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Poe players with thousands of hours melt down over the rhoas even though they are the gentlest roadblock at a stage in the game where you can only ever be inconvenienced by 30 seconds for dying even in hardcore
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Apr 9, 2024 23:05
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Cerepol posted:what do you think I'm imagining? Saying i enjoy d3 doesn't mean i need another then just play ssf. having chase uniques isnt some special invention they came up with because its f2p or whatever youre talking avbout thats just how arpgs work. how many tyreal's mights have you dropped? are they rare because d2 is a f2p always online mp game or because its an arpg and ppl like chase uniques and rare drops? is d2 unfun ssf because there are uniques that are a 1 in 500,000+ drop rate? just coming up with a conclusion and then working backwards even if it makes absolutely no sense at all.
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Apr 9, 2024 23:10
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Stux posted:i t is fun seeing completely deranged takes on what different games are tho. v funny to imagine poe as a typical f2p treadmill game when its just a normal arpg except act 1 and 2 involve the developers caving your skull in repeatedly with rhoas etc making it completely hostile to new players, while d3 is a "journey" and not an frictionless treadmill designed exactly like progression in a f2p game but stuck inside a normal game for some reason i am really confused at your readings of my posts tbqh PoE is probably the hardest of the current arpg campaigns out there, is that a controversial opinion? PoE is fairly hostile to new players, its got so many systems built in and a specific glossary for how to read it's gems, affixes, passives. Its very rewarding if you stick with it but it's not hard to create a character which requires a bunch of respecs and orbs to fix up to continue progressing. It is easier if you follow a starter guide ofc D3 is pretty frictionless, not really sure how that makes it a f2p game progression or not a journey? Its very guided but that's fine for a game going for mass appeal. Lost Ark is much more the typical f2p progression i think your talking about and that's to get you to a wall with monetization
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Apr 9, 2024 23:11
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Stux posted:then just play ssf. having chase uniques isnt some special invention they came up with because its f2p or whatever youre talking avbout thats just how arpgs work. how many tyreal's mights have you dropped? are they rare because d2 is a f2p always online mp game or because its an arpg and ppl like chase uniques and rare drops? i do pay ssf, i am simply saying i would enjoy seeing the rare treats myself i am well aware this exists in D2, that doesn't have to make it an immutable fact of the genre for offline players i think i was unclear where i criticized PoE due to the f2p model. Due to being f2p and always online i can never mod myself a version that is more enjoyable for me solo. I can do this is D2 quite easily. It is also unlikely they will ever release the server code so PoE will be stuck as an online only game with insane drop rates. Stux posted:is d2 unfun ssf because there are uniques that are a 1 in 500,000+ drop rate? just coming up with a conclusion and then working backwards even if it makes absolutely no sense at all. Last Epoch for its issues clearly acknowledged this with the Trade/Drop factions, its just a worse game then poe. Either way this is mostly a want because I've sunk 10000 hours into D2 & PoE I should note i guess im not exactly demanding anything here, i thought we're discussing game design for arpgs and i understand the desire and want for games with trading
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Apr 9, 2024 23:24
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Cerepol posted:i am really confused at your readings of my posts tbqh   
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Apr 9, 2024 23:26
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Cerepol posted:i do pay ssf, i am simply saying i would enjoy seeing the rare treats myself playing d2 offline so you can cheat the drop rates is hella cringe bro.
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Apr 9, 2024 23:30
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okay, so i guess I'm lost to how having a smoother experience or in game guides makes it less a journey or what that has to do with a death screen from poe. They are clearly working off different goals for player engagement. player discovery is less of a selling point these days and I'm not sure you can blame f2p games for it. in my anecdotal experience trying to get people into poe, its the main reason people bounce off, they don't want to be assed to get into it. publishers have been trying to ensure players can see 'all the content' for a long time now, especially for high budget games. i guess my embracing the cringe allows me to enjoy both style of game journeys? Stux posted:playing d2 offline so you can cheat the drop rates is hella cringe bro. my cringe level is off the charts because i prefer to enjoy my games tho speaking of cringe, i decided to try diablo immortal and the s4 improvements just seem like ideas from immortal lmao. it has the legendary codex that levels as you expect them and it has gear smithing that upgrades affixes at specific ranks
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Apr 9, 2024 23:45
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alirght youre just too stupid to have this convo with. good chat tho take it easy (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 9, 2024 23:54
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Stux posted:alirght youre just too stupid to have this convo with. good chat tho take it easy thats rude I am trying to understand you but its unclear from my point of view might be just too spectrum for this tho, everyone assumes im being facetious  i just dont like to assume what definitions everyone is working from
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Apr 10, 2024 00:06
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alas, ikaruga is going...
