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After a wipe is the perfect time for explanation, though. Why should everyone have to fail five times first? Like, I can understand where you're coming from regarding brand new before the pull explanations without request. Being upset about an explanation for something that just wiped the group already seems counterproductive.
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Apr 9, 2024 13:47
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There's a difference between someone loving up once and repeatedly loving up. People like to work out answers on their own, and it's annoying to me when someone goes into an explanation unprompted after just a single pull, without even waiting to see if the person that hosed up hasn't worked out an answer by himself. This is especially annoying on day 1 of patch where gently caress-ups are bound to happen and honestly are part of the fun of day 1 content. My own example in p12n was that I didn't face the boss directly north/south on wings after some of the platforms disappeared. I had no way of knowing that wings were going to appear. After the cast bars starts there is no way to reposition the boss. It is still possible to do the mechanism even if the boss isn't facing north/south. I can understand being more forthcoming with advice if it isn't the first week of release or if someone repeatedly does something wrong, but please let people discover the game for themselves on first day/week of release.
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Apr 9, 2024 13:55
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I disagree. I think it's rude to the seven other people in there to require the entire group to fail over and over again because one person must learn every mechanic by themselves. There's nothing wrong with explaining a mechanic after a wipe. I personally usually ask if people would like an explanation, but I cannot think of a time that after a wipe an explanation is inappropriate. If it's a mechanic that just kills you and doesn't wipe the fight - sure, go ahead, die as much as you want to learn it. There's no reason that 7-23 other people should have to let you wipe the raid half a dozen times before a mechanic is explained, though.
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Apr 9, 2024 13:58
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goblin week posted:Holy poo poo Zodiark was hard. Much like Eden Iconoclasm, I was extremely thwarted by the concept of "the damage areas will be rotated". God I'm bad at spatial reasoning. Fight fun though! Yeah I had this whole expectation of where EW's narrative was going to go completely shattered by the lv83 trial being loving Zodiark. Hope you're still having fun with it
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Apr 9, 2024 14:00
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I'm terrible at figuring out what to do on my own. If something kills me more than once I am begging you to please tell me what I'm supposed to be doing there
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Apr 9, 2024 14:01
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Tekopo posted:There's a difference between someone loving up once and repeatedly loving up. People like to work out answers on their own, and it's annoying to me when someone goes into an explanation unprompted after just a single pull, without even waiting to see if the person that hosed up hasn't worked out an answer by himself. This is especially annoying on day 1 of patch where gently caress-ups are bound to happen and honestly are part of the fun of day 1 content. You're not playing the game alone and learning from others is part of the game.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:03
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I should say, also, that wanting to be completely blind for a new fight and learn everything is ok. You should use a premade, though, if you don't want an explanation after a wipe. On early access, you can probably find seven other goons in your goon fc of choice and roll that way. In duty finder, though? Nah. Explanations after a wipe are 100% ok. You can't get mad at strangers for that.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:04
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I disagree. I think it's rude to spoil other people's fun of learning fights on day 1 of release because you are so desperate to clear as quickly as possible. Day 1 especially is the only chance that people might ever get to see content blind, and spoiling that for people AFTER 1 WIPE is, in my opinion, quite rude. I also don't mind after a couple more wipes if it's obvious the situation doesn't improve but let people have at least the chance to learn (I think saying 5 wipes was a bit of an exaggeration on my part). You can spend the rest of the months and months after content has been released to tell people what to do, if you want.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:06
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I'm explaining the mechanics after a wipe and no one will stop me
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Apr 9, 2024 14:08
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Cleretic posted:EDIT: The actual on-launch thing that ruined an experience of a fight for me was when we had a mostly-team-wipe at like 60% in P10N where both healers died, and the tanks spent like 10+ minutes dragging us to the end themselves. I'd prefer to actually do the loving fight, guys I've run into that sometimes and you really need to read the room. Sometimes it's a slog and better to just reset, but sometimes you can pull it out relatively quickly. One of my early times into the 85 dungeon everyone else died on the final boss and I finished something like the last 30% solo warrior with them cheering me on (this is the important part) and MAN what a rush. Whenever someone doritos themselves at the start of a day one raid I just look at them with scorn. "You woke up at 5AM and ran this just so you could be The Guy Who Knows Stuff for the rest of the day?"
