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Dapper_Swindler posted:so why does gary suck so much? is he supposed to suck or is it just the writer doesnt get characters. Its been a long time since I've watched it but I remember he was utterly annoying and a weird creep. As others have said he does that thing where he decides "This female character is the love of my life" and pursues her relentlessly even when she shows no interest in him and rebuffs him. Yeah, he is optimistic, but its in a manic pixie dream boy kind of way cranked up to an extreme degree. Even though I don't remember why he was jailed I do remember feeling like it was completely justified and he was the source of a lot of the plot conflicts because of "whoops how clumsy of me" or something like that. I genuinely felt that if you removed him or fundamentally changed his character there was a good show there. But in my opinion it was garbage because he was in it. Edit: I guess it should say something that a show that I watched a season of a decade or whatever ago has such a knee jerk reaction to that character.
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Apr 11, 2024 06:41
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The comedy with the main character would be fine, and in fact exactly what could give contrast to the horror, but he's not clever or genuinely funny, he's more hyperactive random. He's the Chris Pratt character from Parks & Rec on a sugar high.
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Apr 11, 2024 09:35
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That one scene I alluded to earlier is almost the perfect distillation of the weird dichotomy of tones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j10762cKjIQ Flippant comedy from Gary offsetting and leavening deeply unsettling existential non-euclidean horror. The family tragedy around Avocato/Little Cato. Gorgeous animation and directing and world design against ... whatever they were going for with the flat cartoony character styles. Gary's constant stream of trying-to-point-out-the-absurd-and-defuse-the-tension patter is the kind of thing the other characters should eventually just smack him upside the head over but they never do. Plus he shouldn't be in a leadership position because he's the least knowledgeable and serious character in the show and yet everyone just defers to him until he's the Chosen One, I wonder why. I mean I guess Godspeed might just as well be exactly the kind of redesign and recentering of tone that it needs if Rogers wanted to take another run at telling the same exact story? Data Graham fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 10:30
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limp_cheese posted:Even though I don't remember why he was jailed I do remember feeling like it was completely justified and he was the source of a lot of the plot conflicts because of "whoops how clumsy of me" or something like that. He stole an infinity guard ship to try to impress Quinn and blew up a bunch of them by accident. I think why I actually kinda like Gary (other than that I'm still somewhat vulnerable to lolrandom or "that just happened" kinda humor) is that he's the opposite of me; While he's trying to make lemons into lemonade, I'm turning lemonade into lemons. I also felt like the supporting cast made up for any flaws in Gary specifically.
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Apr 11, 2024 13:08
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Data Graham posted:That one scene I alluded to earlier is almost the perfect distillation of the weird dichotomy of tones: yeah, i can see it. Like i am a sucker for the starlord type space hero guy because i love those 3 movies and i think its fun archatype. but you need good writing to pull it off and to know when to to have the character either shut up or get serious. idk i al so kinda just done with the trying-to-point-out-the-absurd-and-defuse-the-tension patter type poo poo. I dont mind it when its done well or fits the tone or character but like gently caress i am loving tired of whedon poo poo. its why if i have to pick types of super hero movie style writing, ill take gunn any day because at least he knows when to do different kinds of humor and mostly make characters do "realistic" reactions that arnt just banter.
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Apr 11, 2024 13:31
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Data Graham posted:That one scene I alluded to earlier is almost the perfect distillation of the weird dichotomy of tones: Godspeed looks like it's going to be basically a much more serious season 4 of Final space in all but name without Gary (who seems to be MIA). So it's not so much retelling the story as it is finishing the one he started. Open Source Idiom posted:I think it's an absolute dire shame what happened to the production though. I will never not be mad about a show getting memory-holed like that no matter how bad/good it is. All art has social and historical value and it should always be made available to see in some form.
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Apr 11, 2024 14:39
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Data Graham posted:That one scene I alluded to earlier is almost the perfect distillation of the weird dichotomy of tones: The problem with this conceit, and part of the reason why I think people who dislike the show come down against it so hard, is that this is a really, really tired trope. Animated shows starring a naive protagonist that needs to grow up and contrasts comedy with existential horror are pretty common and not even exclusive to adult cartoons now. It it worth checking out? Probably definitely worth a shot, there's a lot of animation and incredible performances. But it doesn't stack up to something like Centaurland, which succeeda everywhere Final Space failed and the villian is, not coincidentally, the kind of character someone like Gary becomes in real life.
