Apr 7, 2024 16:08
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Cimber posted:Its not just Trump that abuses the court system to stall for time. Everyone who has money enough to afford good lawyers has this option and they often do so. It's not unusual for large cases to take a decade+ to get resolved when there is a lot of money involved. I mean criminal defendants do get free lawyers! One issue here is that Trump is facing fines from civil, not criminal, proceedings, and the standards are much more lax for civil appellants than they are for criminal defendants.
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Apr 7, 2024 16:13
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The Bible posted:That's more or less my point. Go touch grass for six months. Courtrooms do not move quickly, especially in civil cases. They're not really set up to be F5ed constantly. A bond isn't a court fine. It's a bond. It's not intended to be punitive. And it's not terribly unusual for the court to cut people some slack on big bonds when no violence or physical endangerment at all was involved in the charges they're facing. The Bible posted:Assuming your court-appointed lawyer has the time/competency/interest to guide you through that process. Who gives a poo poo if legal wrangling over the validity of the bond delays things a couple of days? It's not actually a significant gain for Trump. In fact, loving up the bond on purpose would be a tremendously loving stupid idea of a delay tactic, because literally the entire point of the bond here is that paying it will delay the enforcement of the judgment against him. Paying the bond is the delay tactic, and loving it up risks causing enforcement to start a lot earlier than it already would. That's hardly a smart risk to take for a few extra days worth of delay.
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Apr 7, 2024 16:33
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