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Apr 10, 2024 00:17
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Cerepol posted:might be just too spectrum for this I know you're referring to the current back and forth specifically but this, in an arpg thread, struck me as very funny. stux strikes me as something of a purist for arpgs, not for games as they're presented but for the experience of smearing your face on demons until your soul is too weary of battle to even bother opening the cube to see what you can cram in it. I can understand this perspective pretty well. to that end taking measures to streamline or ease the grind is contrary to the point. the satisfaction from overcoming difficulty bumps and putting your character together bit by bit is the fun. so is blowing up a bazillion demons. but stux can obviously speak for their opinion if I'm off.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:21
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This is what mortals see when some wizard scries into another plane and glimpses the endless war between heaven and hell.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:46
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the grisliest realm of humanity: forums
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Apr 10, 2024 00:47
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Cerepol posted:the main issue imo is they lost the journey aspect, poe attempts to try and get up the journey thru the post campaign as well but ultimately as a f2p game it wants you to never stop playing and always chase that high. trying to keep it shrimple, twas this that i disagree so heartily with and was trying to demonstrate thaht the design chocies in poe are not based around its f2pness, as f2p games often seek to do this thru altoeghether different means such as a simple streamlined onboarding process for new players followed by a clear and delineated power curve with direct gains, thusly when they want to put the screws in for monetiszation they spike the numbers so that a very severe grind or payment is required to continue, with no alternate avenues for player power so as to stop people getting around it. d3 follows this process almost to the letter (mightve even invented it? no idea lol), even sharing the same visual design for stuff w games that use passes or other progression tracks, but doesnt have the last part due to not being f2p so its just sort of this progressional system without the nefarious end gmae. poe feels more like ppl who liked d2 decided to make d2 on crack and figured arpg players are so demented they would stick around and spend money on the game without doing that, so they could just put whatever horrible punishing content and byzantine mechanics they wanted in the game and not worry about scaring people off. poe monetization does actually sort of suck in a completely different way lol but its generally tolerated bcos it objectively has not led to the actual gameplay or design being warped in the way f2p games ofoten are, so it was strange to see the claim that thats what its trying to do. hope this makes it clearler.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:47
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Is loot filter in for season 4
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Apr 10, 2024 00:51
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flashman posted:Is loot filter in for season 4 No you just get less loot
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Apr 10, 2024 00:52
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That's ok too
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Apr 10, 2024 00:54
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Stux posted:trying to keep it shrimple, twas this that i disagree so heartily with and was trying to demonstrate thaht the design chocies in poe are not based around its f2pness, as f2p games often seek to do this thru altoeghether different means such as a simple streamlined onboarding process for new players followed by a clear and delineated power curve with direct gains, thusly when they want to put the screws in for monetiszation they spike the numbers so that a very severe grind or payment is required to continue, with no alternate avenues for player power so as to stop people getting around it. d3 follows this process almost to the letter (mightve even invented it? no idea lol), even sharing the same visual design for stuff w games that use passes or other progression tracks, but doesnt have the last part due to not being f2p so its just sort of this progressional system without the nefarious end gmae. poe feels more like ppl who liked d2 decided to make d2 on crack and figured arpg players are so demented they would stick around and spend money on the game without doing that, so they could just put whatever horrible punishing content and byzantine mechanics they wanted in the game and not worry about scaring people off. oh that is my mistake then, I was particularly unclear about how I think the PoE monetization works, its definitely interested in keeping you around as much as possible but not in service of getting you to spend money to keep the dopamine treadmill working, but because you might as well get some skill fx or w/e since you've already put so much time in and you're gonna see it for the next 100 hours. ofc my source on this is me, that time spent worked so well and i will not discuss how much money ive spent on poe or my cloth map of an atlas from several major reworks ago Though I honestly think its kinda ingenious to have stash tabs as a cheap 'break the barrier' mtx. It has been shown that paying once really