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Apr 9, 2024 14:11
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Tekopo posted:I disagree. I think it's rude to spoil other people's fun of learning fights on day 1 of release because you are so desperate to clear as quickly as possible. Day 1 especially is the only chance that people might ever get to see content blind, and spoiling that for people AFTER 1 WIPE is, in my opinion, quite rude. I also don't mind after a couple more wipes if it's obvious the situation doesn't improve but let people have at least the chance to learn (I think saying 5 wipes was a bit of an exaggeration on my part). You can spend the rest of the months and months after content has been released to tell people what to do, if you want. Essentially ZenMasterBullshit posted:You're not playing the game alone and learning from others is part of the game.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:12
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i explain mechanics as soon as i get in, but to avoid spoilers i explain the wrong fight
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Apr 9, 2024 14:13
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I don't honestly think it's so beyond courtesy to wait until someone has hosed up at least twice before trying to give them advice. I'm not against asking or receiving advice, I am only asking for people to wait to see if people are making the same mistake again instead of immediately giving unwanted and sometimes un-needed advice after a single wipe on day 1 of a release.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:14
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Tekopo posted:I don't honestly think it's so beyond courtesy to wait until someone has hosed up at least twice before trying to give them advice. I'm not against asking or receiving advice, I am only asking for people to wait to see if people are making the same mistake again instead of immediately giving unwanted and sometimes un-needed advice after a single wipe on day 1 of a release.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:17
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orcane posted:Maybe the other 7 people know the fight and don't want to repeat it until you learn on your own, or they're fine being told what to do in order to get on with the MSQ or what have you. And how will they know it's okay for you specifically? Will you tell them "don't tell me until after wipe 3"? What about the guy in your group who wants to know only after wipe 10? Or wipe 2? Would that be okay?
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Apr 9, 2024 14:18
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If you don’t want advice just hide the chat box then check it after 7 wipes
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Apr 9, 2024 14:22
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I can't afford to waste five unproductive minutes of my life in this content I'm going to run dozens of times before the next patch even hints at approaching.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:23
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The experience-shattering spoiler of "move clockwise."
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Apr 9, 2024 14:27
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Part of how fights are designed in this game is no single mechanic is gonna outright kill you in normal content, and are usually presented in a vacuum before being combined with other mechanics. Three quick examples from memory:
All that to say that I don't think screwing up any one mechanic is going to lead to a total party wipe early enough in the fight that people who are there to learn it aren't gonna get it. I do think two wipes is a good metric to run by, because in all my time playing this game I've seen it happen so infrequently I can't think of an exact time it happened last. Even in fresh rear end content I've run at 6am on patch day and come back to at 11am it's not common. Ask if people want tips if you want. Even put it in shout chat if you like - I know plenty of people filter shout and yell by default at expac launch. But at least gi d people a chance to pick it up themselves first.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:28
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Vitamean posted:[*] P12N The left/right mechanic is shown off once or twice by itself before it happens during the fallen platforms, and it's possible to heal through it with a parry mit or two for comfort if the tank points the boss in a way that two cleaves are unavoidable. quote:All that to say that I don't think screwing up any one mechanic is going to lead to a total party wipe early enough in the fight that people who are there to learn it aren't gonna get it. I do think two wipes is a good metric to run by, because in all my time playing this game I've seen it happen so infrequently I can't think of an exact time it happened last. Even in fresh rear end content I've run at 6am on patch day and come back to at 11am it's not common.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:34
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Learning a new mechanic is fun and I want to learn it myself, not have someone poorly explain it for five minutes without being aaked to. I'd be tempted to early pull if that happened. If some did it after being asked not to I would absolutely just pull.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:35
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Tekopo posted:Maybe the other 6 people in the fight also don't want to be immediately spoiled, so creating hypotheticals like this doesn't really work because every group that is going to DF is gonna be different. So the best answer is to go "Do you mind if I give you some advice" and then proceed based on what people say instead of just outright blurting out what to do with no prompt. You can hide the chat box if you personally don't want to chance that. It's not you're missing important conversations outside of talking about mechanics mid instance.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:38
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You can hide the chat box if you personally don't want to chance that. It's not you're missing important conversations outside of talking about mechanics mid instance. I mean this isn't true. 'AFK for a sec' before a pull is something I wouldn't want to miss. I don't want to be a dick to someone because they have to pee.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:39
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ImpAtom posted:Learning a new mechanic is fun and I want to learn it myself, not have someone poorly explain it for five minutes without being aaked to. I'd be tempted to early pull if that happened. Yeah but that's usually not what's happening. Mechanics in story trials and dungeons are usually easy to explain. At most you're getting a "yeah that hits one side then the other so you need to pull it there" after a wipe
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Apr 9, 2024 14:40
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so i quit right at the end of endwalker main story and havent played anything from 6.1 onwards. how much story content is there, just wondering how soon i should resub to prep myself for dawntrail!
