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the history of capitalism spans 400 years and all kinds of insane poo poo. same w industrialization but 250 years and yet all kinds of different poo poo. i dont think it can be summarized all that succinctly. its not even the fifth or sixth time an entire creative industry got whacked by automation, witness the portrait painters and nonfiction life painters who got hosed by photography mostly they died in penury if old or did something different if young. coupla dutch peeps squeezed photography pretty good for doing painting, painters found other business models, and life went on a lotta creative poo poo was originally about wealth and power. mass consumption and the mass middle class let peeps have freedom for self expression, but now that wealth.and power concentrates plutocratically again its back to wealth and power stuff, basically. obviously you can't show wealth and power with ai art, its too cheap homer and shakespeare and da vinci made art for oligarchs and monarchs, it can still slap bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 23:31
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bob dobbs is dead posted:the history of capitalism spans 400 years and all kinds of insane poo poo. same w industrialization but 250 years and yet all kinds of different poo poo. i dont think it can be summarized all that succinctly. its not even the fifth or sixth time an entire creative industry got whacked by automation, witness the portrait painters and nonfiction life painters who got hosed by photography That's true but in that case it made a new job: photographer. Or how movies put theaters out of business but they still needed actors. Not to mention there are still painters and illustrators and graphic designers (albiet a lot less of them). What does GenAI transform those people into? Prompt engineers? So broad stokes sure its a really short summary and I'm not qualified to write it. But I really think if it ends up catching on and "fears" about models not being able to improve aren't founded... what exactly does anyone have to look forward to? What happens to our established narrative of "study hard in school so you can succeed in an engaging white collar career". Why do we need doctors or lawyers or architects or programmers when I can type stuff into a black box and get back "an" answer.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:39
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https://twitter.com/joannastern/status/1778469290988994741 this piece of poo poo *overheats*, outside, in the new york spring?
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Apr 12, 2024 23:43
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Maybe another way of putting it is automation has enabled "scaling out" creative endeavors (instead of every town having a theater with actors, now we have a movie theater that plays films), but this feels different: This is the creation of "art" out of This seems like a relevant thing to cross post from the cyberpunk thread: https://twitter.com/TheDeskDotNet/status/1778779222871613764
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Apr 12, 2024 23:43
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well, the educated rich world's counterplay is not having children. if theres 1/10 the market for artists and 1/10 the number of peeps, that balances out decently enough art is inevitable if you have peeps. coherent art markets and specialist artists, not really bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 23:43
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oh no
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Apr 12, 2024 23:46
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infernal machines posted:i hate that they're another overhyped gimmick being pushed by an industry that ran out of ideas twenty years ago, being foisted on us by credulous press and greedy managers this is pretty much my view. and the truly annoying thing is that they haven’t run out of tricks completely - it’s just most of the easy pickings have been had. most businesses suck rear end at their functions, led by idiots who create dumpster fires, but there is so much opportunity in just using modern data and apis that would save so much time, but by definition they can’t understand that. so many businesses could benefit hugely from moving from excel spreadsheets to actual applications but no one wants to pay for it, because it will be administered by aforementioned idiot execs, and to some extent their dumb rear end boomer lackeys who won’t learn anything new and scary. and the vanguard of Silicon Valley is meanwhile just trying to find a unicorn so they can get exponential returns, usually by loving over poorly paid workers. real progress is slow - but the aphorism one year out is not impressive, but 10 years out is unbelievable applies - but no one wants 10% returns on good IT and dev deployment. they want a 100x or a 1000x and so the cosmic ballet continues I don’t hate LLM stuff but I spent a lot of time earning hard won lessons about how things actually work - but that was all predicated on a solid foundation; determinism as others have said. I believe that may always be the way to real understanding. no shortcuts, as much as investors salivate over that prospect.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:47
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ADINSX posted:who likes to do tedious stuff? i’ve been trying to do more tedious stuff these days, because i feel it’s wrong to shove that off on poorer people.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:47
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Eeyo posted:i’ve been trying to do more tedious stuff these days, because i feel it’s wrong to shove that off on poorer people. The ironic thing is if we did live in some utopia where we all worked creative engaging jobs maybe 3-4 hours a day, I'd spend another 4 hours doing tedious stuff like mowing the lawn, sanding wood, washing the car because I really enjoy doing tedious stuff to unwind. But not as a job, gently caress that
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Apr 12, 2024 23:54