eases one into then spending more down the line. Its why all the f2p games offer an extremely cheap 'starter package' PoE is absolutely the lovechild of people who thought 'what if my character building never had to end?' I only stopped playing as frequently because at a certain point i got addicted to PoB theorizing. I was not trying to call it predatory in the same way as mobile f2ps, more how it does have an incentive to keep you playing, which is a stated goal of the game anyways. Stux posted:d3 follows this process almost to the letter (mightve even invented it? no idea lol), even sharing the same visual design for stuff w games that use passes or other progression tracks, but doesnt have the last part due to not being f2p so its just sort of this progressional system without the nefarious end gmae. It is my understanding the seasonal journey pops up because the game got locked into Set Power and they were definitely not going to rework it post RoS. So if sets are how you can see the parts of the game players like, they speed you along to it fairly quickly. I think DFO/DnF probably did it first, though honestly can probably blame valve, the ideas they used in CS/Dota have become so widespread and toxic. Not really going to argue the visual aesthetics as that is just how it goes now, its become an understandable interface. Similar to how so many card games just be doing StS pick 3 and vertical node map.
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Apr 10, 2024 01:32
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Ehud posted:there has never been a good video game Link to the past
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Apr 10, 2024 03:36
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did blizz ever hire an endgame design lead like they were looking for for d4?
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Apr 10, 2024 04:02
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harrygomm posted:man this weeks gauntlet would be really interesting if there was an easy way to group. it's basically the kazhra dungeon that everyone liked to split farm in preseason or S1 idr. instead it's four wings with lots of walking/downtime in between each
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Apr 10, 2024 04:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:did blizz ever hire an endgame design lead like they were looking for for d4? They hired someone from this very thread but won't say who. You'll know who if it's bad.
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Apr 10, 2024 04:43
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I think for all D3's flaws compared to other ARPGs (endgame builds having to revolve around either full set bonuses or no sets at all for example), it does handle end game loot/power progression a lot better than the current DIV systems: - You get your set/complementary legos and bring the build online and start pushing into greater rifts - You start replacing them with Ancient versions, which allows you to push into higher greater rifts and get more paragon XP, blood shards, as well as access to a larger pool of legendaries from RG drops - You start picking up better-rolled versions of ancients and primals if you decide to keep going - paragon, legendary Gem ranks, stat breakpoints, enchanting rerolls and augments mean that even if the RNG screws you over for a while, you're always getting power boosts from somewhere. You can quit and play something else/try a different build/roll another class at any point if it gets tiresome, but there's generally a linear progression all the way up to GR150 if you want there to be. D4 currently has a number of brick walls that require you to beat some pretty awful RNG odds to see the same sort of continual improvement beyond a few hours into WT4, and there's not a great deal to do with it anyway. Hopefully the new systems and pit will bring things a bit closer. There's a lot I do prefer about the DIV systems, build variety and the aspect system especially.
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Apr 10, 2024 06:15
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not directed at anyone in particular, but these essays on the state of D4 could easily be skipped by watching any footage of the PTR - like literally the poo poo ya'll are bitching about has been addressed, it's done, fixed, it'll be live soon the only one that isn't is 'piles more endgame content please' which, ya know, takes time - conveniently we have an expansion soon too!
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Apr 10, 2024 11:34
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victrix posted:not directed at anyone in particular, but these essays on the state of D4 could easily be skipped by watching any footage of the PTR - like literally the poo poo ya'll are bitching about has been addressed, it's done, fixed, it'll be live soon
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Apr 10, 2024 12:43
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Blue Raider posted:Link to the past poo poo you got me
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Apr 10, 2024 13:20
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An Actual Princess posted:wanting matchmaking in a diablo is so alien to me In D2 you joined games that you knew had other people in them. It wasn’t matchmaking per se but matchmaking in that sense wasn’t necessary because the entire game was playing with other people, unless you were playing in offline mode. What’s alien is a Diablo where the vast majority of the time you spend playing you never see another person. It’s even weirder that it’s an online-only game and that’s the case.