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Apr 9, 2024 14:40
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ImpAtom posted:I mean this isn't true. 'AFK for a sec' before a pull is something I wouldn't want to miss. I don't want to be a dick to someone because they have to pee. You can either engage with the party who want to not wipe again or you can ignore them. The person trying to clears time is just as important as me if I need to step away and pee.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:41
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queeb posted:so i quit right at the end of endwalker main story and havent played anything from 6.1 onwards. how much story content is there, just wondering how soon i should resub to prep myself for dawntrail! A couple dungeons and 4 trials
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Apr 9, 2024 14:41
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prob take a couple weeks to get through if you wanna catch up. give or take a week if you buy the latest crafted gear or grind out tomestones for it.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:42
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ImpAtom posted:A couple dungeons and 4 trials
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Apr 9, 2024 14:42
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You can either engage with the party who want to not wipe again or you can ignore them. The person trying to clears time is just as important as me if I need to step away and pee. Rushing in while someone is AFK isn't really the same. My time is no so valuable I will demand someone piss themselves so I don't have to wait 2 minutes queeb posted:so if I resub in like mid may to blast everything thats probably enough time Absolutely
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Apr 9, 2024 14:44
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You can hide the chat box if you personally don't want to chance that. It's not you're missing important conversations outside of talking about mechanics mid instance. Also most of my experiences with new content on day 1 (at least for normal content) has been that people either: - Just take 2-3 wipes in silence and then the content is cleared anyway, because normal content is pretty goddamn easy anyway. - Someone fucks up 2-3 times and then someone (even me!) gives some advice once it's clear someone is struggling. The times when I've been in normal content, even on day 1 and have been unable to clear it is probably 1% of all DFs that I ever did, to the extent that I don't even remember a group disbanding mid-content. Also the only time when I really got mad at someone instead of just saying "I don't need advice, thanks" was when I joined a PF of day 1 extreme that was billed "blind from start" and after two pulls, someone was like "I have markers for this next mechanism, I'll tell you what to do". I did quit that PF because of it.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:51
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I do get so angry when someone sees me struggling and offers assistance.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:52
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I like learning the content blind, too, which is why I coordinate with such a group before jumping into it. It's not hard, especially if you're in any way affiliated with the goon FCs. If you're in DF, an explanation after a wipe, even on day one is not rude because there are other people playing as well with disparate goals. I'd say it's courteous to explain a mechanic after a wipe so that the group doesn't wipe again on that mechanic.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:55
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Did an extreme trial where one guy put down so many markers that it was hard to see anything and we wiped over and over again so when we started getting closer to the time limit I would put a 1 over the boss after every wipe and write “go after 1 first, the big guy in the middle I think”
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Apr 9, 2024 14:55
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Mr. Nice! posted:I like learning the content blind, too, which is why I coordinate with such a group before jumping into it. It's not hard, especially if you're in any way affiliated with the goon FCs.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:58
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I explain mechanics wrong on day one so everyone is forced to learn for themselves and thus when we finally succeed after wipe 15 they all have the same sense of accomplishment that I have.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:59
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tbf giving un-solicited, un-needed and (often times) wrong advice is pretty on-brand for goons
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Apr 9, 2024 15:01
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goons would yell at people to hold dps on the last EW trial back when it wasn't ilvl capped lol
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Apr 9, 2024 15:05
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Tekopo posted:tbf giving un-solicited, un-needed and (often times) wrong advice is pretty on-brand for goons I think getting this upset because someone said "Hey stand over here for that mechanic" after you die to it is very silly and goofy, personally.
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Apr 9, 2024 15:06
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It's entirely possible, upon entering a duty for the first time, to just say "first time, no advice unless we wipe X times please". People aren't required to respect that request, but they probably will! Especially if it's release day.
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Apr 9, 2024 15:07
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