|
I think it was Romero who noted that Doom2 had no shareware, as everyone "had already played all of Doom1" from just the shareware and didn't go on to buy the full thing. Which to be fair, sounds about right! I didn't see episodes 2 or 3 until I was an adult - I just pirated Doom2 like everybody else.
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 20:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
Convex posted:Fair enough, but what about DOOM II? I don't think I knew anyone that paid for a copy of that when I was younger Once DOOM hit big there was no shortage of selling DOOM in stores. People were dropping $2k+ on a new PC just to play DOOM, another $40 for a boxed copy was hardly a hinderance. Mind you, people were also buying crap like D!ZONE in stores which was nothing more than levels you could legitimately download from idgames FTP mirrors for free. Like, was DOOM pirated a bunch? Sure, probably. More so than other games of the era? Maybe. But the shareware version was ubiquitous and the retail versions sold very well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 20:08
|
|
|
Serephina posted:I think it was Romero who noted that Doom2 had no shareware, as everyone "had already played all of Doom1" from just the shareware and didn't go on to buy the full thing. It's just that DOOM was so big that there was an insatiable appetite for retail releases for a two year period.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 20:11
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:Mind you, people were also buying crap like D!ZONE in stores which was nothing more than levels you could legitimately download from idgames FTP mirrors for free. At 33.6kbps or lower, this would take quite a while (and that's assuming you had internet access for your Doom box, which was not a given like it is today), so compilation discs still had some value
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 20:20
|
|
|
haveblue posted:At 33.6kbps or lower, this would take quite a while (and that's assuming you had internet access for your Doom box, which was not a given like it is today), so compilation discs still had some value
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:13
|
|
|
haveblue posted:At 33.6kbps or lower, this would take quite a while (and that's assuming you had internet access for your Doom box, which was not a given like it is today), so compilation discs still had some value The struggle was real. If memory serves my 14.4kbps modem would take around 5 minutes to download a megabyte, and that was connected to a reliable ftp.cdrom.com mirror. You might not get a great signal to noise ratio on a disc full of levels scraped off of /idgames, but if you just wanted easy access to Doom content to while away a few weekends, there were worse ways to spend your money. That didn’t make them good, mind you. In hindsight I think part of my night owl tendencies was down to having uninterrupted access to the phone line after 9 pm, when phone calls dried up and I could commandeer the line for myself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:16
|
|
|
Never made sense to me that people ragged on those packs for distributing stuff you could get on an FTP. I had to schedule time just to play a C&C match.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:17
|
|
|
Volte posted:When I was a kid I remember asking my dad permission to download Memento Mori II because it was like 4MB and that was going to tie up the phone line for 30 minutes Probably a lot longer than that if it was 4MB; I remember downloading the Quake shareware on a modem was perilous since it was a huge 8MB or something like that and it tied up the phone for hours
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:19
|
|
|
We didn't have internet access until I was like 15, but then we got broadband. I had to deal with dialup and AOL when hanging out with friends that had internet before I did but I never had it myself. My first online game was q2, and I had played through the single player campaign several times before getting internet access.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:19
|
|
|
I had ethernet in the quake 1 era it was about as fair as you'd think
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:34
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:Never made sense to me that people ragged on those packs for distributing stuff you could get on an FTP. I had to schedule time just to play a C&C match. In hindsight it feels kind of scummy to just take a bunch of maps from the Internet and sell them on a CD without compensation to the map makers. Of course I say this while looking at several Shareware CD collections I own.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:43
|
|
|
loving lpbs
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:43
|
|
|
My parents hung on to having two phones lines with dial up internet instead of getting broadband for a very long time lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 23:07
|
|
|
Those D!Zone-style commercial bundles were always inscrutable to child-me because they seemed so weirdly unprofessional, yet I couldn't conceive of where all of this content was coming from. It was only a few years later with stuff like Build.exe that I realized this was all poo poo that random people were making.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 23:11
|
|
|
Not sure about Doom 2, but small indie games nowadays often sell more copies than Doom 1 did in its first year based on what I've dug up. Probably a testament to just how much PC gaming has grown since then, along with digital distribution versus mail, but it probably also speaks to the amount of people that were satisfied with the shareware version and piracy of the registered version. I know Nintendo would do "Player's Choice" version for million sellers, and there weren't a ton of those back in the day, but there certainly were a good handful. But also that's the console market. I believe someone stated publicly that D!ZONE sold more copies at retail did than D2. spongeh fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 00:07
|
|
|
Probably a separate conversation but game sales numbers have just become very different over the years. We get those news stories every so often that a game is $40 3 weeks after release, and the studio is getting shuttered, and there's no chance of a sequel, because it "only" sold 3 million copies or whatever. In my head a million still feels like a lot, because I'm pretty sure that growing up with gaming in the 90's, 1 million sales was a lot. Regardless of the breakdown of Doom and Doom 2 sales, I guess it's no secret at this point that they were.. extremely lucrative for id.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 10:08
|
|
|
My cousin had a legit copy of Doom 2. My god, the jealousy I had was almost palpable. I remember sitting next to him, watching him slowly trudge through the game. It's so weird how Doom and Doom 2 felt back then compared to now. I don't know if it's just the keyboard-only, low fps gameplay compared to the mods and updates to the gzdoom/official Unity engine now, but it almost feels like an entirely different game. That kind of 'spectacle' just carries an entirely different vibe for both games than it does now. They're still fantastic, practically perfect, but I'll never truly seem them how I saw them back then. Maybe it's because I didn't yet know what was around a given corner, or what challenges I'd be facing, what guns I'd be given yet, whereas now, those games are mapped out and charted down to the last byte. But that sort of indescribable feeling, while not necessary to enjoy the games, is gone now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 10:56
|
|
|
I had a legit copy of Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom. I didn't even know about software piracy back then and I don't even know how I would have obtained it since CD burners weren't a thing and there was no way the internet connection (did I even have an internet connection at that point? I can't remember...) could have sustained the download. Was there a multi-floppy release?Rupert Buttermilk posted:... I don't know if it's just the keyboard-only ...
