|
Keromaru5 posted:St. Maximus the Confessor lost his tongue and hand for saying basically that. nothing to add but thank you for the detail. i am quite weak on the proper theology, i tend towards themes and practicalism in terms of my own interests
|
# ? Apr 3, 2024 21:34 |
|
|
# ? May 21, 2024 16:01 |
|
What each thinker gets right is more important than what they make wrong.
|
# ? Apr 4, 2024 07:45 |
|
Orbs posted:I love Ursula K LeGuin most https://bookshop.org/p/books/lao-tzu-tao-te-ching-a-book-about-the-way-and-the-power-of-the-way-ursula-k-le-guin/9765206?ean=9781611807240 Nessus posted:Thich Nhat Hanh Thank you for the advice everyone, but especially for these 2 options.
|
# ? Apr 4, 2024 20:20 |
|
Well it turns out that Porphyry writing about Plotinus is quite interesting which is a relief! "Plotinus could not bear to go back on his work even for one re-reading; and indeed the condition of his sight would scarcely allow it: his handwriting was slovenly; he misjoined his words; he cared nothing about spelling; his one concern was for the idea: in these habits, to our general surprise. he remained unchanged to the very end. He used to work out his design mentally from first to last: when he came to set down his ideas, he wrote out at one jet all he had stored in mind as though he were copying from a book." edit: So really Plotinus didn't write a book. Plotinus wrote out the contents of his brains on paper and Porphyry assembled a book out of the mass that accrued. Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Apr 5, 2024 |
# ? Apr 5, 2024 10:50 |
|
Prurient Squid posted:Well it turns out that Porphyry writing about Plotinus is quite interesting which is a relief! oh my god thats literally how i write anything of consequence yay plotinus
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 13:48 |
|
Nessus posted:Right that’s just where my gut is so even if I appreciate a lot of Christian stuff it hits wrong which one
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 13:54 |
|
Anybody got a couple million pounds to spare?
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 14:24 |
NomChompsky posted:which one
|
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 14:34 |
|
I'll chip in a tenner
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 14:59 |
|
I wouldn’t mind going to see it before it went on auction. I remember seeing some of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the whole exhibit had almost a sacred feeling to it.
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 17:40 |
|
The phrase "Kitab Al Azif" came up twice today.
|
# ? Apr 5, 2024 19:28 |
|
I've made it through to the text of the Enneads! Woo! Only took seven hours.
|
# ? Apr 6, 2024 11:25 |
Prurient Squid posted:The phrase "Kitab Al Azif" came up twice today.
|
|
# ? Apr 6, 2024 19:07 |
|
Plotinus seems to be saying that there is just one soul which radiates out "like a face reflected in many mirrors" and that the soul is inwardly at peace. The problem is to be found in "the couplement" where there soul meets the body. Also he has his own concept of the ego but he calls it "the We".
|
# ? Apr 7, 2024 13:21 |
|
Prurient Squid posted:I've made it through to the text of the Enneads! Woo! Only took seven hours. Prurient Squid posted:Plotinus seems to be saying that there is just one soul which radiates out "like a face reflected in many mirrors" and that the soul is inwardly at peace. The problem is to be found in "the couplement" where there soul meets the body. I truck with this, actually. There is a polytheist professor who has written some essays I like and the way he expresses his paganism involves a lot of Buddhist and Platonist thought. When he discusses the multiplicity of the nature of God he likes to use an Indra's Net metaphor -- each jewel in the net being a Deity who reflects not only the light of the Source/the Soul/the One but also the light of all the other jewels suspended throughout the net, the nearer the brighter, the further less distinctly, but all sharing and participating in each other sharing that light regardless. He also observes that as we refine and polish our portions of the Soul we too reflect more of the Divine nature more brightly or with greater clarity. I believe it is the Bahai'i who are one of the modern faiths with belief in that reflection of the Divine, they say people considered prophets are mirrors of God. The difference between a Deity and a human prophet, when both function via reflection of the Divine Source, is then found in both quality and quantity capable of being reflected by the kind of entity in question and kind of emphasizes the actual line that has been drawn in the sand for poly- vs monotheism: to what degree something must be recognized as Divine before it might be called God. LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Apr 7, 2024 |
