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Miss Lonelyhearts posted:I decided way back when hotkeys were created to do: I was also a hon player doing this and I felt like my play improved once I swapped to more straightforward ones
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Apr 10, 2024 07:41
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Chucat posted:He's legitimately unplayable to me, a guy who played/spammed Tinker since dota 1. Speaking on behalf of the other 99% of players, tinker spammers can get in the bin.
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Apr 10, 2024 08:59
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tinker got to be an insane pubstomper for like 12 years, he can be dogshit for a bit.
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Apr 10, 2024 09:01
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i'm glad tinker sucks
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Apr 10, 2024 09:10
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Tinker owns, and I still get games where I’m twice the net worth of the enemy carry by the end.
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Apr 10, 2024 09:14
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Chucat posted:He's legitimately unplayable to me, a guy who played/spammed Tinker since dota 1. I would not complain one bit if Naga got the Iron Talon treatment
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Apr 10, 2024 12:12
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ItohRespectArmy posted:tinker got to be an insane pubstomper for like 12 years, he can be dogshit for a bit. If old techies needed to be remade into a lovely league of legends hero then tinker should join him in hell.
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Apr 10, 2024 22:10
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I was gonna try to do Tinker + Enigma to get that defense matrix CD reduction glory.
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Apr 10, 2024 23:46
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I'm sorry people were unable to kill the hero that died to silence and vision.Nfcknblvbl posted:Tinker owns, and I still get games where I’m twice the net worth of the enemy carry by the end. The main issue is that the nerfs just make him really aggravating to play. It's the type of stuff that just fucks with whatever dota has instead of muscle memory. Rockets not working a screen away, Laser being closer than auto attack range etc. Then it just ends up as old Tinker except instead of buying Boots of Travel to come online and start exerting map pressure you have to buy an Aether Lens to be where you were at laning/nuking wise a few months ago. Like if you're still invested in doing Blink/Hex whatever the gently caress you can (I think???), I just legitimately can't be bothered since I'd rather smash nails into my hand than lane as him. I'm just playing OD/Sniper (or Nyx if I'm feeling frisky) at this point now if I need to mid, and if I get the urge to be a global ganker I'm playing Nature's Prophet or Spectre. Chucat fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 09:31
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Right click zeus is that raw poo poo rn
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Apr 11, 2024 14:49
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Man, I just can't get the hang of offlane. When Mageslayer was busted I dominated with Wyvern or DK, but now that it's not broken I can't quite figure it out. I've been trying Axe, BB, and DK in unranked offlane trying to expand out of P4. I always get so far behind and have no impact. I think in unranked the P4 is always jacking up the wave and pushing, but I don't want to just blame the P4 and not learn. If i play ranked, I just get flamed and the safelane just starts running down mid because I'm not Collapse on Magnus every game. I want to stick with it, any tips?