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i think most of the reasons i hate ai have been covered, but to add a little: above all, it just doesn't do a good job. but it also bothers me that this stuff is referred to as "ai" in the first place, and its use has become so common a buzzword that we are inevitably going to have to change the definition of "artificial intelligence" (if this has not already happened). while, yes, as computer users it's being shoved in our faces whether we want it or not, what's worse is that it's going to be shoved in our faces, whether we want it or not, especially offline. simply because it's cheaper, this will replace all sorts of advertisements wherever they can be jammed into view, any accompanying or most text blurbs in brochures and the like, logos, stock photos, etc. — they will become so commonplace that i would think kids will start imitating their writing style simply because the computer must know how to write and then there's the morons that will be/already are using this garbage in professional applications. we've had a couple of instances of this happening over the past week or so: one in this thread and two in cjs. it sucks and is bad
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Apr 13, 2024 00:00
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look, its ai if the grants are easy to get, machine learning if they're hard when we finish, the idea of intelligence will be in the trashbin of history, just like alchemy started off with the idea of the quintessence and the philosophers stone and the transmutation of base metals to gold and trashed that crap on the way to becoming actually-useful chemistry
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Apr 13, 2024 00:11
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bob dobbs is dead posted:look, its ai if the grants are easy to get, machine learning if they're hard so what's the equivalent endgame here, post-intelligence?
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Apr 13, 2024 00:19
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we'll get some new ideas. if we'd already had the new ideas, then we wouldn't have to go through all this crap, wouldn't we? we are randoes living next to the alchemy labs gettin poisoned by the mercury fumes and gettin pissed. we don't know about the dyes and medicine and atomic theory of matter yet, and, importantly, neither do the alchemists bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 00:20
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infernal machines posted:so what's the equivalent endgame here, post-intelligence? already exists!
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Apr 13, 2024 00:21
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finally, the end of history
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Apr 13, 2024 00:22
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infernal machines posted:so what's the equivalent endgame here, post-intelligence? I call it intelligence two
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Apr 13, 2024 00:22
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Beeftweeter posted:above all, it just doesn't do a good job. but it also bothers me that this stuff is referred to as "ai" in the first place, and its use has become so common a buzzword that we are inevitably going to have to change the definition of "artificial intelligence" (if this has not already happened). similar deal to how "algorithm" technically means "a precise step-by-step method" but is now used casually by almost everyone to mean "a recommendation system whose inner workings are unknowable" it's not just an inaccurate usage, it's a complete inversion of meaning
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Apr 13, 2024 01:00
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it's a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contronym
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Apr 13, 2024 01:02
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infernal machines posted:so what's the equivalent endgame here, post-intelligence? butlerian jihad
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Apr 13, 2024 01:03
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hobbesmaster posted:butlerian jihad even this had an alchemical antecedent, inasmuch as the chinese under the qing persecuted taoist alchemy because they blamed a material part of why the ming fell on the poisonous elixirs of immortality thing and got some confucian reactionaries together to get rid of the taoists and poo poo qin shihuang was the first emperor to die from dodgy elixirs, but there's literally like 30 emperors after him who also got taken by the taoists, lol bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 01:06
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Beeftweeter posted:i think most of the reasons i hate ai have been covered, but to add a little: all of this has happened before and all of it will happen again seriously, a lot of what is not very “simple” stuff was considered AI in the past
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Apr 13, 2024 01:07
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Beeftweeter posted:it's going to be shoved in our faces, whether we want it or not Quite possibly because a military or police drone asked it if we're a terrorist.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:28
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haveblue posted:sometimes I want to set up a completely automated AI money machine, that searches for remote-only text generation gigs on fiverr or whatever, uses LLMs to do all the work, and sends me all the money GDC talk on it https://youtu.be/E8Lhqri8tZk?si=6Xx-I64_rKli-144
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Apr 13, 2024 07:18
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ADINSX posted:GenAI is the first example something that could conceivably start automating "creative" stuff; the stuff we were all convincing ourselves there would be more time to do if we could just automate away all that drat tedium. thats not true. photography automated painting. all sorts of modern tools and processes have automated stuff like wood carving, pottery, sewing, embroidery, etc. we've automated stuff involved w/ getting the right pigments and dyes used for making basically anything colored, for cutting and coloring stained glass. nobody's carving the big stone lions in front of chinese architecture by hand anymore either. making musical instruments is highly automated compared to the past, u can literally model that stuff in a computer before its built. cnc machines, 3d printers, he'll even computers themselves allow you to draw stuff out on a screen without developing a lot of the fine motor control and muscle memory and stuff even if you do want to draw. you can reproduce all those drawings now, trivially. my handwriting is rear end compared to my grandparents but i can still write stuff. etc. the list goes on and on and on, with "creative" stuff being automated to various degrees back thousands of years