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 14:05
|
|
|
Volte posted:I had a legit copy of Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom. I didn't even know about software piracy back then and I don't even know how I would have obtained it since CD burners weren't a thing and there was no way the internet connection (did I even have an internet connection at that point? I can't remember...) could have sustained the download. Was there a multi-floppy release? There was a media chain called Hastings that got into big trouble in the 90s for renting out PC games… Doom II among them. Maybe something like that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 14:38
|
|
|
Volte posted:I had a legit copy of Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom. I didn't even know about software piracy back then and I don't even know how I would have obtained it since CD burners weren't a thing and there was no way the internet connection (did I even have an internet connection at that point? I can't remember...) could have sustained the download. Was there a multi-floppy release? I have a floppy copy (lol) in the loft right now! I think Ultimate DOOM and Hexen, which released in 1995, only came out on CD-ROM though edit: that said, the original DOOM was on floppy and episode 4 was a free patch (was this the first ever DLC?) so would have been easy to get around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI Convex fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Apr 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:00
|
|
|
Volte posted:I had a legit copy of Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom. I didn't even know about software piracy back then and I don't even know how I would have obtained it since CD burners weren't a thing and there was no way the internet connection (did I even have an internet connection at that point? I can't remember...) could have sustained the download. Was there a multi-floppy release? The original games released on floppy disks, when cdroms (burners or readers) were not a thing for most people. Doom 2 was five, I believe? And of course, there was software piracy with people copying the floppy disks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:01
|
|
|
We definitely "rented" Doom 2 from some random store that used to be around. Which basically automatically put you on the road to piracy since you couldn't play it without installing it. And for games that did have copyright protection systems involving looking up pages the manual... Well, we had a photocopier. In hindsight, I guess this was an added incentive for them to start adding FMVs to games in the CD era. Sir Lemming fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:15
|
|
|
As someone who was terrible at keeping track of packaging and manuals, copy protection stymied me as a legit owner probably more so than it did pirates. I definitely remember being locked out of playing The Lost Vikings because I lost the manual and you needed to enter specific words from the manual to install it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:18
|
|
|
site posted:My parents hung on to having two phones lines with dial up internet instead of getting broadband for a very long time lol I'm surprised I got ISDN (two 64K channels so I could use internet and have a phone line active) way too early in like 1998, while 99% of homes in here barely had dial-up. It wasn't a good line for downloading but latency with my dedicated card was superb (talking about a 18-25ms ping from Spain to german servers for example) so it was waaaay better than the DSL they started offering in early 2000's
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:21
|
|
|
haveblue posted:loving lpbs Lots of memories of playing C&C & StarCraft online, with ***56K NO*** in the lobby titles 
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:33
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:We definitely "rented" Doom 2 from some random store that used to be around. Which basically automatically put you on the road to piracy since you couldn't play it without installing it. The best copy protection was for F-19 Stealth Fighter where you had to identify an aircraft from a top down line drawing of it, ostensibly by looking it up in the manual. In practice they were all so distinct if you had any interest in flight sims you'd learn it near instantly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:35
|
|
|
Volte posted:
Yeah, I know, but I was, at the time, so used to using keyboard only for Wolf3D, it'd be a couple years before I used m+kb. And I know that you could also use your  ) with Wolf3D. I should mention that one of the reasons Doom and Doom 2 feel so much different to me when I look back when they were released is because I actually wasn't allowed to play either of them. I had like years-long FOMO, so watching my cousin play his Brand New Copy of Doom 2 was definitely an experience. Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Apr 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:47
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:And I know that you could also use your mouth with Wolf3D. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:58
|
|
|
I should just go to bed for the rest of the day.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:04
|
|
|
Bumhead posted:We get those news stories every so often that a game is $40 3 weeks after release, and the studio is getting shuttered, and there's no chance of a sequel, because it "only" sold 3 million copies or whatever. lol, posted this earlier today and now I'm sat reading about how EA cancelled a Dead Space 2 remake due to low sales and the studio have been sent to work on Marvel poo poo. What's the over/under on Dead Space selling over 3 million copies?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:10