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Apr 11, 2024 15:41
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Up to date on Royal Crackers. It's very very good, particularly the second season. It does the kind of lore stuff you'd sort of expect in one of these cartoons, but the second season has really doubled down on doing character based short stories with a lot of the expected humour, but with a surprising amount of heart. It's very good. The prison girlfriend one in particular really surprised me.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:10
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Bifner McDoogle posted:The problem with this conceit, and part of the reason why I think people who dislike the show come down against it so hard, is that this is a really, really tired trope. Animated shows starring a naive protagonist that needs to grow up and contrasts comedy with existential horror are pretty common and not even exclusive to adult cartoons now. It's like, they wanted to do all this serious drama and worldbuilding and storytelling, but the show is billed as a comedy. So where does the humor come from unless you designate one character as the sacrificial comic relief and just have him constantly skewering everything? Any reason he can't be the protagonist too? Rhetorical question(s) because plenty of shows manage it just fine. Centaurworld is a great example as you said (especially given the POV character's growth arc). Hazbin/Helluva too. It's definitely possible to have the entire cast be sources of funny stuff in their own way, or the humor come from situational stuff or character interplay or a million other things, not just have it all concentrated in one guy who is just keeping up a running commentary on how weird everything is and everyone else has got to be rolling their eyes and gritting their teeth at just as much as Gary does toward KVN throughout the whole thing (which is a bit of a lol of a microcosm of the show's whole dynamic, huh).
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Apr 11, 2024 16:21
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There were definitely other comic relief characters on Final Space.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:38
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Gary got the broad, obvious, genre jokes, but just off the top of my head, KVN, Clarence, Fox, Ash, the Dewinter family.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:49
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Fuckin Tribor...
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Apr 11, 2024 16:57
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Bifner McDoogle posted:The problem with this conceit, and part of the reason why I think people who dislike the show come down against it so hard, is that this is a really, really tired trope. Animated shows starring a naive protagonist that needs to grow up and contrasts comedy with existential horror are pretty common and not even exclusive to adult cartoons now. Lets do Centaurworld, except make comfortable doug the main character
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Apr 11, 2024 18:23
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As much as I peaced out of Final Space because the main character was a bit of a dud, I do think it is overall better at humor and writing than Hazbin/Helluva by leaps and bounds.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:34
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I know people are hyped about X-men but I don't really understand all these calls to revive the old Spider-man show, it was always the cartoon I had to settle for when DCAU stuff was not on.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:35
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khwarezm posted:I know people are hyped about X-men but I don't really understand all these calls to revive the old Spider-man show, it was always the cartoon I had to settle for when DCAU stuff was not on. It was a psuedo-episodic show that ended on a cliffhanger.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:37
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I wonder whatever happened to the Mission Hill spinoff that was announced at some point.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:38
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Honestly I think I would have preferred if the X-men show was its own thing unconnected to the 90s cartoon because its leaps and bounds better and feels like its mostly trying to use nostalgia as the hook to get people watching at all. It also probably says something about how these sorts of shows are really not aimed at kids at all anymore, as if a 10 year old is going to have any nostalgia for X-men 97 compared to the 35 year old shut in.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:39
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The Last Ronin is getting a movie adaptation it seems (which would make it the first R rated Turtles film) https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-last-ronin-movie-1235871493/ It’s gonna be live action unfortunately but maybe they can still make it work Larryb fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 20:43
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Is there an X-Men 97 thread? Seems weird I haven’t seen anyone talking about it, it’s stellar!
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Apr 12, 2024 02:25
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Kermit The Grog posted:Is there an X-Men 97 thread? Seems weird I haven’t seen anyone talking about it, it’s stellar! People are mostly talking about it over in the Comic Book Animation thread in BSS https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3784240
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Apr 12, 2024 02:27
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Kermit The Grog posted:Is there an X-Men 97 thread? Seems weird I haven’t seen anyone talking about it, it’s stellar! It is also being talked about in the Marvel TV/Disney Plus TVIV thread
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Apr 12, 2024 02:27
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it has a dedicated thread in GBS that has been pretty active: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4056798&pagenumber=1&perpage=40
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Apr 12, 2024 03:01
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Picking up where a show left off to the point of making it a period piece probably has its advantages; saves on setup and lets you get right into the action, and you can advertise your back catalogue. The kids don't care if a show is old as long as it's still fun, and X-Men has always had the banger theme tune, over the top characters and giant robots getting wrecked. I do wonder if we can blame X-Men TAS for all the shows and anime dubs that gave the cast really bad over the top accents.
