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Comics do go in cycles
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Apr 11, 2024 14:24
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Anyway, Ms. Marvel continues to be a fun book and I hope the writing team can get an ongoing instead of just mini series. Though I suppose it depends on Vellani's availability.
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Apr 11, 2024 14:34
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Codependent Poster posted:Anyway, Ms. Marvel continues to be a fun book and I hope the writing team can get an ongoing instead of just mini series. Though I suppose it depends on Vellani's availability. Her playing along with Lila was great. More of this please.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:08
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That Magneto does appear older, but it's hard to tell just from the image if that will be a major plot point or if it's just the design the artist went with. Either way, I don't find it to be a very big deal. I think Magneto's new philosophy is more important to the story in Resurrection than his physical age, even if the latter helps support the former. I could also see that new design working with a steely, old-man strength, which would be a different but not incompatible direction from Ewing's story. The chair seems more "dramatic throne" than mobility aid. Regardless, I trust McKay, and doubt he will be completely disregarding what Ewing did at a narrative level. There's always going to be a few cracks between runs, even when both are well written. Best to accept they are different stories, and judge them on their own terms before comparing them to old stories, at least initially. Ms. Marvel was great. Vellani did a great job of writing Lila Cheney, and spoofing tiktok culture.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:20
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It is always an interesting subject, I was just reading a reddit thread about the Marvel aging stuff. A lot of fans have very specific explanations, which I guess were mentioned in a couple official places or extrapolated on. Stuff like well the Richards kid is making everyone age slow, stuff like that. To me I just look at it as halfway to The Simpsons or Archie, it's okay that characters mostly stopped aging. I just don't want to get rid of the variety we have, we need some characters being a bit older than others, like Xavier and Magneto. It just seems a bit dreary and action figure-esque if every character needs to be this prime 30 something in body or whatever. And I think there's a trend to want to overexplain this stuff. Like people ask how it makes sense if a war from many decades ago is in somebody's backstory, to me it's just well, it's self explanatory. The comics started then and referenced recent things, then they evolved into being a much slower and ultimately static thing where main characters aren't aging. Unless they were under 20 and the story wants them to reach the 20s etc. It's fine with me, keep it loose, over-examining and explaining this stuff is not needed.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:41
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I am in theory fine with a Simpsons-style status quo but it does get kind of weird when some characters age and some don't, especially when it connects to how they interact with other people. At best you get the weirdness of like a teen hero's best friend now being a 20-something and at worst you get "Kitty Pride is how old again" when she's having a relationship with someone.' I honestly think Simpsons-style works for some stuff but when you have a school full of teenagers who graduate and move on and are now the same age as their teachers or Batman somehow having 5-6 different sidekicks, several of whom have grown up and moved on to their own things, it becomes distracting At least Krakoa ended up making every mutant's age "how the gently caress do you figure this out from clone brains and bodies?" ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 17:50
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Is it possible the new artist just genuinely didn't know what was going to happen with Ewing's story? I wouldn't put it past editorial to just not share important information like that but I don't really know if that's plausible at all Also is Magneto still a holocaust survivor because we're getting to the point where that's already stretching credibility lol
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Apr 11, 2024 17:57
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Also is Magneto still a holocaust survivor because we're getting to the point where that's already stretching credibility lol Yes, it's critical to his backstory and also part of why they keep loving with his age.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:10
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I don't think they need to, he met the X-Men over 60 years ago, and all the stories had trappings of the time they were made. The housekeeping retcons about this stuff only make it more bizarre, I like just accepting it evolved over time and has some historical mementos. It would be easier to put that in a Marvel encyclopedia guide than the wild explanations they come up with. I was reading that Mark Waid history of the Marvel Universe thing, then halfway through I was like wait a minute, this sucks. This housekeeping retcon stuff, it's not the most interesting way to approach this stuff to me. Just let it be anachronistic.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:17
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If we kept Magneto at the age he was supposed to be we wouldn't have Magneto anymore.Heavy Metal posted:I was reading that Mark Waid history of the Marvel Universe thing, then halfway through I was like wait a minute, this sucks. This housekeeping retcon stuff, it's not the most interesting way to approach this stuff to me. Just let it be anachronistic. Objectively wrong, that series is awesome.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:18
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They should just do some variant of the Austin Powers backstory where he gets shot into space for X decades while Xavier puts himself on ice in case he ever comes back. Maybe he can stumble onto Asteroid M while loving about out there.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:21
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Now that's pretty good.X-O posted:
Well, I get you're having fun there, my take is totally cool and good. And I've seen other folks find those retcons unnecessary and not great. X-O posted:If we kept Magneto at the age he was supposed to be we wouldn't have Magneto anymore. I don't see what you mean, we know how this stuff works at Marvel, sliding timescale or whatever explanation, why single out Mags?