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Apr 11, 2024 17:11
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I don't know how you're playing it but alot of times with my buddies who are struggling I'll see them be too passive with the position in the early laning, rather than utilizing the stats of the offlane hero to punish the 1 for every cs that he gets. If you can trade favorably with them you can blunt the edge of their farm and if they've got a 5 who isn't doing their best to ferry out regen it can snowball into taking a lead. Pushing into the tower stinks for the gold but you can also utilize that for lotus control to exacerbate the situation. You size up the kits of the classic offlane character and you'll find alot of the skills trade favorably (ie. Retaliate on centaur, quill spray, dragons blood)
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Apr 11, 2024 17:21
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Makes sense, I find that when I play aggressively I can't trust my P4 to be helpful, and he always takes last hits instead of denies and harrass, or when I go in for a kill he's not paying attention. That said, I can instead try to harrass instead of deny, so every attack is on a the enemy hero or a last hit. Maybe I try for denies too much and stop attacking while the creeps work down their HP. Probably I need to get more regen more often as well so I can stay in the lane, and not worry so much about items, since it's like that when I'm low on HP I'm not laning anyways.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:27
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Super-NintendoUser posted:Man, I just can't get the hang of offlane. When Mageslayer was busted I dominated with Wyvern or DK, but now that it's not broken I can't quite figure it out. Offlane is pretty matchup dependent, for example if you pick Tidehunter into Slark or Axe into Veno pos 5 you’re going to have a bad time. DP might be a good pick if you’re lower MMR since your 4 might not know the role or care to really play it, she can farm in just about any lane with carrion swarm and can force tempo a lot with her ult. 3’s a tempo position like 2 where you need to hit your item timings pretty fast so that you can force the other team to play around you. DK and BB both got nerfed pretty recently so they might struggle to have impact, and Axe is suffering a little from Vanguard being weak right now which hurts his laning.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:33
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Eldred posted:3’s a tempo position like 2 where you need to hit your item timings pretty fast so that you can force the other team to play around you. DK and BB both got nerfed pretty recently so they might struggle to have impact, and Axe is suffering a little from Vanguard being weak right now which hurts his laning. I do feel that BB and Axe early are terrible, Vanguard is always in their guides, and I feel that it's useless. Whenever I play against a BB or Axe they always stomp, (I typically play p4 so I don't lane against them), and they just eat our carry up. I'm trying to replicate that. I should watch some relays of games where our Carry is dumpstered and see how the offlanes do it. Probably I'll just start skipping Vanguard, get bracer, upgraded boots, right into either Blade Mail for Axe or Bloodstone for BB.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:40
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Super-NintendoUser posted:Man, I just can't get the hang of offlane. When Mageslayer was busted I dominated with Wyvern or DK, but now that it's not broken I can't quite figure it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOhCXcc3Mc8 Dr. Fraiser Chain fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 17:41
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Whoops!
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Apr 11, 2024 17:43
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Focus on last hitting better I think. You'll get your items faster and be able to force the carry out easier. Don't forget to pull the hard camp if the lanes gets pushed up too much. in unranked, you'll see a lot of terrible dual melee offlanes that dont have a chance. or p4s who think they can sneak some farm. gotta roll with it DK is good because he cant be forced out of lane easily. Underlord is a lane monster but falls off. DP is good if you need a ranged offlaner. Or just pick WK and farm radiance.
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Apr 11, 2024 18:04
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Idk if it's changed in recent patches, but with offlane vanguard you go for the ring of health asap so you can sustain. Finishing it is useful so you can start farming the camps/cutting the wave and that gets you the farm you need for more items and either forces the enemy carry out to find their own farm or forces a rotation onto you which opens up space. Also with bristle it's important to understand tower aggro. Don't right click the enemy at all if you're tower diving and make sure you have creeps under their tower as well and it won't attack you while you can spam quills and goo
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Apr 11, 2024 18:26
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I started skipping vanguard on axe and centaur and just go veil for about the same price. I get to where i need to be a lot faster
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Apr 11, 2024 19:38
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Centaur definitely just goes Veil first, since it gives him both the HP sustain (Helm of Iron Will serves a similar purpose to RoH in the Vanguard build) and more farming ability. Then you get Blink and any other utility items that seem helpful, then go back for Shiva's later.
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Apr 11, 2024 21:24
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I don't think there's a place for phys damage block in this current game of magic damage and burst. There's almost no situation anymore i'd rather have crimson guard over pipe
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Apr 11, 2024 21:50
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I can see still picking up a vanguard sometimes if you've got good kill potential under their tower with your pos 4 but I don't build it now almost ever
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Apr 11, 2024 23:18
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Vanguard has been the go-to item for so many offlaners I play that not going it first is genuinely hard to wrap my brain around, but I definitely want to try veil first next time I play Centaur
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Apr 12, 2024 01:06
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Yea I was just reading this thread like, "Man my idea of an Offlane is clearly very out of date"
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Apr 12, 2024 02:07
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Sab669 posted:Yea I was just reading this thread like, "Man my idea of an Offlane is clearly very out of date" Yeah, watching pro dota for years it's just vanguard, phase boots, and go ham, but when I play it's just 1000 times harder.
