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Willatron posted:Yeah I guess this is really more my gripe with it then anything. Maybe they'll do it in flashbacks in season 2 or something, but writing out the NCR off screen like that doesn't sit right with me. NCR/Whole season stuff: They flat out said at the end that Ella's mom discovered that the vault was a lie, took Ella to Shady Sands, Hank got real mad and hunted her down, then went to the Vault-Tec nuclear stockpile and burned the NCR to the ground because it was a Vault-Tec competitor. It didn't decay, it didn't decline, it just got nuked again. Even Maximus was saying the bombs fell when he was a kid. Maybe they'll clarify in 2 that "Burned the NCR to the ground" didn't mean a single city, and he nuked Vault City/The Hub/Reno too.
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Apr 12, 2024 21:54
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The NCR wasn’t good people it was another neoliberal dump. Remember how hard it was to get a passport into the vault in fallout 2? It was making fun of America. Finishing episode 8 That was the joke of fallout 2
Rabid Snake fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 22:03
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Rabid Snake posted:The NCR wasn’t good people it was another neoliberal dump. Remember how hard it was to get a passport into the vault in fallout 2? It was making fun of America. Finishing episode 8 That was the joke of fallout 2 Sure but who was saying they were good guys? They were the closest thing to a superpower of the western wasteland, it's just weird to unceremoniously write them out off screen like they did is all I'm saying.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:10
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Willatron posted:Sure but who was saying they were good guys? I agee with you its the ending when the mom went to the NCR like they were the good guys Wish NCR had more
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Apr 12, 2024 22:13
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w0o0o0o posted:Spitballing a bit here but it felt to me like the three main characters represented different common playstyles in fallout games, all progressing through the same main questline: Norm and the low strength/high intelligence build Entorwellian fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 22:14
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Entorwellian posted:Norm and the low strength/high intelligence build Lmao yes
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Apr 12, 2024 22:15
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In the 23rd century, war was still waged over the resources that could be acquired. Only this time, the spoils of war were also its weapons: Alimony, and Child Support.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:20
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Willatron posted:
The end of the NCR is treated as about the 2nd largest world building/lore event by the show. Also the actual end of the NCR, as far as we know, happens in the very battle shown on screen.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:25
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Is Todd ever going to address the problem where this show contradicts my fanfiction, which I consider to be canon?
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Apr 12, 2024 22:45
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tough times out there for deranged fallout guys.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:54
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CainFortea posted:The end of the NCR is treated as about the 2nd largest world building/lore event by the show. Also the actual end of the NCR, as far as we know, happens in the very battle shown on screen. If you say so, my impression is the fall of the NCR was treated more like a footnote in Lucy's story. "Lucy's mom ran away to the NCR and her psycho dad got mad and nuke happy over it, this breaks Lucy's heart and makes her path uncertain going forward."* *Also the most powerful post-apocalypse civilization on the west coast was completely and utterly destroyed, the last vestiges go out in this gun fight, enjoy. I dunno, maybe I would've just preferred they made this story Fallout 5 or something so I could obsessively read hundreds of computer terminal entries about it like I usually consume Fallout lore. I really did like the show a lot though, this gripe is probably my only real one and I understand it's pretty subjective.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:03
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Willatron posted:[spoiler]If you say so, my impression is the fall of the NCR was treated more like a footnote in Lucy's story. "Lucy's mom ran away to the NCR and her psycho dad got mad and nuke happy over it, this breaks Lucy's heart and makes her path uncertain going forward."* That's kinda how it always was going to go Edit: For some reason I can't do spoilers.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:10
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Rewatching it again. I hope Coopers kid is okay Jesus Christ
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Apr 12, 2024 23:34
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For those of you wondering, drat near all the spoilers are about factions getting a kicking in some fashion or another. SHOW RUINING SPOILER: Didn't mention all of them.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:55
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boo boo bear posted:tough times out there for deranged fallout guys. Is No Mutants Allowed still a thing? I remember when they had breakdowns over, like, Fallout Tactics.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:15