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Apr 11, 2024 18:22
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Heavy Metal posted:I was reading that Mark Waid history of the Marvel Universe thing, then halfway through I was like wait a minute, this sucks. This housekeeping retcon stuff, it's not the most interesting way to approach this stuff to me. Just let it be anachronistic. all the siancong poo poo is really loving stupid
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Apr 11, 2024 18:24
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Have they not both gone through the Krakoa rebirth system at this point? "Their bodies are young and healthy, but retain some visual markers of aging due to their self-images." Now you're set for a good long while. If you wanted to be saucy you could even have this be a factor when Magneto next has a heel turn, because he's starting to get past the design lifetime of the human brain. (Then you can shake it off later: the design lifetime of the human brain, yes -- but what of the mutant brain?  )
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Apr 11, 2024 18:24
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Marvel stories take place in the now. You can't have a Holocaust Survivor as a superhero in the now anymore without some kind of explanation. So you either take Magneto out of the Holocaust (terrible idea) or you find a way to make him younger. Otherwise you have pretend your books are perpetually stuck in time.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:25
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Nessus posted:Have they not both gone through the Krakoa rebirth system at this point? "Their bodies are young and healthy, but retain some visual markers of aging due to their self-images." Now you're set for a good long while. uh no? it was very specifically a point that he rejected doing that
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Apr 11, 2024 18:27
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X-O posted:Marvel stories take place in the now. You can't have a Holocaust Survivor as a superhero in the now anymore without some kind of explanation. So you either take Magneto out of the Holocaust (terrible idea) or you find a way to make him younger. Otherwise you have pretend your books are perpetually stuck in time. I can appreciate there are different preferences and some fans like this sort of thing, some like a looser way of looking at this. I think kind of like mentioned earlier with DC, where they tried to be very specific and stuff like Batman mentoring half a dozen sidekicks in a 5 year career or whatever it was didn't add up. And with Marvel continuing to have these specific unneeded explanations and retcons, it makes it worse to me. The explanation is easy, comics have ties to when they were made, characters don't age much, there's a sliding timescale etc, and they just kind of dropped the aging idea. You can explain this in an official Marvel guide on one page and never have to worry about doing these retcons all the time. Every comic has ties to when it was made. The Dark Phoenix Saga clearly is in a world that is 1980-esque. I don't need to think of ok this saga actually happened in the 2010s and everyone was on the net with smartphones etc. It's okay that there are these anachronisms, I know how it works and I like it. The characters today can mention they went to a disco and I think that's fun and cool, it doesn't make me think they must be 60. If anything it's a bonus that they can pack extra history and culture into the lives of these characters. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 18:34
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In the coming years Magneto can be a Palestinian instead. Much more modern and hip genocide to have survived.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:38
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Heavy Metal posted:I can appreciate there are different preferences and some fans like this sort of thing, some like a looser way of looking at this. I think kind of like mentioned earlier with DC, where they tried to be very specific and stuff like Batman mentoring half a dozen sidekicks in a 5 year career or whatever it was didn't add up. And with Marvel continuing to have these specific unneeded explanations and retcons, it makes it worse to me. The problem with this view is they didn't drop the aging idea. And the character you're specifically talking about is much older than most other Marvel characters. Peter Parker has aged about 15 years since his first appearance. But his first appearance can float around because it's not tied to a specific event. So right now the spider could have bit him in 2009 or something and it works fine. But Magneto is tied to a specific real event that is kind of a major point in the Marvel universe that cannot be moved around because it's tied to a real world event. So the only way to make that work is to come up with a reason for it. You can't just be loose with Magneto. You can on many characters. That one you can't.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:40
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site posted:uh no? it was very specifically a point that he rejected doing that
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Apr 11, 2024 18:42
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X-O posted:The problem with this view is they didn't drop the aging idea. And the character you're specifically talking about is much older than most other Marvel characters. Peter Parker has aged about 15 years since his first appearance. But his first appearance can float around because it's not tied to a specific event. So right now the spider could have bit him in 2009 or something and it works fine. But Magneto is tied to a specific real event that is kind of a major point in the Marvel universe that cannot be moved around because it's tied to a real world event. So the only way to make that work is to come up with a reason for it. You can't just be loose with Magneto. You can on many characters. That one you can't. I don't see why we can't just have different preferences there, you say you just can't, but it doesn't seem like having these historical things and looking at it this way bothers everybody. I can get some people feel it should be explained to fit the way you do, but it isn't a thing where it must be that way necessarily. What is there to suggest they didn't drop the aging thing? Has Peter aged in the past 20 years of comics, as in they mention how old he is and the number is going up? I know some believe in the 1 Marvel year equals 4 real life years thing etc. But I think we can predict these characters like Spidey and Cyclops will be in use and never hit 50 in the coming century etc. I personally don't like the Spider bit him in 2009 thing, and I think reframing every previous story and removing the references to when it was originally made requires way more gymnastics than my way of looking at it. But it's nice that we each have a way that works for us. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 18:51
