(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
Strategic Tea posted:Russia has gone from the third great power of the world to an NK adjacent pariah state. It can't project power without shovelling in hundreds of thousands of half armed slaves that have to be conscripted from its workforce. I don't think this is an accurate summary of events. You say Russia gave up on having a "real" economy, do you mean, like, FIRE stuff? Because Russia has always been a petro state. And their economy has grown during the full-scale invasion, due in large part as I understand it to government investment. Russia is doing more trade than ever with China. If a country is doing full and free trade with the largest country in the world, I think that kinda by default rules out them having become a pariah state. Russian victory would get them not only the territory but a ton of experience fighting modern western weapons and tactics, and keep Ukraine out of NATO. And if we're going to talk about which side in this war is sending out conscripts "half armed", well,
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Apr 14, 2024 18:15
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Gripweed posted:I don't think this is an accurate summary of events. You say Russia gave up on having a "real" economy, do you mean, like, FIRE stuff? Because Russia has always been a petro state. And their economy has grown during the full-scale invasion, due in large part as I understand it to government investment. Why do people seem to think this is about NATO still?
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Apr 14, 2024 18:19
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The_Franz posted:You people are arguing with someone who managed to get a 12 year probation, just to come back and resume shitposting the second it expired. That's a loving power move if I ever saw one. That's how I wanna come back If I ever get locked up for a decade, just spring back swinging goddamn
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Apr 14, 2024 18:22
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Avirosb posted:Why do people seem to think this is about NATO still? Do you think it's not even the littlest bit about NATO? I mean, Euromaidan and the breakaway regions to begin with started with disagreements in Ukraine about whether the country would align itself more with Europe or with Russia. And NATO has been openly supplying one side of the war from the beginning. NATO is not uninvolved.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:22
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Gripweed posted:Do you think it's not even the littlest bit about NATO? I mean, Euromaidan and the breakaway regions to begin with started with disagreements in Ukraine about whether the country would align itself more with Europe or with Russia. And NATO has been openly supplying one side of the war from the beginning. NATO is not uninvolved. Euromaidan started when the very pro-Russian leader wanted to deny the Ukrainian people a choice.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:27
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I'm sorry, don't you mean... NATOmaidan?!
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Apr 14, 2024 18:29
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Gripweed posted:I don't think this is an accurate summary of events. You say Russia gave up on having a "real" economy, do you mean, like, FIRE stuff? Because Russia has always been a petro state. And their economy has grown during the full-scale invasion, due in large part as I understand it to government investment. Please provide evidence for this. Russia has stopped providing figures such as GDP since Decemeber 2022. It also stopped reporting debt to GDP at the same time. The stock market is well below Feb 2022 along with international stock trading banned and it's currency is junk in Dollars, Euros, Rupee, Sterling and Yuan. Interest rate sits at 16% with an offical inflation rate of 7.7% (and increasing) but is in reality higher. Reports show food stuff such as eggs and tomatoes are 200-300% higher in regions. The last time Russia reported on imports and exports, Feb 2024, it was some of the lowest it has ever been. Month on month producer prices have been increasing quite consistantly for awhile now at around 20%. Let's talk debt. Russia is trying to do Keynesian economics on the back of a 16% interest rate. Private sector debt has blown through the roof and Jan and Feb saw the highest ever small business bankruptcy. Russia is issuing consumer credit by the boat load. Remember that 16% interest rate? There is a reason why the Russian rouble is in the dirt. Booming economies don't see the value of their currency collapse 30%. And you know what? It is still slowly devauling. Not even their BRISC buddies will help them out. All they had to do was trade in Roubles to stop it's currency collapse but didn't. Great allies. Also, Russia, a major Petrostate state has banned exports of gasoline. Lol and loving lmao Gripweed posted:Russia is doing more trade than ever with China. If a country is doing full and free trade with the largest country in the world, I think that kinda by default rules out them having become a pariah state. This is utter nonense. China and India have both distanced themselves from Russia in recent months with both buying less oil which is reflected in it's economic data of Feb 2024. Chinese banks are openly auditing this year to make sure it is not involved in this war. Gripweed posted:Russian victory would get them not only the territory but a ton of experience fighting modern western weapons and tactics, and keep Ukraine out of NATO. Experience with what? Javelins and some tanks and APC's? Wooo. NATO isn't an armoured force. It is an air power one. I don't know why people keep talking about this. Air power, you know stealth fighters, advanced drones and gently caress loads of missiles. As Ukraine has shown with it's slow lovely home made drones, Russian AA isn't anything to write home about. Tai fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Apr 14, 2024 |
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Apr 14, 2024 18:44
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Gripweed posted:I don't think this is an accurate summary of events. You say Russia gave up on having a "real" economy, do you mean, like, FIRE stuff? Because Russia has always been a petro state. And their economy has grown during the full-scale invasion, due in large part as I understand it to government investment. I don't think it's fair to imply a petrostate economy where the people are disposable cattle is cool and good if you're a despot so you did it on purpose. They aren't getting crucial experience against western weapons and tactics because Ukraine has been forced to fight with outdated table scraps, which don't give rise to comparable tactics. If a military superpower invades a struggling ex-colony and both are reduced to underarmed conscripts then yes I think that reflects worse on one than on the other.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:45
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Yeah this is the American posters thread.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:51
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Nah this is the euro thread. Maybe D&D is US heavy?