# ? Apr 7, 2024 15:35 |
|
Having just experienced a total solar eclipse and seen the sky literally go dark at 3:18 in the afternoon: good Lord, I can absolutely understand why the ancient Egyptians thought that was Ap🔪ep swallowing Re and the Boat of Millions of Years. If you didn't know what was going on that would be absolutely terrifying. They had an actual book of spells and charms to be worked during this sort of thing, the Book of Overthrowing Ap🔪ep, which had ritual activities such as treading a drawing of it (in green ink! Very specific) under the left foot, spitting on it, and setting it on fire, with accompanying conjurations: quote:Be thou utterly spat upon, O ʿAp🔪ep, get thee back, thou foe of Re; fall, creep away, take thee off! I have turned thee back, I have cut thee up, and Re is triumphant over thee, O Ap🔪ep. Be thou spat upon, O Ap🔪ep. Get thee back, thou rebel; be thou annihilated! Verily I have burned thee, verily I have destroyed thee, I have condemned thee to all ill, that thou mayest be annihilated, that thou mayest be utterly spat upon, that thou mayest be utterly non-existent. Mayest thou be annihilated, be thou annihilated, mayest thou be utterly spat upon. I have destroyed Ap🔪ep the foe of Re; Re is triumphant over thee, O Ap🔪ep and Pharaoh is triumphant over his foes. Re is triumphant over thee, O Ap🔪ep, Re triumphs over thee, O Ap🔪ep, in very truth; be thou destroyed, O Ap🔪ep. (knives added for reasons, if you know, you know) I went out with a drawing of a snake (drawn on a post-it) and did some of these during totality, because I am a very weird vaguely dual-observant sort of person, and I got an odd look from someone passing by the parking lot. But hey, the lovely worm spat Re out, so it worked. Grinding a bad drawing of a snake underfoot: surprisingly effective.
|
# ? Apr 8, 2024 20:41 |
|
|
# ? Apr 8, 2024 21:01 |
|
Me, grabbing the lovely little worm: SPIT HIM OUT, SPIT HIM OUT RIGHT NOW
|
# ? Apr 8, 2024 21:04 |
|
I had faith in you and other magicians/Gods helping Him get home safely, I set up a little outdoor display of flowers and stuff so as to welcome Him back lol
|
# ? Apr 8, 2024 21:13 |
|
Mad Hamish posted:Having just experienced a total solar eclipse and seen the sky literally go dark at 3:18 in the afternoon: good Lord, I can absolutely understand why the ancient Egyptians thought that was Ap🔪ep swallowing Re and the Boat of Millions of Years. If you didn't know what was going on that would be absolutely terrifying.
|
# ? Apr 8, 2024 21:43 |
|
So the first Sunday service after easter and my baptism was also a town hall meeting in which the vestry basically looked at the congregation and said "We've got enough money to keep operating this building and services until late fall." I'm pretty torn up about it, and the fact that of the only people young enough to actually get out there and do anything one of them is like 'I don't care if we have a building, we can worship in a field!" and the other is "I don't like talking to other people about belief because so many people have been traumatized." Like, it is obvious here that the reason the church is falling apart is because the congregation is geriatric and unable to do anything, they offer nothing at all that would be suitable for children (which is 50% of the reason people even go to church things). Half of the things the ministry offered before Covid never ever even came back. The vestry is very clearly seeming like they're all throwing in the towel. There's no ideas. The poll among the congregation said they'd like to try and do the work to save it, but the vestry keeps basically saying 'Okay, even if we get the 50,000 dollars we need this year to keep running until January, what then?" Apparently "Getting Mission status in TEC is bad, because you lose authority in the Diocese" which...tracks? That makes sense? Why wouldn't you? I am sure there are going to be many conversations and many ideas floated but man it's a bummer. I'm also 95% certain the IT guy at the church is straight up taking them for a loving ride. He has been working for 3 years getting a different camera set up for streaming and...it's no closer to being done even in the six months since I've been attending? I could have gotten that poo poo done in a weekend. I'm frustrated, and irritated at the lack of motivation.