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Admittedly, pretty much the big things that happen in the show are all lore/politics related anyway. I mean, if you cut the factions and politics out, you would have some people wandering around a bit. It is really who knows situation because it is the first season of the show. Admittedly, the show really needs a "good guy" faction because the BoS/Vault-Tec/Enclave/House etc are certainly not it. If anything, perhaps the NCR itself was always implicitly flawed, probably either needed a reboot, or something to replace it. Also, if anything, the show shows Sandy Sands as idyllic, and perhaps it was by 2281, but everything in NV showed a seriously corrupt system, and NCR was having some serious issues. You talk to the head of R & D at McCarren, and the guy is a total fraud and it doesn't seem to be an unique issue for the NCR. There also have sharecropping and gang chain. It wasn't a paradise or perhaps really sustainable even if it was more than just one town.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:23
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boo boo bear posted:tough times out there for deranged fallout guys. Cop out for legit complaints I enjoyed the TV show but cant complain? I just dont understand how criticism = "lol new vegas stans" without rebuttal when I enjoyed the TV show but worry about the lore
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Apr 13, 2024 00:29
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People love making a strawman and using it to dismiss criticism. Sitting with it for a day, still liked it. I expected it to be a disaster and not only was it pretty good but I'd be in for a season two. I have my complaints but overall, pleasantly surprised and happy.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:31
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I just feel like video game adaptations can never win from their fanbase. Either they're divorced from the lore and people hate it or they copy the lore and people are mad they just copied. I guess there's some middle ground with staying true to the lore and coming up with a unique story people will love, but that seems very hard to do.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:43
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Doltos posted:I just feel like video game adaptations can never win from their fanbase. Either they're divorced from the lore and people hate it or they copy the lore and people are mad they just copied. I guess there's some middle ground with staying true to the lore and coming up with a unique story people will love, but that seems very hard to do. I think it was the "its lore" by Todd which hurts the post-post apocalypse fans but I've accepted it at this point. If it was just a tv show adapation i wouldve been more 100 percent on board. edit: Goggin's character is so drat tragic. poor daughter Rabid Snake fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 00:46
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just watched ep 4. i actually love this show. it's a shame everybody is talking about games vs show or whatever, i'm not seeing many posts on the actual story and characters at all and they're really good! ep4 spoilers The vault exploration was so good, just like an episode of star trek where they find an abandoned ship in space, but a lot more violent. I'm really curious what the whole mystery is, they've got me hooked on this. The stuff with Glen and the pregnant lady was hilarious, too. The ONLY beat I'm not liking in the show so far is Zac Cherry's stuff but that's mostly just because I've seen enough of him the past few years, and him and the other guy are jokes which aren't making me laugh, unlike the rest of the jokes. I love the way the Ghoul is characterised - they have been really coy in making everything he does seem completely depraved to both the viewer and Lucy at first, but then the viewer gets a little more info and realises various things like - he didn't offer her any water earlier because it was irradiated, he didn't kill the dog in fact he saved it, his friend roger was turning and it was a mercy kill which he made the most out of. The only truly awful thing he's done is trade Lucy in, but then, he is literally at death's door so he was desperate. I'm not saying he's a good guy, I just like how they've put these tricky limits on how bad he is, planting the seeds for the revival of the man he used to be, which is now in progress via his interactions with Lucy. lucy: 'why do you live like this' ghoul: 'well one good question deserves another' I hope they get more into this question when Lucy and the Ghoul meet again, or just at some point. I also love the way they're portraying Lucy becoming hardened to the wasteland, but not throwing away her morality. I mean, she never will, the Ghoul will be wrong and she'll end up changing him just as her dad hoped they would in episode 1. The way this show is following its themes so consistently and being so playful with them is great. Although I'm not a big fan of the rude language Lucy used at the end of the episode. That kind of thing is fine for some folks, but. non-spoiler version: the writing is actually really good, on a character and plot level. also the music is great (not the olde timey songs, those are whatever, the actual score) I hope they have some depths to plumb for this as the season goes on in terms of exploring the theme. roomtone fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 00:56
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The score is very well done, I think the composer nailed making music that is new and different but still vibes like the Mark Morgan originals. I kept hearing bits of Fallout music in there, or something close enough to trigger it in my mind.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:09