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Apr 10, 2024 14:04
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How do you folks deal with the final room in vaults and maintain enough wardings to open those chests? I've managed to keep enough to open a couple but that felt more like happenstance than an active effort on my part. I find it really hard to see the traps going off among the horde of enemies. A lot of visual clutter that's hard to parse.
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Apr 10, 2024 14:05
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Jimbot posted:How do you folks deal with the final room in vaults and maintain enough wardings to open those chests? I've managed to keep enough to open a couple but that felt more like happenstance than an active effort on my part. I find it really hard to see the traps going off among the horde of enemies. A lot of visual clutter that's hard to parse. I just take 4x10 stacks, and that's usually plenty. I believe you get 3 pearls for finishing a vault, and I have over 100 at this point so I'm not going to run out before the season ends.
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Apr 10, 2024 14:09
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I usually take 3x10 myself and that's plenty. If I'm doing a really high nightmare level I might take more. And I still still seem to be very net positive in Pearls, I have over 1,200 as of writing this. As far as the end rooms themselves, each one usually has a spot you can stand that's mostly safe. Sometimes you have to break a pillar trap or whatever to reveal it, and sometimes your spot might fill up with AOE junk. That's when I book it across the room to the same safe spot on the other side. It's very very very rare that I take so many trap hits that I can't open all the chests.
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Apr 10, 2024 14:16
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the vaults are always the same, just remember where the traps are
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Apr 10, 2024 14:18
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An Actual Princess posted:wanting matchmaking in a diablo is so alien to me I wonder if anything is different between Diablo and Diablo 4 that would make matchmaking seem more appropriate
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Apr 10, 2024 14:32
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Jimbot posted:How do you folks deal with the final room in vaults and maintain enough wardings to open those chests? I've managed to keep enough to open a couple but that felt more like happenstance than an active effort on my part. I find it really hard to see the traps going off among the horde of enemies. A lot of visual clutter that's hard to parse. You can keep tapping the vault tower for more tokens of warding.
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Apr 10, 2024 15:02
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Wrex Ruckus posted:I just take 4x10 stacks, and that's usually plenty. I believe you get 3 pearls for finishing a vault, and I have over 100 at this point so I'm not going to run out before the season ends. Mustached Demon posted:You can keep tapping the vault tower for more tokens of warding. Wow, I'm days old when I learned this. Been conditioned by regular shrine usage I didn't think to try it multiple times. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Apr 10, 2024 16:17
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Don Dongington posted:I think for all D3's flaws compared to other ARPGs (endgame builds having to revolve around either full set bonuses or no sets at all for example), it does handle end game loot/power progression a lot better than the current DIV systems: linear progression is boring and dull. rng drops are fun.
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Apr 10, 2024 20:09
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Jimbot posted:How do you folks deal with the final room in vaults and maintain enough wardings to open those chests? I've managed to keep enough to open a couple but that felt more like happenstance than an active effort on my part. I find it really hard to see the traps going off among the horde of enemies. A lot of visual clutter that's hard to parse. I just shove myself against the door to the vault room and stay there, or find a spot away from any traps. There is usually a few, its really easy to go in with just 10 wardings and not lose any of them.
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Apr 10, 2024 20:11
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I absolutely loathed dealing with traps so I just ran standard NMDs and felt like it was completely fine, even if the loot pinata was not as exciting. I could get them done just as fast so I didnt see the point in dealing with traps.
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Apr 10, 2024 21:05
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You can also ignore the traps
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Apr 10, 2024 21:25
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I waited until they patched vaults so you could ignore the traps and then leveled all the way to 100 playing only a single NMD
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Apr 10, 2024 21:27
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Tiny Timbs posted:I waited until they patched vaults so you could ignore the traps and then leveled all the way to 100 playing only a single NMD I’m hoping that they’ll retain the vaults as a feature moving forward, but I doubt they will. At any rate, this season was apparently all about improving the NMD experience, and I think they succeeded. Hopefully next season’s focus on helltide is similarly successful.
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Apr 10, 2024 21:31
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