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Apr 12, 2024 08:18
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Grimsburg continues to improve, I hope it gets a chance to keep going.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:11
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Neeksy posted:Grimsburg continues to improve, I hope it gets a chance to keep going. It was renewed for a second season
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Apr 13, 2024 00:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I do wonder if we can blame X-Men TAS for all the shows and anime dubs that gave the cast really bad over the top accents. Not really. Contemporaneously 90s media was just more comfortable and into playing around with accents, especially in cartoons, as opposed to now when most media has really flattened everything out and everybody gets anxious about people talking different. I think in Japan they still feel comfortable playing around with accents, which makes dubbing have to either ignore that aspect or get creative to replicate it. The linguistic diversity of the show almost makes up for the fact that while most incarnations of the team since 1975 made a point of the team being international, whereas the 92 show ends up with just a bunch of Americans. Granted they're from all over America, California, Alaska, Canada, New York, Louisiana, Georgia.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:14
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Something I was just thinking about, in light of how things like 80s and 70s anime or 40s and 50s Hollywood animated shorts have a ton of retro and historic appeal, are there any 70s and early 80s American television cartoons that are actually, like... good? (I'm being kind to things like Transformers to specify early 80s lol) I hate to sound like an rear end in a top hat for stuff people put work into but whenever I see cartoons from that era it just seems like it was an absolute nadir for the entire field of animation and there was no space for anyone to do anything interesting, none of the shows from that era seem to be remembered today for their actual qualities.
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Apr 13, 2024 13:37
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Jesus Christ the new X-Men is horny as hell magneto why are you wearing what looks like a sleeveless dress with arm length gloves to your trial for crimes against humanity
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Apr 13, 2024 14:28
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Benagain posted:Jesus Christ the new X-Men is horny as hell magneto why are you wearing what looks like a sleeveless dress with arm length gloves to your trial for crimes against humanity Because he’s a ten and you fives need to sit down and listen when a ten is speaking.
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Apr 13, 2024 14:29
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Benagain posted:Jesus Christ the new X-Men is horny as hell magneto why are you wearing what looks like a sleeveless dress with arm length gloves to your trial for crimes against humanity It's what he wore in the comics during that story. So, I guess they just decided to keep the design as horny as it may be. In fact, they've kept a lot of the inherent lewdness of the comics which is pretty funny. Maddie just going full Goblin Queen with the same low cut leotard and cape was hilarious. 
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Apr 13, 2024 14:31
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khwarezm posted:Something I was just thinking about, in light of how things like 80s and 70s anime or 40s and 50s Hollywood animated shorts have a ton of retro and historic appeal, are there any 70s and early 80s American television cartoons that are actually, like... good? (I'm being kind to things like Transformers to specify early 80s lol) I would argue Ducktales, Inspector Gadget, Rescue Rangers, and Heathcliff were legitimately good shows. I would also personally put Beetlejuice (right?) and The Super Mario Bros Super Show on that list. They were great for what they were.
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Apr 13, 2024 14:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:Because he’s a ten and you fives need to sit down and listen when a ten is speaking. Storm: "I'm an eleven, but okay."
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Apr 13, 2024 14:38
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AlternateNu posted:I would argue Ducktales, Inspector Gadget, Rescue Rangers, and Heathcliff were legitimately good shows. Most of these are late 80s though, you know? Things were starting to pick up and leading into the 90s being probably the best decade of American animation since the rise of television. I just think that the 70s in particular leading into the early 80s was such a dead zone, like almost a bit depressing how low quality and disposable the stuff being made was.
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Apr 13, 2024 14:41
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khwarezm posted:Most of these are late 80s though, you know? Things were starting to pick up and leading into the 90s being probably the best decade of American animation since the rise of television. Fair. That still gives you Heathcliff, at least.
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Apr 13, 2024 15:09
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Yeah if you go looking before the 80s animation boom, there's mostly just not very much stuff to look through in general.khwarezm posted:Something I was just thinking about, in light of how things like 80s and 70s anime or 40s and 50s Hollywood animated shorts have a ton of retro and historic appeal, are there any 70s and early 80s American television cartoons that are actually, like... good? (I'm being kind to things like Transformers to specify early 80s lol) It really depends on your individual tastes and your mood, but there's definitely plenty out there that you can watch or have fun with. I've heard from people who go through the original first season of Scooby Doo and had fun with it. There's a lot of Trek fans who still support the 1974 animated series. Last year I watched through a good chunk of the Flintstones, and it was okay, but also historically interesting as well. For something lesser known, I found and watched Where's Huddles recently when exploring Hanna-Barbera's catalogue, and it was surprisingly good and even very visually interesting for a 1970 show. I think the biggest problem with 60s-70s cartoons is that the the way that the production companies went is that most anything that was ever good was eventually run into the ground, copied endlessly, and then cut up and reassembled into new blocks of television as the companies really stretched everything out. For any successful idea Hanna-Barbera had, they tried doing it over again it like 5 times. Wading through their animal mascot shorts can be harrowing, because there's so drat many characters that keep trying to hammer down on repeating a lot of the same ideas with extremely minor variations. Of interest might be the mudlarking thread, although over there a lot of people focus on 80s-90s shows just because there's so many more of them and they're so much more visually interesting, especially as the Japanese animation boom bled over into America and TMS made even utter trash look great.