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I didn't read the last issue of Magneto's ressurection yet but I got the feeling he was younger when he popped back through Blue Marvel's gate, so that's another layer
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Apr 11, 2024 19:01
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I am assuming he's gone through the siege perilous before too. there's endless mcguffins
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Apr 11, 2024 19:11
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I'm not saying there's any hard date that says the spider but Peter in 2009. But if you extrapolate his age from when he was bitten to the fact that he was 15 when that happened and stories a decade ago around the time of Superior Spider-Man stuff mentioned it had been 13 years or so since then. So he's pushing 30 if not already over that. That tells you all you need to know to make the math work. For 99% of Marvel characters it's easy to let the age thing go because they are not tied to real world events that age them explicitly. A core part of Magneto's characterization is that he was a child during the Holocaust which is a real world event. That puts a date on him. At best he would have to have been born in the mid 1930s. He wasn't frozen in ice for some malleable amount of years like Captain America or Bucky. So if you're reading a comic book in 2024 and Magneto is not in his nineties then there has to be some other explanation. This is one character where there has to be some kind of in universe explanation for why he's not either dead or on the verge of being dead. Either that or you have to change his origin and that would be an awful thing to do since it's so central to his character.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:12
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Well, I don't agree, but I guess the way I'm putting it isn't getting across, it's cool, different takes. My main point is there are zillions of things that tie these comics to when they were made, and the lives of these Marvel characters spanning many decades of history and culture while they remain around the same age (at least as far as we can tell this century), it is a cool thing that does work. At least for me.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:17
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X-O posted:I'm not saying there's any hard date that says the spider but Peter in 2009. But if you extrapolate his age from when he was bitten to the fact that he was 15 when that happened and stories a decade ago around the time of Superior Spider-Man stuff mentioned it had been 13 years or so since then. So he's pushing 30 if not already over that. That tells you all you need to know to make the math work. For 99% of Marvel characters it's easy to let the age thing go because they are not tied to real world events that age them explicitly. I mean it's central to his character insomuch as Frank Castle being a Vietnam Vet is a major part of his character that has been updated over time to other horrible wars that America has been involved with. The Holocaust is absolutely a horrific act that it is able to be tied to a "this is an unforgivable thing that should never happen again" (despite what modern GOP politicians say) but it would be entirely valid to tell a Magneto story where he is the victim of a different real-world atrocity. It's an absolutely loving loaded choice to do so, of course, but that also is arguably why it might be worth doing in the hands of a good writer. A lovely writer would, of course, make an atrocity but hell, Clairmont introduced the idea of him being a Holocaust survivor several decades after the character first appeared and it defined the character. (I doubt it would ever happen outside of like maybe an Elseworld or Ultimate-style thing because it would be so loving loaded.)
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Apr 11, 2024 19:19
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Putting aside when universe-wide reality manipulation or reboots happened that might have massaged character's timelines and/or physical form, at this point in the narrative of the X-Men, Magneto's biography explicitly includes: 1. Being a young man in Auschwitz in the 1940s. 2. Doing a lot of other stuff over an indeterminate amount of time 3. Being de-aged into a baby by ALPHA, THE ULTIMATE MUTANT 4. Being re-aged to an adult using alien technology 5. Getting killed on the first Battleworld by Doctor Doom wielding Galactus and the Beyonder's power 6. Being resurrected using the same power by Reed Richards 7. Being killed by Rachel Summers using the Phoenix Force as she summoned power to recreate a Beyonder-free universe 8. Being resurrected by the same Phoenix Force 9. Getting apparently killed/mindwiped and then resurrected at least three times across the 1990s 10. Getting gutted by Wolverine and then having a mega-Sentinel blow him up in Genosha 11. Coming back and getting decapitated by Wolverine 12. Showing back up apparently fine, as Wolverine decapitated an imposter 13. Having his presumptive daughter warp reality to change the entire world, also implied to maybe have used her power to resurrect him from one or more of the deaths above, stripped of his powers by daughter 14. Apparently killed again by the collective force of all of the mutant powers that his presumptive daughter stripped from himself and thousands of other mutants 15. Back from the dead again, still depowered, re-powered up by the High Evolutionary and Celestial energy 16. His powers started fading again and he began using a bunch of Mutant Growth Hormone to re-power himself but it was killing him 17. The entire universe was destroyed and rebuilt by Franklin Richards, which apparently 'fixed' Magneto's powers and who knows what else 18. Then he was apparently killed again and sucked into a pocket universe created by Nate Grey, then eventually brought back to