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I really don't mind the NCR being gone. Some FO fans seem to be invested in them but the NCR has always been a super generic faction which was fine because that was its role in the games but there really isn't much to "miss" from a storytelling perspective. Factions like the BoS or even the Enclave at least have more going on, there are deeper themes / motivations within them but the NCR is literally nothing more than a pretty average faction/faux-country. Even its own lore is boringly "vanilla" and nothing about its culture/politics/structure is noteworthy in any way. So all the strong opinions about the NCR from fans is mostly down to what people project ONTO the NCR and maybe that was also it's main purpose in the games, it served as a generic faction you could project your own ideas/motivations onto. From a storytelling perspective it's really hard to do something with the NCR that isn't too generic or simply leads to a place where the post-apoc stops being the post-apoc and I know some fans would actually like that but I understand why you wouldn't want that as the basis for a new TV show.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:41
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Rabid Snake posted:Cop out for legit complaints Mostly it's because the lore complaints are overwhelmingly really bad. Actual lore differences like "ghouls now have Wolverine-style healing" are drowned out 10 to 1 by things like "Shady Sands is too close to LA, there should have been 3 episodes of walking each way. Never mind that even Fallout 1 and 2 couldn't agree on the actual Shady Sands location"
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Apr 13, 2024 01:41
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I tried to reinstall FO4 but it's just constant crash after crash after crash even with the major Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch + Script Extender and all that poo poo 
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Apr 13, 2024 01:42
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esquilax posted:Mostly it's because the lore complaints are overwhelmingly really bad. The ghoul stuff doesn't really bother me too much. Ghouls already feel pretty tough and rugged, so healing factor, sure. Thinking especially of ones like Raul in NV. Also I think it was established every sapient ghoul is worried they might one day go feral but if not, it makes sense. And needing drugs to stave it off is admittedly a bit weirder for me but I just can't muster up caring enough to call it bad.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:46
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Sab669 posted:I tried to reinstall FO4 but it's just constant crash after crash after crash even with the major Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch + Script Extender and all that poo poo I threw caution to the wind and used a wabbajack https://www.wabbajack.org/ modlist. Thing installs entirely on its own, everything pre-tuned, but with configuration still available via the mod configuration menu.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:48
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Entorwellian posted:Norm and the low strength/high intelligence build Gifted Small Frame
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Apr 13, 2024 01:48
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"rear end jerky don't make itself." This is my official new line to tell people at work when things get tough and you just gotta get through it.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:50
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Plotac 75 posted:Gifted 
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Apr 13, 2024 01:50
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Grand Fromage posted:The score is very well done, I think the composer nailed making music that is new and different but still vibes like the Mark Morgan originals. I kept hearing bits of Fallout music in there, or something close enough to trigger it in my mind. There was one time I hovered over the screen and had the Amazon X-ray tell me the music currently playing was the Fallout 4 main menu theme, which of course I'd heard many times.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:51
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LinkesAuge posted:I really don't mind the NCR being gone. Some FO fans seem to be invested in them but the NCR has always been a super generic faction which was fine because that was its role in the games but there really isn't much to "miss" from a storytelling perspective. Calling the bos or exclave interesting is also just projecting. The bos are generic human supremacists that believe only they can be trusted with power. The enclave just want to remake America (and are also human supremacists). NCR wise: it occurs to me that all the projecting is also based on new Vegas existing, which it clearly does not. since this show erases fallout: nv entirely, the last actual appearance of the NCR was when it was a single town in fallout 2
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Apr 13, 2024 01:51
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People like the NCR for the same reason people like the Imperial Guard from 40K. In a world of crazies, psychopaths and power armour, regular folks carving out a living and even thriving is nice to see. Watching that idealism turn into imperialism and expansionism in New Vegas is also compelling. How does a good idea led astray affect the people who follow it? You don't have to like the NCR but considering them generic does a disservice to how much they grow and change over 1,2 and FNV. They're more than a Veteran Ranger Helmet and a two headed bear flag. War never changes but people do. There will always be conflict as the great leveler but the players change, grow, or die out. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 01:56