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Apr 13, 2024 15:51
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khwarezm posted:Most of these are late 80s though, you know? Things were starting to pick up and leading into the 90s being probably the best decade of American animation since the rise of television. There are good character designs for Thundaar and some of the other Hanna-Barbera shows of that time. Blackstar and He-Man had good designs too. It’s just that all the actual animation is cut-rate garbage.
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Apr 13, 2024 18:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah if you go looking before the 80s animation boom, there's mostly just not very much stuff to look through in general. I sort of find the year 1970 itself to be a cutoff point, before that there's something to say about some of the shows they made even though you can absolutely see the limitations they were working under, so things like the Flintstones or whatever were much more script focused. Scooby-Doo's original run ended in 1970 I think? Afterward the cookie cutter nature of these shows, lack of budget and seemingly near total lack of effort and passion really shines through, you see something like The Roman Holidays and its painfully obvious it was just running the Jetsons/Flintstones format even further into the ground. The superhero shows like The New Adventures of Batman or Superfriends just don't seem to have anything to them, even compared to the shoestring budgets earlier series based on the same characters had, its kind of amazing to watch this stuff in terms of just how hollow it all seems, and the fact that tv animation went from this to things like BTAS in the space of about a decade is even more amazing. One of the things that prompted me to ask about this was the show Wait Till Your Father Gets Home, which I find kind of fascinating as an attempt to make a primetime animated sitcom not directed at kids with no standards, and accordingly had a little bit more effort put into things like voice acting, animation and the script than you otherwise saw. Not that I'd say it really holds up still, the canned laughter is especially badly aged, but some of the scenes are interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4jBnFL8naE
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Apr 13, 2024 19:54
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khwarezm posted:I sort of find the year 1970 itself to be a cutoff point, before that there's something to say about some of the shows they made even though you can absolutely see the limitations they were working under, so things like the Flintstones or whatever were much more script focused. Scooby-Doo's original run ended in 1970 I think? I wanna say that clip is a fandub even though I know it's real. Holy poo poo is that clip wild.
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Apr 13, 2024 20:58
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I will say that The Flintstones definitely started out targeted more towards adults rather than children, especially with the original themes of an arguing married couple worrying about adultery and the adults who are constantly short on cash and trying to live beyond their means. It's just that eventually later on they expanded their demographic by adding Pebbles and Bam-Bam, and that ended up a gateway fully into being kids' stuff, and they switched sponsors from cigarettes and alka-seltzer to grape juice and peanut butter. I think children as a target market demographic took a fairly long while to fully manifest as a thing advertisers and companies really went after, and I'm not really sure why. Teenagers I think started existing as an acknowledged thing and target demographic a bit earlier, I think more companies believed in them as having money they could spend. I think also Japanese animation jumping on the idea of advertising to children was one of the reasons they climbed ahead of American animation. I'm not really sure why original TV animation seems to slump from even its relatively low height in the 70s. My instinct is maybe the glut of theatrical animation flooding the market after the final demise of almost all the big theatrical animation companies (or rather big movie studios shuttering their animation divisions and selling off the libraries). I think there was some kind of legal regulation in America against advertising directly to children, but I can't really find something specific. I did find some mentions of an advocacy group that worked to ban violent cartoons and claimed credit for shutting down a bunch of superhero stuff? But yeah looking through lists of TV cartoons that were made in the 70s, so many of them I've never even heard of. One that did jump out at me if you're looking for old adult-focused cartoons is the 1975 Return to the Planet of the Apes, by DePatie-Freleng. The entire Planet of the Apes movie franchise is just one of the darkest movie series ever, and the cartoon was made after the plans for a live-action TV series fell through, much like how the Star Trek Animated Series came about. It's all on Youtube.
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Apr 13, 2024 21:58
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