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 02:52 |
|
IT people often love taking people for rides, that much is true. And you're completely right about the lack of family-oriented stuff, that's a problem. This may be a stretch, but there may be some grant money out there for hosting support group services. Regardless of that, it's good to do, and may also look like a change in a positive direction re: financial support. And imo that's a good way to get people to organically drift into church. They're in the building, having hopefully positive meaningful personal experiences, and a nice person is hosting without evangelizing.
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 03:16 |
|
I see a parallel between A Course In Miracles idea for the day "Love created me in it's own image" and Marcus Aurelius' "My son, it's not for this that we were made".
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 16:46 |
NomChompsky posted:So the first Sunday service after easter and my baptism was also a town hall meeting in which the vestry basically looked at the congregation and said "We've got enough money to keep operating this building and services until late fall." As for the camera. Can you contact the IT guy or is he an outside contractor.
|
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 16:55 |
|
Elaine Pagels, "The Gnostic Gospels" posted:While the Valentinians publicly confessed faith in one God,17 in their own private meetings they insisted on discriminating between the popular image of God—as master, king, lord, creator, and judge—and what that image represented—God understood as the ultimate source of all being.18 Valentinus calls that source “the depth”;19 his followers describe it as an invisible, incomprehensible primal principle.20 But most Christians, they say, mistake mere images of God for that reality.21 They point out that the Scriptures sometimes depict God as a mere craftsman, or as an avenging judge, as a king who rules in heaven, or even as a jealous master. But these images, they say, cannot compare with Jesus’ teaching that “God is spirit” or the “Father of Truth.”22 Another Valentinian, the author of the Gospel of Philip, points out that names can be hhheyyy, that's what I've been saying! e: that Tillich thought that, I mean. I guess the rest of it too though
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 17:59 |
|
I was listening to "Gayatri Mantra 108 times" on YouTube and some pigeons showed up on my balcony and wanted into my apartment. What does this mean
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 20:27 |
|
You must be putting out good vibrations. Birb like them and want to be close to you. Very blessed
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 20:59 |
|
Gayatri Mantra makes pigeons horny.
|
# ? Apr 9, 2024 21:09 |
|
Nessus posted:Regarding the belief trauma - yup - but I guess some taxes got lowered and some libs owned, far more precious than salvation He works there. The first time I got the whiff that he's totally full of poo poo was when we were having trouble getting a Macbook to dual screen to a TV and he said "Oh we gotta turn it off and turn it back on. It's not like Windows PC's where you can just plug it in and it works, with macs you have to turn it off with it plugged in and turn it back on." Like, plug and play has been the standard for every single piece of technology for 20 years dude. But I haven't raised an issue because I was still going through baptism formation and just straight up didn't want to step on people's toes. But it's kind of like, at this point, what do you guys want, for everyone to be comfortable, or to lose a church that's been in this town since 1949?
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 01:38 |
|
NomChompsky posted:So the first Sunday service after easter and my baptism was also a town hall meeting in which the vestry basically looked at the congregation and said "We've got enough money to keep operating this building and services until late fall." oh good now youre really in the episcopal church. ngl, its this bad and worse everywhere that isnt the coasts, and even they're starting to smell something weird. since you got a lot of white hairs youre gonna start running into the boomer/abno mindset where its like ''if we cant have church they way ive had it for the last 40 years just fuckin burn the place down'' which you will hear way more the closer it gets to the line, and its going to suck and hurt and im sorry. getting mission status in TEC is basically the diocese saying ''ok u cant be hosed to work and keep poo poo alive so we're taking our poo poo back and running you until you either a) die completely, b) become financially solvent or c) god themself comes down and fixes your poo poo. given the hilarious bon temps roulez attitude ive seen from our older congregants, youre probably gonna die because of the hilarious mismanagement of the parish because ''it will be like this forever'' except lol no it wont because you chased all the gay and DINK and trans and black and poor people money away, and now we're spending it on remasters of MGS 3 because gently caress yeah pls feel free to PM or shitpost in my E/N thread if you would like to commiserate and/or complain (and/or get ideas for the poo poo that's working right now to get asses in seats) if u feel so called. im prayin for you and y'all for what its worth; this is an ugly situation ps tell your rector/vicar/PIC/whoever about the IT guy, if the parish wont listen, the diocese sure as gently caress will
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 04:46 |
|
sinnesloeschen posted:oh good now youre really in the episcopal church. ngl, its this bad and worse everywhere that isnt the coasts, and even they're starting to smell something weird. since you got a lot of white hairs youre gonna start running into the boomer/abno mindset where its like ''if we cant have church they way ive had it for the last 40 years just fuckin burn the place down'' which you will hear way more the closer it gets to the line, and its going to suck and hurt and im sorry. Expect a PM.