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Apr 14, 2024 18:55
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The_Franz posted:You people are arguing with someone who managed to get a 12 year probation, just to come back and resume shitposting the second it expired. This cannot be stressed enough.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:58
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the takes are fast and furious today did a payment go out?
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Apr 14, 2024 18:58
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This is the American posers thread. Guns yo. Abortions U S A USA
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Apr 14, 2024 18:58
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Mr Teatime posted:Yeah this is the American posters thread. You are all a bunch of dirty americants filled with bloodlust. Cant you stop forcing Ukraine to fight their brothers. Just sickening. Also, to be clear, putin is a piece of poo poo.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:00
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I'll have you know that Su-57's are flying off the shelves as we speak. FLYING.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:02
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Putinflation's Rosy Ruble Land
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Apr 14, 2024 19:03
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Avirosb posted:Euromaidan started when the very pro-Russian leader wanted to deny the Ukrainian people a choice. A choice about what? Tai posted:Experience with what? Javelins and some tanks and APC's? Wooo. NATO isn't an armoured force. It is an air power one. I don't know why people keep talking about this. Air power, you know stealth fighters, advanced drones and gently caress loads of missiles. As Ukraine has shown with it's slow lovely home made drones, Russian AA isn't anything to write home about. NATO is an air power force because they prefer to go to war with countries that can't counter air power. If NATO goes to war with a country that can shoot down NATO planes, they are going to need javelins and some tanks and APCs.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:08
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Tai posted:Experience with what? Javelins and some tanks and APC's? Wooo. NATO isn't an armoured force. It is an air power one. I don't know why people keep talking about this. Air power, you know stealth fighters, advanced drones and gently caress loads of missiles. As Ukraine has shown with it's slow lovely home made drones, Russian AA isn't anything to write home about. This right here. Look at the opening weeks of Gulf War I & II, or any sort of involvement in a shooting war Nato/US had in the past 20+ years. They usually start like this... Opening barrage of Cruise Missiles to disrupt Command, Communications, and Air defense Another barrage of Cruise Missiles to mop up anything above that didn't get destroyed. Another barrage of Cruise Missiles to take out Airfields and their Aircraft. A follow-up barrage of Cruise Missiles to take out anything above that was spared. A barrage to take out transportation infrastructure. Another to take out troop/vehicle concentrations. And this is usually happening for hours, days, or even weeks before they send in stealth or non-stealth aircraft. Now that they have operational F-22s and F-35s, these actions can be happening in conjunction with the above missile attacks, on a much larger scale than they could previously do with the F-117 and B2. If there was some scenario where NATO put boot on the ground, you're going to see any piece of Russian equipment larger than an Chinese Golf Cart, HAM radio, or mortar tube eating a cruise missile or a JDAM before anyone even thinks of firing up an Abrams engine. NATO and Russia fight in very different ways, which is why you will never see Russia doing something that would actually require NATO to respond to them directly. Russia knows they can dunk on certain nations, and they know fighting NATO directly is impossible. Which is why Putin has been using the internet and bribes to gradually chip away at the GOP and its supporters.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:09
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Proving yet again going through some boot camp doesn't make you an analyst or military expert.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:09
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But as we pointed out, Russia clearly can't shoot down Nato planes. Only their own.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:09
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Gripweed posted:A choice about what? LOL Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Hello Iraq? Probably one of the most defended places with AA on earth in 2004. For gently caress sake come on.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:10
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"Shock 'n Awe" Now, watch this drive.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:11
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Gripweed posted:A choice about what? A choice about autonomy and not just being another Belarus. Sweden and Finland both joined NATO as a direct result of Putin's warcrimes.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:12
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Blistex posted:This right here. Look at the opening weeks of Gulf War I & II, or any sort of involvement in a shooting war Nato/US had in the past 20+ years. They usually start like this... OK but what if the country you're fighting can fight back during those opening barrages? Like, that plan only works if your opponent doesn't have the ability to actually fight back during the hours, days, or even weeks that the US is softening them up Tai posted:LOL Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Hello Iraq? Probably one of the most defended places with AA on earth in 2004. as blistex said, AA defenses are of limited value if the enemy can blow them up first
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Apr 14, 2024 19:16
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Gripweed posted:as blistex said, AA defenses are of limited value if the enemy can blow them up first Shame russia has the exact same AA systems iraq had, meaning they're useless against a non garbage air power and 5th gen that is not just marketed as such.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:18