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Apr 13, 2024 10:10
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ADINSX posted:this feels different: This is the creation of "art" out of theres entire villages of people in china who sit there in little factories doing reproductions of famous paintings by hand, with oil paints. or you can give them a photograph or any other artwork and theyll make an oil painting out of it for you. you can even find stores selling nothing but knockoff oil paintings
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Apr 13, 2024 10:15
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fart simpson posted:theres entire villages of people in china who sit there in little factories doing reproductions of famous paintings by hand, with oil paints. or you can give them a photograph or any other artwork and theyll make an oil painting out of it for you. you can even find stores selling nothing but knockoff oil paintings wish an entire village in china could get you to knock off posting
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Apr 13, 2024 10:32
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well there’s not so deal with it
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Apr 13, 2024 10:36
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Star Trek is the same thing as anime.
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Apr 13, 2024 13:25
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fart simpson posted:well there’s not so deal with it so you're saying it's an untapped market?
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Apr 13, 2024 13:26
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Internet Old One posted:Star Trek is the same thing as anime. not all anime likers are pedophiles, but all pedophiles like anime?
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Apr 13, 2024 13:47
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go back to the sci fi thread
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Apr 13, 2024 14:58
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Internet Old One posted:Star Trek is the same thing as anime. That's just TAS and Lower Decks
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Apr 13, 2024 16:52
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dell laptop docks are pieces of poo poo btwBranch Nvidian posted:good point. it started as me trying to show that I had the knowledge and skills to get a job in the IT department and the end result is IT expects me to do their job for them in my workplace, while they hire less knowledgeable and less skilled people who get paid double what I’m earning to a lot of people computers are mysterious magic boxes so I can easily imagine how "shout at your computer to get it to do what you want" would be popular for a non technical woman or child, but you're gonna have to sandbox the poo poo out of it else people will be like "computer I need to remove all these files" and get their disk formatted
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Apr 13, 2024 17:06
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:laptop docks are pieces of poo poo Has there ever been one that wasn't
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Apr 13, 2024 17:07
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Sagebrush posted:Has there ever been one that wasn't I've got an hp one thats actually pretty decent. One usb c out, never had a single issue with it. i got given one by my old job and then actually bought one myself when I left and gave it back turns out they had zero inventory tracking so I could have just kept it. I did actually keep a webcam though because my wife said she thought I'd bought it myself.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:11
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fart simpson posted:theres entire villages of people in china who sit there in little factories doing reproductions of famous paintings by hand, with oil paints. or you can give them a photograph or any other artwork and theyll make an oil painting out of it for you. you can even find stores selling nothing but knockoff oil paintings they have this for all sorts of counterfeit stuff. you can find a lot of it on aliexpress or dhgate lol i've posted about this before but i genuinely enjoy getting counterfeit crap, especially electronics that function in the same way the far more expensive real deal does (e.g. wii remotes, other controllers, airpods, etc.), for me, it's fun to tear them down, compare their differences to the real thing to find out how they did it and also see how well it emulates the real deal e: although admittedly i haven't done this for a few years as disposable income has dwindled
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Apr 13, 2024 17:13
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:I can easily imagine how "shout at your computer to get it to do what you want" would be popular for a non technical woman or child, i know a considerable amount of adult men who also do this exact thing. though they also usually just start slamming on their keyboards at the same time
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Apr 13, 2024 17:27
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oh no blimp issue posted:not all anime likers are pedophiles, but all pedophiles like anime? Oh my god what? This is really the first place your mind went? I meant that they're both media that dares to ask if it's really a big deal when a guy wears a dress. Just kidding that was totally what I was getting at.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:32
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Sagebrush posted:Has there ever been one that wasn't  
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Apr 13, 2024 19:15
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why does that computer have fat rolls
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