the 'real world'. All of that is before Krakoa, and while Magneto declared he would not be resurrected by the Five when he was on Arrako, he explicitly said he was willing to die (and be resurrected) for Krakoa in House of X, and I didn't go through all of the first phase of Krakoa books to confirm he was not. Then he died, and was in fact resurrected this month, just not by The Five. All of which is to say there's a whole lot of different ways that the Magneto floating around pre-Arrako death, never mind post-recent-resurrection could be a lot younger/healthier than his 100+ years ago birthday would suggest. The list is similarly long for Charles Xavier and just about any character you can think of. If you want to be extra skeptical, as real world time passes, there is a bigger and bigger gap between "a young Magneto escapes Auschwitz eighty years ago" and "an older Magneto attacks Cape Citadel and reveals himself to the public, 10-15 years ago", and strictly speaking Magneto has and will be a senior citizen for all of his early appearances following a strict timeline. That can be either ignored or addressed at some point, I don't really care. It would be yet another layer of the Ship of Theseus for most long-running characters.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:20
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He slowed his aging through the power of magnetism. Problem solved.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:20
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Yes there are things in the comics that tie the characters to the times of their production, but very few of them are core events that are vital to their characters. Spider-Man appeared on SNL in the '70s in one issue. OK, so if you ever needed to reference that for some reason it doesn't really matter how you reference it because it has very little effect on who Spider-Man is as a character or what he's done since. The same cannot be said for Magneto's ties to the Holocaust. It's not a trivial connection.Chinston Wurchill posted:He slowed his aging through the power of magnetism. Problem solved. Which is fine! It's wonky but it's fine. It's still an explanation, which is the point. There needs to be some reason, or a laundry list of reasons as E&C posted above, to make it credible. X-O fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 19:22
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Have we ever had a telekinetic pretending to be Magneto?
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Apr 11, 2024 19:23
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Harold Fjord posted:Have we ever had a telekinetic pretending to be Magneto? Xorn?
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Apr 11, 2024 19:25
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Talking about timelines reminds me that in the first or second issue of New Mutants, the team went to see ET at the mall. I'll just assume that was a nostalgia showing 
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Apr 11, 2024 19:44
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Beerdeer posted:Talking about timelines reminds me that in the first or second issue of New Mutants, the team went to see ET at the mall. I'll just assume that was a nostalgia showing The important thing is that Roberto has never lost his affection for Magnum, PI (even if he can't grow a mustache.)
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Apr 11, 2024 19:49
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ImpAtom posted:Xorn?  TBH never really felt like I understood what was going on with all that so that's probably why it sunk into the back of my mind like it did
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Apr 11, 2024 19:56
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rantmo posted:The important thing is that Roberto has never lost his affection for Magnum, PI (even if he can't grow a mustache.) And let's not forget Magik loves Garfield! Well Garfield is always in the zeitgeist. oh hey some news on the new Nyx book https://x.com/marvel/status/1778502416859529444?s=46 Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 19:56
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Heavy Metal posted:And let's not forget Magik loves Garfield! Well Garfield is always in the zeitgeist. Is NYX somehow short for Jersey City?
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Apr 11, 2024 20:35
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Veg posted:the art is so bad its making it hard to read It is very rough and maybe worst of all inconsistent. I feel like it’s worth plowing through but understand people for whom it’s not.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:46
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"Like the 2000s groundbreaking original series, NYX won’t shy away from reflecting the harsh realities of life" because what we want to see is Kamala begging for spare change or "spange" as it was called in NYX.
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Apr 11, 2024 21:17
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Harold Fjord posted:
There's nothing to understand: It was just Magneto. Corporate realized there isn't a "fun" way to ignore literal ovens to cremate New Yorkers in death camps, so then it wasn't Magneto after the story was over. They needed it to not be Magneto so it wasn't, and like 3 or 4 different explanations followed that basically amount to "Please forget this story and that it was Magneto we are moving on". None of them matter because nobody that wrote them gave a poo poo about them and they aren't supposed to be thought about. It's just Marvel going "Can we please move on?". Nature of the beast, not the first time it's happened and won't be the last.
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Apr 11, 2024 21:18
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Heavy Metal posted:And let's not forget Magik loves Garfield! Well Garfield is always in the zeitgeist. i saw a blond holding an ice cream cone and assumed it was Soft Serve, the mutant that poops ice cream. it being a cuckoo is much less interesting. as for holocaust chat, magneto's been through enough weird poo poo to justify his age a dozen times over. the one with a real problem is gabrielle haller. she was also a holocaust survivor, then met xavier and had david. so despite gabrielle being dead, now legion should be in his 60's.
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Apr 11, 2024 21:29
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