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esquilax posted:Mostly it's because the lore complaints are overwhelmingly really bad. Tbh that bothered me too, but I burned out on fallout 4 around when you kill the guy who killed your spouse and I never touched 76, so I wasn't sure if they already retconned ghouls in some way. (ep 5) Similarly to whatever was going on with Thaddeus. Didn't know if he actually was becoming a ghoul or they just say that because that's all Max knows and maybe he actually got some FEV or something and is becoming a super mutant.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:10
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Based on the final scene and especially end credits We know about as much about the NCR’s fall as we do about whoever is “behind the wheel” I get not liking the mystery, but it’s an ongoing plot line, not definitive statement.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:13
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Dawgstar posted:The ghoul stuff doesn't really bother me too much. Ghouls already feel pretty tough and rugged, so healing factor, sure. Thinking especially of ones like Raul in NV. Also I think it was established every sapient ghoul is worried they might one day go feral but if not, it makes sense. And needing drugs to stave it off is admittedly a bit weirder for me but I just can't muster up caring enough to call it bad. Poops Mcgoots posted:Tbh that bothered me too, but I burned out on fallout 4 around when you kill the guy who killed your spouse and I never touched 76, so I wasn't sure if they already retconned ghouls in some way. (ep 5) Similarly to whatever was going on with Thaddeus. Didn't know if he actually was becoming a ghoul or they just say that because that's all Max knows and maybe he actually got some FEV or something and is becoming a super mutant. I think it ended up well, they ended up doing a lot of really interesting stuff with the ghouls. It just seemed like a big departure. Then again it does make them much more lore-accurate to 3, NV, and 4 than other life-forms are, in terms of their level of bullet sponginess
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Apr 13, 2024 02:18
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I just don't get what the point is in complaining about things like ghouls taking drugs to stave off becoming feral. The games apparently aren't specific about what makes a ghoul turn feral, but it seems like radiation might have a bit of hand in it. So the show expanded the lore and shows that ghouls take meds, possibly anti-rad meds like radaway or rad-x in order to prevent themselves from turning feral. I can't imagine being so angry that adding backstory to something ruins the show for me.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:27
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There's no cut and dry rules on Ghoulification. Some people become Ghouls due to radiation exposure. Other people just die. Other Ghouls become as they are through exposure to FEV, like Harold. Others still transform from consuming god knows whatever drug cocktails they got their hands on, like Hancock or Eddie Winter. Some Ghouls need to eat, other Ghouls like Glowing Ones survive off of radiation alone. Some get all of their skin flayed off by radioactive dust storms like the Marked Men but otherwise don't rot.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:32
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As much as some of the lore stuff is annoying, I felt a lot of the plot was pretty poor. A lot of what people are bringing up are not as big of a deal as the show basically just overwriting NV and sending the final signal that Bethesda has no interest in a new Story/RPG based Fallout game in the west coast. The actions Moldaver took didn't really make sense. We know the motivations and those are fine. However, I don't get why she didn't just take both Lucy and Hank to begin with. Like the wedding raid was fine (if it worked), but then in the fight it really seemed like Lucy's life was in danger when they really should be focused on capturing Hank and Lucy for the last part to work, getting the code to get the chip to work. And I don't think Michael Emerson had the code/employee ID. Seems like she was mostly just waiting around until everything came to her by a stroke of luck. I really don't even care that it's not explained why she is alive over 200 years later. Who the character is, a scientist, a raider leader, the flame mother, a witch - it's really not explained and doesn't fit with someone who apparently just wanted to give cold fusion to the west coast to help stop conflicts. The whole Brotherhood of Steel storyline was very cringe inducing and I generally wanted to just fast forward through those parts. The dialog was just really painful to listen to.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:41
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Cojawfee posted:I just don't get what the point is in complaining about things like ghouls taking drugs to stave off becoming feral. The games apparently aren't specific about what makes a ghoul turn feral, but it seems like radiation might have a bit of hand in it. So the show expanded the lore and shows that ghouls take meds, possibly anti-rad meds like radaway or rad-x in order to prevent themselves from turning feral. I can't imagine being so angry that adding backstory to something ruins the show for me. I think the whole drugs thing adds to lore instead of contradicting so I agree with you on that piece, that's part of the interesting stuff I was referring to - especially since the show did really well with it plot wise.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:41
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