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Gripweed posted:as blistex said, AA defenses are of limited value if the enemy can blow them up first What loving kind of take is this?? NATO should not blow up AA with the missiles designed to evade and blow AA to give them a chance? What next, don't blow up the incoming tanks until they get off a few shots first? The whol point of a war/battle is to blow their poo poo up before they blow you up. What is happening.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:20
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Tai posted:What loving kind of take is this?? NATO should not blow up AA with the missiles designed to evade and blow AA to give them a chance? What next, don't blow up the incoming tanks until they get off a few shots first? The whol point of a war/battle is to blow their poo poo up before they blow you up. Turn-based ruleset.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:23
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haddedam posted:Shame russia has the exact same AA systems iraq had, meaning they're useless against a non garbage air power and 5th gen that is not just marketed as such. Tai posted:What loving kind of take is this?? NATO should not blow up AA with the missiles designed to evade and blow AA to give them a chance? What next, don't blow up the incoming tanks until they get off a few shots first? The whol point of a war/battle is to blow their poo poo up before they blow you up. OK but what if the country responds to the first barrage of cruise missiles by striking back at NATO bases? Like, the NATO forces send a barrage of cruise missiles at AA sites in the bad guy country, but then the bad guy country responds by sending a barrage of cruise missiles at NATO airbases? This is what I mean, the western/NATO playbook relies on a massive discrepancy in military power. But if the country can actually fight back, that changes things.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:26
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Gripweed posted:OK but what if the country responds to the first barrage of cruise missiles by striking back at NATO bases? Like, the NATO forces send a barrage of cruise missiles at AA sites in the bad guy country, but then the bad guy country responds by sending a barrage of cruise missiles at NATO airbases? I'm getting trolled now.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:29
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The_Franz posted:You people are arguing with someone who managed to get a 12 year probation, just to come back and resume shitposting the second it expired. No worries, iv'e had him on ignore for the last couple of pages anyways. 
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Apr 14, 2024 19:30
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It's entirely possible Ukraine may well be hosed, but since Putin has openly said he has no intention of accepting peace terms as long as Russia can make military progress, "just walk away" isn't really an option.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:30
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Gripweed posted:This is what I mean, the western/NATO playbook relies on a massive discrepancy in military power. But if the country can actually fight back, that changes things. NATO isn't fighting Russia. Ukraine is. Russia almost lost to itself not too long ago, to a hotdog guy.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:34
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NATO wins by being a stronger force which is unfair
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Apr 14, 2024 19:35
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Gripweed posted:OK but what if the country responds to the first barrage of cruise missiles by striking back at NATO bases? Like, the NATO forces send a barrage of cruise missiles at AA sites in the bad guy country, but then the bad guy country responds by sending a barrage of cruise missiles at NATO airbases? Have you seen what old Patriot batteries are capable of? NATO is going to bring the new poo poo in much greater numbers along with Iris and whatever else they have. Not saying it's going to be an absolute 100% dunk, but the disparity between NATO and Russia's precision guided missiles, ballistic artillery, and air defenses is massive. Whatever Russia is going to try and strike back with isn't going to last long. Edit: this is a scenario where NATO hops in right now as opposed to day one of the invasion.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:40
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NATO rolls for initiative! 1
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Apr 14, 2024 19:46
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Tai posted:What loving kind of take is this?? NATO should not blow up AA with the missiles designed to evade and blow AA to give them a chance? What next, don't blow up the incoming tanks until they get off a few shots first? The whol point of a war/battle is to blow their poo poo up before they blow you up. 2 words; Dahir Insaat. That's what's happening. industry disruption.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:52
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numptyboy posted:2 words; Dahir Insaat. That's what's happening. industry disruption. 2 sick dudes on motorcycles exiting a shipping container as we speak
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Apr 14, 2024 19:58
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I get that a lot of people have been saying russia hasn't been using their best stuff, and that if they did they'd steamroll those other guys, which is the exact same words people are saying about nato. The difference is that fact doesn't back this up. Russia has very little of its best stuff, and that of its best stuff that it is sending is getting its poo poo kicked in by the old poo poo that nato has been trickle feeding to ukraine (with the exception of ballistic missiles).
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Apr 14, 2024 20:27
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What russia is loving stellar at though is counterintelligence, which is why they have great success in the us clown house, and other places of easily blackmailable degeneracy.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:29
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You're a big guy!
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Apr 14, 2024 20:29
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