|
|
|
I remember playing QWTF on a 28.8k modem. Being an HPB I knew there was lag, but having never experienced anything but 250+ pings at best, it was hard to realize how bad that disadvantage was. About a year in my dad god a cable modem, and I immediately went from no name clans to one of the better teams that played at the top of various QWTF leagues like Stronger Than All and Iron Glove. Now I feel like I’m moving a mouse through molasses if I have a high two digit ping.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:28
|
|
|
chocolateTHUNDER posted:Lots of memories of playing C&C & StarCraft online, with ***56K NO*** in the lobby titles They didn't say anything about 28.8 >_>
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:38
|
|
|
Volte posted:I had a legit copy of Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom. I didn't even know about software piracy back then and I don't even know how I would have obtained it since CD burners weren't a thing and there was no way the internet connection (did I even have an internet connection at that point? I can't remember...) could have sustained the download. Was there a multi-floppy release? The Ultimate DOOM was a retail-only release, primarily on CD-ROM. I don't know if they ever made a floppy-disk version of it. As others have mentioned, owners of the registered version of DOOM could download a free patch for the Ultimate DOOM from the idgames FTP mirrors. The retail version of DOOM II was a simultaneous 5x3.5" floppy and CD-ROM release. The CD-ROM version was v1.666, while the floppy version was updated at least once (I had v1.7). These were sold in nearly-identical looking big boxes at retail. However the initial CD-ROM print run sold out quickly in late 1994, so for a while you might only find the floppy version. The way all these versions worked is that the installation media contained a copy of id's "DeICE" installer, which copied and concatenated a self-extracting .zip or .lzh executable, split across each of the media, to a hard disk. Once that was reconstructed on the hard disk, the self-extractor would run and effectively "unzip" a single folder of contents which was the game, and then run SETUP.EXE. Like most DOS games, the folder was self-contained, so pirates could just ignore DeICE, and re-zip/rar/arj/ace/(others?) the install folder for distribution. In general, DeICE was pretty flexible. id outsourced distribution for Europe/Oceana/etc. and so I think there's "official" 5.25" releases in those regions. It wasn't hard to re-package and modify the installer payload as needed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:44
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:The retail version of DOOM II was a simultaneous 5x3.5" floppy and CD-ROM release. The CD-ROM version was v1.666, while the floppy version was updated at least once (I had v1.7). These were sold in nearly-identical looking big boxes at retail. However the initial CD-ROM print run sold out quickly in late 1994, so for a while you might only find the floppy version.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:51
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:The registered version of DOOM was a 4x3.5" floppy release that was regularly updated through 1994-95 (1.1, 1.2, 1.666, 1.9). There was also a CD-ROM release of DOOM 1.9 that came out in Spring 1995 before the Ultimate DOOM--Romero claims this is the rarest release, although coincidentally I actually bought it at this time and still have it. Yeah - a buddy of mine plonking along on a 386DX/40 reached out to me when one of his Ultimate Doom 3.5” floppies went bad; five minutes looking through my CD copy for floppy #4’s data file and a sacrificial AOL floppy later, I had him fixed up. I think it was possible to get 5.25” floppies for Doom II in the U.S. but you had to provide proof of purchase to their help line and they’d mail them to you. Once CD burners were common I made it a habit to make Doom care packages for people with fun WADs, I didn’t give a poo poo about piracy once id had made a pile of money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 18:03
|
|
|
Hasturtium posted:I think it was possible to get 5.25” floppies for Doom II in the U.S. Just doing some quick math that's 12 discs, if they were using the highest capacity 5.25" floppies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 18:18
|
|
|
Baron von Eevl posted:Just doing some quick math that's 12 discs, if they were using the highest capacity 5.25" floppies. Doom II was on what, five 1.44mb floppies? And the highest capacity 5.25" was 1.2Mb so how do you get to 12?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 18:21
|
|
|
I was just thinking 14mb/1.2mb
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 18:26
|
|
|
Baron von Eevl posted:I was just thinking 14mb/1.2mb Doom’s install files were compressed: as you came to the end of each floppy it essentially wrote those contents out as a continuation to whatever had already been committed to the hard drive, then when all the data had been concatenated it creates a self-extracting archive, unpacks the contents into the install folder, deletes the self-extracting file once that’s complete, and runs SETUP.EXE. I think Doom II and Ultimate Doom used 6 or 7 5.25” floppies each.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
Fil5000 posted:Doom II was on what, five 1.44mb floppies? And the highest capacity 5.25" was 1.2Mb so how do you get to 12? Original Doom release was four floppies and Doom 2 five (counting 1.44mb ones of course). Never seen the 5.25" release in EU tho
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 19:47
|
|