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 07:59 |
|
You might think that for a guy who doesn't really believe in Evil, Plotinus would be pretty lax on moral scruples. But no, quite the opposite, he's quite rigid about combatting the Evil that doesn't exist through purification and imitation of the Gods (rather than good men). I wonder how you make sense of this? I guess in The Matrix the heroes only learn to fight the system after they realise that it's an illusion to begin with.
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 11:45 |
Prurient Squid posted:You might think that for a guy who doesn't really believe in Evil, Plotinus would be pretty lax on moral scruples. But no, quite the opposite, he's quite rigid about combatting the Evil that doesn't exist through purification and imitation of the Gods (rather than good men). I wonder how you make sense of this? I guess in The Matrix the heroes only learn to fight the system after they realise that it's an illusion to begin with.
|
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 14:06 |
|
Prurient Squid posted:You might think that for a guy who doesn't really believe in Evil, Plotinus would be pretty lax on moral scruples. But no, quite the opposite, he's quite rigid about combatting the Evil that doesn't exist through purification and imitation of the Gods (rather than good men). I wonder how you make sense of this? I guess in The Matrix the heroes only learn to fight the system after they realise that it's an illusion to begin with. Think about negation. If you have love and you negate it -not love that’s something to fight and also nothing. Or if you have love but part of the love is selfish is -not love and love like a diced up mixture. Nothingness is often equated to complete despair. An absence of anything to be for. No light in the darkness.
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 16:55 |
|
I don't believe in Cold but still heat my apartment
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 17:04 |
|
Prurient Squid posted:You might think that for a guy who doesn't really believe in Evil, Plotinus would be pretty lax on moral scruples. But no, quite the opposite, he's quite rigid about combatting the Evil that doesn't exist through purification and imitation of the Gods (rather than good men). I wonder how you make sense of this? I guess in The Matrix the heroes only learn to fight the system after they realise that it's an illusion to begin with. You could say hmm. I need to understand the reality of this situation... well, I'm going to deal with this through intellection. This is just particles and fields. Things existed in the past and will in the future. The same love that I have for my loved ones will continuously arise, again and again. The same pain as well. And that's good, if you can accept that fully with every fiber of your being. You could then calmly try to pull it out as quickly as possible. Most likely, you'd be more tied up with physical sensation, fears and drives, concern for loved ones, craving for good things. And you're wailing helplessly on the ground, miles from nowhere, as the poison continues to seep into you. There's a disconnect between your body, intellect, feelings, etc. there. A therapeutic process like Plotinus prescribes can help heal that. If you can't navigate the poison arrow situation skillfully, is that evil? Not really. We could also say that healing is good as shorthand, but it's beyond what we can conceive of as good with the poison clouding our judgement. Our world has narrowed down to the realities permitted by that situation. nice obelisk idiot fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 10, 2024 |
# ? Apr 10, 2024 18:07 |
|
Sorry, that's a little bleak. Mostly what people do as a therapeutic measure is to be around nice people and try to do good things. As opposed to say adopting an austere lifestyle inspired by neoplatonism. Social things can be profoundly healing, as the stuff we have going on good and bad is in others. And it's hard to love deeply while doing isolating things. But what works works imo.