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Apr 12, 2024 02:22
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As Axe specifically I started buying vanguard again. I was buying veil to eventually get the Shivas but have noticed my tankiness is much better for the early game and speedier farming with it. I'm breaking it later to make other stuff unless it's one of the few games where the upgrade is okay.
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Apr 12, 2024 02:24
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For what it's worth I think vanguard specifically has been nerfed in recent patches because it's been such a go-to item for so long, especially when it was getting disassembled into bloodstone and stuff. I'd still buy it on Axe just because I know I'm going to be sprinting under towers and tanking waves as soon as I can.
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Apr 12, 2024 02:28
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veil first is already mostly out of date, because shiva's is mostly a lategame item again thanks to the nerf. Though Doom can still go for it more easily because of his free gold. 1-2 bracers into blademail and blink is the popular style on axe and centaur. you can also play offlane primal beast this way vanguard is mega dead
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Apr 12, 2024 20:51
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Early stats is so strong against these greedy boys
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Apr 12, 2024 21:28
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I don't understand double bracer. Same stats as a circlet and gauntlet of str, but it's 220 more gold for part of a regen point and like 6 damage. And you want that twice? Rather just save my 440 and sell my gauntlet and circlet when it's time
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Apr 12, 2024 21:28
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scott zoloft posted:I don't understand double bracer. Same stats as a circlet and gauntlet of str, but it's 220 more gold for part of a regen point and like 6 damage. And you want that twice? Rather just save my 440 and sell my gauntlet and circlet when it's time Slot economy, and at 25 minutes the bonuses double on a bracer
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Apr 12, 2024 21:32
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For two slots and 1010 gold you get 220 hp 48 mana 16 damage Half an armor 1.5 hp regen .2 mana regen Vs 950 helm 4 armor 4 hp regen Certainly would be nice to have both but when i'm trading as an offlaner with already more hp i'm looking at that passive hp regen and armor increasing my effective hp at low level like drat papi. Then in like 900 more gold it's a veil and also giving me similar stats. Like is the argument the bracers hit their full value at 25 mins and are then worth it? Am i incorrect in my early game stat priorities?
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Apr 12, 2024 22:12
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I think I've seen bsj make similar arguments. The recipe can be expensive and if you're winning you might not want to get it. Bracer has been nerfed a bit by cost recently too. The damage is usually enough to warrant it over the helm if you're trying to cs, especially if you're on a str hero. The raw hp buff can be more effective in the early game than the ehp from the armor and regen when you're dealing with burst damage, which you usually are. If you're losing and can't fill your slots, the 25min doubling can be very valuable.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:20
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Glory to Italia!
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I'm going to think about this more bc this is bugging me out
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Apr 13, 2024 01:43
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bracers much like gg branches are op. always have been always will be
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Apr 13, 2024 01:59
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ILL Machina posted:I think I've seen bsj make similar arguments. The recipe can be expensive and if you're winning you might not want to get it. Bracer has been nerfed a bit by cost recently too. The damage is usually enough to warrant it over the helm if you're trying to cs, especially if you're on a str hero. The raw hp buff can be more effective in the early game than the ehp from the armor and regen when you're dealing with burst damage, which you usually are. At 25 mins your probably going to have boots and 3, almost 4 other items. At this point a bracer is better than the ogre club of your in progress bkb.
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Apr 13, 2024 08:35
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I like bracers more on 4 position, especially if they're universal. For off yea I've found myself skipping vanguard for over a year for quick veil or a lotus orb if I'm against a bunch of targeted spells.
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Apr 13, 2024 20:10
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I've been going two wraith bands on my suck lion lately for the armor.
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Apr 14, 2024 16:02
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I've been going bracers on int/universal supports if I need to tank up against zeus or nyx or something
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Apr 15, 2024 00:26
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