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 20:26 |
|
Prurient Squid posted:You might think that for a guy who doesn't really believe in Evil, Plotinus would be pretty lax on moral scruples. But no, quite the opposite, he's quite rigid about combatting the Evil that doesn't exist through purification and imitation of the Gods (rather than good men). I wonder how you make sense of this? I took a look at Plotinus' entry on the Stanford website just to make sure I was on the right page before beginning this reply. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plotinus/ on Evil posted:Matter is only evil in other than a purely metaphysical sense when it becomes an impediment to return to the One. It is evil when considered as a goal or end that is a polar opposite to the Good. To deny the necessity of evil is to deny the necessity of the Good (I 8. 15). Matter is only evil for entities that can consider it as a goal of desire. These are, finally, only entities that can be self-conscious of their goals. Specifically, human beings, by opting for attachments to the bodily, orient themselves in the direction of evil. This is not because body itself is evil. The evil in bodies is the element in them that is not dominated by form. One may be desirous of that form, but in that case what one truly desires is that form’s ultimate intelligible source in Intellect. More typically, attachment to the body represents a desire not for form but a corrupt desire for the non-intelligible or limitless. And I was. Remember how you observed a while back that Plotinus was Egyptian and raised by his Egyptian mother? This all lays very neatly if you consider his philosophy from that Egyptian perspective (ma'at and isfet) rather than the more Christian/Abrahamic good and evil dichotomy you have in mind. Allow me to speak from the perspective of a person who follows that Egyptian philosophy. What another person may mean when they say "evil" may be described by this philosophy as "isfet." Isfet is chaos and disharmony, desires manifested by a heart which is not in line with the Divine good, the organizing principle of the universe, justice, harmony, and truth (ma'at). Isfet is taking more than you need when doing so means others go without. It is cutting the corner that makes your day easier even though that shortcut will make things harder for those around you. It is speaking words that are unfair or untrue, to make yourself feel better or to cut down someone else. Egyptian philosophy does not believe there is a source of evil outside of a spiritually deformed human heart, but that is not the same as not believing in the reality of it -- like Gaius Marius with that heat and cold example up there, I suppose. What the Egyptian philosophy does believe in is ma'at. Ma'at is a multivalent concept, as nebulously and expansively defined as the word "God" is in that Pagels excerpt I posted earlier. It is, as I said, truth, justice, order, and harmony; it is balance and right action; it is an ethos, it is a Deity, it is the material of the underlying Divine itself. It was every human's responsibility to not only establish but also maintain ma'at, to ensure that the actions of those who do not care about correct action and the Divine order, those more interested in the selfish satisfaction of isfet than practicing the philosophy of the Gods, do not overwhelm that balance and lead everyone to suffer. Ma'at is, singly and without exaggeration, the most important concept in the entire religious Egyptian mindset; Plotinus making great effort to express how important it is to behave in moral and ethical manners, despite a peculiar-appearing lack of belief in "evil" as an independent concept, tracks entirely. You observe some bemusement at Plotinus instructing his audience to behave not like good men, but like Gods. That also tracks. The Deities Themselves observe and uphold ma'at; and being Themselves Divine, why wouldn't They? Ma'at is called "the bread of the Gods"; when we act in harmony with the Divine interests we are performing acts of worship, we nourish Them even as we nourish ourselves and our world. Our "true identity," in Plotinus verbiage above, is itself Divine (see: what we perceive now as an Egyptian obsession with deification after death, in the light of being successful reconciliation to the Divine fold after death). Why would we emulate other humans to find our way back to the Ultimate, when what we search for is Divine, and our fellow humans are all still searching too?
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 20:30 |
|
nice obelisk idiot posted:Sorry, that's a little bleak. Mostly what people do as a therapeutic measure is to be around nice people and try to do good things. As opposed to say adopting an austere lifestyle inspired by neoplatonism. Social things can be profoundly healing, as the stuff we have going on good and bad is in others. And it's hard to love deeply while doing isolating things. But what works works imo. One of the most important aspects of most religious practice is that it is extremely social. How many different traditions have figured out a specific way to have a cup of tea or coffee together after the service?
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 20:32 |
|
|
# ? May 21, 2024 16:01 |
The sangha is one of the three jewels next to the Buddha and the dharma. We also have poisonous arrow stories
|
|
# ? Apr 10, 2024 20:47 |